NY 172: Another Large Normal (GAME OVER)

[Plessiez]

It's day 4. Deadline for the day is

May 3rd, 12:58

. That means you have (expired on 2014-05-03 12:58:35).

Vote Count 4.8

PeregrineV [4 votes] (Egg, TheWayItEnds, DeasVail, Damon_Gant)
ThAdmiral [2 votes] (SnowStorm, penguin_alien)

5 players are not voting

: {fferyllt, PeregrineV, SiX, Snork, ThAdmiral}

With

11

players alive it takes

6

votes to lynch somebody or to go to night.

[Snork]

*yawn*

VOTE: PV

[Plessiez]

Egg hasn't posted for over 48 hours and hasn't arranged a V/LA. He has therefore been prodded.

[Egg]

Was literally posting about 20 min ago then my phone rang.

But anyway.

If anyone was wondering, I'm still townreading Penguin and Snow so I have ThAd, Pere, and Damon as preferred lynches/gunsmith targets/ vig kills.

[fferyllt]

Before: Luca Blight [3] (Damon_Gant, 4nxi3ty, talah)
...
After: 4nxi3ty [4] (ThAdmiral, Damon_Gant, talah, Luca Blight)

This looks funny, in a bad way. Can we just lynch them all?

I like this post, it has a townfeel but 3 of these people were town.

The only thing that really bugs me about Luca is the fact that my scum reads are advocating it as an acceptable lynch.

My top town reads right now are you, MR, AP, Pisskop, Zd and mastin. Second tier would be Yates, DV, 4nx and pmatt.
Top scum reads are Talah, Thad, aptil, DG, Rach.

Nulls are nero (for now - his ISO is on my list), Luca, and PV (who I was originally scum reading, but not sure if correct yet based on other posts).

Where would you disagree?

I have a town read on AP too. Pisskop is still kinda null, some people seem to suspect him and I haven't looked much into him yet and while I don't dislike his posts it is not enough to give him a townread.

I have a weaker town read on DV too. As for 4nxiety, I have mixed feelings.

I haven't devoted much thought to mastin, Yates, pmatt, Nero and PV, but I haven't seen anything in their posts that would make me consider lynching them today, so for now they're in the null pile.

Talah is a mess and is in a tier of his own.

Rach is nullish but I'm not a big fan of her latest posts. So she's in between the null pile and scum leaning.

Aptil. I think I'm leaning town on him. I have played with him before (on Westeros mafia), more times than I remembered, because most of the games he played in he ended up being replaced for low activity. The only game where he wasn't replaced was the only game where he was scum, where he looked more proactive and involved. Now while I don't think this is a strong point to town read him for, I don't get a scum feeling from his posts either. So I'd say he's a weak town read atm.

Reads list is kinda middle of the road for that point in time. Based on my piecemeal reading of isos, I feel like there was nothing in this list that was against the prevailing thread currents.

Am I correct?

1412 is pretty long to quote so I won't but this interaction with Yates doesn't look scum-to-scum to me.

I seriously don't understand why some people think as town that it is 'ok' to get lynched. In the end this is a game of numbers and if you know you're town and you are fine with your lynch rather than someone else's, then you're not playing to your win condition, because when you're town, every lynch that is not yours has a chance to be a scum lynch.

Even if you've become a distraction to town, it's your job to get them to see past the distraction or to at least try. Because if town can't see past it then I doubt they can successfully catch the scum team either.

Now to prove you're town, you could start by analyzing your lynch wagon now, instead of telling us to do so after your flip. That sounds much more productive, since doing so could possibly prevent your lynch and in the best case scenario catch scum! And this is for both talah and Luca.

^^ theory, but it's of the "buck up if you're town" variety and a reach-out. Also feels town.

1724 - not only do I like the post from a town-SnowStorm perspective, I like the observations about ThAd. Also liked the followup posts.

1963 - also a townfeeling interaction with AP (and another brick in my ThAd read).

