Tales of You (Endgame)

[Breakfast With Sandy]

If anyone reads a single one of my posts this game, make it this one.

Muffin. There is a chance you are town. You were in 169. Does this not look exactly, and I mean EXACTLY like what happened to me in that game.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... &start=400

I am not hard to win arguments against. Because I very often can't back up my actions. My stances sometimes don't make sense, and even when they do, I hardly know why I have the opinions I do.

If you really think it looks more like my tunnel on bulbafenix in 165, I can't help you. Because it doesn't. I actually won that argument because I got to make up nice-sounding reasons.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... &start=200

I can't make those links work properly. But it really is worth bothering to look at them.

All that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to stand by and do nothing. It's seeming as though the people who normally prevent me from being a free mislynch are not interested. This bothers me, but whatever. Scum appear to have figured this out. Without them I'm little better than 2008 consistent day 1 lynch cephrir. Maybe it's not the people I think it is, but they will be on this wagon. That's not a threat, it's a promise.

I feel like the gang up on me here feels exactly like 169, and I think the people I'm fighting with are going to turn out to be scum again. Please actually think about this and make this the one time you all don't completely ignore someone posthumously if I am indeed lynched today. That is all.

This is town as fuck.

[Just Sheep Us]

AP, you realize I didn't state a town read on you until after mastin/RBD started pushing you on your entrance, right?

[CarbonFiber]

ffery, where are you and Beli at with your scumreads?

~ F-16

[MastinSSK]

But all you did was giving me a half-assed answer with basically "but this AP here though"

Well, yes.

Your post doesn't seem so much like a reach-out more than "sheep me" because you haven't left any room for refining our reads or admitting you could be wrong based on me having contradicting reads.

You're not right nor not wrong; it's a little bit of both. It

is

a reach-out, to bridge the rift between us. It is

also

an attempt to get players sheeping me, since I need sheep in order to actually get a scum lynch. Yet it's also not a "sheep me", because I'm not asking for players to vote for Fox/Hound specifically, even though I strongly lean that way. I'm asking for feedback on all my scumspects, 'specially since I think that one of the big three (no more, though admittedly POSSIBLY less) is actually town.

How about you start with explaining your scumread on Fox and the Hound?

Conveniently enough, Xenogears just ended last night. Cephrir was the only scumbag that I was able to reliably read as scum. ONLY scumbag. And he was also? The second-most-obvtown scum player, behind mollie. Maybe even moreso. He didn't get lynched; he got nightkilled by the serial killer, who I'm not certain was aiming for scum. (I'll have to ask Aegor that.) It's a lot of reading, but this isn't something you'll understand by reading my iso and then Cephrir's iso. This is something you need the context in order to be able to understand. But simply put...

It's exactly as I described in here. Cephrir is one of THE best players at knowing his own scumplay and tailoring his play in the current game to avoid getting caught by the players he thinks matter. (For instance? Far more important to fool ffery than it is to fool me, at least as far as Cephrir is concerned. Far more important to fool Nacho than me. Because Cephrir knows them and fears them, whereas he has little to none of me.) He can never get universally townread; the tactics he uses to dodge suspicion from one party paint him in bad light to another. But through this tailored play, he is able to get FAR too many townreads and dodge way too many bullets.

This is why I don't read Cephrir off of past games. I read him off the current game. And I don't read the literal content. His literal content looks town. It always does. It did in Xenogears, too. I read the words behind the words, the mindset of the content, and from that I generate my read. I can see him posting things that are meant to look good and sound like they could be genuine, but they also come off as being flat and intentionally-invoked.

All-in-all, Cephrir is the type of player who you have to look at the reasoning, not the wording. And his reasoning here is basically the same thing that I used to catch him in Xenogears. He's doing things that he really shouldn't be doing if he was town. Among them, his push on me. Because in Xenogears, he knew I was town and that I wasn't giving reasoning, yet he brought it up in this game as if he had never encountered it before.

DV, I admittedly don't have recent experience reading. But I'm treating his half the same way I'm treating Cephrir. I'm not caught up in the past about DV. I'm focusing on reading him in the present...in which, he still looks like scum.

Do you feel that it is fake here?

