Tales of You (Endgame)

[Yulia Jue]

Votecount 1-39

With 17 players alive, it will take 9 votes to lynch or nolynch.

Clyton (2): MastinSSK, Rancid Broderick Drake
MastinSSK (1): CupcakePanda
Rancid Broderick Drake (1): PeregrineV
orcinus_theoriginal (7): The Fox and the Hound, Mac, Angry Pidgeon, Kagura, Yggdra Union, Just Sheep Us, Clyton



Not Voting (5): CarbonFiber Red Gyarados, Titan, Breakfast With Stalin, Orcinus_theoriginal

With 17 players alive, deadline is set for 18 days: (expired on 2014-04-18 00:01:39)

Mod note: Deadline is REAAAAAAALY soon.

Broseidon head of Just Sheep Us is V/LA a few days.

[Just Sheep Us]

Holy shit with all this emotional clusterfuck going around, I'm just gonna stop and give this game a rest until the next day. I applaud the people who are still sane and going through this according to their win condition.

Vote: orcinus_theoriginal

Orcinus, I don't know if your claim is true or not. I do not even know if it is town-aligned or not. But your intentions were made clear that regardless of who is lynched, you will intervene. Now, I have a request. Choose me as one of the participants, and preferably Mastin as the other. I will personally deal with her and expose her for the emotional rift-raft she is and outline every inconsistency and scumtells I picked up from the previous 30 pages from her (and the entire game anyways) while outlining my personal defense (something I already explained in some of the posts, not sure how some of them miss that but if they are truly town, they avoided it and went on the basis of an inherent scum action).

can anyone please make sense of clyton's fucking mastin read for me?

he certainly isn't capable of it

[orcinus_theoriginal]

also clyton you can't talk during the gladiate

[orcinus_theoriginal]

oh wait sorry you want me to put YOU up with mastin

uhhh

nah

[orcinus_theoriginal]

i think i'll be putting up PV or LB up, alongside fery

we'll be doing either a lurker lynch or a no lynch

[orcinus_theoriginal]

test for 90 minutes, let me self hammer when i get back

[Clyton]

Holy shit with all this emotional clusterfuck going around, I'm just gonna stop and give this game a rest until the next day. I applaud the people who are still sane and going through this according to their win condition.

Vote: orcinus_theoriginal

Orcinus, I don't know if your claim is true or not. I do not even know if it is town-aligned or not. But your intentions were made clear that regardless of who is lynched, you will intervene. Now, I have a request. Choose me as one of the participants, and preferably Mastin as the other. I will personally deal with her and expose her for the emotional rift-raft she is and outline every inconsistency and scumtells I picked up from the previous 30 pages from her (and the entire game anyways) while outlining my personal defense (something I already explained in some of the posts, not sure how some of them miss that but if they are truly town, they avoided it and went on the basis of an inherent scum action).

can anyone please make sense of clyton's fucking mastin read for me?

he certainly isn't capable of it

How exactly do you not get my read on Mastin? Spill something out, otherwise, I can't understand your vague statements because you ain't clarifying specific points you want to be looked at.

[Clyton]

I mean, how can I make an argument if you're not gonna put up the damn "topic" you want me to clarify on?

[Just Sheep Us]

How exactly do you not get my read on Mastin? Spill something out, otherwise, I can't understand your vague statements because you ain't clarifying specific points you want to be looked at.

i'm not getting your read on mastin because every time you talk about him it's different than the time before.

[Titan]

He's overly hostile in many games and treats people like shit and quite frankly I don't really read a whole bunch of what he says because I hate when he talks to people the way he does

Get the fuck over this

I asked you multiple times in AoT to explain your reads and you wouldn't. I told you the way that you're playing is bad (i.e. objectively so because you're not convincing anyone of anything by just repeating "I think X is scum") and you whined about me calling you a bad player.

I don't set out to be mean to people, I just have an extremely low tolerance for people who cannot justify things they say

You *claim* this is your playstyle and that you can never explain anything. That just looks to me like you're, as you so kindly said to Nati, shooting in the dark and getting lucky when you happen to be right.