1975 - same.

Going to stop calling out this sort of post because there are lots of them.

Town

Putting SnowStorm in my townpile.

[TheWayItEnds]

127 pages is a lot to process. There's no way I'm going to know the game like I lived it the first 3 days. But I'm not going to say "lolnope not reading" and make a decision based on the last 5-10 pages.

I mean I think it was pretty clear that I was talking about people who werent you seeing as I've quoted myself saying "lynch this whenever ff is ready" like 4 times.

3170 is quite bad though.

[fferyllt]

3170 is a self-goad and an effort to be transparent about the trajectory of my reads. The timeframe is pretty telescoped and I'm processing the thread in a very unnatural way, but I want the accountability.

[TheWayItEnds]

3179 is better, but I wish you hadnt started with snow, whos pretty low on the lynch list for most people.

I have things to say about 3170 but if you're planning to do more posts like 3179 I'd rather see those first.

[fferyllt]

See post 3171.

[SnowStorm]

I'm getting tired of waiting too. I've been waiting for Pere to post his reads but he hasn't posted anything yet, and as much as I'd prefer a ThAd or Damon lynch over his, this lack of activity is not really helping his case...

[Plessiez]

PeregrineV hasn't posted for over 48 hours and hasn't arranged a V/LA. He has therefore been prodded.

[fferyllt]

Damon Gant

- something to note is his join date. this is his first game in 2 years. so there's a vintage aspect to his play that needs to be taken into account.

104 - this, addressed to bjc about his "I'm scum" post comes off ridiculously tryhard and overworked. vintage? rusty? maybe.

118 - draws a bead on Mastin. mild townpoint?

130 - this establishes a pattern, something also in 118 of "what I'm gonna do later", which pings a little but could be personality/style.

131 - the reads disagreement looks pretty town. No mention though of other players now known to be scum except Smudger for not posting. Could be because he was active earlier than they were.

202 has a townpost feel.

221 - sadly I can see a town player who doesn't know mastin putting this effort in and reaching the conclusion. But...he didn't show his work.

475 - I can see scum-AP pushing a scumbuddy with this sort of softball.

542 - no known scum in the homework list.

643 - lays out good reasons for his approach of pressuring lurkers. I feel like this is a vintage/site meta thing. The site trend has been toward more and more tolerance of lurkers. 657 at least has one known scum in it, but is a player he hadn't mentioned at all before - yates

725 - a pushback at yates and reads list:

I am indeed "eyeballing everyone". Yesterday I looked at the ISO of literally every person in the game except yourself (because heavens knows going through your ISO is going to be a chore). I didn't promise that I was going to post detailed reads on every person in the game, because honestly, most of my thoughts are still going by gut and it wouldn't be useful to do so. However, if you want a list of my gut feels then

Scum: Luca, aptil, 4nxiety, SnowStorm, bjc
Null: Pisskop,

mastin

, Nero, yourself, Rach,

Yates

, DV
Townreads to some degree: Everyone else

I don't think that's a particularly useful exercise, but at least you now know where I stand approximately on every player in the game.

This would be pretty classic inexperienced scum to put 2 scumbuddies in the nullpile.

734 feels town.

749 in reply to yates doesn't feel like a scum-scum interaction. :/ Same with 753.

781 is just a thing of beauty. I am really having trouble seeing how a rusty scumplayer getting pummeled by Mr Rogers and others would take such a bold stance and suggest the 4nxi3ty wagon. So's the later switch back to Luca. If that's not "idgaf what this looks like" I don't know what is. I'm tempted to stop here and call DG town.

1244 stance on talah. I could see this coming from someone who knows talah will flip town. 1247 though, is pretty insightful.

1305 wagon herding, which also gives me a town feel in isolation. And the call-out of AP in 1372

1478 is so prophetic I doubt a scum player of his experience level would voice it.

