NY 172: Another Large Normal (GAME OVER)

[DeasVail]

cuz I'm not talah and have my own opinions of people. Tho I should be open to considering the reads of dead players, true.

You are using talah's view of my scum-meta though, so this doesn't quite cut it!

[Nero Cain]

What's the current case on Snowstorm?

[penguin_alien]

Upon review, I'm town reading Yates, which makes me inclined not to dismiss the TWIE-pisskop read entirely, especially since I'm still not clear on what he was trying to do with his expressed doubts on me. Yates, I know you're on V/LA, but when you're able can you give me a rundown more specifically on why you think TWIE is the best lynch for today?

Still more interested in lynching SnowStorm, but it also wouldn't take much for me to switch to mastin. I know she's been gone for the weekend as normal, but the more I reread her ISO, the less I like it, especially since I happen to like Damon_Gant's recent posts.

[Nero Cain]

I'm town reading Yates, which makes me inclined not to dismiss the TWIE-pisskop read entirely

Even if Yates is town that doesn't mean his read is right so what do YOU think of TWIE?

[Plessiez]

Neither AngryPidgeon nor aptil nor Egg have posted for over 48 hours and none of them has arranged a V/LA. They have all therefore been prodded.

[Yates]

In other news pisskop stopped posting on page 52 before he was replaced.

Not posting is not the same as not reading. He was posting for 5 days after his last post here. Are you going to try to tell me that you don't think he even bothered to READ this game while posting in others??

7 people were still not on either of the leading wagons. With his vote that he hasn't moved since page 29.

The first part of this is fair. I checked and Talah had 7 votes when pisskop ACTUALLY stopped posting [March 24]. The second part, though, is actually part of his scum case. That's a vote park. Vote parking is scummy.

And seriously if the case against me is that one of the 2 people off the scum wagon HAS to be scum

Yeah. Not why I'm voting your slot but it is likely and just more fuel for the fire.

My actual reason for voting pisskop is for his misreps and horrible play. Feel free to just look at the exchanges he had with me in ISO if you want the short short version of why I hate your slot. You have done nothing to improve it and I see no reason not to see it lynched.

Yates, I know you're on V/LA, but when you're able can you give me a rundown more specifically on why you think TWIE is the best lynch for today?

I'm actually able to type a little better from work and on fewer pharmaceutical grade pain killers so my activity should be somewhat better. I just have to remember to hit the space key with my index finger instead of my thumb!

The bottom line is that I HATED pisskop. Please see above. I'm not reading TWIE independent of his predecessor.

[AngryPidgeon]

So this is awkward but me agreeing with you about Damon is not? Ok then!

Are you actually reading into this? Me and Nero have a big history of clashing a lot, hence the gif. I cannot believe you actually took time to complain that I didnt post one for you.

@Damon (and anyone else I guess): Why does SnowStorm as scum stop voting for talah (who is a pretty ideal lynch for scum as he's actually a good player) and change it to ThAdmiral?

Because scum do random shit sometimes to look town? Mastin, aptil, and Snork all did the same shit. It doesnt make any of them town.

So to summarize post 2101:
OMG AP why did you selectively post a funny gif to Nero and not me. Im caught up. Ok, Here is a listing of everyone in the game, with no provided reasoning for reads. A+ posting.

Like, seriously - if you think bad cases being pushed against someone makes them town I should be among your top townreads.

Thad, did you go back and look up the people voting you or did you remember that all off the top of your head?

In all seriousness I guess the case for town-thad is that no one has been able to really quantify why they think I'm scum, or if they have reasons they are weak/invalid

So... scum caught for the wrong reasons?

Mmmm, not seeing that here? This feels more like indignant town to me. I have a slight concern about this Thad post though (stay tuned).

[AngryPidgeon]

I also do have some pretty solid reads to the tune of 3 town and 2 scum

"to the tune of"..? IDK Yates, THIS feels like scum upset at being called out for the wrong reasons. This defense is awkward and feels overdone...I mean wow all he has to do is point out that he has reads, the snark behind it feels fake.

And seriously if the case against me is that one of the 2 people off the scum wagon HAS to be scum because fucking RachMarie the paragon of scum hunters said so and pisskop was lurky which is waaaaay worse than mastin being V/LA all of day 1 (because we were the only 2 people not on a wagon, and theres LITERALLY ZERO chance of one of us not being scum), so it has so be him even though he wasnt around during the time period that the lynch was occuring...

