Tales of You (Endgame)

[AngryPidgeon]

So I reallllly need to get shit done at work today (and most of this week since Im behind and flying out of town for easter) so note Im going to be a little swamped until sunday and then V/LA after that for easter week. Going to see my BF ^^. So I'll be around - I dont think I'll have to declare V/LA, but Im going to be a little less on top of things than usual. Hue.

[AngryPidgeon]

Because BRO's seen my approach to mastin, across multiple games. Even if he wasn't reading Xenosaga, for example, I'm sure you mentioned it to him somewhere (because you were scum reading me for a long time in that game, for much the same reason, but I shrugged it off because I know you haven't seen how I usually approach mastin). BRO on the other hand has no excuse for this. He's seen me, multiple times, read mastin off very few posts (sometimes even a single post) correctly (100% of the time). If BRO is the one trying to push the angle that it's weird for me to "buddy" mastin here, then I'm calling bullshit since it's obviously a fabricated read.

I havent actually talked to BRO about Xenosaga very much. He was just around to look pretty while I loltunneled Kagami and Aegor.

[AngryPidgeon]

So when I say "You can't prove I'm scum", it's something that admittedly is something I've discovered to be among my own sorta-scumtells.

You cant prove that I said that though, .

Seriously though, your interpretation here is really bad. You have yet to provide a singular EVEN GUT reason for explaining your read on me. This is about your read on me, not me defending anything. If I felt you had posted anything worth addressing, I'd address it, even if it were needing to just explain the thought process that went into a post that I made. But you havent given a singular remotely specific reason for suspecting me and that is bullshit. I know you are better than that, so what gives? Its like you are trying to know (ironically) by calling me out on "Cant PROVE that IM scum" but that tell is only valid if there are actual reassons being proposed for me being scum in the first place, which there arent. At least not from you. LB has done more towards justifying their vote on me than you have. You know who IS guilty of the heinous "Cant prove Im scum?"

Wait for it. dont spoil it. Dont spoil it. Guess.:

Oh the correct answer is:

Spoiler:

I know why Bork hasn't posted anything town

It's cause I'm posting it in my six QTs or whatever the fuck, right?

-b

(see: nitpicky attacks on bork for QT shit seems far more like scum throwing things at a wall to see what sticks as opposed to genuine AP paranoia).

[AngryPidgeon]

know

now*

[Kagura]

in spite of how I feel like I should be paranoia-reading you right now

I seriously have no idea why you think this and I would really like to clear this up.

-b

[PeregrineV]

2 The Fox and the Hound (cephrir and DV)

Coincidentally enough, that made a nice segway into the next player on the list.

As a warning, there's basically nothing here that I haven't already said. But basically...the main reason they're scum is that they haven't been posting as town. There's a lack of sincerity in their posting, especially in their shallow scumhunting. Their posting is manipulative rather than analytical, and they're playing reactively rather than proactively. Additionally, their posting is largely buddying. Know what's really part of the reason they're scum? A lack of provocation. Of safeness in their posting. The closest they come to it is in their dismissive posting, which itself is, well, scummy.

I pulled up their iso, and I'm seeing all of this, quite strongly, throughout their posting, in basically every section of the game. That lack of true, well...effort, for lack of a better word. There's nothing in there that is remarkable. Just stuff meant to look good that vaguely points people in directions that are beneficial to them.

I really can't describe it better than that.

I guess we can do this on all the players, but see 1775. You are making very vague statements that require more work to refute than it takes you to make, very much like making someone prove a negative.

Or, maybe I should say your post was pre-answered. This pre-answer ios an example of why I disagree with this read.

You, not able to explain something? Fancy that. I just wish I could tell whether or not that's because you're making shit up.

[AngryPidgeon]

This game does not look like town PV btw.

Ahh good. Praytell, what does town PV look like?

@AP- Never saw an answer to this.

:/, I think you know and its not something I can just write about without essaying.

