Tales of You (Endgame)

[PeregrineV]

He had me on confirmed would game throw levels of town because he wanted me to feel good. He flopped on me because he's trying to pull the same "Nacho townreading me = Nacho town and Nacho scumreading me = Nacho scum" shit that Ceph pulled in ASOIAF.

LIKE HELL I WOULD.

Know what a scum-me does when Nacho pressures me? Beg him to reconsider his read. Continue buddying as I have been buddying. Maybe throw in a bit of paranoia, if I'm going for extra townpoints, but since the plan as scum is to nightkill Nacho anyway, a scuMastin really only needs to keep the scumread off for long enough to pull that off.

THAT IS HOW I THINK.
I have a plan. I always have a plan. Said plan involves who gets lynched and who gets nightkilled. It involves keeping suspicion where I want it to be, and getting suspicion away from where I don't want it to be. THAT IS MY FUNDAMENTAL SCUM OBJECTIVE. And entering into a 1v1 fight against Nacho? IS THE POLAR FUCKING OPPOSITE OF THAT.

Nacho KNOWS this about me. That the LAST thing. I would do as scum. Is willingly. WILLINGLY. Jump into the fray and fight him. Because it would bite my ass, big time. He is scum.

Your deep in-depth knowledge of what you would do as scum and pointing out that you are doing the opposite of it negates any argument you make using that knowledge.

[CarbonFiber]

Okay, just read the last few pages, still in the process of digesting them.

So, I wondered more than once if my view of the gamestate was horribly wrong after Mastin's post to ffery but the AoT links makes me feel that it isn't.

It is mostly because sort of resonated with me. I think Breakfast is more likely town than scum but it has been frustrating at times to see eye to eye with ffery.

Why are they so obviously town? Who are the people that are posturing to lynch them?

[CarbonFiber]

I mean, besides Mastin obviously.

[MastinSSK]

I still don't think Rancid was scum.

But Mastin probably is.

THESE TWO THOUGHTS ARE.
HAVE BEEN.
AND ALWAYS WILL BE.
MUTUALLY. FUCKING. EXCLUSIVE.

She considers herself a mediator, a diplomat...and when ffery's diplomat hat slips off a little bit, she gets offended why exactly?

A little bit?

ffery threw her diplomat hat on the ground, and stomped on it. Repeatedly.

I'm increasingly convinced she's town. But I am royally ticked off. Because in past games?
In past games, I've been the one who was burning the bridge down.
This game?

She just flat-out to my face said she was.

my initial thought was "this is a scum mastin post if i've ever seen one" and boom, it really really is

LIKE FUCKING HELL IT IS.
YOU KNOW NOTHING.

NOTHING

.
ABOUT ME IF YOU THINK.
THAT I CAN ACTUALLY.
LEGITIMATELY.
PULL SOMETHING LIKE THIS.
AS SCUM.

As scum, there is a detachment from the argument. I might curse, I might shout, but there is an agenda to my words.
WHAT IS THE AGENDA.
WHAT IS THE PLAN.

In AoT, there was a plan. A clear fucking plan. A point to the rant at Tammy. I was doing one thing. And one thing ONLY. Trying to get her off of me. That's it. That was all there was to it. WHAT IS THE PLAN HERE. There is none.

Of course my game's going to have some SUPERFICIAL FUCKING RESEMBLANCES to some scum game. You can pull up any random scum game of mine and make comparances to it, and a towngame on why this wouldn't be it. BUT THAT IGNORES THE WHOLE FUCKING POINT OF SCUMHUNTING. Which is looking at the context, the damn CIRCUMSTANCES, for it, and the mindset behind the push.
WHAT WAS THE SCUM MINDSET?

To get ffery on my side?
Fuck no.

Nacho. Is. Scum.
AP. Is. Scum.

Whoever else is fucking scum, those two are.

Their whole interactions is off.
Their whole aura. Especially how they're treating me.
This is not them as town.

[MastinSSK]

Since when has your posts not being productive stopped you even remotely in this game?

Since I decided to try.

Actually fucking try.

