MS Fantasy Camp 2: Reaper's Tale! (Finished!)

[kanyeknowsbest]

im not getting the same town vibes from her that i was getting in fire and ice

[sangres]

neither am I, though I was observing, not playing.

There's a fair amount of player overlap between the two games.

Chamber is a surprisingly strong town read. surprising because I haven't played that often with him (and only when he was town). his tone is different from the other two games but still strikes me as town.

[kanyeknowsbest]

i agree on chamber, i like the things hes posting and the way hes posting them. my only caveat is ineed to think a little abt his play for the framing

[Flipping Awesome]

If it's sincere I would be surprised. If it's good I would be astonished. If it's neither I think Plum would make an excellent compromise lynch among our fractured factions.

I'd hate to see "fractured factions." I think we are agreed on most reads (or at least my 6 of my 7 townreads so far) so I'd prefer we all build consensus together. What are your thoughts about my read on Chamber?

Yes, I do think you sound like you're fake raging at me. You're reminding me of the aia/vista game right now and quite frankl I have no idea why you are yelling at me.

Can I get a link to this game(s)? It looks like it happened in more than one thread. I am assuming Shadoweh fake-raged there?

I think that [Katsuki yelling and OMGUSing and chanelling Fate] would be an easy screen for his scum game.

Katsuki doesn't do that as scum but is much more involved with the game and actually has some semblance of "pro-town" play.

Do I need to do the scummy thing and MAKE A CASE on NS for things to happen, though?

I liked the aggression in this post but I felt your response in Post 725 was underwhelming. You say a lot of stuff that doesn't resonate, then unvote and vote Tim.

~ F-16

[Flipping Awesome]

On Shadoweh

: I can see where Cerulean and Chamber are coming from with the argument that Shadoweh forgetting the color of her role PM could mean scum, BUT, I too saw the red role PM and totally forgot the color of my role PM until Chamber brought it back up and once the game had started, I was busy telling Nacho and others that I was super-obvtown etc. So, I can plausibly see Shadoweh not just forgetting her role PM color but also not understanding why people are suspecting her for it.

Some of Shadoweh's frustration looks real to me and she seems genuinely upset. No one likes unexplained votes on them and that's what got her riled up initially and I think the ensuing discussion aggravated her.

On the other hand, if she's played with Tammy/Empire/Chamber before, I think she would be a little more confident in her ability to look town and theirs to recognize her as town. So, I don't like the defeatist attitude and the whole "

your blue case will get me lynched

." I actually don't recall Empire ever making a significant case on a townie before. I dislike that she thinks she can't change Cerulean's/Chamber's minds especially as Chamber already indicated that he wanted to see Shadoweh as town and I assume Tammy was implying the same thing with the "

I love you Shadoweh

" line. Since she is townreading them both, it looks even more out of place. I haven't played with Shadoweh so I'll give a more solid opinion once I learn what her fake rage looks like.

---

UntrodTripod

gives me gut townvibes but I need to double-check and explanation will have to wait.

---

Plum

feels scummy. Her walls feel fluffy and not like she is trying to drive the game forward and I am coming around to Penguin's scumread on her.

~ F-16

[Nero Cain]

Also, I read through Nero Cain's scumgame and realized that the markers that I'm using for him aren't as good as I originally thought so

I need a reset especially since my other head disagrees./b]

Or maybe PA is just an idiot and you shouldn't listen to her. Now vote scum Venmar with me.

Heh, of all the people in this game I expected to call me an idiot justifiably, you didn't actually crack the top ten. And if you read what F-16 said, you'll note that he determined that he'd called you town too hastily all on his own. And while I know F-16 has updated reads incoming, you'd actually be better off appealing to me to join you on the Venmar wagon.

--PA

*shrugz* all I know is that you are have close to a 0% history of correctly reading me correctly and I'm slightly paranoid that you guys since all I keep hearing is that you are paranoid of me for F all reasoning. If you are so worried about me why then have you not engaged me? They bold DOES make it sound like your nero-might be scum read or whatever did have an influence on him.

As far as Venmar goes, I don't think there's anything I can say that I haven't already said in thread. I think his rage is fake, I don't think he had any town motivations in trying to stop the Kat wagon.

[Sixty]

Tierce here. Tonight is a bad night because of all sorts of triggers due to a stupid TV show. I'll regroup with Vi tomorrow, sorry about that.

[Sixty]

Empire, if you could be around tomorrow at any time you decree, that'd be great.

