Tales of You (Endgame)

[CarbonFiber]

Pretty much every time I see Bork post, my paranoia goes away somewhat. But I think Nacho has evolved beyond robotic during NY169. The flashwagon on Sakura and the dismantling of it, etc.

Ffery, do you have any actual scumreads at this point? One thing I wanted to ask about your reads-list is that I am not really sure what you were trying to convey. It seems like you have townreads on everyone.

[Clyton]

Pretty much every time I see Bork post, my paranoia goes away somewhat. But I think Nacho has evolved beyond robotic during NY169. The flashwagon on Sakura and the dismantling of it, etc.

Ffery, do you have any actual scumreads at this point? One thing I wanted to ask about your reads-list is that I am not really sure what you were trying to convey. It seems like you have townreads on everyone.

CF, and any other within that neighbourhood; can you explain paraphrase what happened in the QT with Kagura? What was the argument about?

I will post my other thoughts tomorrow, late here.

[CarbonFiber]

The timing of when he showed up basically.

[Clyton]

The timing of when he showed up basically.

Alright thank you, I noted that.

Also, I have a Xillia character, so I will be in the neighbourhood with Titan. I would appreciate if a Xillia neighbourhood was set up; totally up to your decision.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Pretty much every time I see Bork post, my paranoia goes away somewhat. But I think Nacho has evolved beyond robotic during NY169. The flashwagon on Sakura and the dismantling of it, etc.

Ffery, do you have any actual scumreads at this point? One thing I wanted to ask about your reads-list is that I am not really sure what you were trying to convey. It seems like you have townreads on everyone.

It's almost pure PoE for me. AP worries me, but I don't really have anything solid to go on there. And his vote on me during the governor/gladiate thing pinged but he did indicate paranoia once or twice during day 1 and LB

did

come off incredibly town during that. Beli still scumreads Mastin, and depending on how today goes I could see us putting our vote there today.

[Clyton]

Some quick thoughtful notes:

I think for me, and perhaps some others, we have still yet to fully explore the possibilities of a Cabd game. Aside from the possibility that CF has mentioned (town janitor/scum self-janitor), I noticed that LB has turned up as Kreed, an antagonist on the town side. So not only are roles truly indicative of an alignment, but neither do their characters.

[Clyton]

Some quick thoughtful notes:

I think for me, and perhaps some others, we have still yet to fully explore the possibilities of a Cabd game. Aside from the possibility that CF has mentioned (town janitor/scum self-janitor), I noticed that LB has turned up as Kreed, an antagonist on the town side. So not only are roles truly indicative of an alignment, but neither do their characters.

I meant roles are not indicative of their alignment if that clarifies things easier. AKA I agree with CF's hypothesis.

[The Fox and the Hound]

I thought there was gonna be a Symphonia neighborhood but there isn't :S

[Just Sheep Us]

Alignments were distributed before characters were.

I asked cabd about this at some point b/c of the neighborhood stuff.

[MastinSSK]

So I'm back on page 130 officially. I've read the entire game since then, but it was at night so there's some stuff I need to comment on. However, I'll cut to the chase.

Kagura, Rancid, DesBRO, and Mac are the players that are townreads I'm willing to risk the game off of. Don't care what anyone else says on them. They're all town.

Titan, Red Gyarados, and Katsuki are strong, mid, and weak (respectively) strong-townreads. ("Waitwhat, that makes no sense." Well, Titan's almost in the conftown pile, but while I have them at that strength, I'm not quite willing to risk the game on them being town. Thus, strong-strong town. Red Gyarados has a LOT going for them making them town, but there's a very slight shadow of a doubt which prevents them from being highest tier, yet alone, game-risking. I'm considering promoting them, but I want notscience posting more and Brian Skies to still be around. And Katsuki is, well...Katsuki. So while a townread, is...well, Katsuki.)

Before the fight began, I had Stalin in that weak strong-townread pile. Now, I'm actually concerned about them, especially considering Rancid's vote on them. (You say trolling, I don't share that same belief.) They're in the same spot as Yygra, approximately, readswise though.

That's all off of me.

There are more players that are in the town pile, though.

Carbon Fiber:

Bluntly, I keep on thinking about this. But I'm not seeing the townness. I AM willing to trust other peoples' reads of his townness, especially those in the QT. (I don't think he would be able to successfully manipulate them all.) But that's the problem. There's nothing off of his in-thread posting that makes him town; it's all based off of the QT, because the train of thought in-thread is obscured. However, between his role (no, not the role--how it was used and claimed) and me being able to squint my eyes, I can buy him being town.

Yygdra Union:

I don't remember why I townread them and why others did, either. I trust they're town, because there were reasons and I simply didn't remember them. But it's not a strong trust.

Fox/Hound:

A null-read. I can't read them one way or the other, but while I reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally don't think the reasons that they were townread were valid, I CAN see the townness in them and think they might be town anyway, but it's a really tough call.