To be a better player.

But I'm emotionally compromised right now.

[MastinSSK]

AP's been scumposting, too, but I'm already late for my class thanks to posting here, and I haven't even tackled 173, yet alone, AP's recent posting, so that'll have to wait.

[PeregrineV]

the lass's words are curious
I'm gonna consult rquieux
but our vote is like gold
in the hands of the bold

Your vote sucks, and Nati would know that.

Couple of things here that really just aggrevate me, because I know you can do better to make yourself at least LOOK like town.
But no.
You begin by outright discrediting any reason for a vote that RBD has on you without actually defending yourself. But then it gets even worse, you're doing so by appealing to a head of a hydra. I'm tempted to say buddying, but no. I think it's a come back of Appeal to Authority. You're placing Nat as the only "reasonable" head of the hydra so that you can just discredit any post that they make because you could think it's not Nat.

That's an unreasonable standard to set. Those are reasons I just can't see this being a town post.

Ouch.

[PeregrineV]

So, I'm feeling kind of weirded out by this developing secondary arc which looks like it's positioning itself to lynch the ffery hydra. I'm not sure what to think of the people involved or the way it's coming about.

Which posts are devloping a secondary arc that looks like it's positioning itself to lynch Breakfast with Stalin?

What people are involved?

Why are they so obviously town? Who are the people that are posturing to lynch them?

[Titan]

Okay, just read the last few pages, still in the process of digesting them.

So, I wondered more than once if my view of the gamestate was horribly wrong after Mastin's post to ffery but the AoT links makes me feel that it isn't.

It is mostly because sort of resonated with me. I think Breakfast is more likely town than scum but it has been frustrating at times to see eye to eye with ffery.

Why are they so obviously town? Who are the people that are posturing to lynch them?

You, des/bro, peregrine and mastin. It's just that all of you guys line of questioning is more geared to "gotcha" than it is to scumhunting. That's how it looks from the outside.

I just think the way she's thinking about the game looks town, and maybe it's because she seems to be seeing the game somewhatimilarly to me. Her interaction with mastin and talk about mastin looks town. I mean I *suppose* I could be reading her wrong but I don't feel like I am. I feel like I've learned a bit from tales of vesperia and the board game where I incorrectly thought she could be scum for something like three days. She's hit some of the same notes here that she did there, and iirc she was prioritizing this game over that one when she had little time last month. I pointed out a post last night I thought was more likely a town!ffery post.

[Titan]

So, I'm feeling kind of weirded out by this developing secondary arc which looks like it's positioning itself to lynch the ffery hydra. I'm not sure what to think of the people involved or the way it's coming about.

Which posts are devloping a secondary arc that looks like it's positioning itself to lynch Breakfast with Stalin?

What people are involved?

Why are they so obviously town? Who are the people that are posturing to lynch them?

Are you gearing up to waste your time looking busy tunneling on me?

[CarbonFiber]

My read on JSU is all over the place. It's what inspired the JSU!town wall from falcon. There are some things consistent with his town game such as discussing positionals or at least are consistent with how I've seen him scum hunt and what he talked about in the Wicked dead qt. But there are some things that are off that I can't quite put my finger on, including the melt down, which now I'm bringing up again and it makes me feel like shit to even question if it was real and if it was I'm going to feel like the most horrible person ever, but it conflicts with what I've experienced and talked with Bro about and how he views getting lynched as town. desperado hasn't been present enough to really get a feel there, not that I'm great at reading desperado anyway. But they're part of the undercurrent that looks like they're positioning themselves to lynch the ffery hydra and they way that whole arc is going is bugging me, so they're bugging me.

I'm just not real sure what's going on this game. I feel like there are several alternate universes in play right now and I can't figure out which one is the real one.

Just got to this. I can see the suspicion is because we are all "pushing" on ffery in some way or another. You are noticing this as an "undercurrent" because Desp and I have discussed Breakfast in the neighborhood thread and that's why we were in sync whenever he posed a question. I knew what he was going to ask and where he was coming from.

