Tales of You (Endgame)

[MastinSSK]

And bluntly, this is one of those times.

If the lead lynch candidate has reasonable doubt about being town, I might be willing to let them go to lynch.

Not here.

Here, I'd rather no-lynch than lynch zMuffinman.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

I don't know why anyone thinks this is town ATE, it looks like scum ATE to me.

What I view as a scumclaim more than the thing Sheep is hung up on is the way they reacted to CF's miller claim while not being a miller. Look at their posts directly after the claim. From here, they look really really terrible.

@2790: there will probably be a lot considering how many players' reads on each of you are largely based on stances you've both taken.

I don't know if I can really explain this but I'm going to try.

Neither of them are the kind of scum player to just lose it like that. It looks like pissed off town and it has looked like pissed off town for a few calendar days, now. confirmation bias is a thing. They've been reading CF as scum for a while and he trots out a last minute counter claim and it stinks to them.

I've done similar as town. What I didn't do was have a fake claim going at the same time because that's not how I generally play as town. I still misread the players involved and did my utter best to get them lynched.

Anyway, especially zmuffin, this is nothing like his scum game. Nor is it anything like nati's scum game.

[CarbonFiber]

As for the lack of suspects, I am feeling surprisingly confident on where the scumteam is: MastinSSK, Rancid, AP, and one of {Clyton, LordB, and maybe Yggrdra Union but I don't think so}.

Of this group, I'd vote mastin (on the basis of GiF/Pie's read mostly) or LordB. I don't think rancid is scum. I'm totally perplexed by muffin's recent posts, but I don't think either of them would behave like this as scum. Clyton's posts worry me.

p-edit hmm.

I'd go with Mastin as well. It is as I expected. Scum are doing everything they can to drive a compromise wagon through. I'll get back to this in a bit. Bork asked me in the neighborhood why I was so convinced PV was town and I am working on building a case.

[The Fox and the Hound]

What I view as a scumclaim more than the thing Sheep is hung up on is the way they reacted to CF's miller claim while not being a miller. Look at their posts directly after the claim. From here, they look really really terrible.

Problem:

As scum, why would they take the claim back? Knowing it'd bite them in the ass. Why do that, when they weren't getting lynched? Why do that? Why "scumclaim" when they can ride out deadline and be fine? Why not keep up the charade, ESPECIALLY given the people thinking two millers was possible? Why take it back, at the absolute worst time they could possibly choose to take it back?

It's not scumplay.

It's townplay.

Best example to come to my mind instantly would be (*groan*) House Party, and my mason fakeclaim with Majiffy. If I had been scum, there would have been no reason to let people suddenly doubt that. But because I was town, I couldn't in good conscience let myself do that. So I took it back, even though in hindsight I shouldn't have.

Same basic thing here.

Counterpoint: The town play, in my mind, would be to take it back immediately, before it causes what it's causing right now. Instead, they threw doubt on F16's claim and continued scumreading him, then called him conftown like 10 pages later. I don't see town motivation in that delay.

What's bad about being on both those wagons?

They're both on incredibly-strong town players? Who have been posting content consistently and are obvtown by play, and scumhunting consistently and raising a lot of good points?

Wouldn't it be weirder if I wasn't on both of them, considering that I've been scumreading both of you for most of the game? o.o
Not everyone sees everything the way you do :S

[MastinSSK]

So I'm working under the assumption of an all-town Abyss right now, believe it or not. I'm trying to figure out what that means.

[MastinSSK]

Anyway, especially zmuffin, this is nothing like his scum game. Nor is it anything like nati's scum game.

And yet you don't trust them that this is nothing like my scumgame.

Seriously, the day I fool zMuffinman is the day I win a fucking scummie, if not officially, then in my mind.

[Yggdra Union]

Ohshit.

You might as well be a true scum even if you flipped town by acting this way. My apologies to how you wanted to be ended.

Vote: Rancid Broderick Drake

DesBRO is probably town.

Clyton's scum.

Votecount 1-28

With 17 players alive, it will take 9 votes to lynch or nolynch.

PeregrineV (4): Kagura, AngryPidgeon, MastinSSK, Mac
MastinSSK (2): CupcakePanda, Yggdra Union
Just Sheep Us (2): orcinus_theoriginal, Red Gyarados
AngryPidgeon (1): Lord Business
Rancid Broderick Drake (6): CarbonFiber, Just Sheep Us, PeregrineV, The Fox and the Hound, Clyton, Rancid Broderick Drake,

Not Voting (2): Titan, Breakfast with Stalin

With 17 players alive, deadline is set for 18 days: (expired on 2014-04-18 00:01:39)

Btw, want to crossreference the names on this Rancid wagon with the equally-large wagon on me, and see what overlap there is.