At no point have I ever set out to be vindictive without first seeing something really fucking nonsensical coming from the other party

I wasn't even referring to the way you talked to me. And I *did* explain my reads. I told you why town was town, you just thought it was a shit reason because you thought you were right, but if you would have looked at the game I was referencing for a baseline, you might have understood where I was coming from. I also explained that the person whose posts I was reading as scum felt fake and fabricated. You just couldn't accept that because you were reading him as town. I rarely have good reasons for why I read people the way I do on day one, but if you would have paid attention to the things I posted in the neighborhood that game the moment we had a scum flip, and I had actual information, you would see that I do sometimes have reasons that are pretty sound, I just don't always on day one. I have never claimed to be a good day one player, ever. I sometimes have pretty damn good reads on day one, but that's a rarity, and it's even rarer that I can actually build a good case day one.

Have you never used gut for anything? Because as I said in that game, what I was posting pretty much amounted to gut reactions based on their posts.

What I'm referring to with your vindictiveness though is the way you went after kthnxbye, and yeah maybe he was being a bit nonsensical but it still didn't warrant the way you spoke to him and as you were posting in the neighborhood that you shouldn't be saying what you were saying but dammit it's just so much fun is where I'm getting the way you revel in how you talk to people. I mean you can be funny as fuck sometimes but it's like you just forget that there are actual people you are talking to sometimes.

[Just Sheep Us]

Spoiler: clyton's trainwreck of a "trajectory" on mastinssk

Disclaimer: My reads are based on posts I find noteworthy. No RVS posts (obviously), no null-read posts considered. If there is a post that any of you would like to direct me to and want me to give an opinion of (because no one knows which posts I actually skipped merely based on a reads list), then let me know. I will sort this from most Town to the most Scum.



Red Gyarados: Townish to me. First page, they already declared their attempt to sort people, specifically targeting the "elites" because they have the most potential to influence the game based on prior meta knowledge/past games.

Lord Business: Townish in regards to going against CupcakePanda's scummish posts. However, it can be easily be scum making that comment too (agreeing with Mac therefore for pointing that out). Good defense against Titan, which I agree with. Probably settle with him leaning Town in the end. Good points on the state of Day 1 on what it should be and what it should not be.
Note: We may think alike in some regards, so this may not be an accurate read for any of you.

Mac: Leaning Townish for now. Good informational exchange between him and Rancid through a bunch of pirate gibberish.

Titan: Leaning Townish. Decides to use Nacho to prove everyone of his Town alignment (refer to post 74/I do not know how to reference ISO posts). The two could be in cahoots as scum, or Titan is a very paranoid Townie and does not want what happened in a past game (scum ganging up on her and eliminate all her credibility), therefore needing immediate support in fear of that happening (MastinSSK did mention something similar to my thinking).

Rancid: Leaning Townish, but can easily be scum. He has good points about CarbonFiber's OP in response to Mac's metadive.

PeregrineV: Null but slightly leaning Townish too. Gives off that certain vibe I know of.

The Fox and the Hound: Null. Need more info on something with more substance (not posts regarding who's side you are taking)

Breakfast With Stalin: Null

Kagura: Null

Yukari Yakumo: :3 aka Null

ElementalHawk: N/A

MastinSSK: Seems scummish to me. Attacks Titan for a reason that also does not seem confrontational to me. Also attacks Fox for taking a stance with Titan. However, with how they are approaching this, it is Town natured, and not only in this mini-battle, but also in their responses and questions to everyone else.

CarbonFiber: Leaning scummish. Makes valid points in his posts, but that should be enough to take action. Instead, he brings out the "I'm not sure yet so I'll hold off." However, understandably, my meta has some similarities to this line of action. Therefore, I will hold it off and could potentially see CF as Town too.

Just Sheep Us: Leaning scummish. Their vote against me does not warrant a response from me.

orcinus_theoriginal: Leaning scummish just for the random, no-reason vote.

CupcakePanda: Scummish to me. Feigning ignorance? Deliberately posting a notice of a lack of flavor knowledge in order to build up a naive appearance? If I was a Townie coming into a game with no flavor knowledge, I wouldn't be doing that unless I'm contributing and need some flavor knowledge in order to build up stronger yet applicable contributions. So far, Panda isn't contributing yet.



