Tales of You (Endgame)

[AngryPidgeon]

Alright, so the last few pages have been mot much more than ego stroking and NO Us being flinged around the thread which is hypocritical on many ends and not getting anywhere.

So can we actually discuss COMPROMISE LYNCHES. Instead of whatever the hell is being discussed?

[Just Sheep Us]

I already compromised when I voted mastin.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I plan on being on after 10p your time ffery. Working right now.

Nati says rain check - net issues. He'll be on tomorrow.

[AngryPidgeon]

I already compromised my credibility when I voted mastin.

ftfy

Come on, we just had a moment. Just let us get killed by different scum factions tonight to completely recreate GoW mafia. Even if mastin IS scum, she has buddies. Hint: They ARENT RBD.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

I plan on being on after 10p your time ffery. Working right now.

Nati says rain check - net issues. He'll be on tomorrow.

Damn it.

beli and I will discuss compromises when he's online again.

I need to convince myself that Lord Business should be off the table.

[Clyton]

In regards to Mastin's role and the nature of roleclaiming, we will never know if that role is legitimate to the person unless he/she is dead and the role is revealed to us officially. However, I have strong assumptions that Tammy is town if we analyze the role. It does not help the mafia team at all with the voting restriction. Yes, there is a possibility that the role can be scum-aligned, but I would most likely believe it would be better put on a team of 5, not 4; otherwise, the balance will be off and the mafia will be at a disadvantage. The reason of there being 4 mafia members means that they have top-tier PRs.

As a result of this hypothesis, I was confused as to why CF would even consider the Mastin/AP war as a scum theater, even a bit skeptical of them.

@Just Sheep Us: It is admirable for you to pursue a RBD wagon for valid reasons. However, I want to question your approach. Even if RBD has a 95% chance of flipping scum and Mastin a 90% chance, the chances of getting a wagon on RBD is lower than getting a wagon on Mastin. Naturally, I would advise you to vote for Mastin should I agree with your arguments. Do you believe you can start a wagon for RBD?

Never mind that, I just saw that you are confident in your Mastin vote. But let me clarify what happened very early on the day. RBD was not a rapid dog compared to Mastin attacking Titan. I would say Mastin's attack on Titan was two or threefold over what RBD amounted in regards to Titan. Meanwhile, in the more recent day phase, RBD's attacks on certain people was just as of an equal amount to Mastin's attacks on certain people. I can firmly say that RBD was not relentlessly attacking as you would have thought to believe. But I do see your point: RBD was supporting Mastin in her pushes. Now, whether I can agree with you, that's hard to say.

I want your honest opinion in order to resolve my conflicting views with you. You have been scumreading Mastin. Have you ever townread her as well and see which is the more probable choice?

[MastinSSK]

Naturally, I would advise you to vote for Mastin should I agree with your arguments. Do you believe you can start a wagon for RBD?

For someone seeking clarity of others' opinions, your own seem a bit hard to parse.

From what I can gather, you have me as town and don't have Rancid as scum (but not necessarily as town), but it's really hard to follow your reads, here; mind clarifying them?

You have been scumreading Mastin. Have you ever townread her as well?

Actually, that's a good question. I'd have to figure out our game history. AP's I mostly know instinctively, but BROseidon I haven't memorized.
I remember he townread me in Theatre Mafia...where I was scum.
I remember he townread me in Xenogears...but only

after

my mason softclaim was made known, not before.
He might have townread me in Xenosaga, but I'm a good 95% positive whatever read AFB had on me that game came from the Angry half, not the BRO half.

I remember him scumreading me in Anything Goes (correctly, though again with AP), and I also remember him scumreading me in House Party. We've had one or two other games where he was scum, but that's actually all I can really remember from him.

[CarbonFiber]

CF, I don't remember if you ever said what specific impressions changed when you reread Tammy - what posts you reinterpreted, etc. If it's in your iso could you link it?

I am going to spoiler my response to cut the walls. Feel free to skip if you are not ffery.

Spoiler: ffery

Look, if you are trying to sort me, I'll help you out. I don't really think you understand how I play this game nor are you making an effort to. (Well, I think you are town and are making an effort to read me obviously but you are going about it in a way that isn't going to reveal my alignment.)

I don't make bad or sub-optimal plays as town. I sometimes overlook things that are clearer to me on a re-read. Like the read on Titan. I overlooked it the first time but when I re-read the same information a second time, I found alignment revealing info. I'm happy to explain this and work with you on it even if it means I am doing this for the fourth time in this game if I at least saw some effort from you in moving the game forward as opposed to a complete lack of reaction to my asking how you are reading Rancid as town, and to how you think we can best make use of the rest of this day (which I am surprised you ignored). I probably will end up doing it anyways at some point.

