Tales of You (Endgame)

[Titan]

NO WAIT SERIOUSLY ARE YOU POSTING TWO YEAR OLD META AS YOUR BASIS FOR READING ME WHEN THE BOARD GAME GAME IS LESS THAN A MONTH OLD AND I'M ACTUALLY MORE ENGAGED IN THIS GAME THAN IN THAT OTHER GAME THAT JUST ENDED AND YOU'RE POSTING TWO YEAR OLD META.

:/ :\
I really don't get whats so egregious about this that is making you rage. Its old meta. People reference old meta semi-frequently, antihero referenced ~2 year old meta of me recently and I just told him he was wrong.

Pere is annoying me.

[Titan]

And if you're going to use an example for someone, use a game that just ended, i mean like ffs.

[Titan]

AP - What is your Mastin read?

[PeregrineV]

Peregrine - I don't like interacting with you because you are annoying the everliving shit out of me (this I probably would have kept to myself/should have kept to myself but I'm going to stoop to your level after the defecating remark and quite frankly I'm not in the best place mentally to really think clearly so, deal). I don't like the questions you ask because they are stupid and don't go anywhere and or have already been answered like a million fucking times. Let's take the neighborhood stupidity. It's already been answered. I've already talked about the neighborhood, Falcon already saw where I was coming from, it's the most clear fucking thing in the world and yet for some unknown reason you don't fucking get it. It's just like just fucking like your role fishing accusation in the Board Games which drove me and pless so fucking insane because it was so obvious what we were doing but you kept harping on your point of view or how you were reading it and it ended up being a distraction because you don't actually read fucking shit when someone explains something to you.

So, for instance you say you haven't hear anything from the neighborhood, except then you go and point out all the times I did mention my neighborhood. No, it's not the most active neighborhood in the world. He hasn't been around a whole lot, and as I said AT THE START OF THE FUCKING DAY, neither was I or would I really be. It's really none of your business what we've talked about in the neighborhood beyond what I already fucking said in the damn thread.

You said this already, and I'm happy to wait. You've brought it up twice since then.

And I don't care about claiming when I am the role I am; I offered to claim yesterday. I don't care if scum know what I am because it REALLY DOESN'T FUCK MATTER. And, you know what? If anyone asked me to claim, I'd probably claim because I DON'T GIVE A DAMN.

I'm not pissed off at someone asking me questions, I'm annoyed at you because of the stupid questions and you know what maybe I'm still annoyed at you from the Board Game game. Sometimes I'm good about not holding onto frustrations from previous games and letting that go but right now I'm a little not quite right and things are bothering me longer than normal and I just wanted to punch you so many times during that game and you're making me feel the exact same fruking way. And I'm fucking pissed off because I've been trying like hell not to lose it in a mafia game and you're asking stupid fucking question and your attitude fucking sucks.

It's just a game. You guys lynched me, we won, Board Game is over and not germane to this game, now.
What attitude do I have? The attitude that you might be scum?
So, you think I should stop thinking you might be scum because it's making you mad?
Is that a dumb question?
Is that?

And using two year old meta is fucking stupid when you have more recent more relevant meta. And fuck you with less effective. If I recall, part of the reason why we didn't end up losing that game when half the town wanted to blindly lynch me, ffery/cabd, and aun was because of my efforts that last day before I got killed, so take your less effective and shove it up your ass. You don't know how to use meta and you shouldn't try.

Do I? You've been in hydras a long time now.
Do you think you are more effective in this game than Good v Evil?
I only use meta in the general sense. And today, looking at then and now, you are not scumhunting now, if you where scumhunting then (and you were, then). /meta

[Titan]

Yeah, I'm done with you Pere. I am scum hunting. I've been scum hunting and I'm tired of you trying to bait me.

But hey play to your Cassandra hilt all you want. Everybody else in the game can see the damned obvious that I'm town but no you're probably right I'm probably scum because my neighborhood's been a little inactive, though we have discussed some things when we have time, and I claimed to someone when I didn't have a full town read on them.

you're right you're so right i'm busted i'm caught you should just lynch me now everyone else is wrong damn.

[AngryPidgeon]

Alright Nacho, Bork left me with a weird taste in my mouth so I need something from you. Why is your mastin read is whatever it is right now? I kind of like this reaction; it sort of gels with what I'd expect given mastin's post, even if this is potentially just confirmation bias, but details please.