Leaving?

Orcinus. (Heck no, he gets no towncred for that claim. It's null.)
AP. (I'll need him sorted.)
and Lord Business as the regular pile. (It's a Cabd game. LB's not necessarily town even though he just flipped it.)
And PV and Clyton in the scumread pile.

So I told myself last night,
"I should probably sort those people."

And I might put effort into that later.
But know what else I realized?
When it comes to AP and Orcinus in particular (with a side of Fox/Hound)?
...I'm a fucking bulletproof, I don't need to bother giving a damn sorting them right now. I'll figure it out on a future day. With extra info from extra days, both roles-wise and play-wise, I'll put in that extra effort, but I don't need it now.

What I do need is to focus on getting actual fucking scumbags lynched. Clyton. PeregrineV. Doesn't matter which, but both dead by my charismatic hand. Then I work out the rest.
'Cause fuck you all, I am a reincarnated god.

VOTE: PeregrineV.

[MastinSSK]

Easily could have voted Clyton, btw.

I see. A desperation attempt on me when the deadline is drawing near? I am sorely disappointed.

this kinda strikes me as an off reaction somehow. Like it's a crack in the emotionless facade.

One of the reasons Clyton evolved into a proper scumread.

Oh I'm not hiding it. This is a crack. In these kind of situations, I readjust my approach. I mean, what am I to do against full of people acting on emotion? Logic will not help here unless they regain their senses.

This also doesn't feel right. It feels like he's being called out on having slipped out, and is now working damage control.

I feel Cabd made the roles to augment another person's similar roles. I forgot who it was, but your rolecop ability and another person's rolecop ability augmented each other. I think these are intentional. The problem is, it is not truly indicative of alignment, so like you said, it would be both town roles or a town role + scum role.

This also doesn't feel like an attempt to figure things out and analyze the roles.

His orcinus defense also didn't make much sense. All the while, he wasn't panicking, though.

Holy shit with all this emotional clusterfuck going around, I'm just gonna stop and give this game a rest until the next day. I applaud the people who are still sane and going through this according to their win condition.

Vote: orcinus_theoriginal

Orcinus, I don't know if your claim is true or not. I do not even know if it is town-aligned or not. But your intentions were made clear that regardless of who is lynched, you will intervene. Now, I have a request. Choose me as one of the participants, and preferably Mastin as the other. I will personally deal with her and expose her for the emotional rift-raft she is and outline every inconsistency and scumtells I picked up from the previous 30 pages from her (and the entire game anyways) while outlining my personal defense (something I already explained in some of the posts, not sure how some of them miss that but if they are truly town, they avoided it and went on the basis of an inherent scum action).

And here, he suddenly shows a burst of emotion, and basically does something that isn't logical at all. Defending orc, but then voting him like this, with no (gaaaah) trajectory. The read on me comes out of nowhere, too. Clyton's read on me seems highly, well, desperate, defensive, and quite frankly, omgusy. Because there's nothing that hints this direction at all. The read is essentially one that is highly convenient (given the scumreads on me) and valuable to him (given the lack of stronger scumreads on him).

i think i'll be putting up PV or LB up, alongside fery

we'll be doing either a lurker lynch or a no lynch

This is also something that looks bad from orc.

[Katsuki]

Also, if anyone could think I'm still scum at this point, I don't know what to tell them. Like, I don't want to chalk things up to personal bias against me b/c I'm a dick, etc, but I'd be at a loss for any other explanation for anyone voting me at this point.

I totally have you down as scum don't worry. <3

[CupcakePanda]

Also, if anyone could think I'm still scum at this point, I don't know what to tell them. Like, I don't want to chalk things up to personal bias against me b/c I'm a dick, etc, but I'd be at a loss for any other explanation for anyone voting me at this point.

I totally have you down as scum don't worry. <3

[MastinSSK]

I still think RBD is town because of the frustration they showed and the hope they gave up on this game, something that I have saw in past games I played in. Never once did I see a scum turned out from such a scenario.

And yet my nearly-identical behavior which came before theirs was ignored, not to mention, you'd be ignoring their read on me.

But then, everything went downhill after she acknowledged that she was acting based on emotions just recently.

Admitting to emotions from Rancid was a towntell for you, yet you're using it as a scumtell on me.

The reason I wanted orcinus to gladiate me and Mastin is because if it is 1v1, I can purely focus on her and drown out the noise around me (people can't even talk anyways, so that's good). Then I can finally lay out my case.

Oh, and every player defending me wouldn't be able to voice said defense.

JOBS MOTHERFUCKERS DO YOU HAVE THEM?

On the weekend. During the weekday, though, I have college-for-future-job, and, uh...well. I've put so much time into this game that I'm kinda...kinda failing this quarter. (Which should be the final quarter.) So yesbutno.