Maybe. (See below.)

Let's assume you are town. In that scenario, let's say Rancid is also town. I'm actually more convinced 3Dice/AP could be scum and that's a push I can get behind.

Bluntly, AP's the alternative lynch to Fox/Hound today. There's an outside chance of a Sheep Us lynch, but I think that's overall sub-optimal. (See below.)

Correction: Just Sheep Us, AP, and Fox/Hound are all defending one another in one form or another.

One of the main problems I have with a scumteam of The Big Three here is exactly that, by the way. For all three to be scum, they'd have to be stealing a play out of MY handbook.

Admittedly, not impossible especially given AP. But their interactions don't look like all-scum. It looks like two of them are scum, yes. But while not impossible for all three to be scum...I kinda doubt that they are. Seems too easy, too simple. Especially given AP SPECIALIZES in misdirection-with-interactions as scum. (Seriously, that's his strongest scum trait. If I were to assign scum players to have specialties, that would be his. To interact in a way that no town player is able to successfully figure out. Nobody. Not even me. Will ever be able to figure out his scumbuddies off of his interactions, and often not off of interactions to him in games with daychat. It's what he does best.)

And of the three...I'm scumreading Cephrir, and I'm scumreading AP. I'm not actually scumreading Sheep Us, so much as it is that I'm merely hoping for their sakes that they're scum and not just bad-town. (Again.) I'm preeeeeeeeeeeeetty much going to lynch all three of them

anyway

, just as a precaution, but I don't think that they're all scum. Just mostly scum.

[Just Sheep Us]

Oh, you're a gladiator?

VOTE: RBD

Why is this a reason for a vote?

-b

RBD's scummy as and on a role that should always be PL'd.

That's like, 100% more reasons than just being scummy.

[AngryPidgeon]

AP, you realize I didn't state a town read on you until after mastin/RBD started pushing you on your entrance, right?

Well mastin started pushing me instantaneously after I started posting so yes?
The point being is you literally threw townpoints at me for

META

because I ctrl c + v'd words that I made in a game where I was town. Really? I dont care about the timeline, I care about the reasons.

And Desperado? saying "OMG AP thinks hes town and we agreed therefore hes inconsistent in calling us scum" is the stupidest shit I have ever read.

[Just Sheep Us]

No, I'm saying that positionally it makes sense for you to be town opposed to mastin/RBD scum, since they scum-pushed you on your entrance.

[Just Sheep Us]

To use a more jargon-y way of saying it:

I threw town points at you on a negative associative tell with two people I think are likely scum.

[MastinSSK]

Point of regard, I'd rather not be gladiated?

Well, yes, but this is true alignment-regardless.

I'm going to be blunt.

Today, we're lynching one of {Just Sheep Us, The Fox and The Hound, AngryPidgeon}.
RBD is going to gladiate one of the two survivors.

There's no other way the days will go.

So you wanna live?
Bluntly, fullclaim now.
Not later.

Now.

Let's face it, no matter what your role is, it's not going to do any good to the town if you get lynched. IF you're town, scum using their abilities (maybe including a nightkill) on you could only be protown, since they're using their abilities to interfere with a scummy player rather than on a more town player. So to be frank. You need to fullclaim. Immediately. You know my logic is true. And quite frankly, I'm going to take it as a scumtell for you to refuse. No "just trust me" will work, here. There's no sweet-talking you can do. No role you can possess. That would save you.

[AngryPidgeon]

HEY MUFFIN.

AP USED THAT EXACT ENTRANCE, NEARLY VERBATIM, IN A GAME WHERE HE WAS TOWN. AND WHERE MASTIN WAS SCUM AND PUSHED HIM FOR IT.

SO TELL ME MORE ABOUT HOW IT'S "NOT A TOWN ENTRANCE"

Ok, I looked back and I may have misunderstood this post. I read this as you calling my entrance town because I did it in AG. In hindsight, it looks like you are arguing to RBD that its at worst null here.

Can you explain the RBD scumread to me, Im really not seeing them as scum here.

[AngryPidgeon]

So you wanna live?
Bluntly, fullclaim now.
Not later.

Now.

Blow me.

