Tales of You (Endgame)

[Yulia Jue]

Votecount 2-10

With 14 players alive, it will take 8 votes to lynch or nolynch.


MastinSSK (4): Just Sheep Us, PeregrineV, Yggdra Union, orcinus_theoriginal
Breakfast With Stalin (1): CupcakePanda
Nachomamma8 (3): Titan, Red Gyarados, AngryPidgeon,

MastinSSK

CupcakePanda (1): The Fox and the Hound


Not Voting (4): Nachomamma8, Carbon Fiber, Clyton, Breakfast With Stalin

Mod Notes:

~CupcakePanda is due for a replacement if he doesn't ping in soon
~Nachomamma8 is replacing kagura, borkhead is no longer in the game

With 14 players alive, deadline is set for 15 days: (expired on 2014-05-07 22:26:21)

[Titan]

I was going to vote mastin, but I suddenly skimmed the last two pages (although don't plan on reading much of it until later) and happened upon things that pretty much trashed my resolve.

Although: Mastin, is there any other game where you were simply "too mean" to be scum?

Before I get into the rest of the stuff, let me just point out this. Aside from my lack of paranoia on Nacho and assuring others that Nacho would be townreading me, there is literally nothing.
NOTHING.

In my posting.

That I can buy.
Even remotely.

A town Nacho not townreading. Those two things (which are arguably the same thing) are literally the only damn thing in my play that could possibly have pinged Nacho on me, at all. Yet this? This says otherwise. That he's either nulling me or deeply concerning (even scumreading) me. Which quite frankly, I don't buy. From BROseidon who (after this game) will have a Fate-reading-RECK card on me, sure, yeah, I can buy that type of misread. From Nacho?

Fuck no, I won't. That he doesn't have the townread is itself a red flag.

But even then. Let's assume. Just for a fraction of a second. That somehow. He thinks this could possibly. Even remotely. Be a scum me. Being willing to take that to a vote? Especially when I'm the lead wagon? Also not a town-Nacho behavior. ESPECIALLY with a lack of interaction before-hand! Nacho showing concern for me as town? Interacts with me. If he is sure I'm scum after that interaction, vote. Never a moment before.

But let's say that he did. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt, there.
There's the fact that he says the last two pages of my spewing has given him doubt-on-scumread. Which is bullshit, since the last two pages of me has been quite frankly the most nulled content I've been posting in a long time. The towniest aspects in the posting are things that have existed not only for the entirety of P3 of my iso, not only the entirety of today, but ALSO of my play throughout the game. So the reason for not voting me isn't valid, either.

Lack of correct read. Lack of interaction. Lack of proper reasoning, of the right chain of thought.

That is not a town Nacho. The bit at the end is thrown in as essentially an after-thought. Something like that, asked earlier and throughout the game? Yeah, town-him. Right now? No.

This felt town.

[MastinSSK]

Noise is a very useful scum tactic, but one that is often overlooked. Mastin knows this, but claiming she is using a scum tactic to get scum to NK him is a very illogical argument.

And we get a jump in logic here, so I'm just going to stop it there. Noise is not a scum tactic, to begin with. Noise may be a byproduct of scum tactics (typically, trolling when caught as scum), but is never the tactic itself. If anything, scum don't like noise more than town don't. This sounds weird, but let me put it to you this way.

Noise drowns out points. It drowns out content.

What if scum make good points? If their content is good?

You really think they want that good posting lost in the noise?

Fuck no they don't. They want it clear. So they keep the noise down. They focus it. Sure, if they think their content is bad, noise. Spam. Drown out the bad. But if they think they have valid points? They're going to keep the fucking noise down so that the valid points come out. And if you think that a scum me doesn't think I raise good points? If you think a scum-Rancid doesn't think they make good points? You can go straight to hell, because that goes against literally every fucking piece of evidence about our fundamental properties as scum players. (E.g. Rancid's arrogant, I know myself to be more logical as scum.)