5th quote: Self-explanatory based on my post. My suspicion fell on Mastin because of how she came up with the 4 mafia/13 town, something that should've been common knowledge if everyone read it in the beginning, but turned out to be Mastin not reading it at all. However, withheld from that post, you never know if Mastin actually did read it in the beginning and withheld that, using the ruse of not reading the beginning post to get herself out of that suspicion I have on her.

This also makes no sense, since basically, there's no scum motive to lie about knowledge. The best I'd get from pulling such a move would be a faked townslip that would be exactly that--faked, and transparently so. Additionally, reading any of my scumgames (or MD theory for that matter) will show that as scum, I hold the philosophy that the truth is the most powerful weapon a scum player possesses. Lying removes it instantly.

7th quote: Mastin became an in-between. This is due to recent developments, aka you and CF against RBD and Mastin. I considered your side of the case and RBD's/Mastin's side, and I finally did a nullread on Mustin (on my first read, I didn't nullread anyone).

This makes no sense, because it doesn't really follow the debate at all.

8th quote: I said it in 3286; that's my reasoning at the moment. I may add more as I analyze Mastin's posts in this game thus far.

You're saying you need to analyze my posts in the game. Yet you're scumreading me.

From a player relying on logic, this is as close as a scumclaim as you can get.

You either analyzed them already and concluded scum or you haven't analyzed them and have that doubt. There's no alternatives from a town player with your self-admitted style of play.

I'll have some faith in the people I trust. Stalin, what will you do? You clearly don't want to lynch RBD cause you think he's town. Who's the alternative then? I don't see PV being scummy; rather, there is a lack of townreads on him.

Clyton, where did this trust come from?

There's also this.
(Also, I'm obviously slightly sheeping DesBRO, since they basically brought up my reasoning before I could vocalize it.)

That is fine. If you are town, then my advice is that you continue to suspect me due to the fact that I cannot be understood from your perspective. Use the foundation you have built (your trust on CF for instance, and extending to that, his read on me). In this case, do not think from your perspective, but other people perspectives (but mines, because you are not able to understand my perspective).

I'll love it if one of his reasonings for me being scum is invoking the trust of others, since he's attempting to do it here. (The difference being he's specifically manipulating F-16 who happens to have an opinion that's convenient for Clyton, whereas zMuffinman can't be manipulated by me and I wouldn't even bother trying.)

[Just Sheep Us]

Also, if anyone could think I'm still scum at this point, I don't know what to tell them. Like, I don't want to chalk things up to personal bias against me b/c I'm a dick, etc, but I'd be at a loss for any other explanation for anyone voting me at this point.

I totally have you down as scum don't worry. <3

If you think I can fake yesterday as scum, then I guess thanks for the respect to my scum game?

[MastinSSK]

This trust came from the fact that we were in similar situations. You were in a dilemma like I was. RBD was town, but I would rather sacrifice him for the sake of avoiding a no lynch. But I didn't find PV (where he was the alternative wagon) to be scummy based on my scum/town/nullread on him (or lack thereof). I was asking you for alternatives.

This is also bullshit. It makes no sense.

Look at any fucking game I've played with Mastin, ever. I figure out Mastin's alignment within a few posts every time. You know this, you've seen it, in the same games BRO was in. AoT? Took me a small number of posts to figure out Mastin was scum and I stuck to that vote for the entire three days it took to lynch her. Too Many Heads? I had her figured out within the first couple posts after she replaced in and stuck with that read for the rest of the game. In games you haven't been in, it's the same deal. The most recent Xeno game? I had Mastin figured out from her opening posts and "buddied" her the rest of the game because of it. Mastin is someone I have an amazingly easy time reading, I do not think I'm shooting in the dark with this, and I do think she is town here.

What's worse is you have a heavy meta player (F16) who really has no excuse not to know this about me/mastin if he's read ANY games me/mastin have played together. And he thinks DespBro has a point here. And he thinks we're both scum with AP because.... ??????????????????????? Scum theatre? ??????????? ??????????????

If my posts seem like they're injected with vitriol here, it's because I loathe that sort of playstyle. It's why (prior to the miller counter-claim) I told Nati I'm no longer playing the game - I cannot deal with players who play like that. It's fucking enraging because not only are they playing like that, they have the sheer fucking arrogance of thinking they're right about something I know to be 100% wrong. Like I generally have confidence in my reads, but at no point do I ever say something like F16 said recently ("I've figured out the game earlier than others"). Holy fucking shit that post. I could honestly not believe how fucking arrogant someone so fucking wrong could be.

By the way, anyone thinking Rancid's death after this is coincidental is an idiot or scum.

That's a rather absurd simplification of what I said. I said I found all three of you, Mastin, and AP scummy and I wouldn't discount you being in a team. If you are scum, you can continue lying about it but if you are town, realize that you misinterpreted what I am saying.