Votecount 1-18

PeregrineV (1): Kagura
MastinSSK (6): CupcakePanda, Carbon Fiber, The Fox and the Hound, Yukari Yakumo, Just Sheep Us, AngryPidgeon
Just Sheep Us (2): orcinus_theoriginal, Red Gyarados
AngryPidgeon (3): Lord Business, Clyton, mastinSSK
The Fox and the Hound (1): Rancid Broderick Drake

Not Voting (4): Mac , PeregrineV, Titan, Breaskfast with Stalin

With 17 players alive, deadline is set for 18 days: (expired on 2014-04-18 00:01:39)

Votecount 1-28

PeregrineV (4): Kagura, AngryPidgeon, MastinSSK, Mac
MastinSSK (2): CupcakePanda, Yggdra Union
Just Sheep Us (2): orcinus_theoriginal, Red Gyarados
AngryPidgeon (1): Lord Business
Rancid Broderick Drake (6): CarbonFiber, Just Sheep Us, PeregrineV, The Fox and the Hound, Clyton, Rancid Broderick Drake,
Not Voting (2): Titan, Breakfast with Stalin
With 17 players alive, deadline is set for 18 days: (expired on 2014-04-18 00:01:39)

Carbon, Fox/Hound, and DesBro, yep. Though it should be noted that the VCs don't tell the whole story; Yygra has us both as scum yet hasn't moved from me, and PV had me as scum but never voted me. (As just two; there's probably more important people I'm forgetting.)

Soyeah, Fox/Hound does mildly look worse from this, especially if working on DesBRO being town, but it's not by much. (Especially if Clyton's scum.)

look at dis mastin grasping for every single possible counterwagon to RBD

mastin and RBD are still both scum

-Y

[Yggdra Union]

vote: RBD

I'll also vote mastin if need be

[MastinSSK]

Counterpoint: The town play, in my mind, would be to take it back immediately, before it causes what it's causing right now. Instead, they threw doubt on F16's claim and continued scumreading him, then called him conftown like 10 pages later. I don't see town motivation in that delay.

Counter-counterpoint: yes, that would have been the correct play...as EITHER alignment. That he didn't is vaguely indicative of his town PM. Furthermore, as scum, why not continue casting doubt on F-16? Why not try to get F-16 mislynched? Why not never reveal the truth? If not backing out immediately, that would be the correct scum play.

...Instead, they took it back. Because they're town, who analyzed things, realized F-16 was legit, and after that made the reveal.

Not everyone sees everything the way you do :S

Thus, only vaguely points to scum rather than blatantly pointing to scum.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Anyway, especially zmuffin, this is nothing like his scum game. Nor is it anything like nati's scum game.

And yet you don't trust them that this is nothing like my scumgame.

Seriously, the day I fool zMuffinman is the day I win a fucking scummie, if not officially, then in my mind.

Mastin,

I

fooled zmuffin in the last game we played. ME.

though he was reading me correctly on day 1 and I had a ton of help from town losing focus over and over again in that game.

Sometimes it's a concatenation of one player playing way above their league and another player having an off game and the rest of the game being a confusing ball of freakiness.

You're not cleared in my mind. But, as much as F-16 is bitching about compromise lynches, to my mind your lynch would be exactly that - a compromise that I'd hope like hell turned out to be scum.

[MastinSSK]

look at dis mastin grasping for every single possible counterwagon to RBD

Actually, Rancid's the counterwagon to all of those wagons.

DesBRO, PV, and Fox/Hound all had votes on them weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeell before Rancid did.

[Yggdra Union]

ITT mastin argues semantics that have nothing to do with my actual point. again

-Y

[Breakfast With Sandy]

hey pieguy, do you remember your mastin read on day 1 of xenosaga?

[MastinSSK]

Mastin,

I

fooled zmuffin in the last game we played. ME.

So?
zMuffinman's not a scumhunting god. I don't give a damn about his ability to read others. I'm talking about his history of reading ME. Literally every game we've been in, he's had me as the correct alignment, scumreading the scuMastin and townreading MasTown2. To the point where I blindly nightkilled him when I landed scum in a game he was in. (He was mislynch bait, btw.)

You're ignoring occam's razor.

Sure, I could be scum, who masterfully manipulated the strings in a god-tiered scum game to magnificently managed to perfectly fool the players who have never been fooled by me. Who would have been down on their luck in having an extremely 'off' game. Yet was somehow caught by players that have barely played with me because...oh, I dunno, "My mislynches don't need to think me town". (Which is BS. I make damn sure my mislynches think I'm town. I won Paranoia because of it, in fact. I scumread MTD, hardcore attacking him out of the gate in lylo. I reversed that into an attack on shos. They ended up crossvoting.) Could be. Sure.

