Tales of You (Endgame)

[The Fox and the Hound]

Nacho I'd like to talk to you about Tammy.

???

After our last games, it's taken me aback.

Empire has a handle on how my irritability manifests as town and I think he probably could explain it to other players.
1
The niggles have been there for a while, though.

I feel like scum should basically be sharks in the water smelling blood at this point. I may not be lynchable today, but I'm getting there. But that's not the only use a bleeding townie has in scum tactics.

???

Mostly, I want reassurance that this fits how you absorb other playeres' styles.

???

If I know Tammy can't be this town as scum (yes, she is townier than red wine), you should too.

[MastinSSK]

Thoughts about that game cheer me up whenever I am starting to get a little annoyed at this one.

And here, I am proud of this game.

That might seem a bit unusual a take.
But right or wrong.
I can say that for sure.
I am proud, not ashamed, of what I've been doing this game.
It's frustrating, yes. But I never look back to my towngames and reminisce about the past in them. I always think, "I can do better!"
And that's why I'm proud this game. It might seem like something highly unusual. But I am

absolutely

proud of this game. Even if it turns out that I was an utter, total, entire, complete failure in every aspect. Because I? I am proud of my failures just as much (if not more) than I am of my successes. Because they prove that aspect of me. That, yes. I can do better. I can go farther. I can improve on this. I didn't do that very well. And of course, as with most games, I can also point out I did this well, and that fairly decently, too.

So anti-town aspects be damned, still proud. It just means that they need to be 'removed' next time. (I use quotation marks, because it's not so much that any aspect of my play here needs to be removed, so much as it is...refined. I happen to think I very well could have DAMN good reads, here. They feel right, in more ways than just one. But even if I have total accuracy, it'd be delusional to not also see the bad in the play. And those things can be limited.)

Our major ah ha over the last 24 or so hours is that we have 3 bet the farm town reads.

So do I--their names were Rancid, Mac, and LB.

(Couldn't resist.
More seriously, Tammy's basically the only living one I can think of off the top of my head. F-16's basically there, too. DesBRO are townreads that I'm 100% certain of, but this is "bet the farm", which involves betting on more than their alignment, but also on how they handle things, ans while I trust Tammy and F-16, experience has told me not to trust DesBRO.)

He knows he has a pretty good tell on me based on that game and he went back and checked my read on PV to make sure it makes sense before figuring out that this matched up with my town play. It fits exactly with how I'd expect him to read me. Also, his hesitance about BRO townreading me makes sense as well. I thought his reasoning (at least with regards to me was well-thought out).

Though these explain a thought process, they don't write an alignment on said thought process for me. What about this is something that Brian Skies wouldn't do as scum?

Nacho am I town, scum, or fptslbooa?

Scum. Unless you die soon!

You want an example of ACTUAL scum-cross-distancing, but pushing elsewhere? You know, "scum theater"? It's this whole exchange. AP's interactions with Nacho, and vice-versa, are all incredibly flat.

[The Fox and the Hound]

Also re CF asking me about my suspicion of PV: I thought his attack on Tammy was on a stupid target who shouldn't be a serious suspect for a good long while, and was trying too hard to attack things that should have been attacked? At least that's what I recall thinking, if he's looking like an actual possible vote for me today I will revisit.

[The Fox and the Hound]

shouldn't*

[CarbonFiber]

@ Cephrir

,

1) What's alarming? The post you quoted or the Mastin's narrative?

2) Are you questioning your townread on Yggdra? Or just saying that they are town but not as obvtown to you as they are to me?

3) So, you understood why I accused Mastin and AP of bussing. But you want to know when I did this? On D1 after their back-and-forth. Your posts are a little difficult to parse because I am not sure what your positions are i.e. you say you agree with something but also disagree.

4) Regarding AP townreading Mastin, I explain it in my list of reads. Brian caught it as well. It is that I thought their interactions are weird.

5) "

It would be easier to take this at face value if it weren't about yourself.

" - Not sure what you are trying to say here. I scumhunt attacks on me just like I scumhunt attacks on others. I think in general, it is easier for people to talk about attacks on themselves but it doesn't make it any less valid.

