You're saying I'm not going to do something...and then proceed to describe why by using me doing that exact fucking thing. My singular goal IS to take you down. But I'm no fool. The fucking votecount will tell you that much, and so does past experience. I said it way, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back in GvE, CvL, that I couldn't win the fight against you with you-as-scum and me-as-town. It's still just as true now as it was back then. I am not as charismatic. This is not a fight I enter with any chance at all of winning. Obvtown be damned! Yes, I'm fucking obviously town. Anyone reading my goddamned posting without confirmation bias, without emotional attachment, and putting so much as an iota of effort into reading my fucking mindset would be able to figure that out. Doesn't mean I'm going to win. Yes, I should. No, I won't.In post 4393, Nachomamma8 wrote:If you were town and felt you were obvious town, you wouldn't feel this way. you would feel like you had just found scum-Nacho running out from his comfortable safety net from an obvtown position, and you would make it your singular goal to take me down and make yourself obvious town in everyone's eyes as a result.
'Course not.In post 4397, Nachomamma8 wrote:You didn't plan to enter a 1v1 fight against me.
THE EGO CHECKS.In post 4398, Nachomamma8 wrote:Has there ever been a game where mastin, as engaged town, has really been so lost in herself while simultaneously attempting to keep everyone else's egos in check? I have trouble imagining her not making ego checks every once in a while when she says things like what she said to BRO earlier.
Right, that.In post 4400, AngryPidgeon wrote:Are you referring to the post where she told BRO never to play with her again if he was town?
*points to her post*In post 4401, Nachomamma8 wrote:How so?In post 4303, MastinSSK wrote:ffery threw her diplomat hat on the ground, and stomped on it. Repeatedly.
Except basically every fucking point she's made as a mediator? I made well before her. And I don't need her assistance there. Because F-16 is talking to me without her, and DesBRO wasn't townreading her at the time, meaning that'd be useless. I gain nothing from doing it as scum.You want ffery to run interference between the CF-JSU crowd and you, since she's acted as mediator earlier in the game for a pretty long time.
Where's me turning against DesBRO, F-16, Titan, or such? I don't "turn against" players scumreading me for the act of scumreading me. (Okay, I do...as scum. Not as town.) I "turn against" players who I had been thinking were town, that show something highly-uncharacteristic of what I was expecting of their towngame. Which most commonly, admittedly, manifests in suspecting me, but it's never the act of suspicion itself. It's how the suspicion is handled.She starts to turn against you, you start to turn against her.
MY EMOTIONS.In post 4403, Nachomamma8 wrote:And I hate how she talks about her emotions instead of shows them.
Fair point about me not focusing more on you. I got distracted. But I'm scumreading you. Harcore. I'd love to be wrong. But I'm not. Not on this. You've been saying you're trying to sort me with your words, but your actions are doing nothing but painting me as scum. (This would be hypocritical of me if I wasn't willing to admit that while I wanted to sort Nacho, I've already done so into scum. Basically, the difference is again not in the action, but how it was handled.)In post 4405, Nachomamma8 wrote:When she goes "Nacho isn't sorting me, my #1 priority is to sort [Nacho?]", then doesn't sort or engage me and goes on a dream rant, yes, it's scummy.
In general, procrastination is a nulltell. But guess what? Look at what my posting has been ever since you've come in. Exactly what you're saying, it's been fucking digging into you with a clear goal in mind.I don't think town-Mastin procrastinates in digging into me when she has a goal and she has a need.
If this were to be an accurate summary, then it's absolutely bullshit, since there's one thing.In post 4407, AngryPidgeon wrote:Now you are arguing that mastin is being opportunistic in sheeping people's doubt on you for easy towncred and that shes not actually made any effort towards scumhunting you. I don't really have a good response for either of those.
Well, AP's defense of the point was fair, but why I thought it was scummy should be painfully fucking obvious, because it showed to me an inconsistency in thought pattern that wasn't something I saw coming from town.In post 4408, Nachomamma8 wrote:Why do you think that's scummy?In post 4357, MastinSSK wrote:"I don't really trust anyone" *next line* "I'm basically trusting you".