Second of all, while I agree noise is anti-town, I never. NEVER. Would intentionally use an anti-town tactic as scum. EVER. I vowed that when I vowed not to wallpost as scum to gain an advantage. (Because wallposting as I did was anti-town. It was advantageous to a scum-me more than a town-me as a result, and I swore not to use it as a tactic.)

Third jump, my noise (while being noise) served a specific purpose; it was targeted at getting the scum players to nightkill me. That was what it revolved around. I kinda explained it, but Rancid also explained it the best; all it takes to understand is thinking like me and knowing how my mind works and what to me 'drawing the nightkill' actually involves doing. Because this?

Being super-town and catching scum is a way better method to ensure scum kill you

Is EXACTLY what I was doing, at least attempting to do.

PV goes back to being solid scum, btw.

[MastinSSK]

So.

Clyton's probably town.
Fuck it, I'm going to call Fox/Hound town.
I still think there's one scum and one town in Stalin/orc, but can't tell which.
I'm still scumreading AP and PV.
And now? Now I'm thinking Nacho could be scum, too.

Need to think about that, though. AP/PV/Nacho/orc, AP/PV/Nacho/Stalin, in either case, I'm not entirely sure this is how they play the game.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

(Said town player you vigged, who wasn't scumreading you at the time of their death and made reach-outs to you, by the way. Like I said, I read the game.)

I made the reach-outs IIRC. Repeatedly.

You read the game, but you took the wrong lessons away from it, apparently.

That or you're intentionally trying to twist my meta. And your coming back and displaying more understanding of that game weights my thoughts in that direction. :/

Okay, who am I wrong about? Who am I right about? I'm not going to be utterly incompetent and be wrong about everything, nor a scumhunting god right about everything.

your scumreads are apparently Nacho/orcinus/me/AP. Which means that you think Nacho bussed orcinus with the intention of "forcing" him to governate, and that you think scum-Orcinus put me into a 1v1 with a near-universal null read. Not any hypothetical scum. Me.

AP as scum at this point is almost an afterthought from what I can tell.

p-edit that looks like a reads update but I'm going to go ahead and post this anyway.

[PeregrineV]

Also Quattro I'd love a xillia nieghborhood if there are others and falcon wants to be kind.

Day2 has started. You must not be in a neighborhood, since you request one here.

I did tell Clyton that there was too much posting yesterday and didn't know what to make of it. I didn't really read most of it though.

And here you have it.

Thank you for the neighborhood, now I need to catch up so I can be a useful neighbor

Here you are thankful for it.

Nacho was in a neighborhood I was looking for his neighborhood behavior.

Here you seem to indicate that you looked for neighborhood behavior. If you know what I'm doing, I don't get the defensiveness.

Does that mean that not only is he not sharing any freaking thoughts in thread, but he's not in the neighborhood either..

You seem not-happy that Kagura is not sharing thoughts in the first neighborhood.

not yet. Clyton and I claimed to each other. But he hasn't been around much and neither have I. I asked him what he thought of Mastin yesterday, and he said he was catching up. I haven't heard from him since.

Here is where you claim actual neighborhood activity. You also claim a full townread on Clyton.

Clyton and I haven't talked a whole bunch in the neighborhood. I have a leaning town read though.

Here you are reporting again on your nieghborhood. But now you have a weaker townread on Clyton, as he is only "leaning town".

Though Clyton did mention thinking we had a lurker, I don't know why he thought that.

You can look at the number of views and the number of unique views. That should clear that up.

Clyton and I claimed to each other, and the use of his role is compatible with his behavior. Scum will know my role if he's scum, but if that's the case it's really no big deal.

More activity reported.

This is preposterous. I have given what I've said about the neighborhood and beyond what I've said, it's none of anyone's business. And considering the way you treated your neighborhoods in marketplace 3 as secret entities, I'm really surprised you're posturing about this.

Ummmmmm. I don't even know how to respond to the first part.

In Marketplace, I neighborized both scum teams, but thankfully kept them separate. I don't recall keeping anything secret, so you can expand on what you mean here.

And to compare it to the other neighborhood, which has been in existence for two weeks longer than the one I have, at a time when both of us aren't very active in thread, and i stated at the beginning of the day I wouldn't be doing anything with mafia for a few days is silly. Not only that to suspect us both is ludicrous.