[MastinSSK]

Also, fuck people saying I'm the one producing a lot of noise.

You made twenty fucking pages while I was away, without my help at all. That activity isn't going to mysteriously vanish overnight, you know. It's going to continue without me just as much.

So that point about me is also bullshit. On a related note,

While town as a whole not having a decisive direction, or even multiple decisive directions is nice, it's a volatile state. And I think it means that there aren't that many town players who are vulnerable to mislynch. Most of the players who could be considered lynchbait really aren't in this playerlist, if that makes sense.
How would you as scum tackle this gamestate?

It's pathetically easy. Stay out of the spotlight. Keep townblocs from forming, and induce paranoia in them. For instance, if players are absolutely convinced that they have a townbloc, just with a Thor in it (oh gods, I'm actually using that)...emphasize the need to find the Thor, which induces enough paranoia to break the townbloc into smithereens. Keep the town divided into camps, and have scum on both sides of the camp. Keep cards spread out, so that when necessary, you can chose to stack the deck.

Whereas this kind of scenario in a smaller game sent me into a panicky, "Nacho! Help! Please!" me state...
...In a larger game, this kind of scenario puts a wide grin on my face, as my brows narrow and my fingers hover above the keys of my laptop, eagerly waiting.

...A copout answer would be to point to players I think as scum and say, "See, like this" with a brief explanation, and point to my posting and say, "most certainly not like this".

GIFPie, DespBRO and Orcinus. Beli's actually more bet the farm about Orcinus than I was before we talked.

That's unexpected.

Not really.

I mean, the orc read feels absolutely godawful, and Beli being the one pushing it IS unexpected, but these names being there, not so much.

This is part of my hesitation in scumreading weaker players in this game. I feel like this wouldn't be the sort of gamestate we would be in if the scum were mostly less active or less skilled players.

It should be noted that the current gamestate really only kicked in after AP replaced in, and that both Nacho and orc were fairly lurkish at the time. Heck, even Red Gyarados was reducing activity at the time.

Basically, there's a marked difference where this game went from normal to explosion, from coherent to divided, from friendly to hostile, and it's marked at basically that point. I haven't done fact-checking; this is by memory. And this is something that you

could

argue correlation != causation, but just saying, I think that it gives you a perfect answer.

Do you think we would be here if the scumteam was PV, Orc, RG, etc?

One or two of them?

Yes.

Partly due to the distraction element, and due to all the offshoots that are hard to feel one way or the other about. But I'm also concerned about the fallout for town if Mastin is town.

As mentioned, the distraction element is bullshit, since you spammed plenty while I wasn't here and will spam plenty more when I'm not here forever. It won't stop just because I'm gone. If anything? If anything, it'll get fucking worse. Know why? 'Cause everyone has it in their minds that I'm scum. That's one reason they're not posting even MORE. Is because they already have that.

...And when I don't flip scum? There's that "oh, shit" moment. When they realize. That every fucking thing in their world. Revolved around that singular aspect. That wasn't true. And now? They've got nothing. And need to figure things out. And know what that means? Posting. LOTS. Of posting. Lots of distractions. Uncertainty. And so on and so forth.

And this is why I asked to be investigated in the first place, too. 'Cause a BP town player? Is gamebreakingly powerful if cleared. 'Cause guess what? That provides that focus. No distractions. A player there that can always be relied on, to direct people. And players can always fall back onto being town, safely, without paranoia, and ALSO without said player dieing overnight.

[CarbonFiber]

It's pathetically easy. Stay out of the spotlight. Keep townblocs from forming, and induce paranoia in them. For instance, if players are absolutely convinced that they have a townbloc, just with a Thor in it (oh gods, I'm actually using that)...emphasize the need to find the Thor, which induces enough paranoia to break the townbloc into smithereens. Keep the town divided into camps, and have scum on both sides of the camp. Keep cards spread out, so that when necessary, you can chose to stack the deck.

To your credit, you haven't been doing it although AP has been with the way he intercepted Titan/CF conversation.