So is RM town or scum? This deflection onto mastin also feels like...a deflection onto mastin. Especially since mastin wsa in the same position ... lurking like pisskop... the defense really looks like an attempt to make mastin look bad instead.

I don't like TWIE's latest post...

I'd hug you but you are voting me.

[Egg]

Prodded. I'm coming back early from V/LA just because I'm working 16 hour shifts the next two days and won't be able to post when I said I would.

4n, reads on penguin and Deas

after Roger's replace I decided to give that slot a clean slate and not let my own biases affect it. So far I haven't seen anything scummy from penguin and actually like the tone in her posts.

Deas is The whole agreeing with his own scum-meta of "being overexplanatory, dotting-Is-crossing-Ts" and then proceeding to play that way has thrown me through a loop. I can't decide if his content is just pretending to be pro-town or actually town-motivated. Either way I want to see how his play continues.

So Penguin is a non-read because your previous read on the slot is considered a "bias" to you? No. If Roger was scummy, that's scum points against the slot. And there's no reason for Deas to be a non-read. I don't like this response.

I don't care fpr projectmatt's lack of scumreads.

What are you looking to get out of this?

I wanna know if my scum reads make sense to those that have been in the game a while.

LOLnope. Just an odd entry.

Why?

Nero, you said the case on Rach was crap and that makes her town. Typically, the logic behind that type of statement is that scum are pushing the case. If this is what you are thinking, who is the scum pushing the case? If not, fill me in. Also, who is the cop clear?

hmm? talk to me. You've seen my scumgame, so what's up?

nah but I tend to make playstyle changes between games so I can see where that's coming from

^The second statement makes the first look intentionally misleading.

Egg (As I think someone else mentioned, I believe Bipolar would have been super into the game after pulling off the daykill thing successfully, whereas his subsequent posting and replace-out matches up more imo with town struggling to keep up with the game. Egg has been good so far too

1. What daykill thing?
2. What have I done that is "good"? I made a few "let's try to get into the game" posts and then went V/LA for the weekend. This doesn't feel like a genuine read.

Unvote, Vote 4nxiety

[Egg]

Neither AngryPidgeon nor aptil nor Egg have posted for over 48 hours and none of them has arranged a V/LA. They have all therefore been prodded.

V/LA for the weekend. I'll respond to everything since my last post on Monday night or Tuesday morning.

[AngryPidgeon]

1. I think his suspicion of Talah is forced, highlighted by his use of OMGUS as a reason why talah was scummy.
2. I feel that his interaction with me in 440 is quite telling. Obviously he agreed with me about a few things and also had a townread on me at the time. The problem then, is how he reacts to me later in the day when I more forcefully townread talah. The leap from at least having some respect for me as a player in 440 to assuming that I'm 'less than sensible' when it comes to talah and less likely town too is one that I don't think would be made to that extent as town (I'd expect the change here to be more gradual and less certain). So, either the comments in 440 were specifically tailored to improve my opinion of AP and not genuine (scum), or the unrelenting scumread on talah and complete dismissal of my opinion + subsequent suspicion was forced (scum).
Also, such unwillingness to reconsider his scumread on talah also is scummy when you consider how easily he reconsidered other reads such as the townread on me (showing that he is not particularly prone to confirmation bias).
3. 1409 seems to come right about the time that he's decided not to townread me anymore. How convenient! Never mind that what he's accusing me of is completely ridiculous (my townlist had one less player with the players taken off being completely reasonable choices if he actually cared to investigate) and hopping onto Luca was obviously the right move if I wanted to prevent a talah lynch, so I feel like it's scum trying to build up a scumread on me there. I don't think he ever addressed these problems when I brought them up either.
4. The last bit of 1482 is trying too hard to discredit my opinion.

1. Ok? Not sure what to say if you want to call my multiple dozens of posts about Talah all forced. Talah pinged me from the get-go with his mastin pressure and continued to post things that looked bad to me. I normally waffle about reads, but Talah never posted anything that looked town to me that made me extremely paranoid. The mastin pressure over meta just to declare meta is useless, townread everyone in the game other than lurkers and backpedal on mastin being obvious scum was scummy. Talah then did fuck-all towards scumhunting people other than asking me pointless questions and QQ that Rogers was posting about him as an excuse.