Unless you SUPER DUPER strongly townread Clyton in the main thread, then you must have gotten your read from him in the neighborhood. And with 8 real days to talk to your townread, I'm not seeing any substantial output.

They are not giving detailed reports from their neighborhoods and no one is asking them to, what is yours and mastin's fixation on mine?

Actually

the vast majority of f-16's posting there has made its way here, either verbatim or spread throughout several posts.

[MastinSSK]

1 Kagura (borkjerfkin + nachomamma8)
4 orcinus_theoriginal
8 Breakfast With Stalin (Hydra of ffery and beli)
9 AngryPidgeon 9 ElementalHawk (Prohawk+3dicerolling)
13 Red Gyarados (Brian Skies and notscience)
15 PeregrineV

*grumble, grumble*
The name of the six change, that I have six does not. Realized that I eliminated Red Gyarados a bit hastily. I have reasons for thinking they're town and reasons for thinking they might be scum, thus their presence. Still trying to figure it out, but that might be a bit more spam than needed, 'specially since working on the Ballad of Tales will help with this and people responding to things I've said can probably already help on that front.

I might be getting distracted by the shiney in eliminating Fox/Hound here and having my vote on Nacho (and if so, zMuff/Nati, I do apologize), but this is something that I need to pursue right here and now to figure out. It can't wait.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

1 Kagura (borkjerfkin + nachomamma8)
4 orcinus_theoriginal
8 Breakfast With Stalin (Hydra of ffery and beli)
9 AngryPidgeon 9 ElementalHawk (Prohawk+3dicerolling)
13 Red Gyarados (Brian Skies and notscience)
15 PeregrineV

*grumble, grumble*
The name of the six change, that I have six does not. Realized that I eliminated Red Gyarados a bit hastily. I have reasons for thinking they're town and reasons for thinking they might be scum, thus their presence. Still trying to figure it out, but that might be a bit more spam than needed, 'specially since working on the Ballad of Tales will help with this and people responding to things I've said can probably already help on that front.

I might be getting distracted by the shiney in eliminating Fox/Hound here and having my vote on Nacho (and if so, zMuff/Nati, I do apologize), but this is something that I need to pursue right here and now to figure out. It can't wait.

If you're town then two of those reads are absolutely bad. Two others are iffy.

[PeregrineV]

Noise is a very useful scum tactic, but one that is often overlooked. Mastin knows this, but claiming she is using a scum tactic to get scum to NK him is a very illogical argument.

And we get a jump in logic here, so I'm just going to stop it there. Noise is not a scum tactic, to begin with. Noise may be a byproduct of scum tactics (typically, trolling when caught as scum), but is never the tactic itself. If anything, scum don't like noise more than town don't. This sounds weird, but let me put it to you this way.

Noise drowns out points. It drowns out content.

What if scum make good points? If their content is good?

You really think they want that good posting lost in the noise?

Fuck no they don't. They want it clear. So they keep the noise down. They focus it. Sure, if they think their content is bad, noise. Spam. Drown out the bad. But if they think they have valid points? They're going to keep the fucking noise down so that the valid points come out. And if you think that a scum me doesn't think I raise good points? If you think a scum-Rancid doesn't think they make good points? You can go straight to hell, because that goes against literally every fucking piece of evidence about our fundamental properties as scum players. (E.g. Rancid's arrogant, I know myself to be more logical as scum.)

Second of all, while I agree noise is anti-town, I never. NEVER. Would intentionally use an anti-town tactic as scum. EVER. I vowed that when I vowed not to wallpost as scum to gain an advantage. (Because wallposting as I did was anti-town. It was advantageous to a scum-me more than a town-me as a result, and I swore not to use it as a tactic.)

Third jump, my noise (while being noise) served a specific purpose; it was targeted at getting the scum players to nightkill me. That was what it revolved around. I kinda explained it, but Rancid also explained it the best; all it takes to understand is thinking like me and knowing how my mind works and what to me 'drawing the nightkill' actually involves doing. Because this?