JANITORED no less. Rancid was JANITORED. And it was comments like this that explain that. 'Cause guess what? It's the worst fucking thing for the town Rancid's alignment regardless. Rancid's scum, the info is kept from us. Rancid's town, his town/scumreads cannot be validated, among them the vital (VITAL) townread on me. (Btw, that's why you can tell that, alignment regardless, I had nothing to do with the janitor/kill on Rancid. Him flipping town would clear me.)

Tammy knows this from Anything Goes where she was scum with Mastin and [masting] identified who she was going to mislynch. It didn't matter to Mastin that Angry Frat BROS pegged the entire scumteam because the rest of the town weren't going to listen to them.

I identified threats, and identified how players would be read. Correctly. You saw it in AoT as well. With near-perfect accuracy, I identified players' roles in the game, be it mislynch or nightkill.

So how would I have made a miscalculation this game, F-16, of this magnitude? Where all my supposed mislynches...aren't getting mislynched, not even close, and are scumreading me? In Anything Goes, there was a grand total of two players I marked for mislynching that scumread me. (Desp and AFB.) All my other mislynch targets didn't. This game, my "mislynch targets" have been Tammy, you, Fox/Hound, DesBRO, PV, and recently Clyton. And I'm null to scum to all of them.

Your logic, simply put, doesn't hold up. Because you're writing onto me my scumplay when it doesn't exist.

Also, the "ignore Muffin" advice was good so I am going to do that from now.

Because his read on me is inconvenient to your narrative.

[The Fox and the Hound]

Dang Mastin, that's the closest thing to a case I think I've ever seen you write! I haven't actually not-skimmed it yet, but dang!

[Clyton]

Easily could have voted Clyton, btw.

I see. A desperation attempt on me when the deadline is drawing near? I am sorely disappointed.

this kinda strikes me as an off reaction somehow. Like it's a crack in the emotionless facade.

One of the reasons Clyton evolved into a proper scumread.

Oh I'm not hiding it. This is a crack. In these kind of situations, I readjust my approach. I mean, what am I to do against full of people acting on emotion? Logic will not help here unless they regain their senses.

This also doesn't feel right. It feels like he's being called out on having slipped out, and is now working damage control.

If I were to remain logical in such a moment, I could've easily ignored BWS' statement and dismissed it as one of his regular commentaries. Yet I do not understand your attack on me for being honest in regards to being frustrated with the state of the majority near the end of Day 1. I had nothing to gain as scum for stating such thing. Now, are you trying to grasp at straws by using these kind of pitiful reasons?

Especially since this is how your scumread on me evolved. If that post hadn't happened, then this case of yours wouldn't happen. Now tell me what am I to gain as scum?

I feel Cabd made the roles to augment another person's similar roles. I forgot who it was, but your rolecop ability and another person's rolecop ability augmented each other. I think these are intentional. The problem is, it is not truly indicative of alignment, so like you said, it would be both town roles or a town role + scum role.

This also doesn't feel like an attempt to figure things out and analyze the roles.

His orcinus defense also didn't make much sense. All the while, he wasn't panicking, though.

You did not get the memo that I am also trying to make sense of how Cabd works his game and if that has an affect on my outlook of my reads or not.

For example, I did mentioned if roles had an impact on the alignment of a person (which is proven to be debunked). Think from Cabd's position, was it his purpose to put half a rolecop's ability with one person and the other half with the other person and make them both town? Was it his intention for them to work together in order to effectively use the rolecop ability? I'm not sure how this defense (rather a scenario) does not make sense.

I need more solid proof from you and your accusations against me rather than "this doesn't feel."

Holy shit with all this emotional clusterfuck going around, I'm just gonna stop and give this game a rest until the next day. I applaud the people who are still sane and going through this according to their win condition.

Vote: orcinus_theoriginal

Orcinus, I don't know if your claim is true or not. I do not even know if it is town-aligned or not. But your intentions were made clear that regardless of who is lynched, you will intervene. Now, I have a request. Choose me as one of the participants, and preferably Mastin as the other. I will personally deal with her and expose her for the emotional rift-raft she is and outline every inconsistency and scumtells I picked up from the previous 30 pages from her (and the entire game anyways) while outlining my personal defense (something I already explained in some of the posts, not sure how some of them miss that but if they are truly town, they avoided it and went on the basis of an inherent scum action).

And here, he suddenly shows a burst of emotion, and basically does something that isn't logical at all. Defending orc, but then voting him like this, with no (gaaaah) trajectory. The read on me comes out of nowhere, too. Clyton's read on me seems highly, well, desperate, defensive, and quite frankly, omgusy. Because there's nothing that hints this direction at all. The read is essentially one that is highly convenient (given the scumreads on me) and valuable to him (given the lack of stronger scumreads on him).