1606 wondering if this is the crux of the scumreads on Damon. And 1613 comes off as town working hard to prevent a nolynch

1696 calling AP out again, this time for wking Luca.

1729 doesn't feel like scum damon talking to scum AP. AP was fairly well positioned to go deep at that point and is not the player you'd call out for a shitty towncase if you're on his team IMO.

1843 feels like town frustrated by the mist.

1949 mastin voted him for going after ThAd's day 1 vanity wagon. hmm

2042 could be a scumslip, not reading the opening post well enough to notice the 2nd kill.
2123 was a weak case on deas, but does have the feel of town casting about trying to find a new direction.

2157 is a decent looking reads list. null reading AP and Yates, scumreading Mastin. AP fell from an earlier town read with plenty of trajectory.

2631 is probably where a lot of the scumreading originates. Willing to switch to mastin, but doesn't. And day 3 doesn't make it into the thread until after the gunsmith guilty on AP.

2911 is some good analysis.

His play today looks like his stance was shattered (it was) and he's looking in the right places to find more scum. The Mastin stance feels like town confusion rather than scum hoping things will change to me. Reading the thread at that point, I think any partner of Mastin's would have concluded it was bus for town cred time with 4 hours to go and no sign of Mastin pulling a rabbit out of her hat.

I'd like for someone who is strongly scumreading Damon to explain it to me. Maybe I'm missing the forest for the trees in these ISOs.

[PeregrineV]

@FFery-

Issues with Damon- Yates was a null read the whole game, with stated intent to research further, which never happened.

Daomn starts out scumreading Mastin, let's him off with Mastin self-meta by page 10 one post after this:

I never bring up my meta unless someone else brings up an erroneous version of it, like talah did. Regardless of alignment, I don't fight meta that's correct (even if the conclusion is wrong--yes, it is possible to be right on meta yet wrong on the read, because a town-me evolves [and even frequently incorporates successful elements of my scumplay into my towngame!] and a scum-me is capable of mimicking my townplay fairly accurately); regardless of alignment, I will shoot down meta that is wrong.

To give my most recently-completed towngame, look at Tales of Vesperia, the Wallduskkel hydra. It should be fairly obvious which posts are me and which came from Ald. It's not the best game to meta me off of (there are much better ones), but it's the most recently completed game, giving you the most contemporary meta I have.

Then, AP "corrects" Mastin

People's reaction to my first post has been stupid. Mastin's in particular seems like he just has a problem with just the way that I weighed my words. It's how I post - particularly if I'm making a post with quite a simple and concise point. Indeed, just in general, I don't find Mastin's reads to be very good. The certainty in them is obviously part of his meta, but I do disagree with pretty much all of it. I'm not sure if posting such disagreeable reads is part of his meta! I don't have any particularly strong feelings on his proposal for a limit of posting - but as others do, I guess that's not happening.

I spent quite a while staring at this post cause it felt important. Leaning town I think. Its waffly as fuck, but the train of thought reads genuine. Despite the lack of satisfying conclusion, its still making his opinion plain and its fairly followable.

That said, while talah's scum...

VOTE: Damon Gant.

...My scumread here is much, much stronger.

Mastin, get back on Talah TIA.

I'm willing to discuss Gant with you but I reaaally dont think hes scum?

Talah continues to OMGUS literally everything in 108.

Mastin next lets go mostly (469) and never brings up Gant again until 1733.

Sets up a Damon/Gant scum dichotomy, 1791 & 2004, but when he leaves 4nxiety, he moves to Snowstorm(!) wagon (2005).

Back to 4nxiety (2244), then BAM, Damon is town (2246) with never a mentiopn by Gant of this change in Mastin's read on him.

As far as I can find, despite continued Mastin attacks, Gant never defends against or refutes any of it. And they start working together on the Snow lynch (2042, 2077) which has both AP and mastin before 4xniety derails it.

Gant also joins Mastin on the TWIE wagon, but when Mastin comes up for a lynch, Gant never votes his null read (2631).