My reaction test in NY169 wasn't objectively useless. I probably won't try it again because it is atypical of my playstyle. And if you really want to know the difference between your town and scum reactions to handling disagreements in reads, you are more evasive as scum, but confrontational as town. That's why I interpreted your refusal to work with me in Micro 252 as you being scum, and the same thing in NY169 as you being town. I guess you could fake it but it ties more into circumstances. It is like you said towards the beginning of this game about Bork. A lot of things can be faked but the entire situation needs to be considered. I can tell why it is difficult for us to work together this game because the pushes I made so far are to some extent reactionary - accusing people based on a conflict I had with them as opposed to doing it in an "unbiased" third party view. I understand your general condescension towards anyone that pushes players in that way and if I played in the way I played in HPCOS for instance, I assume you'd be happy to sync on reads. But play depends on the gamestate and I get reads of varying strengths when I get them.

In any case, the things you are looking for that you believe that I do as town (develop townblocks off of other players reads for instance) are not going to happen because I don't actually do that and those assumptions on your part stem from a fundamental misunderstanding of my playstyle. You mentioned before that you were looking for "parallels" to that here. Problem is, the parallels will be non-existent since they are not part of my playstyle. I already made a post explaining this but if you go hunting to see where I townblocked based on another players reads so you can put me as town, you won't find it because it came out of something you misinterpreted. And like I pointed out, my 5 strongest town reads on NY169 were based almost entirely off of my own reads.

Failing you realizing how to interpret my play, find someone who actually does understand my play or syncs up and works with me smoothly and easily and ask their opinion. Nacho for example is a good candidate for that because he knows my playstyle incredibly well, better than anyone else on this site. Tammy does too and we have a fairly good understanding of how we get our reads and how we can sync. Even Beli probably has a more in-depth understanding of my playstyle from the one game we played together, we worked fairly well together and eliminated three scum in three days for a perfect win.

If you want to read me by yourself, you are going to need a paradigm shift in how you approach my play. You can't excuse my shift on Titan because you apparently think it is an objectively bad play and that you thought something else was objectively bad play in NY169 and therefore I could be town here. The problem being that they aren't objectively bad plays. I told you in NY169 why Casso was scum and you pretty much dismissed it there as well, presumably because you thought they were objectively bad reasons?

I am pretty certain at this point that the model you have for my play is hilariously inaccurate and wrong. Even if you correctly read me as town, it feels more like you are reading me as town for the wrong reasons and co-incidentally got it right. I am not town because I made a play you disagree with. I am town because of the massive amount of content I produced in this game, my activity level (yes, it IS that simple sometimes, I lurk as scum), my genuine and non-stop effort to get this town on track and work with people to secure an optimal lynch. I am town because of how much my actions and analysis help the town, how conscious I've been to reduce the amount of noise in this thread, and how much serious, serious effort I've put into solving this game. That's why I am town. Could I fake it? I am meh as scum but not terrible. I could fake a few things. I could fake a meta-dive. I could fake frustration. I can scum-theater with my buddies. But I just don't have the same drive, the same passion, and the same unwavering determination to win the game.

~ F-16

[The Fox and the Hound]

Apologies to all (especially Ceph), but this week hasn't been a good one for me, and I feel it's affecting my posting in ways that I'm not comfortable with. I'll make sure I'm caught up on things by deadline (worst case is that it's right before deadline though), but I'm not up to doing this right now. Sorry again.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

CF, I don't remember if you ever said what specific impressions changed when you reread Tammy - what posts you reinterpreted, etc. If it's in your iso could you link it?

I am going to spoiler my response to cut the walls. Feel free to skip if you are not ffery.

Spoiler: ffery

Look, if you are trying to sort me, I'll help you out. I don't really think you understand how I play this game nor are you making an effort to. (Well, I think you are town and are making an effort to read me obviously but you are going about it in a way that isn't going to reveal my alignment.)

I don't make bad or sub-optimal plays as town. I sometimes overlook things that are clearer to me on a re-read. Like the read on Titan. I overlooked it the first time but when I re-read the same information a second time, I found alignment revealing info. I'm happy to explain this and work with you on it even if it means I am doing this for the fourth time in this game if I at least saw some effort from you in moving the game forward as opposed to a complete lack of reaction to my asking how you are reading Rancid as town, and to how you think we can best make use of the rest of this day (which I am surprised you ignored). I probably will end up doing it anyways at some point.