---

I'm wondering if it makes sense to just lynch AP first. If Mastin is bussing, we'll help him bus. If he's town, then good.

[MastinSSK]

If Mastin flipped town my reads on desbro, nacho, pie and maybe you might feel in flux. That might be because of neighborhood, but I would be looking at all of you cross-eyed trying to figure out which one of you were scum pulling everyone's strings.

That's easy. Listen to emotions and how they can't be faked (DesBRO), but have been absent from a specific player. (Nacho.) Listen to reasoning, posting, vibe, mindset, and overall trajectory (for lack of a better term) present (F-16), and for their absence. (Nacho.) Then listen to things like meta and stubbornness (pie), which while not *as* strong still vaguely point one direction. (Nacho.)

My scumplans usually depend on the playerlist and who my partners are. I think the ideal is to survive and win but I always try to make contingency plans. For instance in Wicked, Malakittens, Nacho and I set it up for 5P LYLO as if it was one of {Mala, NotScience}, or {Nacho & me, CES & Fenchurch hydras} so that even if one of us went down, the other would win 3P LYLO. One of the plans I am proud of being involved in because all three of us worked it out so that there is no way we could lose. I think if I had scumbuddies that were really good but weren't partnered with me as a hydra in the same slot, I'd spend more of an effort to create fake interactions but considering the team in Wicked, most of my initial planning went into making our slot survive and getting Cabd and Penguin (and later Mina) to townread us. Cabd probably hates me for it.

You know, F-16. You're describing my scumplay style, here. Yet it doesn't feel like you've fully applied that logic to this game and thought, "Okay, how does Mastin's posting fit that mindset?"

Also, why was I blocked?

Your target was me but it failed.
Seemed like you weren't blocked to me!

I want to lynch this cheeky clown fuck

So why HAVEN'T you?

The direction is pretty much mastin getting lynched. There has been no other direction.

(Which, again, I'd like to point out is why I'm town. Because if I was scum? You could be DAMN sure I'd have another direction we

could

choose, even if ultimately I told my scumbuddies to go with this one.)

[AngryPidgeon]

No you did fuck all to stop your lynch in 172. You are trying here at least. Who is scum on your wagon then?

[Titan]

I'm busy today so I don't have much time, but...

Mastin - when I say that it will clear up the distraction, I don't mean the amount of posting you're doing. I've been doing enough posting of my own, but you're posting doesn't really help to clear up your alignment. And the distraction is the fact that you are a central focus of concern in this game. You are what a lot of people are focused on. I don't see that changing at all.

When I said you were a craftier scum player than me it didn't mean that I thought you just couldn't be scum here if you were getting run up, it was referring to the conviction. I would have a hard time conveying that much conviction that I'm town if I were scum but I think that you are craftier that me in that regard so it's not as strong a town tell in your case.

Regarding the neighborhood and why des frustrated me so much last night. Apparently they're towning it up in the neighborhood and raising concerns there but not doing anything here and we're all just supposed to buy they're town from it. I think neighborhoods are wonderful and can really help people get reads on each other, but when you are in a neighborhood, you can focus on manipulating those people in the neighborhood. Your "mist" can be directed in a way it can't in the game thread because you're focusing on manipulating just a small set of people and when you're not posting in the thread it raises alarms. IF they're keeping up with the game, even if it's just to say that they're falling behind, why not post in the game too? Why stay in hiding. I can't see the obvtown towniness being displayed in the neighborhood and when it's not in the game thread too I'm not going to just buy it. You can get awesome reads in the neighborhood. In NY146, I realized that MOI was trying to manipulate me in the neighborhood in a way that pushed me towards the proper decision in lylo. Without that neighborhood and seeing his behavior in that context, I might have gotten it wrong. In The Wire, I was able to get a good town read on DV based on the way he claimed to us, and we made a pretty decent town case on him that unfortunately wasn't followed after we died, but DV was also posting in the game so we weren't like "take our words he's town". Incidentally I also claimed pretty early in that neighborhood even though I wasn't convinced of either DV or Kuribo being town at the time. /

