Tales of You (Endgame)

[orcinus_theoriginal]

i'm dyslexic with numbers

[MastinSSK]

"I guess I could also reach out to orcinus and PV, in spite of my scumreads on them, but aside from, "Hi, I think you're both scum", I can't really think of anything to discuss (not argue) with them other than that, because while I'm open to being wrong about my read, I don't see how I would be."
Mastin, 3 pages later (and I haven't showed up in these three pages): "Scumread at times, sure. But overall nullread"
what the fuck

Yeah, and? You're just proving my point, nullscumread.

You claimed that the circumstance of my claim made me scummier than rancid.

Yes. Your claim was scummier than Rancid's.

Not that I didn't interact with rancid.

Interacting with Rancid (rather, lack thereof) is part of the claim, orc.

YOU SAID THAT ME CLAIMING WHEN I WAS BEING RUN UP MAKES ME MORE LIKELY TO BE SCUM OUT OF ME AND RANCID.

Yes. Because Rancid was upfront about their ability, and had posting that made perfect sense. Doesn't mean that you are scum. Just that of the two, you are the far, far, FAR more likely player to

be

scum.

Thus, my overall nullscum read.

[The Fox and the Hound]

Yggdra is null leaning towards "uh how the he'll are ppl townreading them?". I disliked the writing orci off as town for a claim when people jg Ave been talking all game about how roles do not mean anything in this game

They have the ~town passion~ off the top of my head, but I'm pretty sure there were other things too.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

really quickly (not doing mafia tonight, fuck that)

mastin when you say someone is so scum that you don't even bother to interact with them

that is not a fucking nullread

[PeregrineV]

And governor is a town role.

Bluntly, no.

I've seen a shitload of scum governors; I've not encountered a town one.

Yeah, I know they exist; the role is supposed to be alignment-null. But my experience has been scum governors. ESPECIALLY self-governing.

From a balancing point, if Orcinus is scum, then town can lynch some other scum, scum Orcinus can govern it, put 2 townie's in instead so a mislynch occurs, then night comes and another townie can die, and the scum-Orcinus-governor mislynch can't even be docced like a Nk

could

be.

Is there a reason I should think a scumrole would exist that can punish town for catching scum by not only stopping the scum-lynch but throwing a town player into it instead making it a mislynch?

Mostly for that reason I have Orcinus as not-scum. But, since I know he can actually play, he should probably come in and actually play.

[Titan]

Maybe it's an artifact of where your focus currently is, but I feel like there's a whole game going on here, not just those 3 players.

I'm trying to move up a few thousand feet in terms of how I'm viewing the game, because I'm kinda tired of talking to the same people with the same disagreements and agreements constantly.

From my perspective, it's not moving the game forward. And I don't think anything is going to seriously move the game forward until more players are really engaged today.

Of course there is a whole game going on and I didn't direct my wall at you so I have no idea why you would be tired of talking about it. I particularly don't like posts like these where you discourage analysis or look down upon town players working with each other.

I have been moving the game forward by collaborating with townreads and making sure we lynch one of Mastin/AP today. I really don't want this to turn into yet another noisy day where Mastin and AP make a spectacle of themselves and we lynch another lurker. My objective is to make sure we drive one of their lynches through today and I need you on my side if you are town.

I'm on town's side. And I obviously think that means we're on the same side.

I'm not trying to discourage analysis at all, and in fact your criticisms (and tammy's) on day 1 about my typical play were noted and internalized. How that manifests in my in-thread behavior, I don't know yet. I probably won't know what I'm actually doing differently as opposed to what I'm thinking until I get feedback about it in games.

Whoever we vote today aside, there are other reads to solidify today. I guess what's frustrating me is that you're talking about 3 players I think are town. Of the three, the only one I have even the slightest niggle about at the moment is Titan and it's a very small niggle that I feel pretty sure comes down to playstyle/philosophy.

The bit about the same disagreements over and over is a general whine not directed at you.

Just out of curiosity's sake, I'd love to know what that niggle is.

[Titan]

And governor is a town role.

Hi! Cabd game, there's more to it than x is a town role.

I've been a scum self-governor, and mattp was a scum self governor in Baltomeet.