Confirmation bias? How do you figure that?

Ok, maybe this is why I want to see your progression mastin more transparently cause TBH I feel like the hydra was 90% Bork and I never caught any wind of him wanting to vote mastin.

Im just saying that mastin went from calling you conftown for a fairly shitty reason to "lolol Nacho is obvscum cause he isnt townreading me" which...if that happened to me I know I'd be looking a lot like

Do you think mastin could have said that as town is what Im getitng at, I get the potential scum-motivation/scumminess behind it, but I can see it being from town, especially considering the level of derp mastin is determined to play at right now.

p-edit: @Titan. Town. I think. There are a couple things about mastin that bother me alignment-wise (and a ton of things that make me want to just lynch her regardless), but I think shes town. Shes melting down and actively deluding herself about that. I think as scum she'd be more focused and controlled. Not impossible, more later on that hopefully cause there is one thing that feels off to me in a deja-vu sort of way, but the sheer amount of fucking nonsense coming from her right now with no self-screening at all is probably from town. When mastin word-vomits as scum there is at least generally a theme to it of some sort. Mastin has been way too all over the place this game for her to be probable scum IMO.

That said, her flop on Bork really bothers me and that one-liner about RBD having caught the Vig crumb (and also outing the perceived crumb) make me squint at my screen realllly hard.

The former I can see town motivation for, however bad it matches with the deluded world that mastin is currently posting from. The latter could just be a legitimate scum slip and involves RBD and mastin being scum together which would be fairly earth shattering for me, but I am thinking about it. BRO and Desp seem to find it likely and I -do- trust their judgement a little (they are one of the few I actually trust to read mastin other than myself) even if I dont like to admit to trusting others ever

[AngryPidgeon]

progression mastin

progression on*** mastin

[Titan]

But AP - what do you make of Mastin's posts to Ffery last night?

[AngryPidgeon]

Alright, I realize I missed a few pages before these last couple..random thoughts:

Fox/Hound: Can you two explain where exactly you stand on everyone right now and on reads that you disagree on, why? Im having a hard time recalling/tracking what you two actually are thinking. Your vote on me and unvote (fake edit) and vote on mastin and unvote is really non-committal. Do you actually have a reason for thinking Cupcake is scum or is that just a whatever vote?

Desperado: What is your read on Beli/ffery exactly?

Holy shit. Holy shit. Holy shit. holy shit. Please just be scum.

Belisarius: What is your read on Brian Skies and why? Have you talked about it with Ffery at all?

I can squint and make out a cupcake/mastinssk team, maybe. I dunno.

Is this based on connections or just individual posting? I still have less than zero thoughts on Panda's alignment.

The game still leads right back to MastinSSK and AngryPidgeon. Happy to see Mastin getting lynched today. I want to hear if anyone has any other thoughts before moving forward.

What are you honestly expecting people to say? Is there anyone in particular you think needs time to read and/or generate content?

Officially not reading mastin posts for now unless they get referenced somehow because fuck that.

re Mastin vote: We've talked it over a little bit. I still feel conflicted about the slot while DV still leans scum on it. We're both pretty strapped for scumreads.

Huh well this might explain why you have both felt fairly lackluster Today. Do either of you have a read on: PV, Nacho, F16?

[MastinSSK]

So last night, I had a dream. I was running a triathlon, and was actually doing fairly decently, in the lead. I did okay swimming, too, even though I didn't do great. But then, me and a group of others (nicknamed "Team *my other online alias*") got stuck, because part of the triathlon involved solving a puzzle for those who started running (you could start with any of the three). And my group got stuck on the riddle, unable to find out the answer.

It was laid out in front of us, right there, yet I could never actually get it. Others in my group were trying to solve it, of course, but they were relying on me above all others to figure it out, and there I was...unable to piece it together. I had ideas. But I couldn't make sense of things, because I didn't remember the full riddle, and every time it was told to me, I focused on random aspects and still couldn't quite figure it out. And I felt frustrated, defeated, a failure.

Another random aspect of the dream is that there was precisely one other person named: PeregrineV, who was a frenemy in the dream. That is, he is someone who I felt great hostility towards, not even hesitating to think of sacrificing, yet pausing, realizing that I couldn't actually go through with it, and that we were close.