[sangres]

Katsuki doesn't do that as scum but is much more involved with the game and actually has some semblance of "pro-town" play.

something

about his play struck nacho quite strongly as scum-katsuki. I don't really want to downgrade that without knowing more of the basis for it. I may move our vote tomorrow if I don't hear from him, but won't be calling katsuki town on my own.

[Nero Cain]

Also, want to look over Nero Cain's meta to solidify a read there.

Nero Cain:
TOWN: Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Legacy, NY 160: Terrible Melodrama, Open 505, NY164: Maniacal Street, Fire Emblem
SCUM: Imperial Intrigue

I was in the first two towngames, Penguin was in the others. Neither of us played with scum-Nero.

~ F-16

I think you are missing some games.

[Flipping Awesome]

Ffery, I'll wait for Nacho to elaborate.

Nero, I picked some games that we played in and the scumgame you have in your sig. Link those games then that you'd like us to take a look at (especially most recent scumgames would be cool). And yeah, I forgot KoreanBBQ in NY169.

~ F-16

[Nero Cain]

most recent scum game would be marketplace tres. Its not that I "want" you to take a look at any specific games, I was just curious as why games were kinda cherry picked.

I'm waiting on your Venmar read.

[Tim Howard]

Town (Strongest->Weakest): Cerulean, Chamber, LLD, Sangres, CDB, Zdenek, Sixty
Scum are among: {Shadoweh, Plum, Venmar, Katsuki, Nero Cain, NS, Kanye, UT, Reck, Tim Howard}

So maybe I'm misunderstanding, but are you seriously saying that you're scumreading 10 people? Because this is absolutely yelling "FALLBACK WAGONS AHOY"

I know there have been other things that happened since our last post but I needed to comment on that before bed because like daaaaaaamn.

[Nero Cain]

Eh, could be faking but I've done POE lists like that.

[Flipping Awesome]

I am not "scumreading" 10 people. Those are the leftovers after I POE'd 7 players as town. Next step is more POE until I'm left with 4-5 players that also make decent sense as a scumteam.

We'll post our Venmar read and others when we have a solid enough read.

Also, UT isn't reading this game.

~ F-16

[Shadoweh]

On the other hand, if she's played with Tammy/Empire/Chamber before, I think she would be a little more confident in her ability to look town and theirs to recognize her as town. So, I don't like the defeatist attitude and the whole "

your blue case will get me lynched

." I actually don't recall Empire ever making a significant case on a townie before. I dislike that she thinks she can't change Cerulean's/Chamber's minds especially as Chamber already indicated that he wanted to see Shadoweh as town and I assume Tammy was implying the same thing with the "

I love you Shadoweh

" line. Since she is townreading them both, it looks even more out of place. I haven't played with Shadoweh so I'll give a more solid opinion once I learn what her fake rage looks like.

I think you need to recognize when that statement happened. IE after over a week of shrill screaming in which many of my posts were answered by things like 'I am so sorry you got a scum role pm'. Empire hasn't made a significant case on me, he already admitted he doesn't know how to read me. And they're very obviously not changing their minds. I don't think I've played with Chamber besides the previous game I was scum in though. If I have I don't remember it.

Also I can't find aia or vista. >_> I suspect they might have been consumed by tigers.

[Untrod Tripod]

define reading

[Flipping Awesome]

but actually Cerulean's early posts are super bad so I really just want to keep my vote where it is because it's actually scum guys

Elaborate on why. Have you played with either head before?

even the katsuki vote, flawed as it is, looks town to me

Why is it flawed? Are you townreading Katsuki? If so, why?

[Untrod Tripod]

oh, sorry I missed that!

yeah, but it's not a meta read. do you have a line of questioning that doesn't cover something I've already explained, because I've already elaborated a bit since you asked that.

I'm not sure about Kats, but I know I've seen Kats get lynched before as town for acting like this and I'm not compelled by the wagon.

[Flipping Awesome]

On the other hand, if she's played with Tammy/Empire/Chamber before, I think she would be a little more confident in her ability to look town and theirs to recognize her as town. So, I don't like the defeatist attitude and the whole "

your blue case will get me lynched

." I actually don't recall Empire ever making a significant case on a townie before. I dislike that she thinks she can't change Cerulean's/Chamber's minds especially as Chamber already indicated that he wanted to see Shadoweh as town and I assume Tammy was implying the same thing with the "

I love you Shadoweh

" line. Since she is townreading them both, it looks even more out of place. I haven't played with Shadoweh so I'll give a more solid opinion once I learn what her fake rage looks like.

