NY 172: Another Large Normal (GAME OVER)

[penguin_alien]

@PA: Read on Snork and Snowstorm?

I'm voting SnowStorm. Just skimmed his recent posts, but something feels weird there too. I'll look again after dinner.

Snork was awfully enthusiastic about going after Rach, but his vehemence and anger look hard to fake. Also don't think he and SnowStorm would move together like that at the end of Day One if they're both scum. Tend to think SnowStorm was egging on Snork.

Scum read on SnowStorm, slight town read on Snork. Although I found it interesting that Snork said he'd read games of mine. I'm not that interesting a figure around here, and I'd be shocked if he read games for everyone on a player list of this size. Not sure what to make of that. Navel-gazing/wild conspiracy theories feel like maybe he's scum with people who do know me and I came up overnight in the scum QT for some reason. So now he's trying to explain his insight into me?

[Snork]

Or people were bringing up this game Street Racers and I found out you were a hydra in it.

[RachMarie]

Meh i think Snork is town, PA. Keep in mind there are some who get to this site and read up everything and are super enthusiastic.

I did not appreciate the who like a woman comment since I am a woman, Snork. Though I know AP was stirring the pot a bit. I am not a shitty player, I am not the greatest player on the site, but I am not a shitty player. It does take me a while to peg people, especially in a game this size. Especially with massive headaches n so on. I tend to use PoE a lot unless someone really stands out and screams scum to me. That means I am better at town reading than scum reading much of the time. BTW my town reads are not flaky, I feel pretty good about most of them.

[Nero Cain]

damn right I don't have flakes thanks to my new shampoo.

[RachMarie]

Luca Blight

[11 votes] (projectmatt, Damon_Gant, DeasVail, RachMarie, Yates,

talah

, ThAdmiral, SnowStorm, Nero Cain, penguin_alien, aptil) [LYNCH]

talah

[7 votes] (AngryPidgeon, PeregrineV, Luca Blight, Snork,

Zdenek

, 4nxi3ty, BipolarChemist)

Yates [1 vote] (pisskop)

Damon_Gant [1 vote] (mastin2)

Luca VT
Zed VT
Talah VT (claimed to be shot by a 1 shot vig)

This fits, Aptil probably is truly claiming. A 1 shot vig makes a lot of sense in a game this size. Tells us that it is most likely a single mafia team, since if there had been 2 people NKing one of the NKs it would have been indicated by the mod, so this is not multiball. No way would a SK or 2nd Mafia team not bothered to NK someone in multiball since they have to defeat both town and the other scum to win.

One on and one off the wagon. I feel most likely there was at least one scum on both wagons since both were townies.

However I do not think ALL of the scum were just on the two wagons. So who was on neither wagon? Let's start there because it is a smaller list to work with.

Pisskop and Mastin.

Of these two, I have a town read on Mastin. Need to look at Pisskop and replacement more carefully.

Now back to the wagons.

[Nero Cain]

mods don't tell you if a player was double killed. The 1-shot kill could easily be a SK. I've also seen mafia with an extra one shot kill so meh. Basicly I'm of the wait and see on Aptil.

[RachMarie]

I guess it depends on the mod Nero. I usually see in multiball two different kinds of death like shooting and stabbing or something of that nature.

[ThAdmiral]

Uhhhhhhhh. RM had a scumread on Luca in a newbie game. She thought he was playing the same here? She votes him?

I mean as far as reasons to vote someone go, thats weak, but I dont see how its as egregious as you are making it out to be.

He had no cop clear here so I was able to go with my gut it is that simple.

I'm actually with snork here. If luca was playing the same way and was ostensibly town in the other game doesn't it stand to reason that luca would be town in this one as well?

Put yourself in rach's shoes for a second.
You think player X is scummy in one game because of how he plays. A cop claims and says player X is town. "Oh I guess I was wrong about player X" you think.
You are now in a different game with player X. Player X is playing

the same way

as they did in that other game.

Do you:

a) think they are scum and vote them, even though you were wrong about them last time?
or
b) remember that you were wrong about them in that other game and think they could likely be town in this game as well?