You weren't in Baltimore meet game. Stalker!

And Axxle was a town self governor in Reckoning conversely :p

Heh...well at least I didn't barge into that one and I remained the creepy peeping Tammy behind the windows where I belonged :p

Oh, I didn't know that about axle.

[Titan]

Orc's role does somewhat clash but I'm scumreading Rancid so I am not overly worried about it. What about Orcinus concerned you beyond the possibility that Nacho bussed?

Mostly the concern that he bussed.

[Titan]

Mastin's posts from last night are rubbing me the wrong way.

I think I'm going to take a nap, I'll respond to falcons bro wall later.

[MastinSSK]

Btw, thought of something this morning when driving, need to fact-check. A reason scum might want me dead is that Lord Business will return to the game. I forget when LB said exactly, but if LB's back tomorrow, it has the potential to clear me. Depending on how his role works, fully possible that he has full interactions with all the other dead people right now. And they'd be screaming I'm town, right now. Meaning that if I were to live long enough for LB to come back, then LB would be able to (in a way nobody else could) scream about how fucking moronic it is to think anything other than myself and Rancid both being town. (Need to factcheck, though.)

mastin when you say someone is so scum that you don't even bother to interact with them
that is not a fucking nullread

Which would be true if that's what I said. But it wasn't. I said I didn't know what I could say to you, other than that I had a scumread on you at the time. Not that I wasn't going to bother interacting--quite the opposite, I was trying to figure out a way TO interact.

Is there a reason I should think a scumrole would exist that can punish town for catching scum by not only stopping the scum-lynch but throwing a town player into it instead making it a mislynch?

Aside from Cabd-game being Cabd-game? Yeah. Look up Judge, Jury, and Executioner for a similar mechanic, but throughout the whole game rather than a one-time role. The town could catch one scum (and did), but without two scum as voted, couldn't win the game.

Mastin's posts from last night are rubbing me the wrong way.

Join the club. Apparently the entire rest of the fucking town is.

(Helpful hint about me. A scum-me doesn't really tick people off. A scum me is nice. Friendly. Likes to be your ally and buddy-buddy. My play this game...isn't that. Not even remotely.)

[Breakfast With Sandy]

(Helpful hint about me. A scum-me doesn't really tick people off. A scum me is nice. Friendly. Likes to be your ally and buddy-buddy. My play this game...isn't that. Not even remotely.)

I haven't meta'd you in a while, but I'm pretty sure this is patently false. It depends entirely on who you choose to buddy. I recall that scum-you is obnoxious to people you think you can lynch. Adding this to my list of stuff to research.

[Just Sheep Us]

yeah, like anything goes

oh wait, we're not allowed to reference that game anymore. i forgot. evidently so did mastin.

[MastinSSK]

It depends entirely on who you choose to buddy. I recall that scum-you is obnoxious to people you think you can lynch. Adding this to my list of stuff to research.

I buddy everyone, even the people I try to mislynch. I only turn obnoxious as a defensive mechanism. I explained this already.

Like, you can look at basically any scumgame of mine. I'll vote them, and still be all polite. As just the two most recent examples, Malakittens's game (modded as Kit) had me be polite to everyone, except Squirrel Girl whose tell on me was BS. I was calling them scum, but I did so fairly politely all things considered. But a stronger example is the lylo alone in Paranoia (modded by Antihero)--I hardcore. HARDcore. Attacked MTD out of the gate...but I treated the matter respectfully and with tact; it paid off, because MTD did

not

vote me, and even attacked shos. I hardcore attacked shos...who did

not

vote me for it. Because I kept that politeness overall.

And kept it throughout the whole game.

The most recently-completed towngame example contrasting is House Party...where I most certainly was not diplomatic by any stretch of the imagination during any period of the game. The closest I got to being diplomatic? D2, and during the latter half of D3 where my posts were heavily-tinted with (justified) spite and a fair amount of snark. Maybe there's a "you're wrong" in there that was done with tact, but overall, not buddy-buddy even remotely; entirely abrasive.

[MastinSSK]

yeah, like anything goes

oh wait, we're not allowed to reference that game anymore. i forgot. evidently so did mastin.

