Tales of You (Endgame)

[Titan]

@titan, I read you saying you found it odd I was coming to a town read conclusion on you faster than others who know you better. Is that an issue regarding me or them? Because I am not going to wait in a queue while people you want to town read you first get there. I looked at too many heads mafia and felt your posting there if a reflection of your mafia game is far more noticeable and dare I day 'scummy' in the tactics you employ.
Here I have initially felt your hydra trying to force a dominance where people have to prove to you they are town, but I admit this may have been a premature reaction because you aren't the only one doing it. And your challenges on people have not employed any underhand emotional threats or fearmongering.
Even the explanation of why you handwaved me away with a threat to push my wagon while a flawed idea did at least make sense in the context of how it all played out.

I found it odd for them.

[Titan]

Mastin - on iPad so not cutting down your wall but you don't get to tell me to get better at reading play while having me as a scum read.

I think it's possible you're the yin to my yang so to speak and that freaks me out, but cabd game so lol.

[MastinSSK]

you don't get to tell me to get better at reading play while having me as a scum read.

I think it's possible you're the yin to my yang so to speak and that freaks me out, but cabd game so lol.

You're not a scumread anymore, you're just not a townread. (Yeah, that's new, I know.)

And I sincerely doubt that your role is a yin to my yang considering my role is kinda sorta both a yin AND a yang.

[Mac]

here have some contribution for like.. a while

town
Red Gyarados (Brian Skies and notscience)

slight town
Mac
Lord Business
Clyton

Slight scum
Carbon Fiber (FourTrouble and F16) (ill admit though i skipped some of their recent posts... like a lot)
Kagura (borkjerfkin + nachomamma8)
The Fox and the Hound (cephrir and DV)
Cupcake Panda

everyone else is null

I take it this ying yang nonsense is why you have mastin at null - now that they're saying they're their (HOLY MOTHER OF GRAMMAR) own ying yang, does this change?

[Titan]

Okay I've caught up. I have some thoughts I might post tonight, but I have some work that needs to get done so it *might* not be until tomorrow.

They probably don't look much like my other heads thoughts though >_>

[Titan]

here have some contribution for like.. a while

town
Red Gyarados (Brian Skies and notscience)

slight town
Mac
Lord Business
Clyton

Slight scum
Carbon Fiber (FourTrouble and F16) (ill admit though i skipped some of their recent posts... like a lot)
Kagura (borkjerfkin + nachomamma8)
The Fox and the Hound (cephrir and DV)
Cupcake Panda

everyone else is null

I take it this ying yang nonsense is why you have mastin at null - now that they're saying they're their (HOLY MOTHER OF GRAMMAR) own ying yang, does this change?

2 diff people

[Mac]

this is difficult with so many missing parties.

step the fuck up kids.

[Mac]

oh wow totally didn't realise it wasn't tammy there, sorry arthur. interested to hear more on your kagura read?

[Mac]

it may have been tammy who made that post. I DON'T REALLY KNOW.

[CarbonFiber]

The carbonfiber points I promised:
222 – a lot of fence sitting on reads, yet goes into great detail to say very little. I get early game will not warrant strong reads, but why bother to waffle then?
233 – Acknowledges having nothing solid. So why waffle?

I posted my thoughts about the game. I could have chosen to post nothing but that wouldn't have been very helpful. Probably the same reason you made this post outlining a case on us in great detail and then waffle and say we could be town.

256 – U-Turn on titan seems off because even though you were happy to spend a lot of words saying very little, its only now that you read a person more carefully?

I didn't see anything obviously town from Titan on my first read of the thread. After Tammy engaged me, I read their ISO more closely to see why I didn't get a read and realized they were town all along and I had just missed some of the posts which made them town. I also initially forgot what I wanted to ask Tammy (why she didn't claim that she could read our slot as soon as I posted when other players were commenting on FT's posts but it turns out she was waiting on me to initiate interaction). Also, there is no way 254 came from scum so that sealed the deal. Part of my read was influenced by the push because I saw the obvtowniness there when I previously hadn't. If I were scum who hadn't read the thread carefully, I probably would have townread Titan as I usually do, not wait till I am certain. I've read Tammy as town off of less posts than here before.

~ F-16

[Titan]

Mac - I (Tammy) typically don't post reads lists that way. :p

[CarbonFiber]

Tammy, I am not manipulating you on your read on Mastin. I am being very transparent about my read. I think they are scum primarily because Mastin thinks I am scum. There are other supplementary reasons and other things that felt off but overall it fits in exactly what I would expect from scum-Mastin. I don't believe that his read on me is genuine.

If anything, Elementalhawk's posts read as manipulation. He picked up on a post that would resonate with you and attacked me based on it possibly subtly hoping you would agree with it. I am not being subtle about anything. I blatantly agreed with your initial read and I don't agree that backing off would make Mastin town. He had two suspects, you and me. He could easily have called you town so that you wonder if he is town while attacking our slot because we are more certain in our read and easier to attack than you.