But Im not seeing your usual efforts to identify townies and connect/work with them. Im not seeing any attitude that suggest you rolled town (direct, but humorous).

Your reads list pings me wrong in that it looks like something that looks good, but isn't extremely genuine given that there is nothing to back up those stances at the time. And I dont get the Kagura/GIF placement in the list at all. Your explanation about the dichotomy did nothing towards explaining why you felt it in the first place. Also not feeling the tiered-ness of the list in this instance and Im having a really hard time mapping your thoughts to your content which has been a bad sign for you in The Fall.

Basically just nothing you've posted is extremely insightful and it all reads fairly superficial. Dunno.

[Kagura]

Well it was sorta like Xenosaga mastin. I'll be your rock though.

Seriously, what does 'xenosaga mastin' mean to you? 'She had a lot of incorrect reads that game' is the thing that's most sticking out to me about Xenosaga mastin.

I also don't understand why you're like half reaching out and half taking underhanded potshots at me.

-b

[AngryPidgeon]

I guess we can do this on all the players, but see 1775. You are making very vague statements that require more work to refute than it takes you to make, very much like making someone prove a negative.

Or, maybe I should say your post was pre-answered. This pre-answer ios an example of why I disagree with this read.

This is my main issue with mastin right now. All of mastins reads are vague statements with zero backup from the realm of hard-quotes. Its really entirely 100% air. Which is something mastin is capable of as town if I close my eyes and imagine really hard, but its 100% ridiculous and quite easily scum motivated.

[AngryPidgeon]

Seriously, what does 'xenosaga mastin' mean to you? 'She had a lot of incorrect reads that game' is the thing that's most sticking out to me about Xenosaga mastin.

I also don't understand why you're like half reaching out and half taking underhanded potshots at me.

:/, "I'll be your rock" was not a reach out, lol. And yes my point is that mastin is either scum or really REALLY wrong this game. I dont see why mastin is your "rock". Her pushes are all bad and confbias at best, scum motivated at worst. Do you actually like mastins Fox/Hound pressure. Can you name a reason why mastin thinks they are scum off the top of your head?

[PeregrineV]

15 PeregrineV

I'll have to get back on you on this one. Overall feeling at the moment is mehtown, but I need to iso him. More content from PV would be appreciated, though.

At this point I'm thinking that the appreciation will be less than originally intended. But I'll finish reading before I come back to this.

[Kagura]

@bork - I read through your mastintown reasoning. One thing is going round my head - you say mastin as scum is motivated by survivalism rather than working towards a town wincon, and that was why you voted her in Walking Dead. In your Walking Dead post you link, you say mastin exists only in the form of "AD is scum." What differs from mastin there, and mastin here preaching to the choir that AP/Fox are scum, and not really willing to even consider changing her viewpoint?

Because she's also doing shit like going through and posting pretty well thought out reads lists about the entire game in between being tunnelish on scumreads. I really think that is way, way different than walking dead mastin (which I think I've talked about my vote on to the best of my ability)

"Preaching to the choir" is also probably not how I'd put her AP/Fox interactions this game - this implies that either 1) someone else is pushing it harder than she is and she's kinda taking advantage of that or 2) everyone here is in agreement with her already. I also wouldn't say that this label really applies to how she was behaving in walking dead either because literally no one bit on that AD case.

Otherwise tonewise you seem to have a dissenting opinion from mine - I'm all ears.

-b

[Kagura]

:/, "I'll be your rock" was not a reach out, lol.

What was it then? You being a dick or what?

-b

[PeregrineV]

2 The Fox and the Hound (cephrir and DV)

Coincidentally enough, that made a nice segway into the next player on the list.

As a warning, there's basically nothing here that I haven't already said. But basically...the main reason they're scum is that they haven't been posting as town. There's a lack of sincerity in their posting, especially in their shallow scumhunting. Their posting is manipulative rather than analytical, and they're playing reactively rather than proactively. Additionally, their posting is largely buddying. Know what's really part of the reason they're scum? A lack of provocation. Of safeness in their posting. The closest they come to it is in their dismissive posting, which itself is, well, scummy.