Given the frustration and that I ultimately never won (though, admittedly, also didn't lose), I'm willing to place some amount of confidence that it was vaguely a metaphor for this game. You might think that this is crazy, to trust my subconscious, but I'm actually thinking of trusting this one, because when awake and pondering the dream? I realized that--at least in this game--that's how I'm beginning to feel about PeregrineV. That he's

not

my enemy, even though we've been opposed to each other a fair bit.
I already was thinking it last night, so all the dream did was bolster that feeling, that while I wouldn't be particularly sad to see him go...that, well. I'm not thinking he's actually scum for it.

But that's actually not the point of this ramble. You'd think it was, since it contains a slight reads change, but it's not. In truth, the point of this all is that I kept thinking about the dream, and as I was eating breakfast, I came upon a realization, on how the dream reflects how I think.

It doesn't matter if it's true inside the actual game itself. But I figured out something about how I perceive myself inside games. Inside ALL my games. When I'm town, I see myself as The Hero. The protagonist. Not necessarily leading the town, but there as an important, significant figure. I have an unusual outlook on life, one often inspiring others, and I can chain people together. I unite them behind a cause, and am a fairly competent fighter. I can suffer breakdowns, BSODing. I make plenty of mistakes. I'm a bit of a ditz sometimes. I can be an idiot. But in spite of that, I can still be charming. My naivety can be my strength, and whatnot.

There's probably more than that, but you get the idea. Regardless of its truth, that's how I've seen myself on some level, always. That I am the hero, whose job it is to save the town that I am now a member of. To fight with friends against the enemy, and to take a dysfunctional group and turn them into a lethal fighting force.

Vice-versa for when I'm scum, too. I see myself as the lead villain. Someone magnificent. With that same charm, but with a dark twist to it. Planning. Plotting. Cunning. An absolute master at manipulating events. Hamming things up, especially behind the scenes, but when necessary (in-thread), being all civil and kind and looking polite and all that.

So a genre-savvy villain, at that. One who may gloat in private, but in public is kept from being seen as the villain thanks to a magnificent stacking of the deck in my favor. And it's true. I can't predict everything, so there will be spanners in the works of my plans. But I do my best to adapt them, and by the time things are finished, nobody would even know that I was set back at all.

The dream last night reflected that heroic aspect. Because frankly, that's how I think, and it makes sense when you consider what I spend my time doing outside of mafia. That I'm a writer, that I like to spend a lot of time on TVTropes, that I am a muse of creativity, and a significantly large ham. (One reason I'd love to meet up with scummers is so that they could personally witness me Shatnering up the scene. ) So of course when it comes to mafia, that's what I see myself as being.

In this game, it's definitely been the hero, thinking they have the moral high card, but both being given and giving out "What The Hell, Hero" lectures.

But now that I know this, I'll be able to more effectively work with others, since I have that better understanding of my fundamental mindset.

/will read 169-current in a bit. I need to finish up my morning activities, like brushing my teeth, since I rushed straight from breakfast to here to type this up.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Select quoting doesn't work on this browser and I'm on mobile, so no quote tags, but @AP, Ffery is the one with the townread on Brian and I'm not contesting it.

[AngryPidgeon]

I'm pretty sure you did not answer this. I'm pretty sure I want it answered.

I think that was one of those two clownfucks arguing that me saying "I got a result on Kagura" and saying that "My role targeted Kagura but failed" was inconsistent.

At least that was how I interpreted and responded to it at the time, they can correct me if that wasn't their point.

But the other problem I have is that you created an imaginary dialogue with you and AP saying that you and Rancid buddying hard as scum while bussing Hawk is unlikely for you to do as scum as well as the you-AP back and forth but is it really? When Rancid was being wagoned, you, Rancid, and AP all worked really well in tandem to put in your best effort to derail the lynch. That fits in quite well with what you would do as scum. A pseudo-townbloc consisting of scum.

Yes and if you read Anytihng Goes, or any mastin game, you'd know that the odds of mastin bussing me to hell and back with us being scum/scum are reallllly low, bordering on not happening ever.

Tammy: What is your read on JSU? I noticed you mentioned lynching them then sort of dropped it despite no content from them that I can recall.