~ F-16

[Mac]

Stalin, may we have brunch?

Wondering where you are with scumreads, or townreads that's the way you're rolling.

[Mac]

I think they are scum primarily because Mastin thinks I am scum. There are other supplementary reasons and other things that felt off but overall it fits in exactly what I would expect from scum-Mastin. I don't believe that his read on me is genuine.

Hi, I'm butting in a tad here. Can you share a bit more information on this? What makes you think his read isn't genuine? Do you see it as impossible for townmastin to misread you?

[CarbonFiber]

I don't think it is impossible for him to have an incorrect read on me. The way he developed the read felt off. He initially read Titan and us as possible scum after seeing some people say that FT's first post looked off. Then he noticed Tammy's incorrect read on me and chose to capitalize on it. He also noticed Tammy's paranoia of me being manipulating after I blatantly tried to explain to her that Mastin's was scum and changed his read so that he had us as scummier than Titan.

He then townread nearly everyone else who would be influential in gathering votes (Rancid, ffery-beli, GIF, Orc, Nacho-bork, with a leaning town on you) for very poor reasons. His reasoning isn't solid and reads look like they serve a scum agenda. He's also being generally unreasonable about his read on us which doesn't make sense from my previous experience with Mastin as town and his push on us felt like he was trying to frustrate us into reacting badly as opposed to genuinely trying to engage us. But I am way too happy and upbeat in this game to let that get to me so he doesn't know what he is dealing with.

~ F-16

[Kagura]

On phone so can't quote or anything

@Mastin: it throws my shit off when the target of my townread subverts the reasoning I gave, especially if they're townreading me.

Like I just don' t get your angle here.

-B

[Mac]

I don't think it is impossible for him to have an incorrect read on me. The way he developed the read felt off. He initially read Titan and us as possible scum after seeing some people say that FT's first post looked off. Then he noticed Tammy's incorrect read on me and chose to capitalize on it. He also noticed Tammy's paranoia of me being manipulating after I blatantly tried to explain to her that Mastin's was scum and changed his read so that he had us as scummier than Titan.

His development of the read looked pretty fine from my perspective. Tell me why mastin would choose to fire at you over Tammy, purely because Tammy was also scumreading you? It doesn't make sense given he was also scumreading Tammy at the time.

This is the second time you're using this argument (as in, he voted us over someone else) and it doesn't sit right with me. You have now accused mastinSSK and ElementalHawk of similar offences, it just blows to be perfectly honest.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

A scumread on Tammy isn't sustainable because scum who scumread Tammy with shit reasons generally wind up dead. I don't know why he chose to scumread Tammy initially other than WIFOM or cred for going after high hanging fruit. He has to figure out a way to back out of the scumread and pretending to see eye to eye with Tammy and her suspicion of me was a perfect opportunity considering he was already working up a scumread based off of FT's initial post.

More than that, his engagement with us after he scumread us doesn't feel like he is genuinely trying to determine our alignment. His reads on other players also don't feel like they are genuine and feel opportunistic.

It isn't uncommon for scum to all attack the same player. I don't think he is scum for voting us over

"someone else"

. I think he is scum because his read feels fake.

~ F-16

[CarbonFiber]

A scumread on Tammy isn't sustainable because scum who scumread Tammy with shit reasons generally wind up dead. I don't know why he chose to scumread Tammy initially other than WIFOM or cred for going after high hanging fruit. He has to figure out a way to back out of the scumread and pretending to see eye to eye with Tammy and her suspicion of me was a perfect opportunity considering he was already working up a scumread based off of FT's initial post.

More than that, his engagement with us after he scumread us doesn't feel like he is genuinely trying to determine our alignment. His reads on other players also don't feel like they are genuine and feel opportunistic.

It isn't uncommon for scum to all attack the same player. I don't think he is scum for voting us over

"someone else"

. I think he is scum because his read feels fake.

~ F-16

[MastinSSK]

Tammy, I am not manipulating you on your read on Mastin. I am being very transparent about my read. I think they are scum primarily because Mastin thinks I am scum. There are other supplementary reasons and other things that felt off but overall it fits in exactly what I would expect from scum-Mastin. I don't believe that his read on me is genuine.

If anything, Elementalhawk's posts read as manipulation. He picked up on a post that would resonate with you and attacked me based on it possibly subtly hoping you would agree with it. I am not being subtle about anything. I blatantly agreed with your initial read and I don't agree that backing off would make Mastin town. He had two suspects, you and me. He could easily have called you town so that you wonder if he is town while attacking our slot because we are more certain in our read and easier to attack than you.

~ F-16

I don't think it is impossible for him to have an incorrect read on me. The way he developed the read felt off. He initially read Titan and us as possible scum after seeing some people say that FT's first post looked off. Then he noticed Tammy's incorrect read on me and chose to capitalize on it. He also noticed Tammy's paranoia of me being manipulating after I blatantly tried to explain to her that Mastin's was scum and changed his read so that he had us as scummier than Titan.