And here, the inactivity in my neighborhood was matched by inactivity in the game thread. Neither of us are keeping things out of thread while being active in the neighborhood. Penguin and I have talked a little bit more since she replaced in but it's mostly been me giving her an update of the game and asking her to read a couple people and tell me what she thinks, and she's a bit paranoid (or acting paranoid >_>) because this is her fourth neighborhood this year and in each one of her neighborhoods there's been scum who've been able to manipulate her in that way. And in this one both falcon and nacho should understand where I'm coming from that people can manipulate people in neighborhoods, not only from Viscon but from Wicked as well as both nacho and falcon were able to manipulate people in the neighborhood and then that was used as a means of getting them town read by people who were suspicious of them beforehand.

[MastinSSK]

With 14 players alive, it will take 8 votes to lynch or nolynch.
MastinSSK (5): Just Sheep Us, PeregrineV, Yggdra Union, orcinus_theoriginal, CupcakePanda
Nachomamma8 (2): Red Gyarados, MastinSSK
CupcakePanda (1): The Fox and the Hound
PeregrineV (1): Titan
Not Voting (5): Nachomamma8, Carbon Fiber, Clyton, Breakfast With Stalin, AP

That said, me not being dead by now does make me wonder. I mean, AP can't hop on without it being a scumclaim. Nacho can, though. Red Gyarados is the doubt factor. (Also, the legitimacy of Katsuki's vote; I recall it being vote: Mafiatitan, which would be ambiguous if true.)

I probably waffled very little this game, particularly my pushing the Rancid wagon was probably tunneling. I'm considering the possibilities of course, as in "what if Mastin is town" because the last time I did that when I suspected him, I ended up realizing he was in fact town.

Which, you dummy, means that I am town.

That's part of the reason I am still scumreading Rancid is that their wagon was harder to push despite a more prolonged and sustained push than counterwagons like Orc and I think scum would want to push the wagon that is not on them.

If the scum are the wagons, though, like on AP or orc...what then? Then the Rancid push makes total sense. I'll put things in a different way.

Rancid's the true distraction this game. I say that not arbitrarily; it's proven by their flip being janned. The town gets nothing from it. Rancid had a lot of posting, so good things he said were likely to be lost. There were people who wanted him lynched just to see his flip, and that vital piece of info was denied to us. The wagon on him was a part of that. Scum would push it enough to distract from them, but likely knew it wouldn't go through. It was a transition. A temporary thing, to use as an advantage, to divide the town and get attention away from them.

I'm not sure this is the best explanation, but I think you can get what I'm getting at. Rancid most certainly was town. Meaning that pushing talk onto him (even if it's not a scumread) was serving a scum goal, not a town one.

Now ORC was a Betelgeuse.

[The Fox and the Hound]

@ Cephrir

,

1) What's alarming? The post you quoted or the Mastin's narrative?

The latter.

2) Are you questioning your townread on Yggdra? Or just saying that they are town but not as obvtown to you as they are to me?

I'm saying I think they're pretty damn town but I still feel compelled to note the inklings of doubt that I do have.

3) So, you understood why I accused Mastin and AP of bussing. But you want to know when I did this? On D1 after their back-and-forth. Your posts are a little difficult to parse because I am not sure what your positions are i.e. you say you agree with something but also disagree.

That makes sense. I know I'm being a bit confusing, it's because I'm trying to figure out what my positions are too.

5) "

It would be easier to take this at face value if it weren't about yourself.

" - Not sure what you are trying to say here. I scumhunt attacks on me just like I scumhunt attacks on others. I think in general, it is easier for people to talk about attacks on themselves but it doesn't make it any less valid.

I kinda think it does make it less valid. Despite the fact that I do the same thing.

[The Fox and the Hound]

I went back and crossed CF's earlier reasoning for thinking PV is town with PV's iso and I can see why CF is townreading the slot (particularly not being useless, trying to be useful in a game filled with noise, following up with the questions he asks, and trying to sort out his reads that have clearly gone against the grain).