Another worldview is that Nacho and ffery are scum (either one of them or both of them). This is a little weaker but I wouldn't completely rule out ffery not voting at all on Mastin but happily voting BRO at deadline. (As an aside, I know you suspect them but you'd know there is not a chance they are scum if you see the neighborhood thread so I am basically assuming they are town and seeing who votes them). I also wouldn't rule out Breakfast being the last scum along with Mastin/Rancid/AP either. But there are a few things that heavily made me lean town on ffery so I am holding back. And her explanation that she didn't want to lynch Nati's townread in order to save him isn't a bad one either.

Uhhhhh. Explain your ffery reasoning to me slowly. This flows awkwardly with the rest of your post. First, Kagura could be scum (but dunno if it fits with your view). Then Maybe ffery and/or Kagura are scum but ffery is pretty town? Why bring her up here? Who would be scummy if Stalin/Kagura were scum together?

[AngryPidgeon]

Though Clyton did mention thinking we had a lurker, I don't know why he thought that.

Probably because its just the two of you in the neighborhood and the other supposedly had 3? that sort of independent thinking sounds town though.

I'm still concerned about desp/bro, and I know meltdown yada yada but what I'm concerned about is if you look at BRO in Wicked when he was run up and compare it to here, it just doesn't feel the same.

Ok, this justifies a bit of CF waffling about Wicked Mafia as much as he did, I didnt realize there was more context to that.

You've been a nullread. Not a scumread. But assuming a scum gladiator. Not a chance in fucking hell would it be Rancid.

K, so this is just untrue given your narrow suspect pool which has Orcinus in it rather verbosely. And the bit about gladiators is irrelevant and doesn't really mesh with you reportedly thinking Orcinus is 'null' right here.

In fact, Orcinus comes out looking pretty town here.

Except that you're trying to have cake while eating it. The circumstances of your claim were desperation, and a need to use the role to 'prove' yourself. Rancid, not so much.

Thus, of the two, Rancid's was townier.

It's a trivial argument overall, though. Since I'm not even sure of a scum gladiator. (I suspect as much, though.)

Huh, maybe mastin is just scum. This argument with Orcinus is really terrible. Orcinus claimed because he was getting ran up. That doesnt make him any more or less likely to be scum. And mastin is seemingly simultaneously arguing that one of the gladiators is probably scum and therefore must be orcinus (terrible) and also that the claim itself was scummy despite them being a "null read". I mean wow the cognitive dissonance is at an all new level here.

[Titan]

My read on JSU is all over the place. It's what inspired the JSU!town wall from falcon. There are some things consistent with his town game such as discussing positionals or at least are consistent with how I've seen him scum hunt and what he talked about in the Wicked dead qt. But there are some things that are off that I can't quite put my finger on, including the melt down, which now I'm bringing up again and it makes me feel like shit to even question if it was real and if it was I'm going to feel like the most horrible person ever, but it conflicts with what I've experienced and talked with Bro about and how he views getting lynched as town. desperado hasn't been present enough to really get a feel there, not that I'm great at reading desperado anyway. But they're part of the undercurrent that looks like they're positioning themselves to lynch the ffery hydra and they way that whole arc is going is bugging me, so they're bugging me.

I'm just not real sure what's going on this game. I feel like there are several alternate universes in play right now and I can't figure out which one is the real one.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Is this based on connections or just individual posting? I still have less than zero thoughts on Panda's alignment.

Individual posting, but mostly a gut reaction to the suggestion at that point in the thread. The moment kinda passed because aside from hating Panda's playstyle if he's town, the read is still pure cotton candy.

[AngryPidgeon]

I'm seriously tempted to just go, "Kagura's alignment aside, this is just scumposting", but I realize that's not exactly the most productive thing to say.

Since when has your posts not being productive stopped you even remotely in this game?

[Breakfast With Sandy]

I'm just not real sure what's going on this game. I feel like there are several alternate universes in play right now and I can't figure out which one is the real one.

This is where I've been since about mid-day 1. Usually when I'm this screwed reads wise it's because the game is unannounced multiball or because I have at least one crucial read wrong. See the Red Wine game and my read of you as an example.

I'm 100% confident the game isn't unannounced multiball.