Other notes:

Nati/SSK dynamics always happen in the early stages of Day 1.

Mac notes that MastinSSK's style of opening has a strong correlation to a scum (was this scum also MastinSSK?) who did the same opening in the Touhou game.

Rancid claims that MastinSSK's posts have not appeared scummy yet. However, he has yet to comment on the updated posts MastinSSK did after that comment. Do they still not appear scummy after all those updated posts?

Titan vs MastinSSK:

- It wasn't confrontational because Titan was asking Kagura for a read on the former in a forceful manner. Kagura hasn't even stated anything; Titan "requested" a read. But I understand Mastin's sentiments on it being confrontational. I think the right words are "forceful" (why the pressure vote then?)

- Titan's responses however are very OMGUS natured; unfortunately, it is indeed what she feared in regards to a previous game.

- Likewise, Mastin is not any better. Immediately attacks Fox for taking a stance with Titan with a vote.

Conclusion: Titan and MastinSSK, as described in my reads above, can be easily Town or Scum for a multitude of reasons. We cannot dismiss this confrontation so easily. We must determine if there is legitimately a scum between the two, or if it is a Town vs Town. On the other hand, we use some role abilities to aid us in this investigation and focus on lynching someone else.

My suggestions on those who should be lynched today? Only CupcakePanda honestly. However, we need more info not only from Panda, but from everyone with vague actions and posts (like orcinus, Just Sheep Us and PeregrineV).

My apologies for the lack of response. I have been following along, rest assured. I did not really have new contributions to add. But let me remind you all once again of what I am thinking.

So, anyone here still think MastinSSK is town?

-FT

As said before personally, I think MastinSSK has an equal chance to be scum just as much as being town. I did say I was not going to vote him (nor Titan), but I feel we all must reach a decision. The amount of discussion going on, while having some substance, does not really point towards a certain direction (if you feel there is something we are leading towards to, please tell me). This isn't for me, but for the rest of you in the game, I feel people are waiting for the chance to see who will make the first move. The debate between Mastin and Titan has been no doubt been the highlight of the day, and perhaps, some of you are mentally locked that one of them has to be lynched in order to settle this. Then let me advance this discussion now.

As Mastin has mentioned before, he himself has stated that this is a rare case where role abilities (particularly investigative abilities) should be used on him or Titan in order to determine their alignments while keeping both of them alive. There are obviously pros and cons to this. But I won't elaborate on that. The main point is, do all of you feel this is the method to take? Or do you want to lynch one of them now to determine their alignment and follow our personal deductions based on the results? State your stance regarding this matter, and we can progress accordingly. This is not to say these are the only two choices: if you feel there is someone we should look towards to, tell us who. There is no diddly-daddling now.

This game contains 4 players that are mafia, and 13 players that are town.

has anybody mentioned this to mastin yet

No. In fact, I'm pretty sure no one has mentioned that fact at all, correct me if I'm wrong. I assumed people read the first set of mod posts and just took mental note of it.

Based on Mastin's random softclaim, it is clear that this is not the case he claims it to be. His role has nothing to do with the revelation of 4 mafias/13 towns. Everyone should have known that from the beginning of the game regardless of their role! Ergo, he most likely be trying to gain some sense of credibility and usefulness attached to his role in the face of the Town.

/Vote: MastinSSK

You say that you will not defend yourself because it is something that it is easy to fight off but you choose not to. However, you also make an effort to keep up with a realistic nonsense, so it is better to post the truth than fake it. If this is truly your playstyle, then you have either really meant what you said about the 4 mafias/13 towns or you made a mistake. I cannot take what you said lightly as a mistake; I personally think you meant it as you claimed about your playstyle. Therefore, I ask that you honor your 2nd detail of posting the truth over not defending yourself. Surely if it is easy to fight off, then you will have something to say to counter my suspicions.

OK nevermind, I see the scenario. Makes sense, otherwise, if you can't be on the leading wagon when it is 9 players, it would be a draw assuming 4 scum votes one player and the other 4 (excluding Mastin) vote another player.