2. Yes, I was obsessed with Talah yesterday, I don't deny it. 440 is like actually THE most uninteresting post and I don't even remotely see what you are taking out of this. I was frustrated as fuck about people throwing towncred at Bipolar chemist for snap-claiming VT (anti-town at best, good scum play potentially) and you and Yates were the only people actually backing that up. So yes clearly its scummy of me to give a shit about the fake dayvig and actually be excited when other people are backing my opinion up against the sea of dissent. And I commented on the word "lackluster" because I really dont see people use it that much? You reading into 440 so heavily is preeeeetty bizarre, DV. Its like you ISOd me and found one instance where I was talking to you about different random things I agreed with and noticed that differed from my opinion on your Talah read and are calling me out for an inconsistency on things completely unrelated? Look, I really do have some repsect for you as a player (I say only 'some' cause I haven't played many games with you) but Im really not seeing the natural town DV that I saw in Tintin mafia.

3. "decided not to townread you" uh ya ok man. This is why you don't look town. You take me moving you to "null" meaning I "decided" not to townread you. So you have already decided Im scum and are building a case around me with language to support that. This doesn't look like someone actually trying to get a feel for where Im coming from or trying to get an accurate read on me.

I have to say that while the disappearing townreads on me offer me great amusement, I actually think it's rather silly. Is it because I'm townreading someone you're scumreading? I'm kind of assuming it is because 'less than sensible' opinions is pretty underwhelming!! (and my not-lynching list was only one less than my previous town list with Rach and Snow no longer being in and Nero being the new addition so I'm not sure what the deal is there). It probably doesn't matter though as I've been thinking AP-scum for the last couple of days (I guess the secret's out!). I also am of the opinion that investigative PRs should be able to target whoever they like and believe that telling them who to target is pretty bad but whatever.

I disliked post 1334. Your defense of Talah (not just your read) felt wrong to me. I was thinking at the time it would be a little weird to defend a buddy so hard like that so I never listed you as scum (IIRC?) D1 sense I figured Talah scumflip meant you were probably just derptown. Still the defense reads awkward to me and you spent the entire post talking about how "the accusation against him are pretty underwhelming" without talking about them at all. All you did was quote a previous defense of yours and strawman about how Rogers/Talah were an unlikely team (obviously) and call Talah wonderfully town. I mean, really? And then on top of that we get a "won't lynch list" and no indication of where you'd actually LIKE to lynch and a mostly open end to vote wherever you want. I mean I guess you wanted to lynch Luca but you didn't even talk about him at all.

4. Or you could actually state why you are scumreading me. Which I guess you finally have so awesome! But its not really discrediting when you haven't said anything worth discrediting.

[Yates]

This feels more like indignant town to me.

TBD Point of that statement was to point out it was a poor defense.

THIS feels like scum upset at being called out for the wrong reasons.

That was so obviously grasping at straws that I didn't even bother to comment. Plus, that "reads list" is pretty much the "Town Consensus List." Way to stick your neck out and have an original opinion.

... lurking like pisskop... the defense really looks like an attempt to make mastin look bad instead.

Do I have to be the one to say it? Fine - cognitive dissonance. TWIE's claiming his slot isn't scummy because his predecessor was lurking to the point it got replaced. Okay. Might buy it. But then he says Mastin *is* scum for lurking even though - of the two - MASTIN was the one that posted a V/LA in the game. Frankly, Mastin should probably replace out [I know that probably comes across as cold but she's got more important crap to deal with]. Still, you can't have two conflicting standards when it comes to activity and how it reflects upon someone's alignment.

[AngryPidgeon]

@Damon (and anyone else I guess): Why does SnowStorm as scum stop voting for talah (who is a pretty ideal lynch for scum as he's actually a good player) and change it to ThAdmiral?

a) To encourage another wagon and split up town votes more - causing confusion and small potential for no lynch.
b) talah may well be a good player but equally as long as he was in this game an aura of suspicion would have followed him. Keeping a player who a large number of people are suspicious of in the game for a long time can certainly work for scum later.
c) Hunting for PRs - hoping to induce a flashwagon on ThAd.