Being super-town and catching scum is a way better method to ensure scum kill you

Is EXACTLY what I was doing, at least attempting to do.

1. No.
2. So you say. But, as scum, you would lie. So, you could be lying now.
3. So you thought the best way to use your BP status was to spam the thread? No.

PV goes back to being solid scum, btw.

See, this is town-me. The fact is that town-Mastin knows this is town-me. The fact he is scum-reading me means that this is not town-Mastin.

[MastinSSK]

I made the reach-outs IIRC. Repeatedly.

Well, you're probably right. My memory of games is weaker. But I also remember her reaching out in return, and not rejecting your reach-outs. Best metaphor I can think of is that you reached out and she reached out but that you were reaching out with a brick wall in front of you, stretching your arms out, on tippy toes, to barely touch each others' fingers.

You read the game, but you took the wrong lessons away from it, apparently.

Well, I admit that I wasn't that focused on the game after the first few days. I read the game more in-depth during that time, but at the end, was more skimming.

That or you're intentionally trying to twist my meta.

Like hell I would. I say something about a past game, you can bet your ass I believe what I'm saying about that past game. It doesn't mean I'm remembering *correctly*, but lying as scum is just flat-out plain stupid, since it's a lie that I can be easily caught in.

your scumreads are apparently Nacho/orcinus/me/AP.

Throw in PV and remove EITHER orcinus OR yourself from the list, and not both nor neither. But more or less, yeah.

Which means that you think Nacho bussed orcinus with the intention of "forcing" him to governate.

Didn't really think about that, really. I'm not exactly sure it can be made out to be anything. Nacho's a smart enough player to pull a magnificent bus, especially with planning before-hand. He also had other options, since he could easily force the lynch onto another player or force a no-lynch if he chose. It's an unusual choice as scum, but one that I can easily see being made. I'm not flat-out saying it did, though; you're right. It quite easily could be from them not both being scum. Orcscum, Nachoscum, neitherscum, any work, and are simpler overall theories. And it's making me think that the orc-Nacho team is wrong, at the very least.

...Which you might think is casting suspicion onto you. And vaguely it is, but I'm also not discarding the possibility of Red Gyarados being scum, for a very specific ~reason~ that I'm really not sure if I should elaborate on or not.

AP as scum at this point is almost an afterthought from what I can tell.

No, AP as scum is the default option, where I park my vote when not exploring other alternatives. I'll lynch him in a heartbeat. Right now, I'm going after Nacho, to see what comes from that.

[MastinSSK]

Just want to point out:
PV's misunderstanding of the role working means that if PV is scum, chances of players being neighborized having been scum takes a nosedive.

[PeregrineV]

Since when did you have me as a town read? I thought the last you said about me you could only somewhat see what I said as town???

1035 was my last read on you. I will update it soon, since I just finished your day2 ISO.

[PeregrineV]

Just want to point out:
PV's misunderstanding of the role working means that if PV is scum, chances of players being neighborized having been scum takes a nosedive.

All you did was link to me post to Titan. What do you think I'm misunderstanding?

[MastinSSK]

2. So you say. But, as scum, you would lie. So, you could be lying now.

LIKE HELL I WOULD.
BEST FUCKING WEAPON AS SCUM IS THE TRUTH.
I preach this.
TIME AND TIME AGAIN.
In all my scumgames.
In all my towngames, for that matter.
In basically every fucking MD thread I create.

Lying isn't pro-scum; lying is pro-stupidity.

3. So you thought the best way to use your BP status was to spam the thread?

Again a massive, MASSIVE misrep of my point. The way I thought was the best way to draw the scum's nightkill was to tick them off, to be a pain in their asses, by being up their noses, by hounding them, by bothering them, and shutting them down.

See, this is town-me.

Like hell it is. A town-you? A town you is logical, analytical, and sharp. Also, funny. A town-you starts out slowly but gets stronger.
A scum-you? Is full of misreps and snark. Starts out strongly and slowly lets the cracks show.

Not the best description of the difference between your townplay and your scumplay. It's a bit difficult to lock down given real-life contributors and general lurkiness vs. not-lurking in games, but it's the best description I can give.