[MastinSSK]

Mastin, while I disagree that the reads of dead players who are familiar with you should be trusted (I've said the same thing as both town and scum so HMMMM), actually attacking people for not agreeing with you is pretty ridiculous.

No, it isn't. If you don't believe in NKA (and to some extent, VCA), then that's fine, not taking the results into account is only natural.

If you do, and you have, then that's okay; it's also natural.
If you do, but you haven't taken them into consideration, that's not. NKA/VCA doesn't require blind faith in the results, trusting them above all other factors. It does require you to not

blatantly ignore

said factors.

I'd also be quite willing to lynch Mastin.

Point of interest--
Who here isn't willing to lynch me?

Be honest, think about that for a bit, and tell me. Is there so much as a single player here, alive, who isn't?

...Yeah, I didn't think so.

Did I really tick my scumbuddies off enough that they'd be willing to bus me in a heartbeat

that

badly?

Mastin's posts to ffery last night remind me of her posts to me in Attack on Titan.

Like hell they were. The two are entirely. ENTIRELY. Different worlds. Not a damn thing similar between them.

I imagine I frustrated her because I didn't give her much she could argue against as I was scum reading her slot merely because the game just made more sense to me if she was scum.

No. I had absolutely zero emotional investment in your attack on me that game. I was pushing you for one specific reason, and one specific reason ONLY: to get your ass off of mine so that I could bide my time. I do not get frustrated with scumreads on me, LEAST of all scumreads on me for solid reasoning, when I am scum. And though your reasoning wasn't solid (it was essentially POE), it was correct and not incorrect, so there was absolutely zero emotion involved in that push.

How the fucking hell can you compare the two? The two have absolutely NOTHING in common. Not mindset. Not circumstances. Not tone. Nothing.

Are you fucking kidding me? I've been having doubts on your slot because your posting hasn't been focused in on achieving a town-oriented goal: it's been a constant onslaught of posting that doesn't stop because you know that you need to keep up constant production to keep the game state the way it is as opposed to constantly working on forming reads, reworking the game, determining alignment.

Okay. Nacho's scum. Against some random scummer, this logic would be fine. Against me. Against ME, dammit. This is essentially a scumclaim. He KNOWS me. He's written god-damned town cases on me in the past. He's nailed my ass as scum. He's been able to show, clearly, with clarity, exactly why I am town in a game, when he's been town himself, and articulate clearly why he is suspicious of me when not.

And he knows.
KNOWS.

This accusation about me.

Is absolute, utter, entire bullshit.

There is nothing in my posting aside FROM that town-oriented goal, so much so to a fault, in that while a lot of my posting is repetitive. While a lot of my posting is going in a circle. Each time, it's an effort to figure the damn game out. An effort that fails and ultimately doesn't do much...but an effort all the same to figure the fucking game out. My constant posting isn't a scumtell; if anything, it's a towntell. Lurking isn't a scumtell for me, but it is still my overall preferred scum tactic, since I love to watch town fights develop. Towns will naturally go at each others' throats with surprisingly little prompting for scum, and scum posting in the middle of it can mess that up, so I don't; I let it happen.

But I haven't been doing that this game. Not at all. I've been trying to piece together the puzzle. THERE IS LITERALLY NOTHING BUT ATTEMPTS TO FORM READS AND REWORKING THEM IN MY FUCKING POSTING.

THAT IS THE ENTIRETY OF WHAT I HAVE BEEN DOING

. Seriously, that's the whole fucking reason people have been accusing me of going in fucking circles, because I HAVE been trying to work things out and HAVE been trying to get my shit together and HAVE been trying to figure out the alignment of players.

There is no way. No fucking way. That Nacho can't see that in my posting. That attempt to work things out has been there so strongly. So damn strongly. That I've essentially done so to a fault. That it's so damn prominent as to have lost its impact. And he knows. KNOWS. He fucking knows me. Well enough to know that it comes from me as town.

You're correct: if I laid in a vote on you when I wasn't engaged, hadn't interacted with you, that would be a scumclaim. I didn't. I expressed concern about you and made engaging with you my #1 priority (even though, let's be honest, I owe the neighborhood a hell of a lot more posting and footwork than I owe you), but you're reacting as harshly as you are right now because you know that a strong solid, scumread from me means that you're dead in the water.

