NY 172: Another Large Normal (GAME OVER)

[penguin_alien]

What are yo to get out of this?

you worried?

LOLnope. Just an odd entry.

PA, gun to your head-read on Mastin.

Gun to my head, scum. Rereading her ISO, I think the lack of bossing town around is a byproduct of low activity rather than an absence of intent. And the stances she takes are really unsubstantiated across the board.

[Nero Cain]

Nero - the only reason you are townreading Rach is because I'm scumreading her?

But you don't even know my alignment? Neither of us have flipped... why aren't you basing your reads on what people have done? You saw how well association reads worked yesterday....

I think the CASE on Rach is crap. PERIOD. Though I am cautious about you and Thad, I could see where his pointed question would lead you to believe that.

[AngryPidgeon]

I also (surprisingly!) agree with AP who first brought this up.

[Nero Cain]

Am I the white chick or the black one?

[Snork]

Well ok that's fine if you think my reasoning is crap. But I guess I don't understand how that changes your perception of

her

… if you thought she was scum, my consideration of her play wouldn't, or shouldn't change that, since that is my doing and not hers. The same should be true if you thought she was town.

[Nero Cain]

So you think that if a bad case is being pushed then its alignment irrelevant? I disagree and I think that's a large source of mislynchs on this site.

So what do you think of all the others calling her town?

[ThAdmiral]

If you think changes of heart with no explanation is scummy then why are you not suspicious of Snork who pretty much did a hard reset for little to no reason? I also (surprisingly!) agree with AP who first brought this up.

snork's change of heart did make me raise an eyebrow but he explains his thoughts pretty clearly in 1790. The fact that he was so sure talah was scum and she flipped town is an adequate explanation of why his reads may have been so shaken up.

Are you like being dense here or are you just scum? In those same posts you quoted today it shows me town reading Rach. Are you really getting fussy about me changing my stance without using the words "I've changed my stance" And yet you also quoted my posts from yesterday wich shows me scum reading her and my posts from today that show me town reading her but you say it wasn't obvious? Come on man, this is starting to look like some fake derp.

No, you're the one that's being intentionally dense.
Obviously I recognize that you CURRENTLY read rach as town. I'm interested in

the process of change

. THAT is what I don't get. I don't get what happened in your brain to move rach from scum who you wanted lynched, to town.

yes but you'll need to explain what that has to do with anything.

I was hoping the inherent ridiculousness of your stance would become apparent, but clearly not.

[Nero Cain]

the fact that this crap attack happened on day 2

I have a tendency to think really bad pushes usually make a player town

I think the CASE on Rach is crap

[ThAdmiral]

Nero - the only reason you are townreading Rach is because I'm scumreading her?

But you don't even know my alignment? Neither of us have flipped... why aren't you basing your reads on what people have done? You saw how well association reads worked yesterday....

I think the CASE on Rach is crap. PERIOD. Though I am cautious about you and Thad, I could see where his pointed question would lead you to believe that.

Clearly there is a lot you and I agree with in regards to rach as we were both scumreading her day 1. It's also clear, however, that we disagreed about what snork pointed out about rach at the start of today (i.e. luca being cleared by cop in another game, although he was actually scum), even though rach later admitted it was only because she was "confused" about the other game - which in many ways shows that snork's (and by extension my own) position was justified.

You've said it was a crap attack multiple times, maybe I just need you to clarify to me exactly what was so crap about it.

I also agree with what snork says here:

Well ok that's fine if you think my reasoning is crap. But I guess I don't understand how that changes your perception of

her

… if you thought she was scum, my consideration of her play wouldn't, or shouldn't change that, since that is my doing and not hers. The same should be true if you thought she was town.

so what do you think of all the others calling her town?

I know this was addressed to snork but I'm personally baffled by it. I'm focusing on you, however, as to my knowledge none of the other people had so clearly identified her as scum yesterday.

[Nero Cain]

I'll respond to you in a sec but just for the record, what is your read on Snork?

[Snork]

So you think that if a bad case is being pushed then its alignment irrelevant? I disagree and I think that's a large source of mislynchs on this site.

So what do you think of all the others calling her town?

I never said that. It CAN be, if you combine it with other factors. However, it's MY alignment this would be indicative of, not hers. Since it's MY reasoning, not hers. But you were scumreading both of us yesterday, and my read on her hasn't changed. The only thing that has changed is YOUR read on her. The fact that I am still scumreading her is just as shitty a reason to flip your read on her as her reason for flipping on luca.

And as for the people who are town reading her, I think they are missing it. The claim she is making is so clearly false I have a hard time feeling like anyone townreading her isn't just stupid. I know they're not but that is my gut reaction. I can't understand how anyone could look at her ISO and think that pity party of bullshit excuses and lies is fucking town. And it pisses me off quite honestly.