[AngryPidgeon]

Im not going to full claim just because its on the mastin agenda, mastin. You and RBD may be on the right track this game, but you're pretty fucking wrong about me/my-slot and Im not going to game throw and be anti-town just because the two of you happen to be aggressively misreading me.

Your demands are dumb and I fully expect a "OMG this is a scumclaim". You really need to stop making demands of me, please. I'll claim when I damn well please and not a second sooner.

[Just Sheep Us]

RBD scumread is because they've been buddying the fuck out of mastin at every juncture, even when she's making pushes that are terribad (like the early tammy push, the CF push, etc).

I have a physical drawing up through page 24 of positional stuff, and the core of the game early on was very much mastin/tammy/f-16 once he moved in. Fox/Hound buddied behind Tammy, and RBD buddied behind mastin. This led me to strongly think that 1, maybe 2 people in that core group are scum. Fox/Hound and RBD make the most sense given how the attacking/defending/chainsawing mapped out.

Fast forward to your entrance, and with mastin/RBD pushing something on you as scummy that's objectively null, ESPECIALLY given that you're probably the trolliest "strong" player on site, and yeah, I'm not gonna let that shit slide.

[Just Sheep Us]

Okay I actually have to finish that paper that's due in about an hour now because I was too angry at mastin/muffin to finish it last night.

[AngryPidgeon]

Gonna be honest, as much as I want to believe BRO is right about me, I really think hes going for townpoints with this gladiator push. I think he thinks its expected of him? Or hes just trying to get me on his side? BRO is an objectively good player and pushing gladiators because you got gladiated by scum once is not objectively good play.

what fucking townpoints are available for pushing a gladiator claim like 2 weeks after they claimed it when the slot has had less than zero pressure on it?

Im out on a limb a little bit, but I really dont see your push being from town. Desperado showed up to assert that you are just bitter about AG which was pretty clear and goes without saying. I just cant shake that the push is meant to look sensible but isnt?

[Just Sheep Us]

@ ap: i just don't understand your thought process. you expected people to see you were obvious town, but you townread two players who scumread you for it and calling bro bad for saying you're town (even though this is what you expected?).

you still didn't answer the question btw. what were you expecting a town response to be to your entrance? because your actions since indicate that a town response would be to scumread you for posts you claimed made you obvtown and i mean maybe i'm just crazy but that doesn't make any fucking sense.

@ mastin: hahahahahahahahahahahaha

[MastinSSK]

There are players with townreads on us. She'll probably need their help if she wants us lynched!

Yep, which is precisely why I talked to every single player I could think of possibly being any help on the matter at all, who wasn't already there. (That said, should probably write appeals to bork/Nacho to help me write more convincing cases. Don't really need to ask zMuff/Nati, since we're a 4p hydra at this point and they already know.)

Not interested.

1: Just you, or the entire hydra?
2: Why not?
3: How 'bout AP? Any interest there?

(Side-note, but I just now realized that Titan's new avatar is Prometheus. That took me way longer than it should've to get.)

[MastinSSK]

If you're town, I would like you to iso me again, try to be just a teensy bit objective, and tell me you still think I'm scum, and why would be appreciated but is optional.

The problem is, this is exactly the thing you specialize in doing as scum.

I don't understand how you can even think that I should clearly think Mastin is town, because they've given me basically no reason to at all and plenty to think the opposite, ie pushing for an easy mislynch on me like it's literally a stronger conviction than most people's religions and still can't even pretend to have a reason excpet "this is soooooooooooooo scum" as though having a sufficient number of vowels in a word makes it extra convincing.

You're an easy mislynch, you think you're obvtown. Choose one; you can't have both.

[AngryPidgeon]

Yeah?

I haven't played with you in like a year but I don't remember your MO to be "threadshit the fuck out of your entrance on replace in"

Is that seriously the only comment you have to make about my entrance into the game?

Not curious why Im voting you?

No comment on mastin walling up the thread with me?

Nothing in your ISO looks extremely town.

There is also something about it that bothers me. A lot. When did you make your hydra QT for this game?

[Cephrir]

How about you start with explaining your scumread on Fox and the Hound?