Bullfuckingshit you expressed concern and made interacting with me your number one priority. You've done shit. Absolute zero fucking shit. To actually communicate with me and work with me. Your mindset isn't doubting-but-hoping. Or figuring out. Or scumreading me, even. Your mindset is throwing a read out there, and hoping nobody calls you out on it. There is no pattern behind it. There is no hints. Nothing. Except that sudden read which goes against every fucking aspect of what I know a town-Nacho sees in me. Because the very damn things you're saying aren't there are THE VERY FUCKING THINGS THAT THE REST OF THE TOWN HAS NOTED AS BEING PRESENT AND SCUMREAD ME FOR.

I'm fully aware that in a 1v1 against you, I'll lose.
But I'm going to make DAMN sure.
DAMN FUCKING SURE.

That you don't get away with it.

[AngryPidgeon]

I'm just not real sure what's going on this game. I feel like there are several alternate universes in play right now and I can't figure out which one is the real one.

Probably none of them. People put too much stock in townblocking and taking sides.

Remember HPATPL? that game basically became MoI vs Mastin for a Day phase or three and people kind of lined up on different sides of the fence. I know my scumteam divided itself on the issue of lynching you and definitely ended up in different camps on that central mastin/moi walls being flung up.

TBH, I'm not reading any posts from anybody that make me want to just trust them this game.

I get your paranoia of BRO/Desp. If F16 is actually town, I may end up looking there. After catching up a lot of posts really quick, I see they are sort of coasting on Yesterday's towncred and opinions. I havent seen anything very intereting from them recently except Desperado's push on Stalin which I don't really understand the origin of.

At this point Im gonna try and get down where I stand for my own sake. Also, I think clyton said something I want to respond to when I can.

Probably Town:
Tammy. The few concerns I had when catching up here were pretty much already addressed by the time I finished and Im just having a hard time seeing a lot of her posts coming from scum, especially the ones about out of game things which I guess may seem on the weaker side of reasons to be townreading he but all the self-auditing and admitted uncertainty looks extremely town to me.
Clyton. Newish player. Looks to be pursuing his own train of thoughts rather than caring what other people think about them so much. I think that tidbit about a lurker in the neighborhood is extremely more likely to come from paranoid newbtown than scum doing god knows what.

huh and thats a bit depressing that there is no one else I really feel comfortable putting into this list.

Less-strongly-Town:
JSU. Im seeing arrogance from BRO which ultimately makes me want to townread them. Desperado's posting has left a lot to be desired and their presence Today has been fairly weak. Their opinions have been mostly static (the Stalin pressure form Desp being the only thing that really wasnt that I see) and everything else they've said looks pretty conf-biasy regardless. That said, I think they are town from their play yesterday. BRO looked really smug which is probably from town and I dont knoe if BRO is insane enough to meltdown like that as scum. Like it looked pretty town and Im sure the emotion was genuine, but I just have a hard time with that cause I know I -could- do that as scum. Oh and I get the constant paranoia that BRO is scum and WKing me cause every time I say something that disagrees with him he constantly reminds me that hes the only person to correctly read me and I just want that to be town so much. But ya, all that paranoia aside, think they are town mostly from D1 play.

Orcinus. The large lack of content from this slot is annoying, but the mini-war with Mastin and the "lets 1v1" seemed fairly unabashedly town to me. If I were super motivated, Id probably read Teenwolf mafia to compare him to, but I wont cause fuck that. The reaction to mastin calling him scummy for his role looked town for reasons Im having a hard time articulating which maybe is partly why Orcinus isn't in my higher tier list which I briefly considered putting him in. I just have a hard time seeing Orcinus as scum pushing on mastin so hard for that. It felt really strongly that Orcinus believed his points against mastin I guess.

Fox/Hound: Sort of a tammy-ish read but to a lesser extent. I have a little bit of a hard time folllowing where they want to go, but their reported lack of scumreads does make a lot of sense with their behavior and the hydra dissonance they post is pretty damn artful if they are actually scum. So not an extremely good read here. Oh, I remember really liking their response to pressure when getting wagoned. They just feel open/honest this game and lacking in any specific agenda.