[/b]/Unvote[/b]

His role has nothing to do with the revelation of 4 mafias/13 towns. Everyone should have known that from the beginning of the game regardless of their role! Ergo, he most likely be trying to gain some sense of credibility and usefulness attached to his role in the face of the Town

1) why couldn't mastin be town who has a role that suggests 4 scum?
2) did everyone know that? i mean sure we all "know" it from the OP but that doesn't mean mastin necessarily read it
3) this seems forced

i'm terribly sorry that i haven't impressed you mac is there anything i could possibly do to correct my sin

1. Due to the exchange that has happened after your caught up post, I strongly believe Mastin is Town now. Of course, there is a very slim possibility he might be scum (I think I can still see how scum would end up with that voting restriction/then again, this is simply by meta's rationale), but I will believe that Mastin is Town.
2. Resolved.
3. I'm not sure how you see this is forced. If you read my posts in the game (and hopefully not in ISO like CF), then anyone can tell this is not forced, but should be expected of me the moment Mastin made such a post.

Sure thing.

My assumption that Mastin (or everyone actually) had read what Yulia Jue posted in the beginning (confirmed 4 scum/13 town). Based on what Mastin did about softclaiming about a particular aspect of his role that confirms that exact number, it lead me to a couple of scenarios.

1. He intentionally claimed this particular aspect to gain favor in other people's eyes. "Oh, Mastin has a role that figures out for certainty there is 4 scum/13 town? He must have an important role that can benefit the Town!"

However, this assumes that Mastin read Yulia Jue's post about this confirmed fact, and said this hoping that the other people in this thread haven't read that particular confirmed fact. Therefore, if the people who haven't read agreed with Mastin, then that is more of saying Mastin has gained credibility in their eyes (in terms of usefulness to the Town); even if it is not much, knowing the exact number of each alignment is useful (personally to me, it helped me in multiple games in the off-site).

2. He actually did not read it, which turned out to be the case.

But I admit this is a mistake for me. I was too hasty to jump in. CF, you can tell from your interactions/analysis of me, and I did stated it in this game, that as of the moment, I am looking for openings to jump on and attack. I felt there was not a lot of progress going on because many people here are quite conservative. The reads I'm getting, although gives me a sense of direction of what to act upon, conflicts with other people's reads. We are like leaders, struggling to control the game, and with our own personalized read list, we are only bickering among ourselves trying to convince one another "this guy's town" or "this guy's scum."

As of the moment, aside from my limited access, I am also reading through the Vesperia game. My stance is this at the moment: we lynch the player that is the most probable scum at the moment, and focus on the night gathering information and enacting our abilities. I feel the majority here is trying to find someone who is 100% sure of being town or scum. But my rationale is different: it is pointless to find a 100% proof of someone's alignment because you will never know it until they are dead. Everyone before that is pure speculation. It is better to act upon even a 70% likeness of someone's alignment, but even then, I feel people are actually waiting to act upon "this guy's 99% scum/town."

What the hell man. I said I was gonna be V/LA till Tuesday night and 10 pages already passed with a bunch of shit. CF, I will promptly hold off my updated reads list; now is not the time to do so. I rather wait till Day 2 when this clusterfuck is cleared up.

At the moment, I will read the recent 10 pages, and will get back to you all. However, I am convinced with RBD's argument regarding AngryPigedon and MastinSSK. MastinSSK also provided some background information regarding AP's meta, which I will take it for his word; my trust in him is because my read on him (Mastin) is currently leaning towards the stronger town side. Although I do admit this is quite hasty of me, and therefore, my stance is not finalized. I am willing to change just as easily once I get a better grasp of the last 10 pages.

Vote: AngryPidgeon

@RG, yes it is. I am trying to bring across a point using a different impersonation lol

Updated Reads List:

Strong Town

Titan
Mac

Town

Kagura
Stalin
RBD
RG
orcinus

The In-Betweens

Mastin
The Fox and the Hound
AP
Just Sheep Us

Scum

Carbon Fiber

Unknown due to lack of recent activity

Lord Business
PeregrineV
Cupcake Panda
Yukari

Notes:
1. The reads are in order based on strength of alignment aka the people at the top are more likely to be that particular alignment they are under in.
1a. The order for the in-betweens and unknown tier is the likelihood of being town from top to bottom.
2. This reads list is based on having all players having been townread and scumread, with their certain placement on this list based on which read is more probable to be true.