For AP, Gant is a town read, but by 1806 and 1907 Damon back to null, but town by 2066.

Yates never indicates a read on Gant, but dresses him down fully in 2 posts for gant calling Yates a lurker.

Result- Compared to Snow, this screams scum. He is town-read by scum when need be, but also set up in case bussing needs to take place.

[PeregrineV]

And just so it will be on record

Vote: Damon_Gant

[Damon_Gant]

Just a few tidbits I want to say on these last couple of posts about myself:

130 - this establishes a pattern, something also in 118 of "what I'm gonna do later", which pings a little but could be personality/style.

I have to apologise for this. I've been doing the whole "later I'll do x" thing quite intentionally, and for good reason. As I've admittedly previously, I am a massive procrastinator. By declaring things that I intend to do on the thread it makes me far more likely to actually do them.

2042 could be a scumslip, not reading the opening post well enough to notice the 2nd kill.

Just a quick correction here - I was being sarcastic towards mastin in this post. I certainly did not miss the 2nd kill. I was suggesting that it was obnoxious and unnecessary of mastin to point out that she was right that they were both town, and that this did nothing to enhance her town cred.

Issues with Damon- Yates was a null read the whole game, with stated intent to research further, which never happened.

It's true that I never made a comprehensive post on Yates, but I did in fact research him further.
Statement of intent
After research

Back to 4nxiety (2244), then BAM, Damon is town (2246) with never a mentiopn by Gant of this change in Mastin's read on him.

Obviously I noticed this flip of opinion on me, but it seemed like it was legitimately substantiated by my list of reads. It was nowhere near as suspicious as mastin's flip of read on talah, not in my mind.

Gant also joins Mastin on the TWIE wagon, but when Mastin comes up for a lynch, Gant never votes his null read (2631).

I knew as soon as mastin flipped that this post would be used against me by someone who wanted an easy case. I personally can't believe that you actually think this is indicative of me being scum. It's a really obvious thing to point out, but look at the very next post by a player that by everyone's reckoning right now is town. I declined to vote for mastin at that point because I was still more interested in a TWIE lynch and wanted to give it a chance to happen. By the time I came back the hammer had occurred.

As far as I can find, despite continued Mastin attacks, Gant never defends against or refutes any of it.

And this is where I believe you yourself definitely do not believe your own case. Mastin never made a point against me that I could refute. It was always just quote a post, then state as a fact that I'm scum without reason. At first I reacted with bemusement but eventually I opted to ignore her because there was simply nothing constructive I could say. To what specific post of mastin's do you think I could have responded constructively?

PV, I can tell that you don't believe your case on me. In your attempt to deflect pressure from yourself, you've examined where the wind is going and noticed recent posts tentatively suggesting a lynch on me. You have searched my posts with a confirmation bias. This is obvious based on the fact that most of the points you have made are either very easy points to make, or very clearly not good points. This manner of "scumhunting" is indicative of scum, and as I have said earlier, I do not see many permutations left where you are not scum.

[ThAdmiral]

Yeah it looks like chips on the table time.

I'll go ahead and

vote: damon gant

as well

[Plessiez]

SiX hasn't posted for over 48 hours and hasn't arranged a V/LA. He has therefore been prodded.

[SiX]

I'm here. Have been reading but didn't really have anything to voice my opinion on.
I'm also rather clueless, there's no one having a scum sign in their pan atm.
But if I've to follow my gut, I'd vote DG.

VOTE:

[fferyllt]

@FFery-

Issues with Damon- Yates was a null read the whole game, with stated intent to research further, which never happened.

What I saw in the ISO was that he'd go off and do research but often not report it or report it sketchily if he was buttonholed. I dunno. I thought it fits with his overall playstyle.