Also
d) Didn't want to be on a mislynch wagon on D1?
e) Sometimes scum just do shit because they can, no explicit scum motivation behind it?

Why are you focused on this singular point for Snow, DV? That means that all the people who hopped off the wagon and/or back on are town because its such a silly thing to do so only town would do it? No.

[AngryPidgeon]

I don't care fpr projectmatt's lack of scumreads.

Ya, this is the main issue I have with matt. Kinda stops in and calls a few people town for [reasons] and goes back to lurking.

I wanna know if my scum reads make sense to those that have been in the game a while.

Anxiety, Penguin, DV? I don't think so, his attitude feels town to me. No, Pa posts some things that make me squint but Im pretty sure Rogeres was town. Quite possibly, I want to give him the benefit of the doubt for a little bit and actually have some civil pro-town talk with him, but it looks likely. In that order.

Nero, you said the case on Rach was crap and that makes her town. Typically, the logic behind that type of statement is that scum are pushing the case. If this is what you are thinking, who is the scum pushing the case? If not, fill me in. Also, who is the cop clear?

I don't think Nero believes that though, which is the funny thing. I guess Thad or Snork would be the scum pushing RM although Nero has said multiple times now (correct me if Im mistaken) that thats irrelevant to why RM is town.

1. What daykill thing?

Kill: BipolarChemist

Fuck this noise.

Fair enough. At least I'm just VT, yo. I assume I can post until I'm actually dead? At least that's what I got from the rules.

[AngryPidgeon]

I also do have some pretty solid reads to the tune of 3 town and 2 scum

"to the tune of"..? IDK Yates, THIS feels like scum upset at being called out for the wrong reasons. This defense is awkward and feels overdone...I mean wow all he has to do is point out that he has reads, the snark behind it feels fake.

More on this. TWIE is so proud of his 2 scum and 3 townreads? I mean we are on page 100+ or something of a large normal and he has reads on < 1/3 of the player list, woooo. I dont see why anyone is so proud of that. People should have at least moderate opinions on half the players in the game at this point if not more than that.

[AngryPidgeon]

I mean we are on page 100+ or something

Or apparently we are only on page 86, this game felt longer than that oO. Still though, doesn't change my point at all.

[Yates]

PV all have essentially nothing worth commenting on today.

What's your opinion on PereV? I bring this up only because he is posting elsewhere but not here.

[Nero Cain]

Not posting is not the same as not reading. He was posting for 5 days after his last post here. Are you going to try to tell me that you don't think he even bothered to READ this game while posting in others??

ummm no. He hasn't posted ANYWHERE on this site.

Nero, you said the case on Rach was crap and that makes her town. Typically, the logic behind that type of statement is that scum are pushing the case. If this is what you are thinking, who is the scum pushing the case? If not, fill me in. Also, who is the cop clear?

This is getting WAY more attention than it deserves. Snork is pushing a case that I think is untrue. I think Thad could very easily be scum pushing it. Why on earth would you ask who the cop clear is?

[PeregrineV]

But, let's test you.

Go iso Pisskop.

Tell me what you see.

I see towneffort throughout his posts.

And this comment hit the right notes:

-On 4nxi3ty
He's logical, and I've seen him before, but something about his posts unsettle me. Watching.

I'm not talking feelings. I'm talking content-wise.

[Yates]

Check it

Last post in this game: Tue Mar 18, 5:48pm
Last post on site: Sun Mar 23, 2014 1:39 pm

That's 5 days of activity onsite between Mar 18 and Mar 23 without a contribution here.

[Yates]

To clarify the above - I'm not saying pisskop hasn't site-flaked. He obviously has. I'm saying he game-flaked before he site-flaked. Still, as mentioned above, that has nothing to do with my read. It's just an illustration of why that's a poor defense of the slot.

[Nero Cain]

Im pretty sure at one person everybody (else) considers town is a scummy scummy man.

^^^
that WAS from March 23rd

[Nero Cain]

to clarify, his FIRST post in this game was on March 18th.

[Nero Cain]

Im pretty sure at one person everybody (else) considers town is a scummy scummy man.

^^^
that WAS from March 23rd

this is also his last post on the site.

[Yates]

So it was.