Conveniently enough, Xenogears just ended last night. Cephrir was the only scumbag that I was able to reliably read as scum. ONLY scumbag. And he was also? The second-most-obvtown scum player, behind mollie. Maybe even moreso. He didn't get lynched; he got nightkilled by the serial killer, who I'm not certain was aiming for scum. (I'll have to ask Aegor that.) It's a lot of reading, but this isn't something you'll understand by reading my iso and then Cephrir's iso. This is something you need the context in order to be able to understand. But simply put...

He was aiming for scum. See dead QT. Because he was an idiot.

This is why I don't read Cephrir off of past games. I read him off the current game. And I don't read the literal content. His literal content looks town. It always does. It did in Xenogears, too. I read the words behind the words, the mindset of the content, and from that I generate my read. I can see him posting things that are meant to look good and sound like they could be genuine, but they also come off as being flat and intentionally-invoked.

This doesn't mean anything. What the hell is wrong with my mindset.

All-in-all, Cephrir is the type of player who you have to look at the reasoning, not the wording. And his reasoning here is basically the same thing that I used to catch him in Xenogears. He's doing things that he really shouldn't be doing if he was town. Among them, his push on me. Because in Xenogears, he knew I was town and that I wasn't giving reasoning, yet he brought it up in this game as if he had never encountered it before.

"I don't read Cephrir off past games but let me tell you about Xenogears". Lol.

But, actually, I would love to talk about Xenogears, because I've been treading on fucking eggshells trying not to. Why do you think I was trying not to jump down your throat this game, it's because at first I thought you felt the same way you did in that game (i.e. "damn I see absolutely no way this can possibly be town"). I've been trying to play it off like I have substantial meta with you apart from that game but I actually pretty much don't. Anything I've claimed to know about the way you play has basically been that. You may notice that I won the argument there and came reasonably close to getting you lynched. I also scumread you in that game because I literally knew I would be jumping down your throat if I was town. And hey guess what, here I am. I know there are style issues muddying things here and I don't even give a fuck. I'm done trying to convince myself to hold back because you literally could not be scummier. For someone so concerned with how good I am at imitating my town game you sure don't seem to be considering that I was doing exactly that in Xenogears. Yet another thing that bothers me is that you would approach me in exactly the same way you did that game, with random ass scumreads. Of course I'm going to blow up on you. I really fucking hate baseless reads. It's ridiculous that you think that means anything.

DV, I admittedly don't have recent experience reading. But I'm treating his half the same way I'm treating Cephrir. I'm not caught up in the past about DV. I'm focusing on reading him in the present...in which, he still looks like scum.

He absolutely bloody well does not.

[The Fox and the Hound]

How about you start with explaining your scumread on Fox and the Hound?

Conveniently enough, Xenogears just ended last night. Cephrir was the only scumbag that I was able to reliably read as scum. ONLY scumbag. And he was also? The second-most-obvtown scum player, behind mollie. Maybe even moreso. He didn't get lynched; he got nightkilled by the serial killer, who I'm not certain was aiming for scum. (I'll have to ask Aegor that.) It's a lot of reading, but this isn't something you'll understand by reading my iso and then Cephrir's iso. This is something you need the context in order to be able to understand. But simply put...

He was aiming for scum. See dead QT. Because he was an idiot.

This is why I don't read Cephrir off of past games. I read him off the current game. And I don't read the literal content. His literal content looks town. It always does. It did in Xenogears, too. I read the words behind the words, the mindset of the content, and from that I generate my read. I can see him posting things that are meant to look good and sound like they could be genuine, but they also come off as being flat and intentionally-invoked.

This doesn't mean anything. What the hell is wrong with my mindset.

All-in-all, Cephrir is the type of player who you have to look at the reasoning, not the wording. And his reasoning here is basically the same thing that I used to catch him in Xenogears. He's doing things that he really shouldn't be doing if he was town. Among them, his push on me. Because in Xenogears, he knew I was town and that I wasn't giving reasoning, yet he brought it up in this game as if he had never encountered it before.

"I don't read Cephrir off past games but let me tell you about Xenogears". Lol.

