Tales of You (Endgame)

[PeregrineV]

And good if the neighborhood's been outed I can post that I find CF extraordinarily town in it

-b

I noticed than while he mentioned that you were in the neighborhood that he did not mention that he had a town-read on you from it. Why do you think that is?

[AngryPidgeon]

I'm the one who mentioned the mislynch. Bork was focused on the expected-to-channel-Nacho situation PA was in on day 1 and most of day 2.

Ya I get that but he really tried to associate himself with the situation aggressively in response. And I think that was unjustified.

[AngryPidgeon]

Push me. Push PV. Sure. But Rancid's living today.

Mastin? GET IN THE HYDRA QT. Also What is your general policy on Hated claims? I mean if I thought F-16 were town, Id lynch RBD for being Hated over F-16. Fortunately, I can read F-16 correctly so Im not in that position.

[PeregrineV]

Who exactly do you want to lynch today?

Cupcake and Yakuri would be the ones I'd most like to lynch. But that's less from a strong scmread and more frm a lack of townread.

I expect more from you :/

What specifically?

[AngryPidgeon]

Also @ Mastin: RBD is pretty sure about their CF read, do you not give that any weight?

[MastinSSK]

GET IN THE HYDRA QT. Also What is your general policy on Hated claims?

When I get home.

My policy on Hated claims is...there is no policy, they're a nulltownish claim where their handling is case-by-case.

And stop pushing Carbon Fiber. Let that be sorted later.
Keep pushing PV.

[Titan]

Hey AP - is it your stance that hated claims should be lynched day one?

[MastinSSK]

RBD is pretty sure about their CF read, do you not give that any weight?

Some. zMuffinman is a badass scumhunter. Not a scumhunting god. I like his points, really like them. But I'd rather not risk lynching Carbon on D1 if F-16's actually town.

[AngryPidgeon]

Hey AP - is it your stance that hated claims should be lynched day one?

No, I think my take on Hated claims is sort of what I did with Fakegod in AG mafia.

Its more likely town than not... IDK if Id even claim Hated if I were a mafia hated.

Lynching Hated claims is sort of eh? Actually if the game ever gets in evens, then the role shouldnt matter, so its not really anything Id ever just PL on its own.

Also I listed RBD as "Will not lynch Today" so IDK where you got that impression from me >.>

[Titan]

Push me. Push PV. Sure. But Rancid's living today.

Mastin? GET IN THE HYDRA QT. Also What is your general policy on Hated claims? I mean if I thought F-16 were town, Id lynch RBD for being Hated over F-16. Fortunately, I can read F-16 correctly so Im not in that position.

Oh, I thought that's what this meant and was just reading your reaction to fg in ag.

Don't mind me I'm nearly asleep.

[MastinSSK]

IDK if Id even claim Hated if I were a mafia hated.

And lose the towncred? Pfft.
(Also, would cause you to get lynched if people thought they were bringing you to L-1, soyeah.)

[PeregrineV]

Ugh, I am terrible at not letting mafia interfere with rl. I kept my laptop with me in bed last night and kept posting till 5AM in the morning. I have classes and stuff to go to today and I'll re-read the last 5 or so pages tonight in detail.

I don't get why people are seeing both us and RBD as town. I strongly recommend we lynch them. I'm "if they flip town, lynch/vig us" confident.

Because AP once put two millers in a game doesn't mean it happens regularly or that the counterclaim should be dismissed. It is very, very rare.

Muffin claims he is going to flip "Sworddancer, town battleseeker" where I am claiming we will flip as "town replica."

Look at the scum role PMs on the first page. They all contain the word replica. We're a replica because our character is supposed to be one, but is somehow town in this game.

~ F-16

I was already going to vote him based on your original claim, but clarifying it like this means I won't even wait to finish reading.

Vote: Rancid

[MastinSSK]

Okay. PV's just scum.

Rancid, AP, you want F-16 dead today, I get that.

But he can wait.

PV's just a plain simple scumbag.

[AngryPidgeon]

IDK if Id even claim Hated if I were a mafia hated.

And lose the towncred? Pfft.
(Also, would cause you to get lynched if people thought they were bringing you to L-1, soyeah.)

