Tales of You (Endgame)

[PeregrineV]

Other than Mastin waxing scumetic, not much is going on in the thread. Would like to hear if neighborhood activity is more informative at least.

@Carbon-

Did you neighborize another group? And who is in your first group (Yarrgarda, you, Foxhound)?

[Clyton]

Other than Mastin waxing scumetic, not much is going on in the thread. Would like to hear if neighborhood activity is more informative at least.

@Carbon-

Did you neighborize another group? And who is in your first group (Yarrgarda, you, Foxhound)?

He neighbourized the Xillia group, in which me and Titan are in. We are discussing this predicament as we speak.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

The day 1 neighborhood was CF, brodesp, kagura, and GiF/Yggdra

[Clyton]

Correction, I don't think I will be getting any discussion from Titan anytime soon. They are busy lel

[Breakfast With Sandy]

speaking of neighborhoods, do we want to claim our games and see what future neighborhood compositions would be?

I can think of reasons not to. It could be that there's some scum ability tied to the neighborhood of the target.



RBD said his game was Symphonia. I wonder if there's something in the Symphonia lore that would explain being janitored.

[MastinSSK]

If anything it's odd that she is not just straight up attempting to rebut you.

Combination of factors. Partly understanding pie's concern about drowning things out in noise. Partly because I frankly don't feel the need to defend myself. And largely because while I'm obviously hoping to bridge the gap, there's only so much I can do when pie keeps on blowing the damn bridge up.

You say your approach to the game has changed, but other than you suddenly asserting that you are a town leader and everyone should follow you, I don't really feel like anything actually different is happening?

Not really sure how it's not obvious. The tone of my posts is different. (It certainly feels different, at least!) How I'm approaching the game is different. My posting towards others is different. It's an entirely new mindset. (Rather, I think it'd be more accurate to say it's a mindset that I had in what I consider to be the peak of my town play, which was...I think in either 2011 or 2012. The year where I had excellent reads, reasoning, and was charismatic, and transparently town. [Rather, my scumgame was bad enough that people not seeing it instantly townread me. ] One year was the peak of my townplay, and the following year my best scumplay. So probably 2012, with 2013 being scumplay and this year being them averaging out.)

An element of myself that is now coming back out, slowly. Admittedly, not that many posts where you can see it. But while I am obviously a bit biased (it being me feeling it), I still think that it should be conveyed through the keyboard.

[PeregrineV]

Other than Mastin waxing scumetic, not much is going on in the thread. Would like to hear if neighborhood activity is more informative at least.

@Carbon-

Did you neighborize another group? And who is in your first group (Yarrgarda, you, Foxhound)?

He neighbourized the Xillia group, in which me and Titan are in. We are discussing this predicament as we speak.

Are you all together, or just you three?

[PeregrineV]

The day 1 neighborhood was CF, brodesp, kagura, and GiF/Yggdra

Do you feel that is a solid townbloc?

[AngryPidgeon]

The day 1 neighborhood was CF, brodesp, kagura, and GiF/Yggdra

Do you feel that is a solid townbloc?

Why would you ask about the neighborhood being a townbloc?

[MastinSSK]

Spoiler: Mental to-do list

I'm trying to figure out a reach-out to DesBRO. (Coming up empty, though. The only time I did a successful reach-out to BRO was when I had a mason role and 'crumbed it as said reach-out.)

I will likely need a reach-out to Clyton, but my wavering (and, ultimately, waning) scumread there is at least a start, since I think we might be coming to a bit of an understanding of each other, and that said understanding (if legitimate) means he can be town and can be worked with.

I guess I could also reach out to orcinus and PV, in spite of my scumreads on them, but aside from, "Hi, I think you're both scum", I can't really think of anything to discuss (not argue) with them other than that, because while I'm open to being wrong about my read, I don't see how I would be. Oh, I guess I also need to reach out to Red Gyarados, since I'm not sure they're town.

When it comes to Fox/Hound, they're not someone who I so much need to reach out on, so much as they are someone I need to analyze. They're already kinda sorta with me already, and my read on them is continuously changing, but I don't think that interacting with them more directly will help, and that the only way I can get a read on them that sticks is by getting bearings on them via other factors.

