Tales of You (Endgame)

[Yulia Jue]

Votecount 1-4

With 17 players alive, it will take 9 votes to lynch or nolynch.

CupcakePanda (2): The Fox and the Hound, Lord Business
Clyton (1): Just Sheep Us
MastinSSK (1): Mac
PeregrineV (1): Red Gyarados

MastinSSK (3): Titan, Elementalhawk, CupcakePanda

Carbon Fiber (2): MastinSSK, Rancid Broderick Drake
Breakfast With Stalin (1): orcinus_theoriginal
Yukari Yamoto (1): Breakfast With Stalin

With 17 players alive, deadline is set for 18 days: (expired on 2014-04-18 00:01:39)

[CupcakePanda]

HAS LORD BUSINESS LEFT THE GAME?!?!?!1?

[Breakfast With Sandy]

I have been doing that even while I haven't developed a townread on you, for instance asking what you thought of Mac.

I am curious though what did you find notable in NY169 in particular that would make it a priority for me? I'd probably want to compare notes even without considering NY169.

~ F-16

I think I just figured out what's bugging me. There's a lack of depth in your play so far.

[CarbonFiber]

I haven't seen anything from you that's obviously town but you said that you are time constrained for a week so I am willing to wait to sort you once I've seen you at full throttle. I can also misread your early play if I try to sort you too early as shown when I was spectating on the second Tales game but I don't think I'll read you incorrectly if I wait to see more content before reading you. You were easy to sort in NY169 for your early attack on Nacho. I had some residual paranoia because I so strongly disagreed with you about Pieguyn but that went away later as well.

Is there anyone else you think I should be reading strongly as town? Or anyone who I shouldn't be?

~ F-16

[fferyllt]

I haven't seen anything from you that's obviously town but you said that you are time constrained for a week so I am willing to wait to sort you once I've seen you at full throttle. I can also misread your early play if I try to sort you too early as shown when I was spectating on the second Tales game but I don't think I'll read you incorrectly if I wait to see more content before reading you. You were easy to sort in NY169 for your early attack on Nacho. I had some residual paranoia because I so strongly disagreed with you about Pieguyn but that went away later as well.

Is there anyone else you think I should be reading strongly as town? Or anyone who I shouldn't be?

~ F-16

I'm more interested in the process than in the results at the moment.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

I haven't seen anything from you that's obviously town but you said that you are time constrained for a week so I am willing to wait to sort you once I've seen you at full throttle. I can also misread your early play if I try to sort you too early as shown when I was spectating on the second Tales game but I don't think I'll read you incorrectly if I wait to see more content before reading you. You were easy to sort in NY169 for your early attack on Nacho. I had some residual paranoia because I so strongly disagreed with you about Pieguyn but that went away later as well.

Is there anyone else you think I should be reading strongly as town? Or anyone who I shouldn't be?

~ F-16

I'm more interested in the process than in the results at the moment.

holy crap that's three in a day.

[CarbonFiber]

What specifically struck you as lacking depth?

~ F-16

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Also, I'm probably not going to do a lot to sort Nacho this game, since I'm better at reading bork.

There are other players whose reads of me you should be a little concerned about, I think. Nati should go without saying, but orcinus also has a fair bit of experience playing with me.

orcinus' modus in the early game is to vote players he wants to talk to. He dropped his vote and disappeared in this game. What do you make of that?

[Breakfast With Sandy]

What specifically struck you as lacking depth?

~ F-16

follow-up. For instance your question about Mac. You usually follow-up and probe for more info when you get a short answer to a question.

[CarbonFiber]

I haven't seen anything from you that's obviously town but you said that you are time constrained for a week so I am willing to wait to sort you once I've seen you at full throttle. I can also misread your early play if I try to sort you too early as shown when I was spectating on the second Tales game but I don't think I'll read you incorrectly if I wait to see more content before reading you. You were easy to sort in NY169 for your early attack on Nacho. I had some residual paranoia because I so strongly disagreed with you about Pieguyn but that went away later as well.

Is there anyone else you think I should be reading strongly as town? Or anyone who I shouldn't be?

~ F-16

I'm more interested in the process than in the results at the moment.

The process of how I read you as opposed to whether I read you as town or scum? My priorities are different. I care about being right more than meeting expectations of how you would expect me to sort you. I'll be as transparent as I can to help you mutually sort me but I am not going to try and emulate previous games.

~ F-16

[Breakfast With Sandy]

I haven't seen anything from you that's obviously town but you said that you are time constrained for a week so I am willing to wait to sort you once I've seen you at full throttle. I can also misread your early play if I try to sort you too early as shown when I was spectating on the second Tales game but I don't think I'll read you incorrectly if I wait to see more content before reading you. You were easy to sort in NY169 for your early attack on Nacho. I had some residual paranoia because I so strongly disagreed with you about Pieguyn but that went away later as well.

Is there anyone else you think I should be reading strongly as town? Or anyone who I shouldn't be?

~ F-16

I'm more interested in the process than in the results at the moment.