And what you're yet again forgetting is that Anything Goes had me legitimately scumread you, thus the hostility.

Guess what?

On all future days I played in?

I was buddy-buddy diplomatic. Towards Mac. Towards PA. Towards Brian Skies. You can see it quite clearly in my posting. When I was scum, the only time I broke the buddy-buddy was when I had a legitimate scumread, thus, was legitimately scumhunting, and thus...was acting like town.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

polite and obnoxious aren't mutually exclusive.

Maybe you have a blind spot about how your posts are taken at times.

[MastinSSK]

By the way, couldn't find anything about LB having a return date. But I did find other things.

I called AP from early on, people just weren't that interested in listening.

LB had a scumread on AP. If I'm remotely close to accurate on who LB is,

this is not trivial; LB has extensive experience with AP

.

So much for a no lynch huh orcinus?

A comment that, again, makes me deeply concerned about orcinus's alignment.

I think mastins hydra is town. I've seen SSK as scum and he wasn't vey involved. Maybe t was a bad game, and I know mastin has been leading this.

But with mastin when she replaced in to too many heads she seemed far more concerned wit buddying and bucking the trend of others opinions. Here she seems to have just attacked, and stubbornly so.

But please feel free to point to why she might be scum.

Also not trivial, given that if I'm remotely correct, LB has extensive experience with myself as well

. Furthermore, know what this means?

All three dead players.
All fucking three.
From lynch to nightkill.
Even if Rancid somehow wasn't town. (They are.)
All of them.

Had me as a fucking townread.

Players claiming to be doing NKA and to some extent VCA are liars if they don't take that into consideration for their read on me. 'Cause that?
Is not some trivial fucking statistic. That is extremely relevant to the whole core of the game.

[MastinSSK]

Maybe you have a blind spot about how your posts are taken at times.

At times, yes. Especially as town.

Not consistently, though. This is one thing that anyone playing with me in scumgames will have figured out long, long ago: I have such a self-awareness as scum that basically nothing escapes my attention. I know everything about myself. Including how I'm perceived. In fact, that is my strength as a scum player. The thing making me as dangerous as I am. Because I know how others will see me, and am able to manipulate that to my advantage, in ways that they can never predict.

Heck! Even if they KNOW this fact about me. Even if they fucking know that I can manipulate their perception to my advantage and are on-guard for it. Even if they're fully aware that I can do that. The thing that makes me truly dangerous as scum? Is that I know that they know, and can manipulate their knowledge of my competency. (This is a rare gift, and only two players have thusfar proven they can 100% overcome it: zMuffinman and AP. [zMuffinman is better at ignoring my misdirection, but not at picking up my plans. AP is better at picking up on my actual plan, in spite of falling for my misdirection. Both have the accuracy, and reasons why they're dangerous BEYOND the accuracy.] Most scum players if truly caught by another player sort-of have a meltdown. They know they're caught, for all the right reasons, and there's no defense. Me? No, I turn that into my weapon, and let the town players serve my agenda with them still convinced they've pinned me down.) Circumstantial awareness is my gift. Being in-tune with the gamestate, as it was, is, and shall be. That's why I win scumgames. Because I know how my posts are taken.

[Red Gyarados]

Brian supports the Kagura vote.

Will read the many walls of this game when I can. Notty and I are still trying to synch up on our reads and he keeps sending me walls.

[MastinSSK]

...Not that it's going to hold particularly large amount of weight, but another aspect of the difference between me:
A town-me rambles in-game, and might rant post-game.
A scum-me rants in-game, but will ramble post-game.

In practical terms, this means a scum me typically doesn't talk about the scum me, instead choosing to talk about why my play is the town-me. (In spite of it not being.)
A town me talks about the scum me all the time, but doesn't really bother to say why my play isn't the scum me that much. If it's done at all, it's done as a side-note, whereas when scum, it's the central point of the rant.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

I think your weakness is that you don't do it as theater in the round.

We'll see.

[MastinSSK]

Hear ye, hear ye, gather 'round!
There be much entertainment abound!
Let me guide ye on a ship and sail,
As I narrate to ye the Ballad of Tales!