Ehhh, ya I dunno. The main issue is if you get to 3p lylo or something and no one just votes you off the bat, its gonna be #awkward.

Its a claim that people DO like to PL. Youd have to try and get the game at evens maybe so that it wouldnt matter. But ya I dunno.

[AngryPidgeon]

Oh, I thought that's what this meant and was just reading your reaction to fg in ag.

Don't mind me I'm nearly asleep.

I just don't quite understand mastin's policy there. a hated claim is generally something most people are not sad to see go (I think I suggested a compromise on Fakegod at one point in AG) so mastin not letting it affect her never-lynch stance on them is weird to me but Ill get over it.

[CarbonFiber]

So you expect to be alive tomorrow.

Yes. I don't expect to be nk'd. But if in the event that we were, the neighborhood would have outed our role.

Elaborate on "replica." What does that exactly mean you are a town replica?

See the scum role PMs at the beginning of the game. They are all replicas. Our character Luke is one of them and hence we return "replica" to all cops which is basically an elegant way of saying "miller."

f-16, kagura is currently voting PV and you're pretty vehemently against that lynch.

That doesn't appear to have impacted your read of them. But, now I"m very curious about your thoughts regarding Nacho's reasons for thinking PV is scum. As well as curious about the details of his read, but he hasn't been around to discuss them.

Nacho didn't say anything about PV in the neighborhood. When he voted PV, I had no opinion of him. I liked PV's posts that he made after Nacho's vote.

We still thinking both are town.

Beli wonders if lynching one makes sense purely to cut down on the noise going into day 2, and would lynch RBD over F-16 because of the gladiate being more likelly anti-town.

I'd rather not lynch either atm.

Listen to Beli? Look, this isn't an AP game and you know better than I do that AP is a "mindfuck" type of mod who would put two millers in the game to screw with people's heads. You also know better than me that Cabd is much, much more elegant. While his roles are complex, it is highly, highly unlikely he'd just stick two millers into a game.

I get your townread on both of us but think about who else it could be. You seem to have no scumreads. We could find the lurkiest, least town player that we find and lynch them as a deadline compromise or we face the fact that scum are among the more active players. Let's say we lynch Pere or LB. We're back at the same spot tomorrow with RBD and us going at each other. Lynch them, we'll be basically conf-town. There is much more utility in doing this.

Also, F-16 talk to me about your LB read.

The way he initially approached Titan and his direct and forceful tone made me lean town. He faded out a bit which made the read slightly stale. I still think RBD is the better lynch.

Look, I agree with you about LB being probably town and with Beli about PV being town. Scum are most likely Mastin/Rancid/AP/someone else and they are all vehemently arguing against lynching either of us so they can nail down a compromise lynch today and delay this for tomorrow.

~ F-16

[MastinSSK]

Actually.
I just thought of something.

Rancid's role deals with age. (Wouldn't surprise me if it deals with gender, too.)
Carbon's role deals with game.
Both roles are millers.
Cabd game, yeah. So they might have one be town and one be scum yet claims mostly real.

But the claims augment each other.
Not contradict each other.

Similar to the rolecops last game.

I'm not lynching Carbon Fiber today. They're not a townread, but not a scumread, and this is just too much a possibility for me to ignore.
I'm never lynching Rancid. They're my strongest townread, and their role makes a ton of sense.

Lynch me, lynch PV, or no-lynch, goddammit. We're not lynching the millers.

[AngryPidgeon]

Listen to Beli? Look, this isn't an AP game and you know better than I do that AP is a "mindfuck" type of mod who would put two millers in the game to screw with people's heads. You also know better than me that Cabd is much, much more elegant. While his roles are complex, it is highly, highly unlikely he'd just stick two millers into a game.

Yes and Cabd supposedly has an extremely similar reputation. Also I -can- point to another game that had 2 millers in it. Its not a role that you counterclaim. Especially not in a wacky role madness large theme.

[PeregrineV]

Nacho was scum with PV in a recent game we played. Nacho is voting PV iirc. I want to talk with him about that.

For myself, I am aware I have a tendency to see his play as scummy lately regardless of his alignment. I'm cautious about the read.