I pulled up their iso, and I'm seeing all of this, quite strongly, throughout their posting, in basically every section of the game. That lack of true, well...effort, for lack of a better word. There's nothing in there that is remarkable. Just stuff meant to look good that vaguely points people in directions that are beneficial to them.

I really can't describe it better than that.

DV Analysis:

I felt DV's progression of suspicion on Rancid felt incredibly town. In particular, I liked how he went from having mild concerns in Post 383 towards a full-out case and vote in Post 1165. A lot of the reasoning he provided there also made a ton of sense considering Rancid's reaction of wanting to gladiate BRO and Desp wasn't the strongest. I also liked the additional criticism of Nati's outburst since was misdirected. Even more than the content, the ostentatious tone with which he cast the vote felt incredibly bold and not at all "

safe

" the way Mastin is portraying Fox's posting to be. Regardless of whether you actually agree with DV's reasons, I didn't feel like voting Muffin's slot who is one of the most difficult lynches on the site to be either safe or opportunistic (and no, being hated doesn't make him a significantly easier lynch). I like the reasons DV provided for his vote, I like the timing and I liked the forcefulness with which he presented his case.

Take a look at how he presents his scumreads in his other town and scum games.

SCUM:
NY160B: Welcome to Castle Zar: The timing of his Snowstorm scumread in Post 555 felt off and ill-timed, pushing on reasons that he never commented on before and having no real read-progression. He also wasn't very ostentatious or attention grabbing with the way he pushed the read and it felt a lot more weak and his heart really wasn't in it.

/in-vitational12: His scumread on Penguin who was a likely lynch in Post 334 again came across as sleazy and opportunistic and not at all like he genuinely believed the reasons behind it. It was also somewhat nebulous and the reasons he provided were weak and not concrete at all.

TOWN:
Mini 1472: You can see that the way DV asserts himself is completely different from his scumgames. The reasoning he provides for his push on PurpleLobsta here in Post 249 and the way he presented it was much more solid than any of his scumgames and gives the impression that he genuinely believed what he was saying. His continued push in his later posts also had the same solid backing and confident reasoning and he isn't afraid to put himself in the limelight.

Song Contest Upick: Note in particular his read on T-Bone and it comes across as very natural and the push is strong and the language he uses in Post 1699 feels like he isn't holding anything back. This differs from the often stilted tone in his scumgames where the fact that he doesn't really believe in his reads becomes evident.

Overall, I like the content that the Fox and the Hound have provided. Their positions are relatable and understandable, I can follow most of their reasoning, and the way DV pushes his reads feels a lot more like his pushes as town than scum.

~ F-16

@MastinSSK- Do you see the difference between the two? While the Carbon analysis usefulness is limited at this point, I find the argument easier to follow and more compelling. If the reads where the same, I 'd suspect you were both scum and you were feeding Carbon his posts. As it stands, I think Carbon is town, and I'm trying to decipher you.

[Kagura]

And yes my point is that mastin is either scum or really REALLY wrong this game.

The 'really wrong' possibility seems like a huge afterthought.

-b

[AngryPidgeon]

Cupcake should not be a strong townread for anyone. Meta can go fuck itself.

LOL

How am I scum then?

See, there is pretty strong evidence to support me stating that you haven't read the thread. If you had, you may have known I've not been scumreading you.

Given that you aren't reading the thread, and your content is lacking at best, I dont see how anyone (mastin in particular) is willing to write you off as town for lurking so hard. That is shitty and people reading you as town for lurking should feel shitty.