Based on my prior point, it is not an actual defense of orc, but rather an attempt to analyze the situation at hand. I do hope you are familiar with speculating and deducing one's alignment from information outside of that person. In this case, I was analyzing Cabd's game set-up and see if this has an effect on whether orc being town or not.

My offensive case against you will come later after my set of defensive rebuttals. Writing a defense is so much easier than writing an offense.

i think i'll be putting up PV or LB up, alongside fery

we'll be doing either a lurker lynch or a no lynch

This is also something that looks bad from orc.

[MastinSSK]

like actually when has POE ever worked on anyone ever

When said player is a bulletproof and can afford to use the tactic.

Also, kinda sorta not buying AP's apathy, 'specially given his claimed role, but eh. PV and Clyton first.

Btw, worth mentioning: while I can imagine Stalin as scum, I don't think the governor would be putting a scumbuddy in, not even against a lurker. So not scumbuddies together, but either could be scum. Lean towards yes for orc and no for ffery, but easily could both be town. (Eh, we'll figure it out later.)

(Btw, Beli's case on me is shit since it's basically, "Mastin wouldn't do that", when

I made an MD thread that specifically pointed out that I do that

.)

My strongest townreads, in no particular order* are {Fox/Hound, CF, RBD, Titan, borkcho}

And again, there's a dissonance via insisting RBD is town yet not taking their read on me into consideration.

Rancid Broderick Drake, ???, was Killed Night 1

Mac, who was Ricardo Soldato, Town Paranoid Bodyguard*, was Killed Night 1

*A Paranoid Bodyguard also acts as a modified rolestop

Again. Rancid's the main scum nightkill. No fucking way is him being janitored anything but design. His townflip would have been immensely useful, and their presence in the game unflipped was simply too strong. Janitoring them is the perfect scum tactic.

Mac's a tough call, though. It could be a scum double-kill ability. Mac might have protected town who was killed by town. Or the paranoid bodyguard bit acting as a modified rolestop somehow got triggered. Could be anything, but is most certainly not the main scum kill.

VOTE: mastinSSK

No fucking way would I kill Rancid.
Let's say that somehow I was scum and Rancid horribly misread me and I wanted to kill him while he still somehow misread me. Okay, then. I kill him normally. No fucking way I janitor him, since that'd create doubt on his alignment and thus, increase my chance of getting lynched.

There is no way scum killed RBD even if he is town considering their play D1.

No fucking way scum

wouldn't

kill RBD given his play on D1. His role was a threat. His play even moreso.

That was a damn scum kill, and if you weren't blinded by your arrogance, you'd see it.

Beli and I talked about it during the cage match and overnight. We both think that scum-orci, if he had to use the gladiate to avoid lynch, probably would have set it up differently than spending a lurker who might be a viable mislynch later in the game.

Okay, then. Scenario. Orc's scum. He gets lynched and self-governs. He puts two obvtown players in.

...What happens to Orc on D2?
He gets fucking speedlynched, that's what.

There's no way he could have played that other than as he did as scum. He HAD to put a mislynch in. What I think makes him scum is that a town-him would put TWO "mislynches" in rather than just one.

[Clyton]

I still think RBD is town because of the frustration they showed and the hope they gave up on this game, something that I have saw in past games I played in. Never once did I see a scum turned out from such a scenario.

And yet my nearly-identical behavior which came before theirs was ignored, not to mention, you'd be ignoring their read on me.

I cannot assume the credibility of anyone's reads, and I ask that others would do the same with mines. Did I not mention before early on this game that no one is confirmed a particular alignment unless they are dead and their alignment is revealed by the mod?

Meanwhile, for your behaviour, I did not genuinely see such nearly-identical behaviour. Maybe it is not identical enough, or I missed it. I ask you refer to me such posts that indicates such behaviour.

But then, everything went downhill after she acknowledged that she was acting based on emotions just recently.

Admitting to emotions from Rancid was a towntell for you, yet you're using it as a scumtell on me.

Refer to my previous point. Refer to the post cause I probably have missed it or skipped it during that past period because it wasn't as apparent to me. The only signs of emotions I saw that was still remembered by me was you against Titan.

The reason I wanted orcinus to gladiate me and Mastin is because if it is 1v1, I can purely focus on her and drown out the noise around me (people can't even talk anyways, so that's good). Then I can finally lay out my case.

Oh, and every player defending me wouldn't be able to voice said defense.

To be fair, you did not have much of a defense during the time I issued such a suggestion to orc. RBD was being attacked alongside you as an accomplice; therefore, he lost credibility in defending you. I probably have missed other people defending you, but I ask you to refer to the people who had defended you late Day 1 and I will probably take back my point depending on your defenders' posts.

JOBS MOTHERFUCKERS DO YOU HAVE THEM?

On the weekend. During the weekday, though, I have college-for-future-job, and, uh...well. I've put so much time into this game that I'm kinda...kinda failing this quarter. (Which should be the final quarter.) So yesbutno.

