Tales of You (Endgame)

[Lord Business]

I currently am gaining a new found respect for those in this game attempting to cold read me, and assuming they are town it shows that contrary to my current opinion that MS is overly reliant on meta that in fact good old fashioned mafia game play still exists.

Now can we drop talk of who I may or may not be please and get on with the game.

[Lord Business]

The carbonfiber points I promised:

222 – a lot of fence sitting on reads, yet goes into great detail to say very little. I get early game will not warrant strong reads, but why bother to waffle then?

233 – Acknowledges having nothing solid. So why waffle?

256 – U-Turn on titan seems off because even though you were happy to spend a lot of words saying very little, its only now that you read a person more carefully?

267 – Dislike the arrogance of this post.

From here i have begun to believe your posts might actually be from a town mindset. As i stated the early play i wasn’t feeling too good about, but you have begun to press questions and impressing reads on your analysis. Post 313 in particular is a very strong post.

If i don’t take into account mastinSSK’s mastin’s previous mafia posting in too many heads he reads as very suspicious in this game. But in too many heads mastin seemed more interested in buddying people than attacking people, yet here he seems to have put more emphasis on the attack.

[Just Sheep Us]

Hey guys, Bro checking in.

Fuck y'all for making me catch up so many pages. Will get to this tonight or tomorrow.

Working on a better avatar, the NZ fern+mini sheep worked out relatively poorly.

[Titan]

I think Mastin realizes that

What do you make of his back-off based on being a sucker for your later "logical" posts? I've skimmed Good vs Evil as well so I am not sure which games he was referring to as sheeping you in post 197. And I agree that going after you could be a scum strategy after spectating on Tales of Vesperia. It would have to temporary though to snag a few townreads because an actual mislynch would be impossible.

~ F-16

...I don't know what to think of that. He will certainly attack anyone as scum and is quite capable of acting like he's considering the read. What I liked about "sucker for logical posts" is it gives the air of him actually trying to read me which is my main problem with both heads. It looks more like they decided they were going to push me as scum and is crafting that narrative than it looks like they organically suspected me and are pushing something they believe.

[Titan]

VOTE: cupcake

shinier

which head is this

Tammy.

But thank you for disabling the capslock when you asked! You know it worries me when you caps.

[Titan]

Titan because Tammy's always town (way more town than me) and when she's scum you know the scum QT is full of 'why aren't they lynching me'

Yep! Also FTFY :p

...and this is a pretty accurate summary of almost every scum qt I've ever been in.

[zMuffinMan]

Well that makes things simple.

All we need to do is get access to the scum QT to see whether Tammy is in there saying, "why aren't they lynching me?"

If she isn't saying that, she's probably town.

I'm amazed it took someone this long to suggest this.



-Nati

[Titan]

Hmmm if I'm reading something right with mastin, I don't know if I suspect them more OR if I should go lol cabd game could be town. By play they're scum, but there's a tiny blip that makes me wonder when he hints about his role.

[Titan]

Ye'd have to be thick,
To think MastinSSK be scum,
I'll suck a dog's dick,
If their scum flip does come

-Nati

You have fun with that!

I guess being on the high seas makes one...unpicky?

[Titan]

Nacho just told me that he's been posting early reads in our old Hydra QT from Legend of Zelda and I had no idea

He's got Tammy early town from (paraphrasing) genuine vesperia frustration + early reaching to/sorting of notscience head
LB/MastinSSK/RG are all early town reads for him too and I don't object to any of them (although I might still call LB null).

-b

Has he mentioned CF at all?

[Titan]

throwing down a naked vote isn't really engaging anyone either, is it?

If you ask mastin it would be an example of stron scum play, therefore it was a town tell for orci. At least that's what I got from it.

[Titan]

I remember grilling Tammy
She was in quite the fright
I assume she towned it up
Which was the goal of the night

unvote

Irritated, not in a fright. I was town from the start and I really really wish that people would start learning how to read me without resorting to let's frustrate Tammy! She town tells when she's frustrated and it's funny to boot! Yahoo yippee woohoo! I'm easy to read without that.

[Red Gyarados]

Well that makes things simple.

All we need to do is get access to the scum QT to see whether Tammy is in there saying, "why aren't they lynching me?"

If she isn't saying that, she's probably town.

I'm amazed it took someone this long to suggest this.