If you are questioning your townread on me because I question mine on ffery, why not ask me for details about what my issues with Breakfast are to sort it out?

I also don't think that I've been playing any "gotcha" cards with Breakfast. I am trying pretty hard to get them to spill out their thought processes to solidify my read.

[PeregrineV]

Okay, just read the last few pages, still in the process of digesting them.

So, I wondered more than once if my view of the gamestate was horribly wrong after Mastin's post to ffery but the AoT links makes me feel that it isn't.

It is mostly because sort of resonated with me. I think Breakfast is more likely town than scum but it has been frustrating at times to see eye to eye with ffery.

Why are they so obviously town? Who are the people that are posturing to lynch them?

You, des/bro, peregrine and mastin. It's just that all of you guys line of questioning is more geared to "gotcha" than it is to scumhunting. That's how it looks from the outside.

Interesting take. Since it sounds like we are saying "Tell us what you think?"

Mine specifically includes the clause "without regard to what they think of you."

I just think the way she's thinking about the game looks town, and maybe it's because she seems to be seeing the game somewhatimilarly to me. Her interaction with mastin and talk about mastin looks town. I mean I *suppose* I could be reading her wrong but I don't feel like I am. I feel like I've learned a bit from tales of vesperia and the board game where I incorrectly thought she could be scum for something like three days. She's hit some of the same notes here that she did there, and iirc she was prioritizing this game over that one when she had little time last month. I pointed out a post last night I thought was more likely a town!ffery post.

So you are saying Breakfast is town for *meta* because *meta*. Got it.

[Titan]

My read on JSU is all over the place. It's what inspired the JSU!town wall from falcon. There are some things consistent with his town game such as discussing positionals or at least are consistent with how I've seen him scum hunt and what he talked about in the Wicked dead qt. But there are some things that are off that I can't quite put my finger on, including the melt down, which now I'm bringing up again and it makes me feel like shit to even question if it was real and if it was I'm going to feel like the most horrible person ever, but it conflicts with what I've experienced and talked with Bro about and how he views getting lynched as town. desperado hasn't been present enough to really get a feel there, not that I'm great at reading desperado anyway. But they're part of the undercurrent that looks like they're positioning themselves to lynch the ffery hydra and they way that whole arc is going is bugging me, so they're bugging me.

I'm just not real sure what's going on this game. I feel like there are several alternate universes in play right now and I can't figure out which one is the real one.

Just got to this. I can see the suspicion is because we are all "pushing" on ffery in some way or another. You are noticing this as an "undercurrent" because Desp and I have discussed Breakfast in the neighborhood thread and that's why we were in sync whenever he posed a question. I knew what he was going to ask and where he was coming from.

If you are questioning your townread on me because I question mine on ffery, why not ask me for details about what my issues with Breakfast are to sort it out?

I also don't think that I've been playing any "gotcha" cards with Breakfast. I am trying pretty hard to get them to spill out their thought processes to solidify my read.

I probably would if it didn't feel like this game was in pockets instead of on the table and I felt like I could trust anything.

I'm not questioning my town read on you, mostly, I still would be surprised if you flipped scum, I just feel hesitant about everything and I don't know what to do to make it make sense.

[PeregrineV]

So, I'm feeling kind of weirded out by this developing secondary arc which looks like it's positioning itself to lynch the ffery hydra. I'm not sure what to think of the people involved or the way it's coming about.

Which posts are devloping a secondary arc that looks like it's positioning itself to lynch Breakfast with Stalin?

What people are involved?

Why are they so obviously town? Who are the people that are posturing to lynch them?

Are you gearing up to waste your time looking busy tunneling on me?

No, I'm pointing out that another player is asking you the same question. And your response is who, but not why you think we are "developing a secondary arc to lynch Breakfast".
Also, you answered and didn;t tell him to go READ THE FUCKING THREAD.

You see the difference?

[Titan]

Falcon - you seriously read PV as town? Really?

Like really?

[PeregrineV]

Falcon - you seriously read PV as town? Really?

Like really?

And she dodges again.

Do you see the difference?