Aside from it being against what I know about AP in general? It also goes against AP's belief about ME in general.Why not?In post 4357, MastinSSK wrote:And again. Really, really. Don't think. AP would ever truly consider. An actual policy-lynch.
Well, aside from me disagreeing with it being nothing but a waste of time, I can list a myriad of different reasons why AP would pursue it.The distraction would be nothing but a waste of time for scumAP: why would he pursue it?
No, I'm scumreading you because you're scum.In post 4409, AngryPidgeon wrote:Are you SCUMREADING me over this?
You know, logically, I actually agree with this. Brian Skies's posts actually look really, really good and make me want to townread them. But I can't help but think that my gut-feeling was right. In part because of POE off of other feelings, and in part because Nacho went ballistic (ha) on me after I revealed my Red Gyarados-is-a-scum-vig theory.In post 4410, CarbonFiber wrote:Brian's post resonates with me and re-inforces my townread.
And after I flip town, reading his posting about me knowing his history with me, what then?In post 4412, Yggdra Union wrote:-Nacho is town and I'll never support anything resembling a lynch on him
I'll lynch AP in a heartbeat. Would you? 'Cause you've been voteparking me basically the entire game in spite of scumreading other players.-I don't like anything AP did recently. his entire push on CF sucks ass
Yes.-mastin has literally ACKNLOWLEDGED she's been flooding the thread with bullshit and her response to that is? continue flooding the thread with bullshit. sounds legit
...Which would be a waste of money, considering, y'know. Bulletproof.I'd pay cash money for a vig shot on mastin right now just to stop all the fucking posts
Admittedly. During more emotional times. I haven't.In post 4414, Yggdra Union wrote:She literally does not give a shit about working with town and the health of town as a collective.
I have a post not too long ago that has thoughts pretty similar to what they are now. I do have a reason for voting Cupcake (which is still only me at this stage), but it's the kind of thing that I'll have a better idea of the longer I go without explaining it, so I'm not going to unless I'm going to push his lynch.In post 4283, AngryPidgeon wrote:Fox/Hound: Can you two explain where exactly you stand on everyone right now and on reads that you disagree on, why? Im having a hard time recalling/tracking what you two actually are thinking. Your vote on me and unvote (fake edit) and vote on mastin and unvote is really non-committal. Do you actually have a reason for thinking Cupcake is scum or is that just a whatever vote?
Ceph obviously is considering PV-scum, and while I see a couple of concerning things lately, I was leaning town on him before the last day or so. I think we're pretty agreed on the Nacho slot being townish but not TOWN, and Carbon Fiber being TOWN but I miss FT (not that F16 isn't cool, because he is too!). I also don't know if either of these are changing for Ceph with his reading.In post 4283, AngryPidgeon wrote:Do either of you have a read on: PV, Nacho, F16?
When I first started playing mafia I was really paranoid about everything and anything and even though the paranoia now is probably less controlled than I think it is, I have tried to sort of lower my standards for who I trust in a way and pretend to myself that I'm more confident than I actually am? I know it sounds bad, but I feel it's achieved a better result at least for me. Obviously this could be of no use to you whatsoever and I'm obviously not a model player, but I think a more relaxed (e.g. it's just a game and not the end of the world if I'm wrong) approach could possibly help here.In post 4312, Titan wrote:I just feel hesitant about everything and I don't know what to do to make it make sense.
Do you think CF is getting lynched?In post 4340, AngryPidgeon wrote:This vote probably wont move before deadline.
Yes. So did I. And I knew you were in the game that I did it two years ago.In post 4415, Titan wrote:So, a couple years ago, in two separate games in which Mastin was scum in both. At the same time, she had dreams about the game and they both involved her being the hero of the game. Now a lot of people dream about mafia. I dream about mafia all the time and reference in it games when it happens, but I can't help but remember the last two times I saw Mastin have these grandiose dreams which were metaphors for what she was supposed to do in the game, she was scum.