But you know what: if you don't agree with this point, fine (even though it makes perfect logical sense). Just look at Rach's iso instead and still tell me that she's town.

You mentioned it twice. What relevance does my join date have here? You have no idea what my experience with mafia is, and it is irrelevant to the point being made.

Bringing it up only serves one purpose: to distract from the inquiry at hand

This is also true.

also wondering if snowstorm is currently bussing thad.

Wait what? Since when have you had me as scum? Last I remember was 456 in which you said:

guts undecided on thad.

In fact I thought you recently implied I was town with:

post 1733-1734 by mastin feel like trying to paint me, damon, and thad badly for the incoming mislynches. Although it could be town suspicious of the wagons. We'll see how mastin plays today.

ya ever since I've been the default push for him I've been like: maybe? and now that he give up on me for a Rach lynch I'm like O_O

So wait: you felt better about me when I was

pushing for your lynch

, rather than when I started pushing for someone else's?

matt, damon

lol

lol
This game feels so serious but that really made me laugh for some reason. so silly.

[RachMarie]

Um Thad I moved on, but you bring it back up, the other game JUST ended and he turned out to be SCUM in that game not town. JS

Pure and simple I thought Luca was scum and that Talah was town, I was half right.

Meanwhile who else are you looking at besides me? Who will you look at when I flip town, and I will.

[penguin_alien]

If I was so happy with Luca's and talah's lynches why would I vote ThAd?

That's my question. I know why I was hoping for an aptil lynch over either Luca or talah. I don't see your motivation to move away from Luca and talah if you thought there was scum between them.

And why does that make [4nxi3ty and ThAd] town in your eyes? I mean, it's not like they went after harder targets - Aptil is what I'd consider a perfect easy target. So while I'd understand your point if they were going after harder targets with good reason, I don't understand why you think there's town motivation in going after equally easy targets with not very good reasons.

aptil pinged scummy to me from the start of my readthrough. I'm less concerned with the purported ease of target than the ease of wagon. And the validity of said wagon. Luca and talah both looked quite town to me in my catch-up reading.

vote: SnowStorm

fairly certain snow is attempting to tie himself to me by presenting an intentional wishywashy read: [...]

Why would I want to tie myself with you? What do you even mean with that? Why would I use "wishy-washy" reads to achieve that? And if you were so certain that I was attempting to tie myself to you, why didn't you wait for me do fulfill that attempt so that you'd have something more than just speculation to vote me for?

RAWRs cans I interject this rach detour?

ThAd lynch would be good too, imo.

Let's do it.

Vote: ThAdmiral.

probably

totally bussing. (how do I feign excitement about wagoning a buddy? "Let's Do It")

Like, seriously?

ya ever since I've been the default push for him I've been like: maybe? and now that he give up on me for a Rach lynch I'm like O_O

I'm not entirely sure on ThAd, but I think it makes sense with snow's play -

I'm sure snow is scum tho

, just look at the way he comments on talah and luca.

Are you?... Because I'm supposedly "attempting to tie myself to you with wishy-washy reads" and "bussing ThAd"? And on this same post you point out you're actually unsure about ThAd, which means you're accusing me of "totally bussing" someone you don't even think is scum?

This whole thought process feels weird to me. First, the tying oneself to another player: presumably 4nxi3ty is coming from a mindset of knowing he's town, so you trying to link yourself to him is you trying to link yourself to a townie. Why do that if a) you aren't sure of the linkee's alignment, and b) there isn't an advantage in doing so. Here, you-scum and him-town means that if you successfully link the two of you, your alignments would be considered as identical, an advantage for your team regardless of who dies first.

And your second part, you're complaining because he thinks your play toward ThAd is indicative of bussing but he's voting you? If he thinks you're both scum, why is voting you first anti-town? If one has a strong read and a weak read, voting the strong read first is logical.

[ThAdmiral]

Um Thad I moved on, but you bring it back up, the other game JUST ended and he turned out to be SCUM in that game not town. JS

Holy fuck.