-Nati

It's vague because lolarticulation

I've given out 3 quick townreads actually

Titan Ffery and mastin but it's more based on how SSK sounded. While I see your point about it being scripted, meh. I feel like RBD didn't really engage them all that much though unless I'm remembering wrong which bugs me.

Titan because Tammy's always town (but not as town as me) and when she's scum you know the scum QT is full of 'why aren't they lynching me'

Maybe I'm jumping the gun on a ffery read, but if ffery's scum then she'll bring me to lylo anyways so it's future ns's problem

>.>

go die in a hole

I'm willing to let kagura get a townread for the moment.

I don't see the reasoning behind the mastinssk wagon.

[Red Gyarados]

I remember grilling Tammy
She was in quite the fright
I assume she towned it up
Which was the goal of the night

unvote

Irritated, not in a fright. I was town from the start and I really really wish that people would start learning how to read me without resorting to let's frustrate Tammy! She town tells when she's frustrated and it's funny to boot! Yahoo yippee woohoo! I'm easy to read without that.

lol that's how I used to read Sakura

UNTIL SHE STOPPED FLIPPING OUT ALL THE TIME

[Titan]

Direct obfuscation (by way of actively pretending like he has no history with you) is antitown.

try again

[Titan]

so which of the ceph/DV hydra is doing the super hardcore buddying?

[Titan]

HAS LORD BUSINESS LEFT THE GAME?!?!?!1?

I lol'd

[Titan]

LB reads town.

[Titan]

here have some contribution for like.. a while

town
Red Gyarados (Brian Skies and notscience)

slight town
Mac
Lord Business
Clyton

Slight scum
Carbon Fiber (FourTrouble and F16) (ill admit though i skipped some of their recent posts... like a lot)
Kagura (borkjerfkin + nachomamma8)
The Fox and the Hound (cephrir and DV)
Cupcake Panda

everyone else is null

[CarbonFiber]

Also, I'm probably not going to do a lot to sort Nacho this game, since I'm better at reading bork.

There are other players whose reads of me you should be a little concerned about, I think. Nati should go without saying, but orcinus also has a fair bit of experience playing with me.

orcinus' modus in the early game is to vote players he wants to talk to. He dropped his vote and disappeared in this game. What do you make of that?

I somehow missed this post. I don't find anything overwhelmingly townish or scummy about Bork but I have more experience playing with Nacho than him so I'll wait to hear from him.

Regarding Nati, I can generally tell if he is town later on in the game. Watching the Too Many Heads game, I was fairly certain Rancid was town. Spectating on Red Wine, I was quite sure Empire/Nati slot was scum based on both of their D1 interactions. So far Nati hasn't hit any of the town or scum markers I expected from him. In NY169, his posts came across differently but he was expecting me to do a meta-report on him so he might have been more welcoming because of that.

I'm not sure what to make of Orc disappearing after voting you. He certainly didn't do it in Tales of Vesperia and was quite ballsy going after Cait Sith but I'll keep an eye out for him.

~ F-16

[CarbonFiber]

Fox, what do you think of Breakfast? The whole bit where he says F-16's posts lack depth doesn't make sense. Thoughts?

I wasn't talking about lack of analytic depth. There is plenty of depth to most of his analysis. I was referring to lack of depth in interaction.

I think his reasons for thinking Mac is town are good, and fit what I've seen in the past from him in terms of how he goes about forming reads.

I asked FT whether my play lacked depth because I wondered if I was just having an off game but he flatly denied it and said I was probably playing better than anyone else which made your lacking depth comment sound off.

When you say lacking depth in interaction, are you saying that you would have preferred that I grill you on your Mac read more as being helpful and pro-town overall or just because it would fit in with my past meta in NY169? Upon re-evaluating my play, I eliminated aspects of it that I thought were unhelpful specifically extended discussion of agreed upon reads. I am going to play in a way I believe would help town the most regardless of what I did before. If I did it differently in a previous game, then I changed my mind since then as to what I believe is the most effective course of action.

Also, are you asking me to compare notes with you because it will help us both refine our reads or was it something you expected to see and didn't see it now? I'd like to know which it was since it'll help me optimize my play not just here but in the future.