I do hope point 2 in particular can give you the understanding for this reads list. If you want me to give a detailed analysis on a specific player, ask away and I will post the info.

Holy shit with all this emotional clusterfuck going around, I'm just gonna stop and give this game a rest until the next day. I applaud the people who are still sane and going through this according to their win condition.

Vote: orcinus_theoriginal

Orcinus, I don't know if your claim is true or not. I do not even know if it is town-aligned or not. But your intentions were made clear that regardless of who is lynched, you will intervene. Now, I have a request. Choose me as one of the participants, and preferably Mastin as the other. I will personally deal with her and expose her for the emotional rift-raft she is and outline every inconsistency and scumtells I picked up from the previous 30 pages from her (and the entire game anyways) while outlining my personal defense (something I already explained in some of the posts, not sure how some of them miss that but if they are truly town, they avoided it and went on the basis of an inherent scum action).

[Clyton]

How exactly do you not get my read on Mastin? Spill something out, otherwise, I can't understand your vague statements because you ain't clarifying specific points you want to be looked at.

i'm not getting your read on mastin because every time you talk about him it's different than the time before.

Well as you know, I was against you and CF for your case against RBD and Mastin. I am sure that you saw my reads in the beginning that I had these two originally as town. I still think RBD is town because of the frustration they showed and the hope they gave up on this game, something that I have saw in past games I played in. Never once did I see a scum turned out from such a scenario.

Mastin I thought I had her correctly read early in the day. The "war" against Titan was evident in a townie vs townie scenario. But then, everything went downhill after she acknowledged that she was acting based on emotions just recently. I see some inconsistencies (which I will later lay out in my legitimate case against her) regarding the first half of this day and this recent development of her.

You noticed did you not? I'm not here hours straight. I come here in "intervals" for the lack of better word, and the recent developments forces me to adjust and analyze everything again.

The reason I wanted orcinus to gladiate me and Mastin is because if it is 1v1, I can purely focus on her and drown out the noise around me (people can't even talk anyways, so that's good). Then I can finally lay out my case.

[Clyton]

I can give you my commentary JSU on the spoiler. Give me a moment to write that down now.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

SEVEN MORE PAGES?

JOBS MOTHERFUCKERS DO YOU HAVE THEM?

-Beli

[CarbonFiber]

I don't think you're making the game unfun for anyone and I never said that. I would just really ignore muffin when he says things insulting (and this goes for you too Bro) because what I've learned about muffin is that he feeds off those reactions he gets from people. If you don't believe me about that go read the neighborhood from Attack on Titan and see how he was talking about kthnxbye. He's overly hostile in many games and treats people like shit and quite frankly I don't really read a whole bunch of what he says because I hate when he talks to people the way he does. (and yes, I realize that at times I'm not exactly pleasant, but)

I *did* vote them last night; it was part of the source of you getting after me for voting and unvoting. A part of me would like to put an end to the noise and not have to deal with watching him insult people in the game which I feel is pretty inevitable especially with the way this game is going, but I do really like his other head AND I'm not sure they're scum.

I partly voted Orc to see where it would go, but considering I unvoted as soon as it got to L-1, I think it should be clear that I wasn't ready to see it go through.

I am also not getting this game, but what I am trying to do is be a bit objective. When I said I took a break from mafia this week for a reason, I meant it. I near replaced out of every game I was in just because things were getting to me and I was over it. I'm trying to be a bit more objective right now and not let so many things get to me. That was what I was referring to when asking you not to get after me. I'm at the point where I'd near almost lynch anyone. I still don't have a strong bank of town I'd bet the game on though I'd be super duper shocked if you flipped scum.

At the moment I don't even know how to parse this game. It's been extraordinarily noisy, I can't tell if it's just a bunch of noisy town with scum hiding and egging things on, or if it's scum who are playing to a whole bunch of theater. At the moment it has me feeling damn near paralyzed because the game doesn't make sense to me at all, and I don't know how to make it make sense right now.