My reaction test in NY169 wasn't objectively useless. I probably won't try it again because it is atypical of my playstyle. And if you really want to know the difference between your town and scum reactions to handling disagreements in reads, you are more evasive as scum, but confrontational as town. That's why I interpreted your refusal to work with me in Micro 252 as you being scum, and the same thing in NY169 as you being town. I guess you could fake it but it ties more into circumstances. It is like you said towards the beginning of this game about Bork. A lot of things can be faked but the entire situation needs to be considered. I can tell why it is difficult for us to work together this game because the pushes I made so far are to some extent reactionary - accusing people based on a conflict I had with them as opposed to doing it in an "unbiased" third party view. I understand your general condescension towards anyone that pushes players in that way and if I played in the way I played in HPCOS for instance, I assume you'd be happy to sync on reads. But play depends on the gamestate and I get reads of varying strengths when I get them.

In any case, the things you are looking for that you believe that I do as town (develop townblocks off of other players reads for instance) are not going to happen because I don't actually do that and those assumptions on your part stem from a fundamental misunderstanding of my playstyle. You mentioned before that you were looking for "parallels" to that here. Problem is, the parallels will be non-existent since they are not part of my playstyle. I already made a post explaining this but if you go hunting to see where I townblocked based on another players reads so you can put me as town, you won't find it because it came out of something you misinterpreted. And like I pointed out, my 5 strongest town reads on NY169 were based almost entirely off of my own reads.

Failing you realizing how to interpret my play, find someone who actually does understand my play or syncs up and works with me smoothly and easily and ask their opinion. Nacho for example is a good candidate for that because he knows my playstyle incredibly well, better than anyone else on this site. Tammy does too and we have a fairly good understanding of how we get our reads and how we can sync. Even Beli probably has a more in-depth understanding of my playstyle from the one game we played together, we worked fairly well together and eliminated three scum in three days for a perfect win.

If you want to read me by yourself, you are going to need a paradigm shift in how you approach my play. You can't excuse my shift on Titan because you apparently think it is an objectively bad play and that you thought something else was objectively bad play in NY169 and therefore I could be town here. The problem being that they aren't objectively bad plays. I told you in NY169 why Casso was scum and you pretty much dismissed it there as well, presumably because you thought they were objectively bad reasons?

I am pretty certain at this point that the model you have for my play is hilariously inaccurate and wrong. Even if you correctly read me as town, it feels more like you are reading me as town for the wrong reasons and co-incidentally got it right. I am not town because I made a play you disagree with. I am town because of the massive amount of content I produced in this game, my activity level (yes, it IS that simple sometimes, I lurk as scum), my genuine and non-stop effort to get this town on track and work with people to secure an optimal lynch. I am town because of how much my actions and analysis help the town, how conscious I've been to reduce the amount of noise in this thread, and how much serious, serious effort I've put into solving this game. That's why I am town. Could I fake it? I am meh as scum but not terrible. I could fake a few things. I could fake a meta-dive. I could fake frustration. I can scum-theater with my buddies. But I just don't have the same drive, the same passion, and the same unwavering determination to win the game.

~ F-16

Ok.

I've been digging at you to explain that period of the game a little better because I think it's critical to how people are reading you and better from the horse's mouth. Not to form my own read.

RDB have worked their way around to townreading Titan. It's a trajectory that made sense to me, particularly given the too many heads game and what I remember of Nati's reactions to Tammy's play in ny 169.

Your trajectory on Tammy was subtle. The only part of it that really bothered me at the time was that from your explanation in 256 you didn't seem to see Tammy's post 56 in the context of Vesperia, or at least not to put enough weight that game's effect, if you thought the post was aggressive. You spectated the game and followed it pretty closely from what I saw of the spectator qt, so I assumed it would be pretty obvious.

My RDB read is tone/timing based, and Nati's appeal to me today is not something I see him doing as scum. I'll try to explain it better tomorrow.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

bork, talk to me about your and Nacho's reads?

[Mac]

Okay, let me know when discussions begin.

reads list?

Supertown

RBD
Titan
Breakfast With Stalin
Kagura

Town

Clyton
RG
orcinus? would like your opinion on this

Fucked if I know

Mastin
AP
Just Sheep Us

Lol, who?

LordBusiness
Cupcake

Scumreads

CarbonFiber
Fox and the Hound

P5
Yukari

--

I mean, Yukari is the only flatout scumread I have thanks to GiF's complete, flatout disengagement with the thread. CF is pretty much gut since I can't really tell either way whether his posting is sincere or not, and the Fox and the Hound is based on RBD's read.

I guess if you go that way, I should be townreading mastin and to an extent, I am, but there's just

SO MUCH FUCKING NOISE

that I don't know what to think anymore. I threw P5 in with the scumpile but to be honest, I could've stuck in the "lol, who?" pile too because he comes and he goes at his convenience. LordBusiness is a strange one - after campaigning most of the day for more game reads and less meta, there's alot of gameplay cropping up and he's practically no where to be seen.