5th quote: Self-explanatory based on my post. My suspicion fell on Mastin because of how she came up with the 4 mafia/13 town, something that should've been common knowledge if everyone read it in the beginning, but turned out to be Mastin not reading it at all. However, withheld from that post, you never know if Mastin actually did read it in the beginning and withheld that, using the ruse of not reading the beginning post to get herself out of that suspicion I have on her.

This also makes no sense, since basically, there's no scum motive to lie about knowledge. The best I'd get from pulling such a move would be a faked townslip that would be exactly that--faked, and transparently so. Additionally, reading any of my scumgames (or MD theory for that matter) will show that as scum, I hold the philosophy that the truth is the most powerful weapon a scum player possesses. Lying removes it instantly.

I disagree. But that is a battle of philosophy and different playstyles. You are attacking me on a ground where it is not applicable to the game at hand. How am I suppose to rebuttal? Pick your battles fairly, lest this is also not an credible attack against me.

7th quote: Mastin became an in-between. This is due to recent developments, aka you and CF against RBD and Mastin. I considered your side of the case and RBD's/Mastin's side, and I finally did a nullread on Mustin (on my first read, I didn't nullread anyone).

This makes no sense, because it doesn't really follow the debate at all.

Don't say that to me. It was JSU who picked out a post which I replied to. Don't forget JSU has admitted to being clearly incapable of reading me. I don't expect the posts he picked out would have relevancy to the debate back then if he couldn't even understand where I was getting at.

8th quote: I said it in 3286; that's my reasoning at the moment. I may add more as I analyze Mastin's posts in this game thus far.

You're saying you need to analyze my posts in the game. Yet you're scumreading me.

From a player relying on logic, this is as close as a scumclaim as you can get.

You either analyzed them already and concluded scum or you haven't analyzed them and have that doubt. There's no alternatives from a town player with your self-admitted style of play.

And what's wrong with analyzing and scumreading at the same time? I also nullread, townread and read other factors of the game to read you, simultaneously sometimes. Don't ignore that. Does that mean I will become null all of a sudden in your reads list?

I wouldn't trust your statement on that. I'm not discrediting you, but you know too little of me to make such a statement. Going back to a philosophy each player adheres to, my philosophy believes that there is always an alternative. I did not reveal everything about myself and my meta, and CF can attest to that when I invited him into the off-site where he can analyze me in his leisure.

I'll have some faith in the people I trust. Stalin, what will you do? You clearly don't want to lynch RBD cause you think he's town. Who's the alternative then? I don't see PV being scummy; rather, there is a lack of townreads on him.

Clyton, where did this trust come from?

There's also this.
(Also, I'm obviously slightly sheeping DesBRO, since they basically brought up my reasoning before I could vocalize it.)

That is fine. If you are town, then my advice is that you continue to suspect me due to the fact that I cannot be understood from your perspective. Use the foundation you have built (your trust on CF for instance, and extending to that, his read on me). In this case, do not think from your perspective, but other people perspectives (but mines, because you are not able to understand my perspective).

I'll love it if one of his reasonings for me being scum is invoking the trust of others, since he's attempting to do it here. (The difference being he's specifically manipulating F-16 who happens to have an opinion that's convenient for Clyton, whereas zMuffinman can't be manipulated by me and I wouldn't even bother trying.)

It goes both ways. I believe in terms of invoking someone's trust, it is not alignment indicative and more like trying to garner support. Town should be ideally gaining the trust of many. They know they are apart of many, yet they are alone (this is no allegory, you can clearly get this and so can JSU). Likewise, scum can manipulate the trust of others to benefit the team/their personal needs. No matter what, invoking someone's trust is always attempted to get support, regardless of who they are, and I would expect a lot to happen in mafia games in general.

[MastinSSK]

AP worries me, but I don't really have anything solid to go on there. And his vote on me during the governor/gladiate thing pinged but he did indicate paranoia once or twice during day 1 and LB

did

come off incredibly town during that.

Meh. If I had another role, I'd be more inclined to sort him now. Since I can't die, I'm going to put that off for a while. He IS nullscum to me overall, but I'm not going to get into a debate with him when we have Clyton and PV around, still.

Beli still scumreads Mastin, and depending on how today goes I could see us putting our vote there today.

Yet I do not understand your attack on me for being honest in regards to being frustrated with the state of the majority near the end of Day 1.

Because it comes across as being scum realizing they showed a weakness and now need a way to have covered it up.

Especially since this is how your scumread on me evolved.

My scumread on you came from painstakingly doing analysis, and showing it in-thread, and reanalyzing everything and showing my thoughts. It had a clear progression. It was in the thread, laid out. Yours is hidden behind the shadows, broken and jarred.

Writing a defense is so much easier than writing an offense.