Okay. I'll reset and start from scratch so hopefully I get on the same page as everyone else. If you are still alive D2 which I hope you are, I really think you can solve the game once we start seeing some flips and getting more information out there because I do think your reads develop really well past D1. At this point, I think the only lynch we can get is Orc to govern someone so I'll roll with that.

[CarbonFiber]

Orc, a lurker/feel-good lynch isn't going to give us a lot of information and wierd though Clyton's proposal might sound, I don't think it is a bad idea at all.

I'd really prefer you not put up PV. He is not a lurker. A lot of the observations he has made in the thread are very, very good and I genuinely, strongly believe that he is town. I can't honestly say the same for LordBusiness so I guess he is not a bad choice for putting up if you think he will flip scum. He hasn't posted anything of substance and the last post he made, I had some concerns. Him and Clyton would be good choices to put up.

[CarbonFiber]

Now that I come to think of it, what are everyone's thoughts about lynching LordBusiness?

[The Fox and the Hound]

I would not object to a lurker lynch at this point, we obviously need more time.

p-edit: I would be fine with that

[Clyton]

1st quote: I scumread and townread Mastin and thought of both perspectives. The read I gave at that moment of the post was what I genuinely thought. No confusion there.

2nd quote: Pretty much the same. I did mention that Mastin had an equal chance of being scum and town. I gathered that from the scumread and townread I did on her, which when weighing them, seemed pretty even in significance/importance to the possibility of either alignment.

3rd quote: That was me trying to get clarification regarding Mastin's voting restriciton (not sure why you even quoted that).

4th quote: The townread came ahead of the scumread. I based my rationale on the role and which alignment the role will most likely fall with. Scum had very little chance of having such voting restriction; it's essentially saying that Mastin has to rely on non-wagon votes to manipulate the town in picking off key targets the mafia wants to take out.

5th quote: Self-explanatory based on my post. My suspicion fell on Mastin because of how she came up with the 4 mafia/13 town, something that should've been common knowledge if everyone read it in the beginning, but turned out to be Mastin not reading it at all. However, withheld from that post, you never know if Mastin actually did read it in the beginning and withheld that, using the ruse of not reading the beginning post to get herself out of that suspicion I have on her.

6th quote: I think you can tell from the increasing towniness I found in Mastin based on the posts where the townread got ahead from the scumread up to this 6th quote was the reason I said such a post.

7th quote: Mastin became an in-between. This is due to recent developments, aka you and CF against RBD and Mastin. I considered your side of the case and RBD's/Mastin's side, and I finally did a nullread on Mustin (on my first read, I didn't nullread anyone). Your side of the case has some merit, but so did RBD and Mastin. Hence, I was at a loss in this debate and resorted to putting most of you in in-betweens for the time being so I can gather my thoughts and let this debate pan out even further.

8th quote: I said it in 3286; that's my reasoning at the moment. I may add more as I analyze Mastin's posts in this game thus far.

[Just Sheep Us]

1st quote: I scumread and townread Mastin and thought of both perspectives. The read I gave at that moment of the post was what I genuinely thought. No confusion there.

2nd quote: Pretty much the same. I did mention that Mastin had an equal chance of being scum and town. I gathered that from the scumread and townread I did on her, which when weighing them, seemed pretty even in significance/importance to the possibility of either alignment.

3rd quote: That was me trying to get clarification regarding Mastin's voting restriciton (not sure why you even quoted that).

4th quote: The townread came ahead of the scumread. I based my rationale on the role and which alignment the role will most likely fall with. Scum had very little chance of having such voting restriction; it's essentially saying that Mastin has to rely on non-wagon votes to manipulate the town in picking off key targets the mafia wants to take out.

5th quote: Self-explanatory based on my post. My suspicion fell on Mastin because of how she came up with the 4 mafia/13 town, something that should've been common knowledge if everyone read it in the beginning, but turned out to be Mastin not reading it at all. However, withheld from that post, you never know if Mastin actually did read it in the beginning and withheld that, using the ruse of not reading the beginning post to get herself out of that suspicion I have on her.