[Plessiez]

It's day 2. Deadline for the day is 13th April, 15:45. That's (expired on 2014-04-13 15:45:32).

Vote Count 2.5

SnowStorm [4 votes] (penguin_alien, 4nxi3ty, Angry Pidgeon, mastin2)
RachMarie [2 votes] (Snork, ThAdmiral)
ThAdmiral [2 votes] (SnowStorm, aptil)
TheWayItEnds [1 vote] (Yates)
penguin_alien [1 vote] (Nero Cain)

7 players are not voting

: {Damon_Gant, DeasVail, Egg, PeregrineV, projectmatt, RachMarie, TheWayItEnds}

With

17

players alive it takes

9

votes to lynch somebody or to go to night.

Activity

RachMarie is V/LA until April 6th.
projecttmatt is V/LA until April 7th.
Yates is V/LA.

[Nero Cain]

You've said it was a crap attack multiple times, maybe I just need you to clarify to me exactly what was so crap about it.

I can do this.

Rach is in a newbie game, finds Luca scummy. Guy claims inno on him.

Here's what Rach said in this game

So yeah there was cause to see Luca as a scumspect on D1 here in this game.

but she also said this

His play in that game was

similar

to the play in this game but I was not able to talk about it.

wich ok...is kinda dumb 'cause the diffrence in Luca's play in those games were like night and day but the key thing here is that SHE THOUGHT THIER PLAY WAS SIMILAR.

So Rach thinks Luca is scum in newbie game, thinks his play is similar here, wants him dead here. Makes sense here so far.

"BUT THIER WAS AN INNO ON HIM!" yells the maybe scum alt and scumThad.

ok.

I had forgotten the cop read hence I was thinking Luca was scum in that game just like here that is the point.

Earlier she says...

My feeling was he was scum

until I reread

and saw the cop clear

ok, lets look at the newbie game

You realize Luca is cop confirmed town right?

having

reread

yes I do. Jake

Her last post in THIS game was Thu Mar 27, 2014 2:41 pm, long before she reread the cop claim in the newbie. So she was voting Luca in this game BEFORE she even reread the newbie inno claim. So to her she THOUGHT LUCA WAS SCUM.

So the chain of events go something like this:

Rach finds Luca scummy in random newbie game>>>>Rach finds Luca scummy in this game>>>>Rach forgets the inno in a newbie game>>>>Rach still wants a dead Luca in this game.>>>Rachs last post in this game>>>she rereads the cop claim.

Are you arguing that she had the foresight to hop on Luca and then "lie" in the newbie game that she forgot the cop claim just so she could defend herself here? I think her play makes perfect sense and I don't think she's lying about forgetting the cop inno.

[Nero Cain]

I also agree with what snork says here:

Well ok that's fine if you think my reasoning is crap. But I guess I don't understand how that changes your perception of

her

… if you thought she was scum, my consideration of her play wouldn't, or shouldn't change that, since that is my doing and not hers. The same should be true if you thought she was town.

This isn't exactly rocket science here. If you don't agree with a case YOU DON'T JOIN THE WAGON! Is it possible to have a crap case on scum? Sure but then you are essentially arguing that you pegged scum for the wrong reasons which isn't a very good argument. So if an argument is not very good then its stands to reason that you are probably wrong about their alignment.

so what do you think of all the others calling her town?

I know this was addressed to snork but I'm personally baffled by it. I'm focusing on you, however, as to my knowledge none of the other people had so clearly identified her as scum yesterday.

ok.........the fact that I had a scum read on her yesterday and didn't like the case on her today and think she's town has like shit all to do with anything.

So you think that if a bad case is being pushed then its alignment irrelevant? I disagree and I think that's a large source of mislynchs on this site.

So what do you think of all the others calling her town?

However, it's MY alignment this would be indicative of, not hers. Since it's MY reasoning, not hers.

Are you claiming scum here? 'Cause town push bad cases all the time.

The fact that I am still scumreading her is just as shitty a reason to flip your read on her as her reason for flipping on luca.

Ignoring the fact that I said that said I think the case is crap (and I'm actually more worried with Thad here, though your reason YESTERDAY for not lynching Luca was 'cause your scumreads are on him but now that your scum read Thad is on you are kinda like "eh" and that IS a bit alarming.) and not so much about me hating you, don't you find that a tad bit hypocritical?

[Nero Cain]

Thad shouldn't live much longer, lets put him out of his misery.

vote:Thad

reads on AP, Yates, and DV noa.

[DeasVail]

Prod dodge.