Especially for scum. Because town players don't give a damn about looking good, but scum players do. (I wish you were a frequent on MS.net so that this post could be a scumtell from you, but alas. It could be legitimate culture clash.)

Potshot guess at a scumteam would be Clyton, PV, orc, and AP, but eh.

[Clyton]

This trust came from the fact that we were in similar situations. You were in a dilemma like I was. RBD was town, but I would rather sacrifice him for the sake of avoiding a no lynch. But I didn't find PV (where he was the alternative wagon) to be scummy based on my scum/town/nullread on him (or lack thereof). I was asking you for alternatives.

This is also bullshit. It makes no sense.

Clarify what doesn't make sense to you. Don't be a JSU and ignore this request.

Look at any fucking game I've played with Mastin, ever. I figure out Mastin's alignment within a few posts every time. You know this, you've seen it, in the same games BRO was in. AoT? Took me a small number of posts to figure out Mastin was scum and I stuck to that vote for the entire three days it took to lynch her. Too Many Heads? I had her figured out within the first couple posts after she replaced in and stuck with that read for the rest of the game. In games you haven't been in, it's the same deal. The most recent Xeno game? I had Mastin figured out from her opening posts and "buddied" her the rest of the game because of it. Mastin is someone I have an amazingly easy time reading, I do not think I'm shooting in the dark with this, and I do think she is town here.

What's worse is you have a heavy meta player (F16) who really has no excuse not to know this about me/mastin if he's read ANY games me/mastin have played together. And he thinks DespBro has a point here. And he thinks we're both scum with AP because.... ??????????????????????? Scum theatre? ??????????? ??????????????

If my posts seem like they're injected with vitriol here, it's because I loathe that sort of playstyle. It's why (prior to the miller counter-claim) I told Nati I'm no longer playing the game - I cannot deal with players who play like that. It's fucking enraging because not only are they playing like that, they have the sheer fucking arrogance of thinking they're right about something I know to be 100% wrong. Like I generally have confidence in my reads, but at no point do I ever say something like F16 said recently ("I've figured out the game earlier than others"). Holy fucking shit that post. I could honestly not believe how fucking arrogant someone so fucking wrong could be.

By the way, anyone thinking Rancid's death after this is coincidental is an idiot or scum.

That's a rather absurd simplification of what I said. I said I found all three of you, Mastin, and AP scummy and I wouldn't discount you being in a team. If you are scum, you can continue lying about it but if you are town, realize that you misinterpreted what I am saying.

JANITORED no less. Rancid was JANITORED. And it was comments like this that explain that. 'Cause guess what? It's the worst fucking thing for the town Rancid's alignment regardless. Rancid's scum, the info is kept from us. Rancid's town, his town/scumreads cannot be validated, among them the vital (VITAL) townread on me. (Btw, that's why you can tell that, alignment regardless, I had nothing to do with the janitor/kill on Rancid. Him flipping town would clear me.)

Tammy knows this from Anything Goes where she was scum with Mastin and [masting] identified who she was going to mislynch. It didn't matter to Mastin that Angry Frat BROS pegged the entire scumteam because the rest of the town weren't going to listen to them.

I identified threats, and identified how players would be read. Correctly. You saw it in AoT as well. With near-perfect accuracy, I identified players' roles in the game, be it mislynch or nightkill.

So how would I have made a miscalculation this game, F-16, of this magnitude? Where all my supposed mislynches...aren't getting mislynched, not even close, and are scumreading me? In Anything Goes, there was a grand total of two players I marked for mislynching that scumread me. (Desp and AFB.) All my other mislynch targets didn't. This game, my "mislynch targets" have been Tammy, you, Fox/Hound, DesBRO, PV, and recently Clyton. And I'm null to scum to all of them.

Your logic, simply put, doesn't hold up. Because you're writing onto me my scumplay when it doesn't exist.

Also, the "ignore Muffin" advice was good so I am going to do that from now.

Because his read on me is inconvenient to your narrative.

[Clyton]

AP worries me, but I don't really have anything solid to go on there. And his vote on me during the governor/gladiate thing pinged but he did indicate paranoia once or twice during day 1 and LB

did

come off incredibly town during that.

Meh. If I had another role, I'd be more inclined to sort him now. Since I can't die, I'm going to put that off for a while. He IS nullscum to me overall, but I'm not going to get into a debate with him when we have Clyton and PV around, still.

Beli still scumreads Mastin, and depending on how today goes I could see us putting our vote there today.

Yet I do not understand your attack on me for being honest in regards to being frustrated with the state of the majority near the end of Day 1.

Because it comes across as being scum realizing they showed a weakness and now need a way to have covered it up.

Especially since this is how your scumread on me evolved.

My scumread on you came from painstakingly doing analysis, and showing it in-thread, and reanalyzing everything and showing my thoughts. It had a clear progression. It was in the thread, laid out. Yours is hidden behind the shadows, broken and jarred.

