Tales of You (Endgame)

[MastinSSK]

Votecount 1-22.5

With 17 players alive, it will take 9 votes to lynch or nolynch.

PeregrineV (2): Kagura, AngryPidgeon,

MastinSSK

MastinSSK (3): CupcakePanda, The Fox and the Hound, Yukari Yakumo
Just Sheep Us (2): orcinus_theoriginal, Red Gyarados
AngryPidgeon (2): Lord Business, Rancid Broderick Drake
CarbonFiber (1): Mac
Rancid Broderick Drake (3): CarbonFiber, Just Sheep Us, PeregrineV


Not Voting (3): Titan, Breaskfast with Stalin, Clyton

With 17 players alive, deadline is set for 18 days: (expired on 2014-04-18 00:01:39)

Current votecount. Seriously.

Rancid:

Get yer vote off of AP. He's not getting lynched today, his alignment regardless.

Lord Business:

Deadline's imminent. You need to contribute.

Orcinus and Brian Skies:

Just Sheep Us isn't getting lynched today. You need to be elsewhere.

Mac:

I would much prefer we lynch PV over Carbon.

Clyton:

You need to come in, weigh things, and take a side. Quickly.

Ffery/Beli:

Your vote was better when it was on me. PV or me should be the lynch, especially if you don't want either Rancid or Carbon lynched.

[MastinSSK]

Oh, hey. That got to the top of the page. Totally accidental.

[CarbonFiber]

There are NOT two millers in the game ffs Brian.

~ F-16

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Nacho was scum with PV in a recent game we played. Nacho is voting PV iirc. I want to talk with him about that.

For myself, I am aware I have a tendency to see his play as scummy lately regardless of his alignment. I'm cautious about the read.

Which game was that?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=39517

Also, you could talk to me. What part of my play are you seeing as scummy, and why?

your lines of inquiry feel disjoint and lead nowhere and your stances are mush. You come perilously close to fitting the implied criteria of your lynch pool selection.

On a paradoxically town note, overall it feels like you're playing some game parallel to this one because you're usually so far out of phase with current game events. It's hard to describe.

You linked to the last completed game I was scum in.
How does that translate into "tendency to see his play as scummy lately regardless of his alignment"?

Actually, my one query I wanted answered the most was done so. While the answer was less than stellar, it was a very small blip on his overall town play (imo). Otherwise, I don't have very much desire to ask questions about each heads read on each other head. I focus on reasons, of which most are not articulated anyway, and anything else of interest (Rancid's fullclaimed role and refusal to answer more about it).

My stances are not strong as this point, and I'm OK with that.

I catch up as I can, but I play in more than one game, and if I come and see 5 posts since last time, I feel no need to thread-spam.

I thought you were asking me which game you were scum with Nacho in, which kiiinda seemed odd but w/e.

PV, I can't think of how often I've voted you in games. Really the only game where I thought you looked really, really town was a long time ago - the amnesiac game. I feel like we have a mutual misread problem - see the Walking Dead game where you were certain we-Sangres were scum for a finished-game example.

I'm not sure why you're pushing me about being cautious in reading you and not just binning you in my scumpile like usual, but given our mutual past history it actually kinda pings.

[MastinSSK]

Could I get a paraphrase of the neighbor QT?
I want to get a handle on F-16's trajectory there. (Pardon, ffery.)
Like...I gather he claimed the miller bit in there, but where was it, exactly? And how did he go about it? And how he treated the players he recruited?

I'm seriously thinking this could be townVtown right now.

[CarbonFiber]

Hey Brian,

Vote RBD. If they are not scum by role, they are scum by play.

If they flip town, lynch/vig us.

~ F-16

[CarbonFiber]

Also, RBD is HATED which means we don't want them around in LYLO. Why is everyone hardcore defending a scummy player that should be policy lynched for being hated that just got counterclaimed as a miller?

~ F-16

[MastinSSK]

I'm going to go all anti-town on y'all and pull a grand Mastin gambit.

VOTE: MastinSSK.
(Not like my vote matters, though.)

Do not lynch Rancid.
Do not lynch Carbon Fiber.

Lynch either myself or PeregrineV.
There are no other options for today.

Not one, but TWO players I'm saying never-lynch, AND entering into a 1v1.

[CarbonFiber]

You can die tomorrow after RBD. Also, laying yourself on the line for a hated townie claim is rubbish.

~ F-16

[MastinSSK]

Also, RBD is HATED which means we don't want them around in LYLO. Why is everyone hardcore defending a scummy player that should be policy lynched for being hated that just got counterclaimed as a miller?

Like, I get it.
F-16 looks like scum by play for shit like this.

If he's town, he's seriously off his game.

But I'm seriously thinking he could be.

Maybe he's scum. Maybe. We don't have time today to figure that out, and lynching is too permanent a solution. We'll work it out tomorrow when we have more time.

But right now?
We need a lynch, and it should NOT be on one of the miller claims.

So lynch me, lynch PV, don't care which. It doesn't matter; we're not lynching a miller, goddammit.