[Snork]

Nero I understand you thinl the CASE is crap. I don't think you're getting my point, which is that if you are scum reading two people, one of which is scum reading the other, and the next day that person is still scum reading the other, and forms an argument that you think is crap, that shouldn't affect your read on rach. If anything it should strengthen your scumread on me yet that hasnt happened. You all of a sudden town read rach and are pushing thad.

Whatever. You aren't going to get it cuz I don't know how else to explain what I mean. And regarding thad on the wagon, I mean how many times do I have to say that didn't work yesterday? Why would I use the same method today?

[Damon_Gant]

It

was

vanity, as far as I'm concerned the whole charade of staying off the main wagons was vanity for all those involved, and it's the kind of posturing that I am wary of.

Except I was right:
Both wagons were on town.

Thus, attempting to get a wagon

not

on one of them wasn't vanity; it was sanity.

Wow, I didn't realise this! Both wagons did turn out to be on town! Well I'll be blown. Of course, you placed your vote on another incorrect wagon so whatever. As I said, I think not being on either of those two wagons on Day 1 does not even begin to give town cred of any sort. The most likely people to be "right" about that sort of thing are scum in my opinion.

Later in that post you did say possibly the first thing I agree with you about though. SnowStorm's recent posting has been very scummy in my eyes. This is a lead I'm going to chase down and try and pinpoint exactly

what

has changed about SnowStorm's posting that has made me feel like this, because I don't find reasonless accusations of scumminess to be very useful.

My time lately has been limited, but that changes dramatically in approximately 3 hours where my time suddenly becomes near unlimited for the next couple of weeks, so maybe then I'll be able to crack this game.

[PeregrineV]

AngryPigeon.



You


are fucking infuriating.

Was going to wait until the end to comment, but this cracked me up.

[PeregrineV]

I guess it depends on the mod Nero. I usually see in multiball two different kinds of death like shooting and stabbing or something of that nature.

You see that a lot more in themes. Generally Normals shouldn't distinguish kills (although sometimes mafia/SK kills can be different)

[PeregrineV]

OK, out of three replacements
Egg for BiPolar
Penguin for MisterRogers
Way It Ends for pisskop

I remember Egg's entrance and find it the most town. It comes in and scumhunts. Expecting more...*hint hint*

and maybe I misread, but don't recall the Penguin or WayItEnds entrance. Probably just misread. Will go find it.

Meanwhile,

vote: 4nxi3ty

[AngryPidgeon]

Am I the white chick or the black one?

The black one probably.

snork's change of heart did make me raise an eyebrow but he explains his thoughts pretty clearly in 1790. The fact that he was so sure talah was scum and she flipped town is an adequate explanation of why his reads may have been so shaken up.

Mmm. I've definitely devolved into various levels of insanity or waffling or self-doubt when my reads have flipped wrong (trying to contain that recently), but Snork's didn't really feel that genuine. He just sort of announced that he would be reconsidering everything and then came up with 2 new townreads from the blue and chalked it up to that? His posts about RM look fairly town though, so eh. Not sure why you think this in particular looked genuine though, it was kind of the opposite? Of the reasons to townread Snork, this is not what Id go with.

The claim she is making is so clearly false

I thought you weren't accusing her of lying
I dunno man, I'll feel pretty dumb if RM is actually jusy hilariously scum this game, but sometimes people (myself included) think dumb thoughts and do dumb things. I really don't see why RM would make a vote hop from one leading town wagon to the other just to try and back it up with some crazy-ass theory about scumreading him in another game? I subscribe to the belief that weird/extravagant cases are a towntell, and this fits under that. I find it unlikely she would post such an enigmatic defense as scum (that also depends on the game being over?) instead of coming up with something more reasonable over the night when she could definitely talk to buddies about it anyways.

I know they're not but that is my gut reaction. I can't understand how anyone could look at her ISO and think that pity party of bullshit excuses and lies is fucking town.

Snork, I love you man but you gotta stop getting so personally vested in this RM case. This isn't the first time someone has posted a myriad of RL excuses and lurked, it happens. RM is one of the lower post count players in general so her ISO is even less interesting here. I love the passion, but m 90% sure RM is just a distraction Today. I dont get why you are so personally offended by RM or the townreads on her, but come on,

I have cake and ice cream on this snowstorm wagon.

I strongly recommend you take a step back, consider that people may know what they are talking about about RM, and pursue some other avenues a little. Your tunnel here is not getting anywhere and its making you salty.



I stron

[AngryPidgeon]

I stron

I strongly suspect RM is gonna flip town this game.*

[aptil]

Projectmatt looks scum from just the single post on the last page . Wishy-washy reads even after so many pages of content . Most of the players are in an uncertain pile .

[AngryPidgeon]

Projectmatt looks scum from just the single post on the last page

I could definitely see it. His posts have the air of not trying to make many enemies.