Daomn starts out scumreading Mastin, let's him off with Mastin self-meta by page 10 one post after this:

I never bring up my meta unless someone else brings up an erroneous version of it, like talah did. Regardless of alignment, I don't fight meta that's correct (even if the conclusion is wrong--yes, it is possible to be right on meta yet wrong on the read, because a town-me evolves [and even frequently incorporates successful elements of my scumplay into my towngame!] and a scum-me is capable of mimicking my townplay fairly accurately); regardless of alignment, I will shoot down meta that is wrong.

To give my most recently-completed towngame, look at Tales of Vesperia, the Wallduskkel hydra. It should be fairly obvious which posts are me and which came from Ald. It's not the best game to meta me off of (there are much better ones), but it's the most recently completed game, giving you the most contemporary meta I have.

Then, AP "corrects" Mastin

People's reaction to my first post has been stupid. Mastin's in particular seems like he just has a problem with just the way that I weighed my words. It's how I post - particularly if I'm making a post with quite a simple and concise point. Indeed, just in general, I don't find Mastin's reads to be very good. The certainty in them is obviously part of his meta, but I do disagree with pretty much all of it. I'm not sure if posting such disagreeable reads is part of his meta! I don't have any particularly strong feelings on his proposal for a limit of posting - but as others do, I guess that's not happening.

I spent quite a while staring at this post cause it felt important. Leaning town I think. Its waffly as fuck, but the train of thought reads genuine. Despite the lack of satisfying conclusion, its still making his opinion plain and its fairly followable.

That said, while talah's scum...

VOTE: Damon Gant.

...My scumread here is much, much stronger.

Mastin, get back on Talah TIA.

I'm willing to discuss Gant with you but I reaaally dont think hes scum?

Talah continues to OMGUS literally everything in 108.

Mastin next lets go mostly (469) and never brings up Gant again until 1733.

Sets up a Damon/Gant scum dichotomy, 1791 & 2004, but when he leaves 4nxiety, he moves to Snowstorm(!) wagon (2005).

Back to 4nxiety (2244), then BAM, Damon is town (2246) with never a mentiopn by Gant of this change in Mastin's read on him.

As far as I can find, despite continued Mastin attacks, Gant never defends against or refutes any of it. And they start working together on the Snow lynch (2042, 2077) which has both AP and mastin before 4xniety derails it.

Gant also joins Mastin on the TWIE wagon, but when Mastin comes up for a lynch, Gant never votes his null read (2631).

For AP, Gant is a town read, but by 1806 and 1907 Damon back to null, but town by 2066.

Yates never indicates a read on Gant, but dresses him down fully in 2 posts for gant calling Yates a lurker.

Result- Compared to Snow, this screams scum. He is town-read by scum when need be, but also set up in case bussing needs to take place.

Scum-Mastin, when she attacks someone, it's hellaciously hard to refute because it's so insubstantial in terms of refutable points. The problem is, her points as town are sometimes equally insubstantial. There's a difference, I think, though I may not have enough data points to catch it in the moment yet. I'm not sure.

Anyway.

I could be just sympathizing way too much with players in this game who got the scum-Mastin treatment. Talah was one. DG was one. I think DG was being set up.

[penguin_alien]

^ Exactly. It's the difference between when mastin's scum, she declares unsubstantiated scum reads on town players and acts like no one should question them versus as town she's unable to back up those kinds of reads and expresses frustration with that lack of evidence to bring to the table.

[penguin_alien]

Which is to say that I still lean town on Damon_Gant.

[Egg]

Realize who all just voted Damon guys...

[fferyllt]

Realize who all just voted Damon guys...

How many of the three are you thinking are scum?

[Snork]

Which is to say that I still lean town on Damon_Gant.

Yep actually, me too. Especially after fferyllt's analysis basically saying a lot of what I'd been thinking about DG on D2.

[PeregrineV]

Which is to say that I still lean town on Damon_Gant.

I was this way since 229.

But, taking Snork results as-is, scum has to be in Snow, ThAd, Gant, Egg, Penguin (3066).

And the stuff I mentioned stood out to me in the triple ISO.