P-edit: Nothing mastin has done is well thoight out? ITs literally just 100% monologuing about her feelings which is bold to do as scum, but given the complete lack of actual justification for things, Im reading her as far less town than I could be.

p-pedit: Uhhhhh. Ya I guess. You saying that makes no sense. You dont seem to agree with mastin's pushes on FoxHound and you seem less than certain about sheeping mastin onto me, so I dunno why mastin is your "rock" this game unless you are just full of shit.

pppedit: Afterthought? I dont get your point. I KNOW mastin is wrong about me (and being extremely damaging in the process) and I suspect mastin is also aggressively wrong about FoxHound (which you seem to think too apparently?)

[PeregrineV]

So, ffery, given your current read-state, how to you view the narrative of mastin/Titan/RDB/CF/FoxHound/AP/myself based on your reads (i.e., who's doing what in terms of actions?)

hellifino

I'm refining reads on the basis of the interactions, but I don't have an overarching narrative about it. Not yet, anyway.

I've gone back and forth a little with you guys and had you in my scumpile at one point, but have more of a townfeel now that you're interacting.

:/

Why does nobody scum hunt the way I do

Explain how you view the narrative between the 7 players based on your current read-state. Because at this point, none of that makes any sense.

[Kagura]

Do you actually like mastins Fox/Hound pressure. Can you name a reason why mastin thinks they are scum off the top of your head?

Nope, but 1) that's a problem on my end at the moment, and 2) easily rectified by re-reading her posts.
Where are you getting this 'I think x is town' => 'I necessarily agree with x about everything?'

-b

[The Fox and the Hound]

@Breakfast 1769, which I'm not going to bother quoting because it's huge.

First of all, I really like this post, and it's articulating better a lot of things I've been trying to say.

The wall seems a little uncharacteristic of Beli, but I may have seen unfortunate games and/or the hydra may be having an impact. Still definitely a net positive. I'm beginning to like reading hydrae based on the person I'm less familiar with, maybe it's just because I'm lazy.

Most importantly, it describe's PV's style really well and makes me feel bad for any insulting of him as a player that I have definitely done in other games and possibly this one as well. My mild desire to lynch him has diminished a bit (in addition to his posts this past page or so, which I like as well).

~Ceph

[Mac]

[quote"the muffin man"]Well, I'm sure it's going to disappoint you when I tell you that I wasn't actually raging, it was fake rage I was experimenting with because I wanted to see if anyone would town read me for it.

Apparently it worked. So yay me, I guess?[/quote]

You're still town. KUTGW!!!

Not you too, Mac,
You've been led astray!
They're not town, they're scum
Don't turn a blind eye to their play!

Mr Muffin, this we've discussed
I feel that post was town
Just because you can do it as scum
It does not make me frown

Although their play hasn't been great
Some more I need to see
Because their case on you
Just wasn't filled with glee

[AngryPidgeon]

Do you actually like mastins Fox/Hound pressure. Can you name a reason why mastin thinks they are scum off the top of your head?

Nope, but 1) that's a problem on my end at the moment, and 2) easily rectified by re-reading her posts.
Where are you getting this 'I think x is town' => 'I necessarily agree with x about everything?'

-b

Because you called mastin your "ROCK"??? What does that mean then or is it just posting nonsense for the sake of posting nonsense?

No, mastin's reasons for scumreading people are forgettable because they don't exist. All masstin has done is try to pin scummeta on Foxhound and call me scum for ???. Originally I was scummy for playing to AH mafia, then mastin took that back when I called her on it and mentioned another scumgame of mine instead so as not to appear completely silly. Other than that, there is nothing and its bad.

[Kagura]

Because you called mastin your "ROCK"??? What does that mean then or is it just posting nonsense for the sake of posting nonsense?

It means I have a really good townread on her! WOW

Like seriously what the fuck did you think it meant?

-b

[The Fox and the Hound]

Oh, there's a massive wall mostly directed at me that I somehow missed. I'll deal with it later.

[AngryPidgeon]

It means I have a really good townread on her! WOW

Like seriously what the fuck did you think it meant?

That you like her posts? Im not insane... Calling someone a rock and then backing down when I ask you what about mastin you like is pretty sketch.

[Kagura]

What the fuck did I 'back down' on?

-b