I'd like AP and Mastin to just shut up, articulate their cases against each other in nice bullet points and then go their seperate ways because I can't be the only one whose heart drops when 10 pages of new content is literally them having CAPS LOCK PARTIES and shouting "HE'S SCUM, NO, SHE'S SCUM!"

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Town

orcinus? would like your opinion on this

saving for future reference

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Mac, you're back to scum on fox and hound?

[Mac]

is that just in case the mod decides to delete the post? what kind of future reference?

pedit - I think RBD's points somewhere in the megawall were good, but it is pretty much their read I'm willing to go with.

They're in the do not touch category today at least

[Mac]

If I had to pick scum out of the AP/Mastin shitstorm that's been brewing, it would more than likely be AP. He came into this game and was pounced upon by mastin, and was immediately pretty much "yeah, you're town mastin, but wrong." Now since the tides have slowly been turning against mastin, he's shifted his opinion to suit with it and something about his trajectory (/ffery) feels very off.

Like early doors, mastin was yelling about AP being scum. And I don't think all that much has changed between mastin then and mastin now.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

When I think about GiF's depth of lurk, I worry. But, I have a hard time faulting anyone for not wanting to touch this thread the last couple of days.

[Mac]

If MastinSSK flips scum, I think you should at least re-evaluate Rancid on D2 given his interactions with MastinSSK.

And WHEN I flip town...

...You do what?

(I actually did have a thought when driving. Of maybe-he's-actually-scum. But I told myself, "Screw it. Right, wrong, doesn't matter. Stick with the townread anyway.)

Yo, what?

[Mac]

@AP: earlier you said that Mastin is clearly Town, but due to recent developments, you are inclined to believe she is scum based on her behavior and actions towards you. Let me ask: is she your strongest scumread and therefore, you are voting her based on that? (Also, is this scum level stronger than she is town level?) Or do you just want to lynch her because she is the "weakest link" to the town and that there is no other viable scummy options at the moment?

No, I think Kagura is probably my favorite pick for scum right now. A side of Carbon and PV. Id probably rather lynch any of these 3 than mastin, but Ive long since given up on wagoning CF and Kagura. Mastin seems determined to accuse me of bussing PV and then not actually do anything when I suggest we wagon PV, so ya. Mastin is a fine place to vote unless people want to lynch my other picks.

Y u no lynch RBD with me

reads that would be relatively easy become conflicted messes when players I kinda think are town scumread each other so doggedly.

why do you think RBD is scum?

and ask desp if he thinks scum-nati would spend the Song uPick trust card today.

This read really shouldn't be that hard.

They've done nothing all game but make or support shit pushes. From the onset, with mastin attacking Tammy for... no good reason, they were immediately buddied up. There's a quote from Mean Girls that's pretty apt here:



There's also the whole burying the thread in noise thing and the alt-slipping and pretending to be each other to obfuscate who is thinking what, but that's more "icing on the cake" than "needed to demonstrate their scumminess"

This is a pretty fucking shit case against them, and I think you know that. You've had series of shit posts on this page. I mean why wouldn't mastin, who loves herself quite a bit and I'm sure considers herself a very good player, want a role where she can't die other than by lynch?

[Mac]

Vote: CarbonFiber

Refusal to produce a case on RBD might as well have been a scumclaim. It's probably because he doesn't have one.

[CarbonFiber]

I'm about to head to bed. Ffery, I'll get to your post later.

Mac, "so much fucking noise" is sort of the reason I haven't produced a case on RBD. I didn't intend to get them lynched today so what's the point in creating additional noise. You can't have your cake and eat it too. I

could

have produced an unnecessary case to which you might have responded with "so much noise" but pick one. There will not be a noiseless case. Also, do you really think you can be convinced to vote RBD? I don't think you are but I may be mistaken, correct me if I am wrong.

I'll make a case if I intend to get a player lynched. I am still thinking things over on whether I want to push an RBD lynch today.

~ F-16

[Mac]

Why the fuck would I respond with so much noise on a case, when I'm clearly calling the mastin/AP shitstorm the noise? If you argue that that is a case then so fucking help me.

No I won't be convinced in the slightest, but I want to see a case made for why you are scumreading them. It's not hard, is it?

[CarbonFiber]

No I won't be convinced in the slightest

Then I see zero value in making a case. I am not going to make a case for your entertainment.

I make cases to push for lynches.

~ F-16

[Mac]

You can make cases to prove you're not fabricating your read. Which is what I'm sure suspected town would want to do.

[CarbonFiber]

Actually Mac, why are you so hung up on making a case to the point where you take the lack of one as a scumclaim? You just said that you can't articulate what it is you find scummy about our slot. So, by your logic, I should assume that you have nothing and that it is a scumclaim?

~ F-16