It starts with an entrance full of trolling,
That posted by me dearest of Kings.
While the miller claim was something to hate,
It's far too bold to be scum out of the gate.

He was there to claim his true role,
One he couldn't help but mix in some troll.
But look for the motive, of which he had,
And you see none but good, not a hint of bad.

It is not a role that they would create,
Since who the blazes fakes a gladiate?!?
Thus the question is merely of his side,
And I say it be town with a great pride.

He was open, he didn't hold it back,
And he explained his actions, not reversing tracks.
The claim could have been swept under the rug,
But it wasn't, deception none.

You may ask, "but they said hated miller",
But read that post a little bit clearer.
They hinted at the falsities that were there,
While saying they were serious, no dare.

And look at the timing, those brave men!
They said it unprompted, on page thirty-seven!
And you'll note that while they answered about the truth,
They kept silent about their lies, not letting them loose.

You might ask how that could possibly be town,
But I refer you to any game where fakeclaims go down.
Town players will be vague and refuse to fill the details,
Whereas scum players have the answers, having plans not to fail.

Thus their efforts can be clearly shown
To be in a town mindset that's well-known.
As much as it is a bad precedence for me,
The mason claim is an example from House Party.

I could have made up details about the claim,
But decided not to, because that'd be lame.
If I was scum, though, I assure you I'd be all-in,
Because taking back a fakeclaim is guaranteed to blow the win.

Rancid's mind may not be the same as mine,
But we are similar, two of the same kind.
You know this logic does hold great truth,
But let's discard his role and begin anew.

Let's start with my accuracy,
How when in the game, he I can read.
As town or as scum, I never have failed,
Even if in apathy he wasn't nailed.

It runs both ways, I will happily admit,
His reads on me aren't shit.
So know that there is no chance that the other we could fool,
That perfect accuracy reduced to being the other's tool.

So yes we must by virtue share an alignment,
And which it is should be the only question.
Later is the time to detail why I joined his crew,
Because now is the time to see N1, and realize truth.

F-16 when you lynch us and we flip town will you remember that mastin is town? Or will you sit there with your mouth firmly attached to the scum's dick still, because the amount of willful suspension you are showing is exactly why I had you down as scum for as long as I did.

I present to you this little tidbit,
Which may seem insignificant.
Until you remember what happened,
And that they ended up jan'd.

You must also keep in your minds about Rancid,
That in addition to gladiating, there's something else he did:
His role if left alive and unblocked the first night,
Would clear not only him, but also the person he was to fight.

Because his role would be confirmed as existing,
And so too would be confirmed the age of the one combatting.
Thus the role would prove to be a double-threat,
And scum NOT killing him would be left with regret.

But I am running low on my precious time,
But use this break to search, and you'll find:
What I say right now holds to it great truth,
So stay tuned as I begin prepping chapter two.

(This is not the entire ballad. This is the intro and first chapter. How many chapters it takes to convey the whole story, I dunno. Stay tuned!)

[MastinSSK]

(And, yes. There's a point to this. Just wait for me to finish. Will take a while, though, since this is essentially summarizing each player and every aspect about them. Rancid's important enough that he took too much time for me to tackle in one sitting.)

[Yulia Jue]

CupcakePanda was prodded.

[CarbonFiber]

My thought is vig. I've given some minor thought to 2 scum teams, and it might make sense of where the daytime lines get drawn, but I'm nowhere near convinced that's what's going on.

Please tell me this isn't real

I forget who suggested it. I've rolled it around in my head a few times. I dunno. I don't think so. The puzzle pieces aren't coming together very easily, though.

I think the huge divergence in RBD reads indicates two very different fragments of town in this game, with two strongly divergent ideas about what is going on.

Talk to me about these fragments of town with strongly divergent ideas. Obviously, at a surface level, it is apparent to anyone that reads the thread but I am hoping that you could elaborate in depth on these ideas.

What do you think is going on in the game and why do you think these divergent ideas developed. Do they say anything about the affiliation of the people who have these ideas? Where do you currently stand? Have your thoughts been updated since the last time you posted your list of reads?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

fery i'm caught up