[Titan]

So, pere, what you're saying is is that I have reported activity from the neighborhood. Oh you see silly me I thought your point that I hadn't reported ANYTHING from the neighborhood was you thinking I hadn't reported anything from the neighborhood. I suppose your dictionary has not anything meaning something different than mine.

I have never, not even in that quote you say I did, give a full town read on Clyton. In fact, if you read my posts you'll note the strength of my town read this far go like "would be shocked if they were scum". That's not a ringing town read endorsement for anything.

And no context nancy, I looked up how nacho behaved in tales of the abyss neighborhood to see if MASTIN'S assumptions on nachos behavior held up. Ie did he tell Bork to go to their hydra qt to discuss reads because he mistrusted his neighbors and therefore that made him town.

And yes, you did keep your neighborhood activity a secret in marketplace.

I really couldn't care what your updated read on me is. The gobbledygook you've spewed today is enough for me not to take you seriously anyway.

[Titan]

Like seriously I also in that quote that you cut in which "I give a full townread" I didn't actually give, I say I'm interested in something and seeing how it pans out.

I'm actually pretty weirded out over the concern about my neighborhood though the other neighborhood is of no concern, especially since "we were town reads" supposedly. If pere is scum there is more than op likely scum in that neighborhood.

[Titan]

Unless pere is scum with Clyton and he's trying to show interest to look town even though he knows what's been said.

[Titan]

Wait.

Actually pere might have town slipped. Hang on I need to check something.

[MastinSSK]

What do you think I'm misunderstanding?

My mistake. Thought you were saying something you weren't, about how F-16's role operates.

The gobbledygook you've spewed today is enough for me not to take you seriously anyway.

Would you take it seriously as a scum candidate, though?

I'm actually pretty weirded out over the concern about my neighborhood though the other neighborhood is of no concern, especially since "we were town reads" supposedly. If pere is scum there is more than op likely scum in that neighborhood.

*coughwe'rescumreadingnachocoughcough*

[MastinSSK]

(Apologies. Shouldn't have said "we're scumreading Nacho". But you have been, your vote's still there I believe, and I haven't heard anything about that read changing, so I assumed.)

[Titan]

He did mess up falcons role. He thought falcon was in the neighborhoods he set up.

Well, I might try to see where he's coming from if he could make sense, but the way that's going I'm not sure.

I think he did town slip though. We don't have a quick topic for our neighborhood, but the answer he have me about Clyton thinking that we had a lurker was for a quick topic. On the assumption that cabd is using ms private topics for everything, pere giving me that answer thinking I was in a quick topic means it's likely he's not in one because then he would have known that you can't just look at unique views and why I didn't understand why he thought there was a lurker. So, if a member of the scum team could verify if you have a quick topic that would be very helpful thanks!

[PeregrineV]

2. So you say. But, as scum, you would lie. So, you could be lying now.

LIKE HELL I WOULD.
BEST FUCKING WEAPON AS SCUM IS THE TRUTH.
I preach this.
TIME AND TIME AGAIN.
In all my scumgames.
In all my towngames, for that matter.
In basically every fucking MD thread I create.

Lying isn't pro-scum; lying is pro-stupidity.

Best weapon is not the only weapon. Saying you don't lie as scum is bullshit.

Remember my innos, and that TIP is confscum. Titus and PeregrineV are his scumbuddies.

3. So you thought the best way to use your BP status was to spam the thread?

Again a massive, MASSIVE misrep of my point. The way I thought was the best way to draw the scum's nightkill was to tick them off, to be a pain in their asses, by being up their noses, by hounding them, by bothering them, and shutting them down.

You think doing this in the game thread where this is doing all of the above to town is the best move, eh?

See, this is town-me.

Like hell it is. A town-you? A town you is logical, analytical, and sharp. Also, funny. A town-you starts out slowly but gets stronger.
A scum-you? Is full of misreps and snark. Starts out strongly and slowly lets the cracks show.

Not the best description of the difference between your townplay and your scumplay. It's a bit difficult to lock down given real-life contributors and general lurkiness vs. not-lurking in games, but it's the best description I can give.