I removed Tammy from the list, because again, I'm not sure there's any reach-out I can do that Rancid didn't already do. If you want to talk with me about anything, Tammy, just tell me and I will, but I can't think of anything to initiate conversation aside from a weaker "trust Rancid".

Clyton/Tammy:

Keep us posted on your blazing. I realize there's business right now, but when you have the time, it'd be great to actually have neighbors who are sharing stuff about each other. Like overall thoughts and general impressions and such.

Understanding: The understanding is coming in Day 2.

So I can kinda sorta guess at it, Clyton, but mind making it explicit what the understanding you have is?

I can easily forgo my right to caution for a more aggressive, risk-taking approach if the situation is right for me to do so.

Why did you deem it appropriate to forgo caution for more aggressive recklessness near the end of D1?

I can tell you that the reasons for my illogical approach can be explained purely within my playstyle should the game continue to be more unfavorable for town.

If you're able to, I'd like to have some elaboration on this as well.

(I'm still not pleased with how orc used his role, but what's done is done).

If you're not pleased with how the role was used, what do you think (if anything) that means for orcinus's alignment?

AP, calm down a bit. You're going everywhere with your content.

What's your current AP read?

I already discussed RBD and his hypothetical lack of credibility, and Kagura is not in a good spot assumingly as he is getting assaulted from his neighbours because of his late appearance in Day 1 when the wagon was nearing its end.

What's your current take on Rancid and Kagura's stances? (And alignment, for that matter.) I'm especially interested, because of this:

Trust: I would take a majority's opinion as trust then one person's opinion. I think it is fair enough to state this because the majority is most likely town anyways.

I need to get better at this whole discussing thing. (There's more I'm sure I should be thinking of, but this is about it that comes to mind.) I'm sure somewhere down the line, there was something to come up in me that you didn't quite get either, Clyton, so me asking all these questions to you means it's only fair you get to do the same for me.

[PeregrineV]

The day 1 neighborhood was CF, brodesp, kagura, and GiF/Yggdra

Do you feel that is a solid townbloc?

Why would you ask about the neighborhood being a townbloc?

To get Breakfast with Stalin's opinion. If he thinks it's townbloc, then he thinks they are mostly town. If he thinks otherwise, then he tells me why not.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

3401 documented where my reads were at the end of day 1 during thunderdome. The only thing that has changed since then and during day 2 so far is my town read of kagura weakening a tiny bit and my read of AP diving and then moving townward some after lolgambit.

I feel like CF is being kinda cagey about the neighborhood discussion, but large neighborhoods are weird and I find them paranoia-enducing when I belong to one. In the Xenosaga game it turned out that my 5-player neighborhood contained 1 scum and the SK.

But, I think cabd would love the wifom and paranoia surrounding a large all town neighborhood.

I'd like to know more about what Titan thinks about the current gamestate.

Mastin's tactic-changes, I dunno what to think. The self-referential walls are tedious and waffly. I understand Yggdra's stance but it smacks pretty hard of tunnel vision. Would like GiF to maybe explain if/why he agrees with pie's take.

@orcinus you're too quiet for my taste.

[PeregrineV]

@Breakfast-

let's talk about Red Gary as a "Pretty Town" read. You have any specifics as to why?

[Breakfast With Sandy]

RG dropped from top tier town due to activity and due to my feeling they've kinda disconnected from the game state. The posts they both made last night were ok-ish, but not IMO really alignment indicative. notsci voting kagura after waffling on nacho-f16 hydra in another game in 5p-lylo (they were scum and hammered after notsci voted town) was fake-able outrage/chagrin imo.

[notscience]

you're fakeable outrage/chagrin

[Breakfast With Sandy]

you're fakeable outrage/chagrin

Oh hai!

How about some thoughts on how day 1 ended and what you think about day 2 so far?

[AngryPidgeon]

RG dropped from top tier town due to activity and due to my feeling they've kinda disconnected from the game state.

I just read some awesome GI MD posting about how these things are terrible reasons to read people over and I agree. Reasons not actions.