But, actually, I would love to talk about Xenogears, because I've been treading on fucking eggshells trying not to. Why do you think I was trying not to jump down your throat this game, it's because at first I thought you felt the same way you did in that game (i.e. "damn I see absolutely no way this can possibly be town"). I've been trying to play it off like I have substantial meta with you apart from that game but I actually pretty much don't. Anything I've claimed to know about the way you play has basically been that. You may notice that I won the argument there and came reasonably close to getting you lynched. I also scumread you in that game because I literally knew I would be jumping down your throat if I was town. And hey guess what, here I am. I know there are style issues muddying things here and I don't even give a fuck. I'm done trying to convince myself to hold back because you literally could not be scummier. For someone so concerned with how good I am at imitating my town game you sure don't seem to be considering that I was doing exactly that in Xenogears. Yet another thing that bothers me is that you would approach me in exactly the same way you did that game, with random ass scumreads. Of course I'm going to blow up on you. I really fucking hate baseless reads. It's ridiculous that you think that means anything.

DV, I admittedly don't have recent experience reading. But I'm treating his half the same way I'm treating Cephrir. I'm not caught up in the past about DV. I'm focusing on reading him in the present...in which, he still looks like scum.

He absolutely bloody well does not.

[AngryPidgeon]

@ ap: i just don't understand your thought process. you expected people to see you were obvious town, but you townread two players who scumread you for it and calling bro bad for saying you're town (even though this is what you expected?).

I always think that Im obviously town, even when scum (although Im more likely to declare myself obvtown as town).

Im not focusing on people's reads on me as a basis for my reads because Im not shit at this game. Mastin is town because mastins push on me is borderline insane and way too overdone to be likely from scum. She knows she cant elude me forver when scum, so she rarely pushes me as scum, CERTAINLY not in 1v1 tunnel mode where Im way more likely to get her lynched. RBD is probably town for the hated miller gladiator claim and their tone/attitude/presence is just ridiculously town. I could point to some specific instances and wall about it, but they are just town. Everything about them is troll-y but determined, annoyed but spirited. If they are scum . I mean I guess they -could- be, I'd have to bow down to muffin for being the most unreadable scumbutt to ever scum the 7 seas.

[AngryPidgeon]

This is town as fuck.

Ya, Im in this camp. Ceph's frustration has been acting like a kicked puppy for the last few pages, but I'm pretty sure its a Town aligned kicked puppy.

[The Fox and the Hound]

If you're town, I would like you to iso me again, try to be just a teensy bit objective, and tell me you still think I'm scum, and why would be appreciated but is optional.

The problem is, this is exactly the thing you specialize in doing as scum.

I don't understand how you can even think that I should clearly think Mastin is town, because they've given me basically no reason to at all and plenty to think the opposite, ie pushing for an easy mislynch on me like it's literally a stronger conviction than most people's religions and still can't even pretend to have a reason excpet "this is soooooooooooooo scum" as though having a sufficient number of vowels in a word makes it extra convincing.

You're an easy mislynch, you think you're obvtown. Choose one; you can't have both.

No.
As a player I am an easy mislynch.
I am becoming pretty town here to anyone who is paying attention, but evidently nobody is.

So you wanna live?
Bluntly, fullclaim now.
Not later.

Now.

Blow me.

^

You are not in charge. You are not even town. Oh but please tell me more about how arrogant you aren't, this whole post. Really, I'm interested.

[Kagura]

Is that seriously the only comment you have to make about my entrance into the game?

Not curious why Im voting you?

No comment on mastin walling up the thread with me?

Nothing in your ISO looks extremely town.

There is also something about it that bothers me. A lot. When did you make your hydra QT for this game?

1) You deliberately engaged me without asking a question. I am engaging you back without answering a question you didn't ask.
2) Of course I'm curious. In what world would I not be curious? Is it alignment indicative not to be curious?
3) To be honest, I didn't read most of it and I don't really want to. Do you want me to go back and read something specific? Because I am willing to do that.
4) That's pretty much the weakest 'I'm warming up to scumreading you' sentence I've ever read.
5) I made my hydra QT for the legend of zelda game on 9/26/13, and Nacho decided to repurpose it for this one. I did not make one for this game. Where are you going with this, exactly?

-b