What about "at that time" do you not get?
YOU DIDN'T KNOW HE WAS SCUM AT THAT TIME BECAUSE HE HAD A CLAIMED INNOCENT ON HIM.
WHAT HE FLIPPED POST FACT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE.

WHAT HE FLIPPED POST FACT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE.

WHAT HE FLIPPED POST FACT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE.

WHAT HE FLIPPED POST FACT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE.

WHAT HE FLIPPED POST FACT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE.

Ok, do you understand now?

I don't think you're this stupid so I can only assume you are intentionally missing the point.

[RachMarie]

I had forgotten the cop read hence I was thinking Luca was scum in that game just like here that is the point.

[RachMarie]

Not stupid, just sometimes forget something til I reread. Especially the past few weeks with the massive headaches.

[Snork]

Oh so that's why you immediately voted the remaining player instead of your scumread Luca in LYLO?

[Snork]

What are you talking about? This was 4 days ago....

[Snork]

And please stop using your personal issues as an excuse for everything.

[Nero Cain]

We aren't lynching Rach. Stop being shit Snork and your scum read Thad is voting her so why are you not questioning that wagon like you did with Luca?

[ThAdmiral]

Um nero can you explain what happened from here:

I do NOT have a town read on Rach

As of right now I'm thinking that scum are in

Mister Rogers
Snork
AngryPidgeon
Luca Blight
BipolarChemist
Yates
PeregrineV

RachMarie

Zdenek

I ABSOLUTLY want all of Rach, Blight and Chemist gone before lylo.

to here:

I DO have a town read on Rach regardless of how terrible she is.

?

[Nero Cain]

YEAH! Its something called different days and the fact that this crap attack happened on day 2 and not day 1 but I wouldn't expect you to figure that out...

[ThAdmiral]

Come on dude. I know it's different days but that doesn't answer the question, which is what lead you to change your read on rach.

You don't need to get defensive, I genuinely want to know. I don't have you as a scum read. Although if you continue acting like this I might.

[Nero Cain]

Come on dude. I know it's different days

but that doesn't answer the question

, which is what lead you to change your read on rach.

the fact that this crap attack happened on day 2

[ThAdmiral]

But why does that make her town?

[DeasVail]

I'm a bit run-down at the moment, and my days have been longer and more tiring this week, so I'll be catching up on the thread and posting thoughts, but I won't be re-ISOing people as I'd like to do before pushing scumreads. This will happen in full force most likely on the weekend/the beginning of next week which I have off.

I don't see what is awkward about that
Nero has been talking about Rogers all of Yesterday, did you not care then?
This post just -feels- fake to me

It just is, ok?
Not really. I care now though.
Cool.

Snork, my reads on talah and Luca only grew stronger as the day progressed. Talah started off as only a moderate townread who I ended up deciding I didn't want lynched at all, while Luca went from someone I didn't have a read on, to a great alternative to talah that I actually thought was scum.

1777 is pretty bad. How does one 'blow' a predecessor's towncred. Don't your reasons for thinking Mister Rogers strongly town still apply? Or does PA's lack of posting make the slot scummy?

Really? a well that sucks tell?

It did actually suck.

AP, why not actually wait and see whether I end up voting for PA before telling me that's what you think I'll do? Also, doesn't the fact that I've expressed lots of interest in voting for you mean I don't need anyone else to vote for? Unless I don't want to vote for you because we're scumbuddies! I have the answer!!!!

Bipolar slot is pretty town imo.

First impression is that Rach could be scum. Will need to think about it more later though.

Snork, why do you not consider that AP could be scum?

Sorry, I have to end at page 76. I can't read things properly anymore tonight. Again, I'll try to become completely caught up over the next couple of the days, but within a week I should definitely be completely involved again.

[SnowStorm]

If I was so happy with Luca's and talah's lynches why would I vote ThAd?

That's my question. I know why I was hoping for an aptil lynch over either Luca or talah. I don't see your motivation to move away from Luca and talah if you thought there was scum between them.