[Red Gyarados]

I have 110 pages to read. I'll probably end up rereading all 150.

So, you get to wait until I've done that.

In the meantime, my opinion is to sheep Bro's opinion.

And Nacho needs to be lynched.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

RG dropped from top tier town due to activity and due to my feeling they've kinda disconnected from the game state.

I just read some awesome GI MD posting about how these things are terrible reasons to read people over and I agree. Reasons not actions.

So the GI MD posting says this is a terrible reason for my read to soften?

hm.

[AngryPidgeon]

RG dropped from top tier town due to activity and due to my feeling they've kinda disconnected from the game state.

I just read some awesome GI MD posting about how these things are terrible reasons to read people over and I agree. Reasons not actions.

So the GI MD posting says this is a terrible reason for my read to soften?

hm.

Just saying this is absurdly shallow. People lose interest in games for any myriad of reasons. Giving them scumpoints or anything points for activity is lazy and not really addressing any motivation behind why they may lose interest.

So yes and its an easy point to make on top of that.

[AngryPidgeon]

Im not just sheeping a random MD opinion here, obviously this is something I have agreed with. Using activity for tells/reads is really not a good policy.

[Red Gyarados]

Counterargument

Scum ns is almost always less engaged/lurkaderpy than town ns by a huge margin

[MastinSSK]

I'm totally going to fail at this one, but I have to try. Best I can come up with is reading (not skimming) the whole iso and trying to find things that could still be relevant.

walking dead vibes, specially with gyarados, rancid, stalin, lord business, and titan. the latter two should nip their shit in the bud sooner rather than later.

Desp, does this still hold?

i also basically only have townreads still. if i squint really hard i can make up a scumread on some people (orcinus, drake, peregrine) but they wouldn't have any conviction behind them.

Come to think about it, I don't think you ever actually gave that reads list.

...Okay, you did, I guess, but that was a long time ago and reads change. Can I get an updated individual readslist from you? Then a combined one when overlapped with BRO's?

I'm trying to find common reference points.

HOLY SHIT MASTIN, YOU'RE CALLING ME OUT ON A MISTAKE WHEN YOU'RE DOING THE EXACT SAME THING AND NOT TRYING TO RECALIBRATE.
I'D THINK THAT AFTER YOUR SHIT IN AP'S GAME TOWN-YOU WOULD TRY TO, Y'KNOW, NOT SUCK THE NEXT GAME.

I'm putting that effort in right here and now. I'm sure there's been some sort of recalibration in your posting, but can you give me an idea of what you've recalibrated on?

In all honestly I haven't read a p5 post that I can remember yet. He's also like z-tier priority right now.

Is he still?

conclusion: ap is scum

Did you ever work out the dissonance, here?

the core of the game early on was very much mastin/tammy/f-16 once he moved in. Fox/Hound buddied behind Tammy, and RBD buddied behind mastin. This led me to strongly think that 1, maybe 2 people in that core group are scum. Fox/Hound and RBD make the most sense given how the attacking/defending/chainsawing mapped out.

Alright, so you're scumreading me, but assuming I'm town, do you still think this holds true?

I've thought nearly every one of mastin's pushes this game have been bad. I've been positional opposed to her at every juncture. Granted, this has happened with both of us as town before.

Most of them have been. But you're correct, it's happened with us both being town before. You willing to deal with the possibility it happened again?

But I don't think town muffin/nati would see the game so nearly identically.

My posts were made mostly before Rancid's, so I couldn't have been sheeping them. Do you think I as scum was able to predict their thoughts so perfectly as to essentially sheep-them-before-they-posted?

This like an inversion of that thought process (i.e., she's trying to refute the town read without understanding the trajectory on it, and the misunderstanding of why the town read exists is showing)

Okay, so I'm not going to ask if an inversion of a scum thought process is still a scum thought process, since it IS sometimes, coming from me. But if you still believe this, can you explain in more detail why you think that this is an inversion and why this specific inversion is coming from scum rather than town?

Yeah, there's often 1, maybe 2 scum in the lurker group, but being able to tell scum-lurk from town-lurk is a skill that exists.