There's a difference between creating a narrative (scumplay) and discovering (or thinking you've discovered) an existing one (townplay). In this case, I realized what was happening in the game. And have done my damnedest to maintain control, to be more civil and be more, well, like a leader should be. Because I saw it as being healthy.In post 4416, CarbonFiber wrote:Another concern I had about Mastin was that her whole development into the town leader persona felt like she was telling a narrative about herself which was the same thing she did in ETL's resistance where I was scum with her.
In post 4417, Titan wrote:But, his whole scum don't make/like noise point is trash. Scum love noise.
I HAVE NEVER FUCKING SAID TO TRUST HIS READS ENTIRELY. SIMPLY TO NOT FUCKING DISCARD THEM AS WORTHLESS AS THEY HAVE BEEN.In post 4423, Yggdra Union wrote: it's just bad play to completely trust RBD's read - even if RBD is town, there's still a good chance mastin was able to fool him.
People, yes.it also directly contradicts her stance he's been pushing all game about being successfully able to manipulate people as scum.
But it should be.In post 4439, CarbonFiber wrote:But yeah, if you and Rancid are scum together, I don't think in most cases, you would want them janitored and that's not my issue.
Try everyone in your neighborhood since D2 began? And Stalin, in particular.In post 4443, CarbonFiber wrote:The "I don't think Rancid was scum but Mastin is" is an unconventional idea that resonated at some level because not many brought up that idea before but it does make sense if Muffin had a misread and Mastin was milking it for everything it's worth (and of course I buy that Mastin wouldn't janitor him).
...That, uh. Describes scum behavior, not town behavior.He is thinking past the kind of tells that he would be expected to use.
...Which is exactly what I've been saying.In post 4486, CarbonFiber wrote:What if Mastin's actually town though and Nacho is using the suspicion on Mastin to get a lynch? AP would be scum in that case discrediting everything Mastin says but wanting to look good on a Mastin townflip.
Also something I said earlier. >_<It would fit in with Mastin's role at least and explain some of the movements that have been going around the game.
It'd be a lie to say it was impossible. 99.99% improbable, though, yes. zMuffinman did say it himself, that his alignment regardless, he'd be forced to townread me with me-as-town. However, the everything about them is town.In post 4488, CarbonFiber wrote:Mastin, is it completely impossible that Muffin as scum had a "townread" on you and helped you make all the pushes you made so that he could look good to you? What makes you so certain that they were town?
Bluntly, you don't have the history I do with him. They were town. They always were. If you ignored their literal actions and looked at their mindset thinking about what they would be thinking, you'd realize. They had emotions. They had thoughts. A progression. That was purely from town.Your unmoving read on them is one of the things that concern me since I feel pretty good about them scum for the most part.
And frankly, they would likely have been more convincing if Rancid WAS scum.I don't think their attacks on me, JSU, Fox, or Titan were at all convincing.
A lot of places, but most recently, on Titan. No longer thinking he's scum, though.In post 4489, Red Gyarados wrote:Where has he misrepped anyone?
Me? I dunno. Rancid? Because you threatened him.Also, why would I shoot someone I was townreading yesterday?
A joke that happened to perfectly predict that I was a treestump.Secondly, me calling you a 'mafia treestump' was a joke.
Vote crossed off in red is voteless but with voice. Treestump carries the specific connotation of being immune to death.Your vote was crossed off and in red. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that you're essentially a treestump at that point in time.
My role's passive, not active.Finally, why are you insinuating that I shot you when I'm pretty sure you heavily implied that you activated it yourself (maybe, I'd have to check up on that)?
No, but generally, it's a safe assumption that my thoughts are presented linearly. That is, anything coming after what I quote doesn't exist yet in my mind. (Which is why I sometimes say that I thought of an idea first, it just got posted second.In post 4496, Titan wrote:Mastin are you ignoring nachos push on you?
) Meaning my response had to wait until I actually saw his bullshit. 
Really?In post 4425, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:Nacho I'd like to talk to you about Tammy.