Yeah, so, PV being useful no longer means anything to me because of reasons. I don't really remember the last thing here happening.

I haven't read it, but I'm aware of what Falcon is capable of as a player (he meta-dove me pretty successfully in the micro I played with him even though we were butting heads the entire time). But I thought meta-diving is something he's able to replicate as scum?

Look less at the content and more at what he's actually trying to do.

Do it yourself?

Notty thinks you're extremely town in your interactions with RBD/Mastin, but I really don't like your waffling and refusal to move the game forward in a meaningful way.

And I'm pretty sure most of your contributions today thus far has been 'I think Mastin could be town' or 'I think Mastin could be scum.' What do your other reads look like?

Waffling and waiting for everyone else to move the game forward are basically my life.

I'm obviously working on the other reads bit. This will probably have to end in some variety of list.

[CarbonFiber]

I'm busy today so I don't have much time, but...

Mastin - when I say that it will clear up the distraction, I don't mean the amount of posting you're doing. I've been doing enough posting of my own, but you're posting doesn't really help to clear up your alignment. And the distraction is the fact that you are a central focus of concern in this game. You are what a lot of people are focused on. I don't see that changing at all.

When I said you were a craftier scum player than me it didn't mean that I thought you just couldn't be scum here if you were getting run up, it was referring to the conviction. I would have a hard time conveying that much conviction that I'm town if I were scum but I think that you are craftier that me in that regard so it's not as strong a town tell in your case.

Regarding the neighborhood and why des frustrated me so much last night. Apparently they're towning it up in the neighborhood and raising concerns there but not doing anything here and we're all just supposed to buy they're town from it. I think neighborhoods are wonderful and can really help people get reads on each other, but when you are in a neighborhood, you can focus on manipulating those people in the neighborhood. Your "mist" can be directed in a way it can't in the game thread because you're focusing on manipulating just a small set of people and when you're not posting in the thread it raises alarms. IF they're keeping up with the game, even if it's just to say that they're falling behind, why not post in the game too? Why stay in hiding. I can't see the obvtown towniness being displayed in the neighborhood and when it's not in the game thread too I'm not going to just buy it. You can get awesome reads in the neighborhood. In NY146, I realized that MOI was trying to manipulate me in the neighborhood in a way that pushed me towards the proper decision in lylo. Without that neighborhood and seeing his behavior in that context, I might have gotten it wrong. In The Wire, I was able to get a good town read on DV based on the way he claimed to us, and we made a pretty decent town case on him that unfortunately wasn't followed after we died, but DV was also posting in the game so we weren't like "take our words he's town". Incidentally I also claimed pretty early in that neighborhood even though I wasn't convinced of either DV or Kuribo being town at the time. /

And here, the inactivity in my neighborhood was matched by inactivity in the game thread. Neither of us are keeping things out of thread while being active in the neighborhood. Penguin and I have talked a little bit more since she replaced in but it's mostly been me giving her an update of the game and asking her to read a couple people and tell me what she thinks, and she's a bit paranoid (or acting paranoid >_>) because this is her fourth neighborhood this year and in each one of her neighborhoods there's been scum who've been able to manipulate her in that way. And in this one both falcon and nacho should understand where I'm coming from that people can manipulate people in neighborhoods, not only from Viscon but from Wicked as well as both nacho and falcon were able to manipulate people in the neighborhood and then that was used as a means of getting them town read by people who were suspicious of them beforehand.

I UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU ARE COMING FROM TAMMY!

[MastinSSK]

I think that assuming a wagon that doesn't form easily is a wagon on scum is a dangerous assumption.

However, the inverse when it comes to MASTIN...most certainly is. Assuming I'd let myself get wagoned easily (and yes, it would fucking be 'letting myself') as scum is a dangerous assumption.

I just felt like the general idea being pushed that there is no direction besides Mastin's lynch was a bit inaccurate. It is actually too easy to push in a different direction.

Oh? Really now.

Name a single wagon that has gained and kept momentum long enough to even be considered a fucking counterwagon to me. If it were so fucking easy to push in a different direction...why the fuck hasn't there been a strong push in a different direction?