Or I could simply be town, correctly read by those who know me and being incorrectly read by those who, bluntly, don't know me worth a damn.

[MastinSSK]

ITT mastin argues semantics that have nothing to do with my actual point. again

Except that this is no semantics debate.

Rancid IS a damn counterwagon. More specifically, a CW to PV. PV was the lead wagon with five votes (plus me), and a sixth potentially on the way. Rancid had two or three votes at the time.

Now he has six.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Mastin,

I

fooled zmuffin in the last game we played. ME.

So?
zMuffinman's not a scumhunting god. I don't give a damn about his ability to read others. I'm talking about his history of reading ME. Literally every game we've been in, he's had me as the correct alignment, scumreading the scuMastin and townreading MasTown2. To the point where I blindly nightkilled him when I landed scum in a game he was in. (He was mislynch bait, btw.)

You're ignoring occam's razor.

Sure, I could be scum, who masterfully manipulated the strings in a god-tiered scum game to magnificently managed to perfectly fool the players who have never been fooled by me. Who would have been down on their luck in having an extremely 'off' game. Yet was somehow caught by players that have barely played with me because...oh, I dunno, "My mislynches don't need to think me town". (Which is BS. I make damn sure my mislynches think I'm town. I won Paranoia because of it, in fact. I scumread MTD, hardcore attacking him out of the gate in lylo. I reversed that into an attack on shos. They ended up crossvoting.) Could be. Sure.

Or I could simply be town, correctly read by those who know me and being incorrectly read by those who, bluntly, don't know me worth a damn.

You ignored the rest of my post. And that's ok. I don't really want to exchange walls with you right now.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

As for the lack of suspects, I am feeling surprisingly confident on where the scumteam is: MastinSSK, Rancid, AP, and one of {Clyton, LordB, and maybe Yggrdra Union but I don't think so}.

Of this group, I'd vote mastin (on the basis of GiF/Pie's read mostly) or LordB. I don't think rancid is scum. I'm totally perplexed by muffin's recent posts, but I don't think either of them would behave like this as scum. Clyton's posts worry me.

p-edit hmm.

I'd go with Mastin as well. It is as I expected. Scum are doing everything they can to drive a compromise wagon through. I'll get back to this in a bit. Bork asked me in the neighborhood why I was so convinced PV was town and I am working on building a case.

I think the RBD lynch is going to go through. I hope you're right, but I don't believe you are.

I'm not really sure why I'm arguing against it so hard, given they both basically just want out of this game.

[MastinSSK]

No, I streamlined it. The bits I cut out were addressed in the post anyway in spite of not being quoted. Your read on me seems to basically be "nullish-scum"; I'm pointing out that the scum bit can't be true.

I suppose you could say:
My role is such that I'm not someone who never is getting lynched this game.
But my play is such that I

shouldn't

ever be lynched this game.

[PeregrineV]

PV had me as scum but never voted me.

Interesting take. What posts of mine gave you this read?

[AngryPidgeon]

Mastin I really think you are falling victim to CFs too dumb to be scum routine.

Their posting is synthetic like carbon fiber. Their conf bias on the 3 ppl in the spotlight and just assigning scum motive to justify a d1 3 way connection case is .. forced? It's certainly not town looking logic.

Also I'm literally on a plane atm ^^

[AngryPidgeon]

And please don't give me this nl > zmuffin lynch bit. It's retarded but they will keep being a distraction and lynch bait if town.

[AngryPidgeon]

So I'm working under the assumption of an all-town Abyss right now, believe it or not. I'm trying to figure out what that means.

That f16 is mocking you in his scum qt as he shoves really shitty mislynches on bad connection cases.

[CarbonFiber]

So I'm working under the assumption of an all-town Abyss right now, believe it or not. I'm trying to figure out what that means.

That f16 is mocking you in his scum qt as he shoves really shitty mislynches on bad connection cases.

^ This is a scumpost.

[AngryPidgeon]

Is it too late for the world's flashiest quick lynch on lord business?

[CarbonFiber]

How does anyone not realize that AP and Mastin have jumped into this thread spamming and howling for ANY lynch outside of them and Rancid.

Rancid, AP, and Mastin are scum. This is how scum lynches generally go. They aren't easy because scum will put up a fight.

So, no. We're aboslutely not lynching a lurker. I'll compromise any one of the three though.