Thank you for your entirely subjective analysis which is easy to ignore.
But, you left off the rest of my quote where if you are scum-reading me, then you must be scum, because town-Mastin knows I'm town.
Work on that for a while.

[PeregrineV]

So, pere, what you're saying is is that I have reported activity from the neighborhood. Oh you see silly me I thought your point that I hadn't reported ANYTHING from the neighborhood was you thinking I hadn't reported anything from the neighborhood. I suppose your dictionary has not anything meaning something different than mine.

I have never, not even in that quote you say I did, give a full town read on Clyton. In fact, if you read my posts you'll note the strength of my town read this far go like "would be shocked if they were scum". That's not a ringing town read endorsement for anything.

And no context nancy, I looked up how nacho behaved in tales of the abyss neighborhood to see if MASTIN'S assumptions on nachos behavior held up. Ie did he tell Bork to go to their hydra qt to discuss reads because he mistrusted his neighbors and therefore that made him town.

And yes, you did keep your neighborhood activity a secret in marketplace.

I really couldn't care what your updated read on me is. The gobbledygook you've spewed today is enough for me not to take you seriously anyway.

Like seriously I also in that quote that you cut in which "I give a full townread" I didn't actually give, I say I'm interested in something and seeing how it pans out.

I'm actually pretty weirded out over the concern about my neighborhood though the other neighborhood is of no concern, especially since "we were town reads" supposedly. If pere is scum there is more than op likely scum in that neighborhood.

You full claimed to him. He full claimed to you. You analyzed his claim.

If you didn't have a super duper mega townread on Clyton, why is the hell would you claim to him?

And same for him?

[MastinSSK]

Uhg.

This is a really stupid, impulsive thing to do. Massively anti-town. But I keep on thinking things through, and I see AP/PV/Nacho as viable, but not so sure about it being Stalin or orc. And the best idea I'd have for a fourth given that would be Red Gyarados. Yet the only way I can properly explain that is by explaining exactly what I feel about them, why I think that they're quite possibly scum, in a lolCabd game. Guh. I've gone this far with it, so fuck it, I'm going to explain it, anti-townness be damned, because it shows where I've been coming from on them.

Red Gyarados 'crumbed vig D1. I actually didn't catch it--Rancid did. They warned Rancid not to gladiate DesBRO, and that an attempt to would never go through. Vig being a guess for their role is basically one of the only reasons I'm considering that Rancid could have been vigged. But I also think about their role, and that, well...they might have had a dayshot, perhaps multiple, because SOMEHOW, they knew my claim before I had made it. Brian Skies (I think) said I was a "mafia treestump" WELL before I had claimed. My vote being disabled was known; that I was bulletproof was not. So I put two and two together, of them being a vig who shot me during the day, and could shoot Rancid during the night.

Should be a townclaim, of course. But I keep on looking at the kills N1, and I keep on thinking again and again that they both look like scum. And a scum vig? (Especially limited shots.) Is exactly the kind of thing I can see Cabd putting into the game, because people aren't going to think scum can control two kills during the night. That's why they've been going in and out of my scum list a lot. Because I've been thinking about what they likely have done and did last night, and also thinking about the targets last night and what they flipped and why they were like that. Because if Red Gyarados was a town vig, vigging Rancid...why would Rancid be the one janned?

Basically, my head's been going over it all day. And I know that revealing this is massively stupid, but I really need to say it all the same. I've ultimately been trying to read Red Gyarados not off of what I've speculated their role to be, but off of their play, yet even then...it's iffy. I simply...don't know for sure, yet this massive possibility has been such that I simply can't let it go unsaid.

[Titan]

He's full town reading m, that much I know.

I asked him for his name, but told him he didn't have to claim, I was just interested in who he was. We briefly talked about tales of xillia. Hehe full claimed to me. I full claimed to him in return. My full claiming doesn't mean I had him as full town. I quite clearly said I was interested in seeing how it pans out. I also quite clearly said that even if the scum team now know my role it doesn't matter a bunch.