~ F-16

[Titan]

Brian - I got my role pm delivered to my main! Maybe I'm special

[CarbonFiber]

Hey F16,
Are ye scum?
Muffin wants to battle ye,
I'm calling him dumb

-Nati

You called him the right thing. Give him a punch in the face to go with it.
~ F-16

[MastinSSK]

Eh, I'll work on the MD post tonight.

Orc, in spite of basically just stopping in to say "hello", is a decent townread, too.

i'm sorry what??

Exactly what it sounded like? Your vote on ffery was basically your greeting. It felt town. Could come from scum, don't think it did.

Still paranoid of Carbon-Fox, by the way.

Feeling mastin town from stuff like #165 - it's entirely tonal but very close to mastin town I've seen (and the one I wish I would've seen in Vesperia)

Sure there's plenty to townread me for, but 165 was really a load of null. 141, 161, and 173 are probably the strongest examples from that time, and even they're not that strongly town.

This paragraph is just really bizarre. I wish you could stop with the "[player who has literally not posted] is town" crap, I'm trying to give you a fair chance here but that isn't helping. The cogdis of your read on PV is also disconcerting.

This is especially concerning.

That post
it blows

^

Something doesn't sit right with me about 436. Perhaps it's the repetition of the same point twice, but I've spent about 10 minutes trying to decide if it's coming from a town PoV or scum, and as of yet, I'm undecided.

Strongly leaning scum.

These really throw me off. MastinSSK is really flip floppy here, and I don't like it.

(Helpful hint, flippity-floppity reads are something I've never been able to successfully fake 100% as scum.)[/quote] (Elemental Hawk

might

be scum, but eh.)

Elemental's post rubs me the wrong way. They're basically calling F-16 scum because his opinions change as he reads and re-reads the game. Very superficial analysis, considering that F-16's changes in opinion are responses to developments in the game, to re-reading, and have been explained. The non-committal suspicion on MastinSSK is also terrible, especially when combined with the analysis on us. I get the feeling that MastinSSK + Elemental are partners from this alone.

-FT

Funny, considering I picked up the vibe that he's partners with you, given the above.

Point is, Elemental's basically doing one of those classic scum-tells -- calling Mastin + us scummy, but preparing to vote for us, not Mastin. Assuming Mastin is scum, Elemental is pretty much guaranteed scum.

-FT

The thing where you attack both your partner and the guy attacking your partner, but vote for the guy attacking your partner. Pretty sure it's a classic scum-tell, though it doesn't really matter. I'm not a huge believer in objective scum-tells. What I'm trying to say is that Elemental is scummy, and he's scummy cause his post was massive shit.

-FT

(This is also a bit hypocritical.)

Where the fuck and BROseidon and Desperado?

Valid question. Lean towards it not being a scumtell, though.

Hmmm if I'm reading something right with mastin, I don't know if I suspect them more OR if I should go lol cabd game could be town. By play they're scum, but there's a tiny blip that makes me wonder when he hints about his role.

Read by play, not by role.
*votes us*
...Get better at reading play, THEN read by play.

If you ask mastin it would be an example of stron scum play, therefore it was a town tell for orci. At least that's what I got from it.

No, basically, the hello strongly looked town; the only reason orc isn't a much stronger townread is that it could be Tales-orc. I think it's a town him; I'm not certain it's a town him.

I don't see the reasoning behind the mastinssk wagon.

The reason is because it's Mastin and SSK.

(Another helpful hint, you can differentiate legitimate wagons on me from not-right-and-maybe-scumdriven-wagons on me by that factor. There's actually solid reasoning that you just "get" for me being scum? I'm scum. You don't understand the wagon? That's because I'm actually town.)

[Yulia Jue]

Votecount 1-6 (Unchanged)

With 17 players alive, it will take 9 votes to lynch or nolynch.

CupcakePanda (2): The Fox and the Hound, Lord Business
Clyton (1): Just Sheep Us
ElementalHawk (1): Mac
PeregrineV (1): Red Gyarados

MastinSSK (3): Titan, Elementalhawk, CupcakePanda

Carbon Fiber (2): MastinSSK, Rancid Broderick Drake
Kagura (1): orcinus_theoriginal
Yukari Yamoto (1): Breakfast With Stalin

Hey muffin and nati, I know you suck at hydras but please at least TRY to keep it inside your hydra account, mmkay?

With 17 players alive, deadline is set for 18 days: (expired on 2014-04-18 00:01:39)