Which game was that?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=39517

Also, you could talk to me. What part of my play are you seeing as scummy, and why?

your lines of inquiry feel disjoint and lead nowhere and your stances are mush. You come perilously close to fitting the implied criteria of your lynch pool selection.

On a paradoxically town note, overall it feels like you're playing some game parallel to this one because you're usually so far out of phase with current game events. It's hard to describe.

You linked to the last completed game I was scum in.
How does that translate into "tendency to see his play as scummy lately regardless of his alignment"?

Actually, my one query I wanted answered the most was done so. While the answer was less than stellar, it was a very small blip on his overall town play (imo). Otherwise, I don't have very much desire to ask questions about each heads read on each other head. I focus on reasons, of which most are not articulated anyway, and anything else of interest (Rancid's fullclaimed role and refusal to answer more about it).

My stances are not strong as this point, and I'm OK with that.

I catch up as I can, but I play in more than one game, and if I come and see 5 posts since last time, I feel no need to thread-spam.

[Titan]

I'm going to do something I never do. I'm going to go get some caffeine so I can stay awake and try to make sense. I blame you all for my impending tweaking.

[AngryPidgeon]

I chain drink coffee. I shudder to think how many gallons I drink per week.

[MastinSSK]

Scum field day, here.
Regardless of Carbon's alignment.
They're laughing at this fight.

Because it's doing nothing but helping them.

Lynch PV, lynch me, doesn't matter. Those are the options. Not Rancid. Not Carbon.

[CarbonFiber]

I'm only open to lynching Rancid or Mastin. PV's not getting lynched.

~ F-16

[Red Gyarados]

Was that Brian or NotScience?

~ F-16

Just pretend everything from this hydra is going to come from me unless I indicate otherwise (now I know how Muffin felt with his RT hydra).

We are counterclaiming Rancid Broderick Drake as a miller.

Here is our full role claim:

1) Our character name is Luke from Tales of the Abyss.

2) We are a town replica.

3) We return as "replica" to all cops.

4) We also have an ability to set up neighborhoods. Each day, we send the name of a mothership title (like Tales of the Abyss) to Cabd and he sets up a neighborhood for all the people in that title. For instance, we sent him "Tales of the Abyss" today and he set up a neighborhood for us, BRO-Desp, Nacho-Bork, and GIF. (This is the reason why I haven't interacted with Nacho in thread and I figured ffery/others would pick up on it). Based on the interactions in the neighborhood, I am massively confident that BRO and Desp are town.

Okay. So there can't be the existence of two millers in the same game because...?

Also, I'm so jealous of your neighborhood. But what has GiF been up to in there?

Whether or not you believe this was the optimal time to claim is always going to be debatable.

I think you could have claimed the miller part earlier. But in the grand scheme of things, I don't think it would have been any more/less optimal considering what your actual role is.

Except you wouldn't have flipped "miller" (and neither will we) so this doesn't make sense

Wouldn't it be more along the lines of him saying he's going to flip town and town wouldn't have a reason to lie about what their role was? I mean, this is Falcon we're talking about here. Not RC.

*I just now re-realized that my role PM doesn't follow traditional Mafia names. I thought I was just special because of my role/character.

One thing f-16's claim clears up is some of the absolutely crazy-making differences in reads of my townreads.

It just makes me care less about how fucked up I know my reads are.

and I can see all the mod-wifom he's spreading in this game. at some point the plans within plans within plans come to an end, though, and we as players have to decide what we think.

Pretty sure Cabd said something along the lines of "I'm gonna smile every time someone claims." And it's probably that devious twisted smile that looks like .

I really don't think any of the roleclaims mean shit standing on their own.

Kagura is voting me. Doesn't that make it autotown?

You or Nacho?

(Why am *I* the voice of reason? >_<)

Because you usually are? People just don't like to listen to you because they don't trust you.

We're NOT doing a compromise deadline wagon when there is a counterclaim.

What exactly did you counterclaim though? Miller? Not really all that persuasive for me.

[AngryPidgeon]

Stalin, who are you realistically voting for if not PV? Mastin is probstown and I realllly dont get how (beli?) thinks Pv is town. How strong is that read and why?

P-edit: And you stopped caring about me f-16 :<