Stalin?: I feel like Stalin has been a pinata for the last few pages. A lot of people seem to be holding them to standards and sort of BoPing them a little. I want to talk to Beli a little more to solidify this and TBH my main reason for listing them here is gut and is partially influenced by the general flow of everyone else having them as town D1. More on them later when Im not time crunched.

Mastin:
Mastin. Not really much more to add on this. I have mixed emotions right now about the Vigilante crumb bullshit and Mastin's argument with Orcinus which looked terrible once I actually sat down and read it on my computer. Still I don't think Im wrong about her bring town so I may just stubbornly take that read to the grave. At this point, can I lynch her for the toldYaSo and policy lynch factor? Maybe.

-----
Hmmm:
F-16, Nacho, PV, Panda, Yggdra, Red Gary.

More on these in a bit. Except Panda. I legitimately have nothing there.

[MastinSSK]

So, I'm feeling kind of weirded out by this developing secondary arc which looks like it's positioning itself to lynch the ffery hydra. I'm not sure what to think of the people involved or the way it's coming about.

Ffery acted weird. The explanations for it that I came up with are either that she's scum or that she's had/about to have a meltdown.

I feel the latter. Town players (myself included) probably saw the former. Scum players can capitalize on that.

But I'm not going to let a Stalin lynch happen, since I'm strongly leaning towards it having been a town meltdown.

Why did you flop onto Nacho despite them being confirmed-would-game-throw levels of town?

One post.

Because sometimes, all it takes is one post.

For me to realize that I've been barking up a seriously wrong tree.

That post. Was just so un-Nacho. Was just so...so...against his town self. Like, I had heard it from F-16 before, but didn't really believe it. Thought he might be presenting what Nacho said wrongly. And then, Nacho posted that.

One post. One damn post. Is sometimes all I need to realize that I've gone wrong. (Though I later relapsed, you'll recall I had similar thoughts on F-16's post to Tammy, and how a scumread reversed into never-lynch townread for it.)

You're scum.
Nacho's scum. This is simply not his townplay.
I have no damn clue who the other two are, though I suspect orcinus is one.

Stalin I don't think is.
Fox/Hound I don't think is.
PV is someone I'm thinking might not be.
I'm seriously considering Red Gyarados as being scum, too.

But that's the best I've got.

Mastin, explain why you THOUGHT RBD picked up on this if you can.

Already did. I thought the conversation went,
Rancid: Imma gladiate this person!
Red Gyarados: You try, you'll never live to see it go through.
Rancid: ...Duly noted.
(Me: "Ah.")

The first part did happen. I can't find anything like a "duly noted" from Rancid, though, so apparently I just picked up on it myself.

Did you ultimately go anywhere with this point?

Yes. Explaining why Red Gyarados is basically in my scum list right now. I've thought them to be a vig since D1. I'm thinking scum-vig. Like I said. Knowing what role I saw Red Gyarados as is vital in understanding how I've been treating the slot, since their role (rather, its usage, be it real or intended) has played a HUGE part in my read of the gamestate, transcending their claim and extending into the night actions as a whole.

God this makes me want to just vote you. I've had about enough of mastin for the rest of this game. The circlejerking, the Appeals to Authority, the endless waffling about half the player list in wall format, and posturing on this in a way that will definitely make people want to lynch me if you flip scum. Ugh. Ugh ugh.

All of which a town-you KNOWS come from me as town, and not as scum.

[MastinSSK]

Why did you flop onto Nacho despite them being confirmed-would-game-throw levels of town?

Seriously. AP and Nacho are tag-teaming.

And let me show you something.
Nacho's upped his scumgame.

Near the end of D1, he focused wagons onto AP and orcinus.
Here's the thing, though. That could have caused a no-lynch. (Old point, I know.) But let's say it didn't. Orcinus's role means a govern, meaning no scum lynch. All it takes is Orcinus claiming in order for it to not look like a scum was run up.
Overnight, AP claims a result on Nacho, but the result is later said to be roleblocked.

This is not a super-complicated plan.
This is not some contrived, convoluted scum plan.
It's actually beautifully simple and easy to execute.

And it is totally their style.
Especially since ffery was put into the arena.

And furthermore? If I'm right about Red Gyarados being a scum vig...then it totally gives a perfect explanation for the nightkills, too.