The way that you treat a player when you have a scum read on them is completely different to how you treat a player when they are on the bottom of a POE list. When a player is your top suspect, you pursue them with a single minded aggression that never stops until something drastic happens: you case doubt on every claim they make, you give people town points for voting them. POE lists are a different environment entirely and their lunches are normally pushed by directing away from other, worse lynches.In post 4493, MastinSSK wrote:I fail to see how. You had a POE list, used akin to a scum list. I had a similarly-formatted list, yet my handling of it was completely and entirely different.In post 4387, AngryPidgeon wrote:[Mastin is strawmanning.]In post 4383, MastinSSK wrote:Yes, but still a scum pool all the same. My posting is more akin to how I'd expect a town-you to be handling a scumlist with those names.
You've probably gotten there. The basis of her read on me. Does it make sense to you that town-Tammy would form a read this way?In post 4514, Nachomamma8 wrote:Really?In post 4425, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:Nacho I'd like to talk to you about Tammy.
I went on a perusing journey of Tammy's ISO and got lost in that really town looking exchange with PV. Could you quote what you're thinking of because if I read it I totally forgot itIn post 4516, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:You've probably gotten there. The basis of her read on me. Does it make sense to you that town-Tammy would form a read this way?In post 4514, Nachomamma8 wrote:Really?In post 4425, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:Nacho I'd like to talk to you about Tammy.
Usually when someone fabricates a town read on me it's close to this form. But in this case it's zeroed in, not floaty.
As in he hasn't pushed them like scum reads, right, you pushed that point. He hasn't been pushing them like scum reads because they are POE reads, which are different from scum reads.In post 4493, MastinSSK wrote:Again not the point; my point isn't that the names make no sense at all, but rather, how you've handled them overall simply doesn't seem right. I wish the proper words were there to explain that. Though that said? If you want to get into reads that don't make sense in general...Cupcake you can say is anti-town, but you can't say is scum. Yggdra is arguably the same. F-16 as a scumread makes basically zero sense, either. The only three names there that even remotely are plausible are Nacho, PV, and Red Gyarados.So what of those 6 Poe scumreads (Cupcake, Yggdra, Kagura, PV, F-16, Red Gary) doesn't make sense?
And you don't treat reads on me the same way?In post 4493, MastinSSK wrote:Okay, better wording. I don't lie about my read. If I say I scumread you, I actually have somehow legitimately scumread you. Otherwise, I'm forced into a townread as scum.You have been arguing that you DONT scumread me as scum which is a lie.
In post 4195, Titan wrote:In post 4194, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:Then take your own goddamn advice about confbias.
I feel like this is one of those things empire would point out to me after the game and say it came from a town ffery.
I'm still learning, but I feel like it's one of them.
In post 4308, Titan wrote:You, des/bro, peregrine and mastin. It's just that all of you guys line of questioning is more geared to "gotcha" than it is to scumhunting. That's how it looks from the outside.In post 4301, CarbonFiber wrote:Okay, just read the last few pages, still in the process of digesting them.
So, I wondered more than once if my view of the gamestate was horribly wrong after Mastin's post to ffery but the AoT links makes me feel that it isn't.
It is mostly because sort of resonated with me. I think Breakfast is more likely town than scum but it has been frustrating at times to see eye to eye with ffery.
Why are they so obviously town? Who are the people that are posturing to lynch them?
I just think the way she's thinking about the game looks town, and maybe it's because she seems to be seeing the game somewhatimilarly to me. Her interaction with mastin and talk about mastin looks town. I mean I *suppose* I could be reading her wrong but I don't feel like I am. I feel like I've learned a bit from tales of vesperia and the board game where I incorrectly thought she could be scum for something like three days. She's hit some of the same notes here that she did there, and iirc she was prioritizing this game over that one when she had little time last month. I pointed out a post last night I thought was more likely a town!ffery post.
I want to take this at face value. I want an external check of some sort, though.In post 4427, Titan wrote:Interesting.In post 4425, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:Nacho I'd like to talk to you about Tammy.
I made you paranoid when i said I thought you were my strongest town read didn't I? I figured it would.
Caution. Wind. Woooooo.