I think you need to recognize when that statement happened. IE after over a week of shrill screaming in which many of my posts were answered by things like 'I am so sorry you got a scum role pm'. Empire hasn't made a significant case on me, he already admitted he doesn't know how to read me. And they're very obviously not changing their minds. I don't think I've played with Chamber besides the previous game I was scum in though. If I have I don't remember it.

Also I can't find aia or vista. >_> I suspect they might have been consumed by tigers.

Okay. From what I gathered of Chamber's posts towards you, he implied that he knew you or you were friends so I figured it you were town, you'd be more confident in your ability to just show him that you are.

You said to Cerulean in Post 701 that nothing can make them change their mind. I can see why the "

I am sorry you got a scum role PM

" would demotivate you regardless of affiliation. But from my experience with both heads, I never felt as though I couldn't change their mind when I was town so it felt off mostly because of who you directed it towards. I think you'd be more likely to give up if you were correctly pegged as scum than if you were being read wrong.

~ F-16

[Flipping Awesome]

oh, sorry I missed that!

yeah, but it's not a meta read. do you have a line of questioning that doesn't cover something I've already explained, because I've already elaborated a bit since you asked that.

I'm not sure about Kats, but I know I've seen Kats get lynched before as town for acting like this and I'm not compelled by the wagon.

At that point, I was more interested in why you skipped those posts but I like your response anyways. The Kats read has been on my to-do list for a while. I'll get around to it.
~ F-16

[Flipping Awesome]

@P_A: There may be a puppy in it for you if you pre-empt F-16 by voting Nero Cain.

...I'm allergic to puppies? :ducks: At this point I'm mildly concerned about my lack of a town read on him, but I don't want him lynched, as I'd like to think I can get a better read on him as the game develops.

*shrugz* all I know is that you are have close to a 0% history of correctly reading me correctly

Excluding games where one of us was in-hydra because I don't really want to track them down, I scum read you when I was town incorrectly in 2.5 Friends, the game where you tunneled my strong town read on Yates to the point where you faked a result on him for the mislynch. Otherwise, I find Mainstream Mafia, where I scum read your predecessor but not you to the point that I bodyguarded you, Open 505 where I town read you correctly. Everything else you have with me, I was scum and was obviously bullshitting my reads on you.

So...33% incorrect? And IIRC you were reading me incorrectly in that same game?

(And oh dear lord I'm not reading Marketplace III to figure out what you look like as scum; I could barely read that game when I had to. I'll content myself with waiting for you to demonstrate your towniness or lack thereof.)

At any rate, I don't like Venmar, but I like Plum less, and Katsuki obviously isn't going anywhere. I'll trust that y'all won't let him slip away if he's scum here.

UNVOTE: Katsuki
VOTE: Plum

Reading her posts reinforces the feeling I had that she isn't trying to moving things forward. There's a lot of negativity being put out there that comes off as non-productive, and the NS case followed by a vote on Tim Howard that I don't understand tips it over into being willing to vote here.

--PA

[Nero Cain]

it's not a non sequitar at all, I'm trying to get you to come over to the Venmar wagon

Funny that, I'm trying to get you to come over to the Nero Cain wagon. I can understand buy Venmar's as genuine more easily than Nero Cain's picks of easy targets for superficial reasons and then winning a logic war with Venmar.

???????
You know that this place is smurfed up when a player can play anti-town as smurf (like Kat!) and then the player that speculates that its not town gets called scum. This is why I kill Kat when I have bullets, though I haven't played with him in awhile so I didn't remember what he did as scum but there are players that are trolly/non-committal who flip scum so...

You had the same reaction to Sangres' "no lynch" vote.

I am not the only one that found Shadow dense/scummy for thinking that my name in blue made me town.

And I just don't like Venmar calling Kat a pl and then he flipped out when I told him it wasn't.

I don't really have any strong reads on Reck, UT, NS, Plum, KKB or you (though defending obv scum Venmar makes me worry!)

Maybe I'm wrong on TH. Didn't really care for his 787 but I don't really remember anything else that I absolutely hated. I guess I can ISO him and see.

The only other thing that slightly concerns me is LLD's claim. Its possible she could be claiming for town cred. Wanting to use her ability day 1 when there's very little information and is more likely to hit town doesn't seem like the best use of said power. I had her role - the no lynch thing in Nexus' WWE game so is she making the no lynch thing up? Its plausible that Minaday could deviate from the role so...idk.

[chamber]

Okay. From what I gathered of Chamber's posts towards you, he implied that he knew you or you were friends so I figured it you were town, you'd be more confident in your ability to just show him that you are.

Relatively new friends, mafia games take months, etc.

[Katsuki]

NICE TO SEE YA STILL ALIVE KANYE