Well guess what? I wasn't happy with those wagons and I'd have much rather lynch ThAd (a strong scum read of mine) than Luca or talah. The fact that I moved my vote away from those wagons should tell you that. Otherwise I ask you, what would be my scum-motivation to move away from the talah wagon which I had strongly pushed at a point to ThAd?

And why does that make [4nxi3ty and ThAd] town in your eyes? I mean, it's not like they went after harder targets - Aptil is what I'd consider a perfect easy target. So while I'd understand your point if they were going after harder targets with good reason, I don't understand why you think there's town motivation in going after equally easy targets with not very good reasons.

aptil pinged scummy to me from the start of my readthrough. I'm less concerned with the purported ease of target than the ease of wagon. And the validity of said wagon. Luca and talah both looked quite town to me in my catch-up reading.

This didn't answer my question. Like, why do you think that is a valid reason to townread them?

vote: SnowStorm

fairly certain snow is attempting to tie himself to me by presenting an intentional wishywashy read: [...]

Why would I want to tie myself with you? What do you even mean with that? Why would I use "wishy-washy" reads to achieve that? And if you were so certain that I was attempting to tie myself to you, why didn't you wait for me do fulfill that attempt so that you'd have something more than just speculation to vote me for?

RAWRs cans I interject this rach detour?

ThAd lynch would be good too, imo.

Let's do it.

Vote: ThAdmiral.

probably

totally bussing. (how do I feign excitement about wagoning a buddy? "Let's Do It")

Like, seriously?

ya ever since I've been the default push for him I've been like: maybe? and now that he give up on me for a Rach lynch I'm like O_O

I'm not entirely sure on ThAd, but I think it makes sense with snow's play -

I'm sure snow is scum tho

, just look at the way he comments on talah and luca.

Are you?... Because I'm supposedly "attempting to tie myself to you with wishy-washy reads" and "bussing ThAd"? And on this same post you point out you're actually unsure about ThAd, which means you're accusing me of "totally bussing" someone you don't even think is scum?

This whole thought process feels weird to me.

First, the tying oneself to another player: presumably 4nxi3ty is coming from a mindset of knowing he's town, so you trying to link yourself to him is you trying to link yourself to a townie. Why do that if a) you aren't sure of the linkee's alignment, and b) there isn't an advantage in doing so. Here, you-scum and him-town means that if you successfully link the two of you, your alignments would be considered as identical, an advantage for your team regardless of who dies first.

And your second part, you're complaining because he thinks your play toward ThAd is indicative of bussing but he's voting you? If he thinks you're both scum, why is voting you first anti-town? If one has a strong read and a weak read, voting the strong read first is logical.

First, why are you answering something that was not adressed to you? Second I find it fascinating that you think my thought process is weirder than 4nx's (Actually, I'm not sure you do, but I'm assuming so because .context.). Third, do you actually think there's validity to 4nx's accusation? That if I was scum I would be using wishy-washy reads to tie myself to him as a mean to look town?

He doesn't think both ThAd and me are scum, that's the point. He's accusing me of "totally bussing" someone whom he doesn't have a scum read on. Tell me how that makes any sense.

[Damon_Gant]

Well if something does not have town motivation then one should presume and hunt for scum motivation, don't you think?

I can see potential town motivation behind it though? Admiral doesn't want to lynch a townread. Votes a scumread. Mastin did the same shit. Snork and Snow did the same shit.

But why vote for someone so close to deadline who had no chance of being lynched? As for listing a bunch of other people who did the same, yes, well I think most of them came off looking worse for it as well. I'm not impressed by the standing off of the main wagons and the question to me is just how many of these people you listed are scum. Standing off from the wagons as mastin did is such a safe, safe strategy for scum. As for those who attempted to start flashwagons - it confuses the town by spreading the vote between more people and has a nice chance of exposing power roles.

VOTE: Damon Gant.

It's not vanity.
It's

sanity

.

It

was

vanity, as far as I'm concerned the whole charade of staying off the main wagons was vanity for all those involved, and it's the kind of posturing that I am wary of.

There's more to come, but later, as my time is limited right now.