[Titan]

So, I'm feeling kind of weirded out by this developing secondary arc which looks like it's positioning itself to lynch the ffery hydra. I'm not sure what to think of the people involved or the way it's coming about.

Which posts are devloping a secondary arc that looks like it's positioning itself to lynch Breakfast with Stalin?

What people are involved?

Why are they so obviously town? Who are the people that are posturing to lynch them?

Are you gearing up to waste your time looking busy tunneling on me?

No, I'm pointing out that another player is asking you the same question. And your response is who, but not why you think we are "developing a secondary arc to lynch Breakfast".
Also, you answered and didn;t tell him to go READ THE FUCKING THREAD.

You see the difference?

I think you're annoying.

If you hadn't already asked me the stupid questions about the neighborhood which began with your gibberish from last night, I'd have probably answered, but you've already annoyed me so no answers for you!

[Titan]

Also also pere you're asking questions to look busy, and falcon is asking me questions to understand where I'm coming from.

See the difference?

See the difference..

[Titan]

Also you're continuing to try to bait me. I hope everyone with a town read on pere takes note of what he's doing.

[Titan]

You should have a pretty good scum read on me by now pere. Why aren't you voting me?

[CarbonFiber]

I probably would if it didn't feel like this game was in pockets instead of on the table and I felt like I could trust anything.

I'm not questioning my town read on you, mostly, I still would be surprised if you flipped scum, I just feel hesitant about everything and I don't know what to do to make it make sense.

Okay. I think I see the problem so I'll try to explain it the best I can and maybe it will help make things clear.

I don't think you are off-base in suspecting the undercurrents from Desp and me because the way we approached some of our reads, particularly the one on Breakfast is very similar to how scum do it. In particular, the pre-planning and discussion in the neighborhood QT before we reveal in thread has that "planned" nature to its reads. Here's what hapenned:

There were plenty of times in D1 where Desp, BRO, and Pie have commented on how Ffery's reads list doesn't make sense. Desp also really, really hated that reads list in the cagefight that Ffery provided. Pie has a lot of times questioned Breakfast's motivation. I was the one in the neighborhood who steadfastly supported that Ffery was town. I got irritated when she defended Rancid even after he was cc'd but thought it was wrong town while others in the neighborhood thought it to be scum. We've had extensive discussion about what Ffery would and wouldn't do as scum. I even went over a Ffery towngame where she was wrong town to see if it is plausible that Ffery could have misread scum-Nati. GIF has been supporting town-Ffery for most of the game. Bork and Nacho have also said that this is Ffery's town game but they weren't as active. We've all had a really detailed well-hashed out debate.

When Desp started pushing Ffery, it wasn't something he made up on the spot but something that has been built and repressed for a while. I assume he repressed his suspicions because he thought he could work with Ffery if she was town while bottling all of his paranoia in the neighborhood QT. That's why I made that spoiler post where you instantly corrected Desp on what Ffery was saying. I could see you taking Ffery's side over Desp and I didn't want that chasm to grow wider. I think Desp probably did a bad job of expressing his suspicions in that post and your logic is sound. But I knew where he was coming from because we had discussed it for over a week in the neighborhood and that question seemed valid to me and not at all a cause for concern.

I think it is likely the neighborhood is causing more harm than good because it has been more difficult to get on the same page with you than in any other game before. We're both reading different games, that much is obvious. Mine has an extra 20 pages of BRO-Desp's, and Pie-GIF's thoughts and I think it is possible it hurt more than it helped as far as syncing is concerned. The read on Ffery was borne more out of frustration than anything else and I don't think I

should

be scumreading her for it.

[Titan]

Oh but thank you for the suspicion. I do like to live a little while, and I'm happy to be of service.

though I don't know if it's scum or town I service yet! and if it's even useful :p. oh me oh my!

[AngryPidgeon]

Cf, it really annoys me that you can just ignore comments and questions directed at you so readily by people who aren't Tammy.

Tammy: Why should PV have you as scum right now??

[AngryPidgeon]

Its like your primary concern is pandering to Tammy to stay in her good graces.

[Cabd]

Mine