The closest you've gotten is me pushing AP and me pushing Nacho, but being divided between the two.

[Titan]

I know

I was explaining it for everyone not just you.

[MastinSSK]

Nacho feels town-town-town-town-town during this whole thing.

When I saw your plea, I townread it.

And while I'll admit there's a gut-reaction to vaguely think about Nacho's posting that way, I can't. I see it as maybe being town, but the thought that Nacho just wants to play with Tammy his alignment regardless also entered my mind, and can't leave. /confirmation bias.

And their interactions with each other feel really weird for two players who supposedly are able to read each other really well.

You mean the bit where I'm scumreading him and he's townreading me?

Hint: we're both telling the truth.

I'd like to note Brian Skies scumreading AP but not voting there, too. In fact, there's a lot of strange interactions between the three (four if you add in orc), and it's really looking like a scumteam.

[Not scumreading PV] Because...?

...My dream told me not to?

If you could get into my head and see how I feel about the game, it's something I think would be difficult for scum to "replicate".

Thus, my posting. Since I? Feel exactly the same fucking way, ESPECIALLY when it comes to Rancid.

(Posting this 'cause Nacho responding to me likely to tick me off and prove my point but should be separated.)

[AngryPidgeon]

So why HAVEN'T you?

Because there is no point? Nothing I do today has any fucking sway and I -was- voting Nacho until him getting townread dissolved that possibility. And I sort of think Nacho is town after last nights drunkfest.

4) Regarding AP townreading Mastin, I explain it in my list of reads. Brian caught it as well. It is that I thought their interactions are weird.

No, there isn't. Unless not-omgusing is a scum tell now. Is this opposite day?

It's pathetically easy. Stay out of the spotlight. Keep townblocs from forming, and induce paranoia in them. For instance, if players are absolutely convinced that they have a townbloc, just with a Thor in it (oh gods, I'm actually using that)...emphasize the need to find the Thor, which induces enough paranoia to break the townbloc into smithereens. Keep the town divided into camps, and have scum on both sides of the camp. Keep cards spread out, so that when necessary, you can chose to stack the deck.

To your credit, you haven't been doing it although AP has been with the way he intercepted Titan/CF conversation.

---

I'm wondering if it makes sense to just lynch AP first. If Mastin is bussing, we'll help him bus. If he's town, then good.

If I flip town Today, how would your reads change?

And just no. You can fact check yourself before posting generic shit like this thanks. The assertion that Im "staying out of the spotlight" id fucking hilarious.

[Just Sheep Us]

@ tammy: our focus has been and will continue to be lynching mastin. this is the main reason the little thoughts that f-16 keeps bringing up from the neighborhood that didn't make the actual game thread were posted in the neighborhood to begin with.

there has been nothing more that we are piegif can say to support a mastin lynch--the last, i dunno, ten real life days? have basically been waiting for the rest of the town to decide how they intend to handle his wagon.

[penguin_alien]

So I've read the Titan ISO and if Tammy's scum playing me I give up on this game. In reading her ISO I've gotten bits of the game when clicking out for context. Which, between that context and Tammy's frustration with mastin and reading the last few pages as I replaced in, made mastin my next priority.

I'm on my tablet right now and won't have good access for case-making for several hours, but this is scum-mastin. I thought when I first started in on her ISO that she might be harangued town, but that fell apart pretty quickly. The sense of trying to boss town around, be believed without relevant support. There's a lot of words, but it goes off on tangents to disguise the lack of immediate relevance. Big speeches about sincerity and conviction, nothing that leads anywhere.

VOTE: mastinSSK

I'm pretty sure I'm going to get an earful about how I can't read mastin, how recognizing her as scum in Resistance and 172 was just happenstance and that I should sit down, shut up, and swallow whatever corrected version of her scum meta mastin wants me to believe.

Not fucking well buying it. I almost got lynched in 172 because I wouldn't step up and take a stand. Heck, I think Nero would still happily lead a post-game wagon on me over there given half a chance, and if scum hadn't killed him/AP hadn't been gunsmithed I'd have eaten a mislynch there. Third time's the charm, this is scum-mastin, and so help me if y'all generate another ten pages of content before lynching obv-scum I...will complain bitterly to Tammy all night.