The process of how I read you as opposed to whether I read you as town or scum? My priorities are different. I care about being right more than meeting expectations of how you would expect me to sort you. I'll be as transparent as I can to help you mutually sort me but I am not going to try and emulate previous games.

~ F-16

Your process of getting reads in general, not just a read of me. How players form their reads is more alignment-revealing than the reads themselves usually.

[CarbonFiber]

What specifically struck you as lacking depth?

~ F-16

follow-up. For instance your question about Mac. You usually follow-up and probe for more info when you get a short answer to a question.

Most of the time I probed for info in NY169, your general reaction was annoyance and reluctance and providing info. I remember you made a reads list and I asked you for explanations of every read on your list (even reads like Tammy who was obviously town). Upon re-reading the game and learning what worked and what didn't, I didn't feel like probing for info on every read is going to be a productive use of our time. I am confident in my read on Mac and you have in your townpile as well. That's enough for me for now. I'll probe for info on more contentious reads.
~ F-16

[CarbonFiber]

Your process of getting reads in general, not just a read of me. How players form their reads is more alignment-revealing than the reads themselves usually.

I agree. I think I've been fairly transparent about my reasoning for my reads. Are there reads you want me to explain?
~ F-16

[Breakfast With Sandy]

What new things has your tenth reread of the thread unearthed?

[CarbonFiber]

It revealed to me that Mac was town. I stopped at page 5 and Mac's ISO before I stopped for a while. I've since then been interacting with you.

~ F-16

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Have you played with Mac before? What specifically gave you a town read?

[Breakfast With Sandy]

something about the chronology is bugging me. I'll go back over it in the morning.

[CarbonFiber]

I'm still concerned about notscience. Even sober, I still can't figure out what's town about post 20. I'm assuming it was post 20 that made him think that. I'll look more into his meta when I have a chance. I've only ever seen him as scum so far, and his play is consistent with his scum meta for the most part. He also never answered my question about what made him think it was town. I feel like it's little things like that which suggest it was contrived.

Orci's 378 is town, although not enough content there for a solid read.

-FT

[CarbonFiber]

With Mac, I thought his meta on me was pretty fvcking town (what's the scum motivation for pointing out a major difference between my play as scum and my play here?).

-FT

[CarbonFiber]

This is my first game with Mac. I liked his Post 64 in response to zMuffin saying that he didn't like FT's post. He then follows up on it 20 minutes later with a quick meta-dive of a game where FT was scum. I read that game myself and noted FT's approach and saw that he was unreasonably aggressive with Rach which felt contrived to me. I've played 30+ games with FT offsite and we can read each other well. We both make it our top priority to sort each other out as soon as we enter the game. One of the things I use to read FT is to see how contrived his opening sounds. Mac picked up on

exactly

the sort of thing that would feel off to me from scum-FT so his meta was dead-on. Mac also mentioned that FT asks a lot of questions as town which is also very true.

I also think the fact that he chose to pro-actively meta FT is a minor towntell although that is a much weaker reason than the fact that his meta was surprisingly accurate.

I wanted to see if he routinely fakes meta-dives as scum just to be certain and his approach to your Fuzzylogic meta-dive in Tales of the Abyss was vastly different. He initially jumped onto Fuzzy, thanked you for providing the meta and left the thread. That makes me think he isn't as engaged as scum as he was here. Also, when scum fake meta-dives, they usually do it with pre-formed conclusion and it is rare that a player can nail down accurate points to fit with their conclusions.

~ F-16

[CarbonFiber]

something about the chronology is bugging me. I'll go back over it in the morning.

I made my analysis post at around 3:15 while five pages in and stopped so I could study but I kept this page open to see if any new comments pop up before I started interacting with you.

I like that you picked up on this though. I have a probably unusual habit of keeping mafiascum.net open in a different tab while I work and checking in from time to time for new posts while re-reading the game using different tabs and that would be a very specific thing to point out.

~ F-16

[CarbonFiber]

I'm thinking Clyton is town, too.

-FT

[Kagura]

That post
it blows
four lines
make this flow

I had the opposite reaction, but even if you didn't, I don't understand what's scummy about it.

I like #435 - the points brought up there are specific and demonstrable, and while he asks ffery for confirmation, is not the same as just asking ffery for her opinion and piggybacking off of it.
Like unless they're scumbuddies and he had that angle picked out ahead of time I just don't see scum even thinking to analyze Mac's previous behavior toward meta-diving.

#446 is probably even better of a post.

-b

[Titan]

Sorry falcon, it's been a really long day and I'm crashing. I will get back to this tomorrow. I did briefly skim stuff though and loved being rick rolled. It made me laugh, and everyone knows what that means (also, I think sotty helped out z-mafia quite a bit by keeping nacho and me alive, and you for the vanilla investigation! But damn was pyp one of our finer moments!)

Anyway, I have some thoughts but they will have to wait until tomorrow.

[The Fox and the Hound]

This page is actually kind of beautiful. I don't even want to sully it with my presence. ffery gets a town lean and CF looks good too. The mutual pressuring seems right to me.