Who would the scum in the lurker group be?

Why are you writing off mastin's push on you as being from House Party Mini mastin instead of from scum mastin?

Runs the other way, too. Why are you writing this off as being a scum me rather than having been a me from my town games?

ns's vote on me looks terribad if mastin flips scum.

What's your opinion on ns in general, my alignment aside?

Again, I'm confused as to why you too so long.

Did you ever give more extensive thought to AP's trajectory on me?

Here's mastin's initial attack on Titan.
Notice the post counts.

Would you listen if I gave an explanation for that initial attack? (Note MY post count.) Obviously I don't believe it anymore, but I can explain that little bit fairly easily.

Who exactly do you want to lynch today?

Cupcake and Yakuri would be the ones I'd most like to lynch. But that's less from a strong scmread and more frm a lack of townread.

I expect more from you :/

You expected more from PV. What do you think that says of PV's alignment?

AP, your refusal to lynch RBD makes zero fucking sense.

Do you think that this could be alignment-indicative of AP?

You know what I'm capable of doing when I turn on.
Why the fuck aren't you working with me.

Why DO you think AP didn't work with you?

We can deal with Clyton later.
pedit: ffery, are you trying to get me to scumread you?

Thoughts on both?

It's gonna be me/CF/Foxhound. Maybe p5? [on both Rancid/mastin wagons]

Assuming Rancid and myself town, what do you make of the overlap?

AP being strangely disconnected from me haven't helped, either.

Why do you think AP has been disconnected from you, BRO?

I feel bad trying to lynch people I'm close to.

Ask yourself if this could be interfering with your AP read.

Desp is still biasing towards town-Kagura. They've moved to my null-scum pile.

Desp, if you still have Kagura as town, what do you make of their townread on me? And BRO, if AP's result (and/or my theory on Mac) has changed your read on Kagura to town, same question.

ap you are being dumb.

Do you think AP is dumb as town?

Final questions:
What do you make of Rancid's death?
What do you make of Mac's death?

[MastinSSK]

The self-referential walls are tedious and waffly.

How so?

@orcinus you're too quiet for my taste.

What do you think this means for orc's alignment?

Also, I realize I've posted a lot, so easy to miss, but do you have commentary on my post here to you?

For the record, AP's invocation of MD looks like bullshit. (There are reasons for Red Gyarados to be town and for said townread to be lessened, but while said reasons are very very slightly tied to activity, are basically whole different entities.)

[Breakfast With Sandy]

RG dropped from top tier town due to activity and due to my feeling they've kinda disconnected from the game state.

I just read some awesome GI MD posting about how these things are terrible reasons to read people over and I agree. Reasons not actions.

So the GI MD posting says this is a terrible reason for my read to soften?

hm.

Just saying this is absurdly shallow. People lose interest in games for any myriad of reasons. Giving them scumpoints or anything points for activity is lazy and not really addressing any motivation behind why they may lose interest.

So yes and its an easy point to make on top of that.

Maybe. It's certainly not enough to cause them to slide very far scumwards. And didn't.

From what I've seen notsci doesn't usually start as strong as he did in this game as scum, though he actually did pretty well at it in the Thad's Neighborhood mini. There was a fair bit of cross-bussing between him and a scumbuddy, which gave him reasonable excuse to stay active throughout what turned out to be a game with a very apathetic town. Nati's mini normal kinda fits what I think his scum game usually looks like - some early "obvtown" posturing, buddying the players he thinks he'd buddy as town, and then the activity fades.

This game is anything but apathetic so far, so falling behind isn't lolwow or anything. Brian asked some decent questions in his catch up posts during the later part of day 1 and I stayed pretty happy with them as a result. but I don't remember him really following up on the answers to the stuff he asked about. Usually town grab a loose thread and keep pulling. So yeah, all of this could be chalked up to a fast moving game. I was thinking about the Song uPick over the night phase and notsci played what I think was his quintessential town game there. Good activity at the start that didn't totally fade out. He worked on identifying his town bloc and pushed at them to pick a direction so he could follow.

It's a stale read at this point.