He then townread nearly everyone else who would be influential in gathering votes (Rancid, ffery-beli, GIF, Orc, Nacho-bork, with a leaning town on you) for very poor reasons. His reasoning isn't solid and reads look like they serve a scum agenda. He's also being generally unreasonable about his read on us which doesn't make sense from my previous experience with Mastin as town and his push on us felt like he was trying to frustrate us into reacting badly as opposed to genuinely trying to engage us. But I am way too happy and upbeat in this game to let that get to me so he doesn't know what he is dealing with.

~ F-16

The tone here just doesn't feel like town-F16. I dunno why. That's ignoring the content which I'm intentionally skimming. Something about him just feels

off

.

@Mastin: it throws my shit off when the target of my townread subverts the reasoning I gave, especially if they're townreading me.

Gonna need to be more specific than that. I've scumread lots of people stronger people are townreading; not sure who specifically you're referring to.

Like I just don' t get your angle here.

I don't have one.

That's actually a pretty dang large part of the problem.

[MastinSSK]

I don't know why she chose to scumread Tammy initially other than WIFOM or cred for going after high hanging fruit.

Or because, y'know. I scumread her.

Her reads on other players also don't feel like they are genuine and feel opportunistic.

So tell me again how targeting stronger players in the game is in any way opportunistic. (Granted, you can make a case for me being scum off of that! 'Cause targeting stronger players IS something I do as scum.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Fox, what do you think of Breakfast? The whole bit where he says F-16's posts lack depth doesn't make sense. Thoughts?

I wasn't talking about lack of analytic depth. There is plenty of depth to most of his analysis. I was referring to lack of depth in interaction.

I think his reasons for thinking Mac is town are good, and fit what I've seen in the past from him in terms of how he goes about forming reads.

I asked FT whether my play lacked depth because I wondered if I was just having an off game but he flatly denied it and said I was probably playing better than anyone else which made your lacking depth comment sound off.

When you say lacking depth in interaction, are you saying that you would have preferred that I grill you on your Mac read more as being helpful and pro-town overall or just because it would fit in with my past meta in NY169? Upon re-evaluating my play, I eliminated aspects of it that I thought were unhelpful specifically extended discussion of agreed upon reads. I am going to play in a way I believe would help town the most regardless of what I did before. If I did it differently in a previous game, then I changed my mind since then as to what I believe is the most effective course of action.

protown, helpful in developing a read of your slot, and would fit your past meta, and not just in ny 169.

Also, are you asking me to compare notes with you because it will help us both refine our reads or was it something you expected to see and didn't see it now? I'd like to know which it was since it'll help me optimize my play not just here but in the future.

Nearly everything I do in games I do for multiple reasons. I don't generally keep checklists of stuff I expect to see from players when I play with them. When something seems off in someone's play, then I think about why - what they're doing that I haven't seen before, what they're not doing that I have seen, etc. Those kinds of observations become shorthand in my reads, but there's usually a whole cascade of detail I can post when asked. Mac and I have played in about 10 games, now. And I just realized that this isn't your first game with him. He was one of the heads in the Stuffed Crust hydra. The head I was mostly townreading. :/

You said something earlier about thinking that you had irritated me in the ny169 game by asking for more detail about my reads. IIRC I did get snappish about being asked for updated reads at one point, but it was the week my laptop bit the dust and I was posting from a netbook or a tablet for a few days. massive rereads, heavy analysis, and even documenting my thoughts with links was a huge pain that week and I put it off until I bought a new laptop. IIRC it was 4 or 5 days duration.

~ F-16[/quote]

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Stalin, may we have brunch?

Wondering where you are with scumreads, or townreads that's the way you're rolling.

I have a list squirreled away in our hydra QT. Mostly townreads and players I want more data from at this point. but I have about 24 hours worth of posts in this game to mull over and consider their effect. I haven't seen anything that's shaken a town read from earlier though.

Do you want to talk about it now or wait a few hours?

[CarbonFiber]

The tone here just doesn't feel like town-F16. I dunno why. That's ignoring the content which I'm intentionally skimming. Something about him just feels off.

Really Mastin? I too can quote a bunch of your posts and say your tone feels "off" but I can't explain why. This is like you are intentionally accusing me in a way that is impossible to respond to. My tone feels fine. I've never been more invested and more determined to burn the scumteam to the ground and you picked the wrong fucking game to try to mislynch me.
~ F-16

[MastinSSK]

I too can quote a bunch of your posts and say your tone feels "off" but I can't explain why.

And you wouldn't be wrong.

This is like you are intentionally accusing me in a way that is impossible to respond to.

Awful lot of words for something that's supposedly impossible.

Butyeah. Wasn't made as a case. Was made as an observation.

I've never been more invested and more determined to burn the scumteam to the ground.

Sure you feel different. But in the more...ragey kind of way? More determined to, well, prove yourself, sure, yeah, but...not in the town way?

/is distracted. Mind's not exactly making much clarity right now.