6th quote: I think you can tell from the increasing towniness I found in Mastin based on the posts where the townread got ahead from the scumread up to this 6th quote was the reason I said such a post.

7th quote: Mastin became an in-between. This is due to recent developments, aka you and CF against RBD and Mastin. I considered your side of the case and RBD's/Mastin's side, and I finally did a nullread on Mustin (on my first read, I didn't nullread anyone). Your side of the case has some merit, but so did RBD and Mastin. Hence, I was at a loss in this debate and resorted to putting most of you in in-betweens for the time being so I can gather my thoughts and let this debate pan out even further.

8th quote: I said it in 3286; that's my reasoning at the moment. I may add more as I analyze Mastin's posts in this game thus far.

thank you for doing this

i don't get you and i don't think i ever will.

[Titan]

I"m worried that Nacho was bussing Orci.

[Clyton]

Orc, a lurker/feel-good lynch isn't going to give us a lot of information and wierd though Clyton's proposal might sound, I don't think it is a bad idea at all.

I'd really prefer you not put up PV. He is not a lurker. A lot of the observations he has made in the thread are very, very good and I genuinely, strongly believe that he is town. I can't honestly say the same for LordBusiness so I guess he is not a bad choice for putting up if you think he will flip scum. He hasn't posted anything of substance and the last post he made, I had some concerns. Him and Clyton would be good choices to put up.

There is nothing weird CF. In fact, you should take this as a chance. You had a nullread on me did you not? Should the spotlight be on me and Mastin, then you have no worries of outside noises. You can devote all the time you have in analyzing me and determining for yourself if I am truly town or scum.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

I'll have some faith in the people I trust. Stalin, what will you do? You clearly don't want to lynch RBD cause you think he's town. Who's the alternative then? I don't see PV being scummy; rather, there is a lack of townreads on him.

Clyton, where did this trust come from?

[Clyton]

1st quote: I scumread and townread Mastin and thought of both perspectives. The read I gave at that moment of the post was what I genuinely thought. No confusion there.

2nd quote: Pretty much the same. I did mention that Mastin had an equal chance of being scum and town. I gathered that from the scumread and townread I did on her, which when weighing them, seemed pretty even in significance/importance to the possibility of either alignment.

3rd quote: That was me trying to get clarification regarding Mastin's voting restriciton (not sure why you even quoted that).

4th quote: The townread came ahead of the scumread. I based my rationale on the role and which alignment the role will most likely fall with. Scum had very little chance of having such voting restriction; it's essentially saying that Mastin has to rely on non-wagon votes to manipulate the town in picking off key targets the mafia wants to take out.

5th quote: Self-explanatory based on my post. My suspicion fell on Mastin because of how she came up with the 4 mafia/13 town, something that should've been common knowledge if everyone read it in the beginning, but turned out to be Mastin not reading it at all. However, withheld from that post, you never know if Mastin actually did read it in the beginning and withheld that, using the ruse of not reading the beginning post to get herself out of that suspicion I have on her.

6th quote: I think you can tell from the increasing towniness I found in Mastin based on the posts where the townread got ahead from the scumread up to this 6th quote was the reason I said such a post.

7th quote: Mastin became an in-between. This is due to recent developments, aka you and CF against RBD and Mastin. I considered your side of the case and RBD's/Mastin's side, and I finally did a nullread on Mustin (on my first read, I didn't nullread anyone). Your side of the case has some merit, but so did RBD and Mastin. Hence, I was at a loss in this debate and resorted to putting most of you in in-betweens for the time being so I can gather my thoughts and let this debate pan out even further.

8th quote: I said it in 3286; that's my reasoning at the moment. I may add more as I analyze Mastin's posts in this game thus far.

thank you for doing this

i don't get you and i don't think i ever will.

That is fine. If you are town, then my advice is that you continue to suspect me due to the fact that I cannot be understood from your perspective. Use the foundation you have built (your trust on CF for instance, and extending to that, his read on me). In this case, do not think from your perspective, but other people perspectives (but mines, because you are not able to understand my perspective).

[Cabd]

Mine?