Writing a defense is so much easier than writing an offense.

Especially for scum. Because town players don't give a damn about looking good, but scum players do. (I wish you were a frequent on MS.net so that this post could be a scumtell from you, but alas. It could be legitimate culture clash.)

Potshot guess at a scumteam would be Clyton, PV, orc, and AP, but eh.

A frequent offensive as a town member is a disadvantageous tactic. You ruthlessly continue your attacks on me, but you make no case to defend yourself, which I believe you have even said so earlier in the game. What if your attacks doesn't break this defensive wall I put up? Then you expose yourself to being attacked by others. People will misunderstand you, and you will misunderstand them for why they are attacking you in the first place. Town players don't need to look good, true, but if they can't even post an ounce of credibility through defending themselves, then their cries for a majority lynch will be ignored. In this case, it's happening now. You're really no threat and many have their accusations against you, some more hidden than mines.

Also, pointing out holes in your attack. One, you continue to see that particular post of mines as an attempt to cover up when you refuse the alternative I presented. Two, you admitted that your analysis is laid out. If I read your analysis and continued to make such a statement, then that would lead to this; exposing myself in the more public open. Yet I still did just that. I am sure you can deduce what I have done. I baited you out so I can:

1. See what actual case you have against me.

2. Tri-read more of your attack/emotional-based posts, especially against me.

[MastinSSK]

Spoiler: Clyton wall

I cannot assume the credibility of anyone's reads, and I ask that others would do the same with mines.

For someone claiming to not assume the credibility of anyone's reads...you sure have asked for a lot of players to trust in the credibility of townreads on you.

I ask you refer to me such posts that indicates such behaviour.

Let's see. The massive wall war with AP. The fact that I fullclaimed, giving up on fighting to get myself nightkilled. My snarking towards players like DesBRO and F-16. The list goes on and on. It was in my iso long before it was in Rancid's. You coulda made a better case for Rancid copying me than you could for me being different from his.

To be fair, you did not have much of a defense during the time I issued such a suggestion to orc.

Bullfuckingshit. Both Kagura and Rancid have been insisting I'm town (WITH REASONS!) for most of the fucking game.

You are attacking me on a ground where it is not applicable to the game at hand.

And now you know the crux of what I've been saying about the scumreads on me all fucking game.

And what's wrong with analyzing and scumreading at the same time?

Because

you offered to enter into a fucking 1v1 against me

. If you analyzed things and found them to be scum, sure. Battle. If you were analyzing things and were beginning to scumread me, you'd point it out but not risk it. Because know what a critical piece of logical, analytical play is? CAUTION. Which you have displayed the entire game. You've shown a lack of commitment to reads, being willing to reconsider them. Meaning that if you hadn't done your analysis? You'd have taken that stance on me.

Instead, you admit you didn't do the analysis...yet you also insist on trying to kill me anyway. From certain players, this might be normal. For a fucking self-admitted logical analytical player, it simply makes zero sense coming from town.

Likewise, scum can manipulate the trust of others to benefit the team/their personal needs.

The difference, however, is clear. A scum player actively works to gain that trust and manipulates players. You've done that. A town player doesn't actively work to gain that trust and simply assumes it will be there. It was.

Because fuck getting into a 1v1 wall war, I'm spoilering this shit.

[MastinSSK]

You ruthlessly continue your attacks on me, but you make no case to defend yourself, which I believe you have even said so earlier in the game.

Yep! And believe me. It's not because I can't defend myself. I can. It's because me being town is so fucking self-evident that I don't even really need to bother putting in the effort.

What if your attacks doesn't break this defensive wall I put up?

If at first you don't succeed...
Try, try again.
Which, thanks to my role, I can.

(Or I could just get PV lynched and become obvtown because me bussing remains an abnormality in my play which while not impossible is still unusual.)

Then you expose yourself to being attacked by others.

Sure do. Don't give a damn. See, that's the thing about town players on MS.net. (Again, gods, I wish I could scumread you for this, even though culture clash is far more likely the answer.) They don't care about others scumreading them. They care

about lynching scum

, and devote all their effort to it.

You're really no threat and many have their accusations against you, some more hidden than mines.

I love it when scum call me not a threat. It really has a way of blowing up in their faces.

If I read your analysis and continued to make such a statement, then that would lead to this; exposing myself in the more public open. Yet I still did just that.

The problem is that you're insisting it doesn't exist, and have flat-out called me not a threat. You think you have the edge over me. You don't think pushing me will backfire, and you think that in a fight, you'll win because you think that no matter how town I look, your logic will be superior. That gives you plenty enough reason to 'risk' it, given that there's enough players potentially supporting you that you don't think you'd catch flak.

Oh, and by the way. A lot of your points against my points aren't direct counters, but are more misdirections. Wish I could explain that.

(Not spoilering this one. 'Cause I didn't feel like it.)