I am emotionally charged right now. My heart's racing. I can feel myself pounding (rather than typing) the keyboard. So I'm not exactly the most stable. But this isn't rage. It's adrenaline. That probably means I'm not entirely correct. But I certainly don't think I'm entirely wrong, either.

[AngryPidgeon]

But AP - what do you make of Mastin's posts to Ffery last night?

Looking..(why do you torture me, have I offended you greatly? )

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p5859763
I see mastin admitted that she isn't actually accomplishing anything finally. That is a positive step towards recovery. Other than that, mostly QQ about Stalin not working with them. Im pretty over that sentiment this game from everyone. Also in all games. Im just over that sentiment.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p5859779
This was all ffery and not Beli? I think mastin is wrong in calling her Conf-biasing since Ffery has been saying that she is explicitly waffling on mastin's alignment and TBH it did look terrible that mastin was interjecting to buddy up to F16's questions when BRO -DID- just post something from left field about F16 that stalin was trying to clarify F-16's reaction about with F-16. Which is pretty town motivated actually since I know I looked at their reaction and hated it. They didnt jump to the same conclusion, but still them finding it interesting makes complete sense to me. so mastin accusing them of being blatantly sucm motivated is missing the forest for the trees and I could see that being from scum. The follow up makes little sense, but meh. MEH.

All I see is mastin still refusing to understand that shes being insufferable by spamming the thread and regurgitating opinions and posturing over and over again and refusing to understand WHY someone might not want to interact with her. Shes sort of using the same point on me to scumread me, so yeh.

People seem to think that is similar to a scumgame of mastins that I haven't rad. In my vacuum I still think this fits with mastin just being batshit insane town.

P-edit: IF you think I have any intent of rading those...Well I mgiht cause I need something to do as I walk to lunch.

[AngryPidgeon]

I looked at their reaction and hated it

Their reaction being CF's reaction to BRO.

[MastinSSK]

He had me on confirmed would game throw levels of town because he wanted me to feel good. He flopped on me because he's trying to pull the same "Nacho townreading me = Nacho town and Nacho scumreading me = Nacho scum" shit that Ceph pulled in ASOIAF.

LIKE HELL I WOULD.

Know what a scum-me does when Nacho pressures me? Beg him to reconsider his read. Continue buddying as I have been buddying. Maybe throw in a bit of paranoia, if I'm going for extra townpoints, but since the plan as scum is to nightkill Nacho anyway, a scuMastin really only needs to keep the scumread off for long enough to pull that off.

THAT IS HOW I THINK.
I have a plan. I always have a plan. Said plan involves who gets lynched and who gets nightkilled. It involves keeping suspicion where I want it to be, and getting suspicion away from where I don't want it to be. THAT IS MY FUNDAMENTAL SCUM OBJECTIVE. And entering into a 1v1 fight against Nacho? IS THE POLAR FUCKING OPPOSITE OF THAT.

Nacho KNOWS this about me. That the LAST thing. I would do as scum. Is willingly. WILLINGLY. Jump into the fray and fight him. Because it would bite my ass, big time. He is scum.

[Titan]

I'm just not real sure what's going on this game. I feel like there are several alternate universes in play right now and I can't figure out which one is the real one.

This is where I've been since about mid-day 1. Usually when I'm this screwed reads wise it's because the game is unannounced multiball or because I have at least one crucial read wrong. See the Red Wine game and my read of you as an example.

I'm 100% confident the game isn't unannounced multiball.

Yeah, cabd assured me the op wasn't lying :p

And same here, but usually when that happens I can look back at my town reads and try to work out what makes sense to be a wrong read and what doesn't. But here I'm feeling like I did in crosstown 2 but to a larger scale. In that game I couldn't even form a solid town core to look back at as all my town leans were given hesitantly. But nacho was scum, and even though I picked up on several things that bothered me from the start, I kept trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, and I think that messed me up.

I don't have a solid town core I feel good about here either. In a strange play of circumstances, I think you guys are my strongest town read, but it should be falcon and I don't know why it's not, but even with that I feel hesitant. I'm not sure what to do to make the game make sense.

Pedit: I'm not meaning town blocking when I talk about alternate universes. I very rarely town block. Very rarely. I do look for town reads to bounce ideas off of, but that's no really what I'm referring to either AP. This game feels out of sorts.