[AngryPidgeon]

Oh so f16 believes the hated part of the claim but not the Miller part. V convenient tell me more

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Also, RBD is HATED which means we don't want them around in LYLO. Why is everyone hardcore defending a scummy player that should be policy lynched for being hated that just got counterclaimed as a miller?

~ F-16

F-16, look past the role. Look at the play. And look at other zmuffin town and scum games. You know, that meta stuff you do. Tell me how their play looks like their scumgames. Convince me. I don't think you can, but you absolutely won't convince me on the basis of you both being millers.

Why are you this obsessed about lynching the person you're counterclaiming in a fucking CABD game?

[Clyton]

Vote: CarbonFiber

I am being very cautious regarding CF and RBD and their miller claims. They could augment each other, and there is a chance of being two millers in the game. I do not see the push for an absolute certainty of one miller in this game, and a majority of people will argue with me on that regard. It is no surprise CF is looking at this game differently, and I still have some small reasons that he can be town, although I listed him as scum on my reads list and I will follow my suspicions in hopes that it will be a scum in the end that will be lynched.

While I do not fully see the warrant to lynch PeregrineV, it is a risky matter cause he does not have a lot of scumtell, but as someone mentioned, a lack of towntell that brings an aura of suspicion around him. I will avoid pursuing this lynch as a result.

p-edit: Look, it's a fact we all have divided approaches and conflicted views. I am following my own path. HOWEVER, if the deadline looms near and we are not able to get a lynch on the leading wagon, I will willingly join that wagon to ensure the lynch goes off. Even if this is not the most optimal path to take from my perspective, it is still in the end, the majority's view of our lynch for today. I will be on tomorrow night to see if anything changes and I can adjust accordingly.

AKA Mastin, have some trust in me that I will be there in your's or PV's lynch SHOULD THAT COME as a result of the majority.

[AngryPidgeon]

Why are you this obsessed about lynching the person you're counterclaiming in a fucking CABD game?

BECAUSE THERE IS RED IN HIS ROLE PM. BECAUSEHES NOT ALIGNED WITH THE TOWN. BECAUSE NOTHING HES DONE PAINTS A TOWN PICTURE THIS GAME, CERTAINLY NOT HIS OPINION THAT ME/MASTIN/RBD ARE A TEAM.

[PeregrineV]

Push me. Push PV. Sure. But Rancid's living today.

Mastin? GET IN THE HYDRA QT. Also What is your general policy on Hated claims? I mean if I thought F-16 were town, Id lynch RBD for being Hated over F-16. Fortunately, I can read F-16 correctly so Im not in that position.

This strikes me more than any of your Mastin-crap.

I'd like to see the 5 scummiest Carbon posts you can find, and why you think they are scummy.

[CarbonFiber]

Also, RBD is HATED which means we don't want them around in LYLO. Why is everyone hardcore defending a scummy player that should be policy lynched for being hated that just got counterclaimed as a miller?

~ F-16

F-16, look past the role. Look at the play. And look at other zmuffin town and scum games. You know, that meta stuff you do. Tell me how their play looks like their scumgames. Convince me. I don't think you can, but you absolutely won't convince me on the basis of you both being millers.

Why are you this obsessed about lynching the person you're counterclaiming in a fucking CABD game?

Nothing that Muffin has posted in the thread is a genuine effort to solve the game. His primary purpose in the game is browbeating everyone who scumreads MastinSSK. Him, Mastin, and AngryPidgeon make the most sense as a scumteam.

Muffin as town is actually useful to the game. See Cash Cabd, he was incredibly obvious town there.

Also, why are you against voting a hated claim? They ought to be lynched at some point before LYLO. With them alive, we have one less lynch.

Nati's posts are nothing like his play in NY169 where he was genuinely trying to work with players and solve the game. Like it's that obvious, I don't know what to tell you or how to convince you and I don't know even if I can and I don't know if anyone can. You are not a player that uses reasoning to refine reads. It is more of a "

have you read this player correctly before

" type with you. I explained why Casso was scum or at least not town in NY169. Your response was to say that you believe Mara's and Sakura's townreads over my scumread because they have experience playing with Nacho never mind that the don't have the accuracy that I did.

I made a huge long rant about your play but I decided to delete it. You have more experience with Nati so nothing I say is going to convince you. So, I guess I'll wait for Nacho to come and knock sense into you because whether or not you are convinced depends more on who is making the argument as opposed to whether they make a persuasive case. So, yeah, I am not going to bother.

~ F-16

[PeregrineV]

Okay. PV's just scum.

Rancid, AP, you want F-16 dead today, I get that.

But he can wait.

PV's just a plain simple scumbag.

Hmmm. Tell me more. Appeal to my emotions.

Oh, and 1826.

[AngryPidgeon]

Ya, I'll be around later to talk about Cf although I have already been talking about things I dislike from him a lot.

But I really REALLY need to go do some IRL things now.

[PeregrineV]

You or Nacho?

AP is calling Kagura scum, and then votes me along with Kagura. I'm asking if Kagura is automatically town for voting me. He answered (I think).

[Clyton]

Also, RBD is HATED which means we don't want them around in LYLO. Why is everyone hardcore defending a scummy player that should be policy lynched for being hated that just got counterclaimed as a miller?

~ F-16

F-16, look past the role. Look at the play. And look at other zmuffin town and scum games. You know, that meta stuff you do. Tell me how their play looks like their scumgames. Convince me. I don't think you can, but you absolutely won't convince me on the basis of you both being millers.

Why are you this obsessed about lynching the person you're counterclaiming in a fucking CABD game?

Nothing that Muffin has posted in the thread is a genuine effort to solve the game. His primary purpose in the game is browbeating everyone who scumreads MastinSSK. Him, Mastin, and AngryPidgeon make the most sense as a scumteam.

Muffin as town is actually useful to the game. See Cash Cabd, he was incredibly obvious town there.

Also, why are you against voting a hated claim? They ought to be lynched at some point before LYLO. With them alive, we have one less lynch.

Nati's posts are nothing like his play in NY169 where he was genuinely trying to work with players and solve the game. Like it's that obvious, I don't know what to tell you or how to convince you and I don't know even if I can and I don't know if anyone can. You are not a player that uses reasoning to refine reads. It is more of a "

have you read this player correctly before

" type with you. I explained why Casso was scum or at least not town in NY169. Your response was to say that you believe Mara's and Sakura's townreads over my scumread because they have experience playing with Nacho never mind that the don't have the accuracy that I did.

I made a huge long rant about your play but I decided to delete it. You have more experience with Nati so nothing I say is going to convince you. So, I guess I'll wait for Nacho to come and knock sense into you because whether or not you are convinced depends more on who is making the argument as opposed to whether they make a persuasive case. So, yeah, I am not going to bother.

~ F-16

But CF, let me bother with you then. You know we are on good terms, and I am willing to hear you out, despite our views of each other not in the so favorable town light. Perhaps I am still in the need of convincing and a "100% sure" preparation, just like how we both mentioned that particular attribute to our voting decisions.

Your rationale is that we lynch RBD as a policy lynch purely on the fact he is hated and it will put town at a disadvantage. Are you the kind of guy who would be willing to sacrifice a probable town member in order to avoid this from happening? Even if you gave up on convincing others, still convince me: is this truly your view? Or is it merely a way of getting out from your predicament and attacking a negative trait of another player to force a lynch of them?

See, I do not understand why you will not believe. You believe RBD's role contains a hated attribute, no doubt. Yet you don't believe he's a miller? A dual miller is just as likely in a "Cabd game", and I am sure from your words (or someone else's) that the complexity Cabd brings to all the roles in this game would be able to contain the complexity of two milers.

[CarbonFiber]

Clyton, you are confusing two alternate scenarios:

1) The most likely one: RBD is scum - lynch him.

2) The much less likely one: RBD is a hater town miller. Hater claims ought to be lynched because they give town one less lynch if they are alive anyways.

~ F-16

[CarbonFiber]

* hated

[CarbonFiber]

Tammy, are you actually serious with the whole "I need to look over the claims" shit? I am pretty obviously town here and I am cc'ing RBD. Not sure what your confused about.

~ F-16

[PeregrineV]

I thought you were asking me which game you were scum with Nacho in, which kiiinda seemed odd but w/e.

I think Nacho was scum in a hydra in the Dead Legal game.

PV, I can't think of how often I've voted you in games. Really the only game where I thought you looked really, really town was a long time ago - the amnesiac game. I feel like we have a mutual misread problem - see the Walking Dead game where you were certain we-Sangres were scum for a finished-game example.

Yeah, I thoguht for sure. But I think a lot of that was Nacho. Some of his stuff...
Beli I read his disinterest as scummy, even though it's probably not. And some of his other posting...grrr.
Ffery I generally feel ok on my reads since the amnesiac game. But, since you hydra a lot more than single player, I don't rely much on that.

I'm not sure why you're pushing me about being cautious in reading you and not just binning you in my scumpile like usual, but given our mutual past history it actually kinda pings.

Anyone that town-reads me for absolutely no reason always makes me suspicious. I'm a favorite to take far into the game because I get ignored alot, right or wrong. If I get too right, or others are more lynchable, I'll be NKed. If I stay wrong, I'm dragged to lylo where I overanalyze and/or just choose wrong.

If I get scumread for absolutely no reason, it always makes me suspicious. Right now Mastin and AP are both pushing me as some sort of compromise lynch. Which is a first in recent memory, especially day1. My most likely reason for this is because the amount of hydras in the game means that the hydra players will be more easily manipulated, since you only have to convince one head of anything. Whereas I don't buy that shit, it feels like they want me out of the way early.

Your actually one of my stronger townreads, which bothers me somewhat, but it also appears you are making an actual effort (look at your last 10 posts- they contain reasoning and thought).

[Cabd]

Mine?