F-16, as far as your reads wall, I need to get a better sense of some of the players myself before I judge your motives completely, but I get the feeling this might be town-you just because in contrast with Wicked you're pulling your observations into current game events more than drowning people in things they wouldn't follow. In my navel-gazing I'm thinking that I got seduced by your focus on analyzing me and Cabd and lost the outside perspective that it was pretty damn targeted. This feels more accessible and so more like you're trying to be pro-town.

One thing that caught my eye in your wall was PV. I personally have a lot of trouble sorting him until endgame, and sometimes even then. Again, pulling out 172, ffery came in and was a significant part of derailing the wagon on town-him, and if it hasn't come up I'd like to hear her take on him.

I'll compile a more cohesive explanation for why this is scum-mastin when I'm home with proper access to cut and paste functions again and not trying to be coherent in between hands. I'll also prioritize getting that read on BRO Tammy wants, but I also want to look into AP. I don't think I've been good at reading AP before *cough165cough* but coming off 172 if he's scum with mastin I'd like to think I won't be totally oblivious.

[CarbonFiber]

That's a big huge improvement over Clyton at least and I love that post.

Penguin, read my ISO as well. There's a lot of nice stuff in there and if we can solidify reads on each other, that would be a huge step towards solving the game.

[CarbonFiber]

Also, the one thing I most wish we could do right now is to take both of you and Tammy and conjoin both of our neighborhoods together so we can all be one big happy neighborhood but I am just dreaming.

AngryPidgeon: Look at that buddying!

[MastinSSK]

I agree you didn't kill him. I can see your team janitoring the flip if someone shot him since Rancid-scum's a massive inconvenience to you, and having the confidence that you can janitor the first one of you two's flip means that you're not afraid to buddy to shit like you did D1. But you're correct, you didn't kill him.

So basically, you're arguing that Rancid and I are both scum, and that we have a jan power we used on Rancid, but explicitly did NOT kill him.

...

YOU ARE USING THINGS THAT I DID AFTER YOUR CHANGED READ TO JUSTIFY YOUR ORIGINAL CHANGE IN READ.

My current read on you is pretty much composed of your reaction to me scumreading you, how uncomfortable you are with me pushing you. My read before that? It wasn't strong. Townread started dying when everyone else seemed more town, and when you stopped hitting the notes you were hitting D1.

THAT. IS NOT. A FUCKING EXPLANATION. For the original read degradation. This is not a town way to have switched a read. It has scum written all over it.

What notes did I hit on D1, hmm?
What about them wasn't I hitting on D2?

But you never thought to follow up on it?

Yeah? My comment was there. I'm sure if I searched my iso, I'd find a shitload of things that I wanted follow-through on that never came, yet I never thought of giving. Your posting in the QT about me was among them, in that it was something I thought of, but didn't think of following through on, since other things distracted me.

You brushed it off because you didn't think it was completely accurate because F-16 would lie about my suspicions in thread and I wouldn't publicly call him out and correct him for it?

You misrepping fucking scumbag, that statement couldn't have been more clear. I said that F-16 had biases. And that F-16 would be paraphrasing. Fuck, you saw it in Xeno, where Metal Sonic talked about bringing AP around to lynching me. Second-hand info, conveyed through the lens of bias. Not a lie, just not the truth. The two are not mutually fucking exclusive. And guess what? It took you a while to post at all. So of course I didn't think about you calling it wrong. Basically your next fucking post was saying not only right, but an understatement.

I completely went to bat for you and alienated myself ENTIRELY from the neighborhood. Bork has built up a hell of a lot of towncred between them (aka no one even entertained the possibility of us being scum), and I burned it the fuck to the ground because there was no way in hell that I was going to let you get mislynched. I burned that cred during the day when I told BRO he was being an idiot and tried to flashwagon him, and I burned that cred to the ground when I continued arguing overnight (against bork's wishes) that you were town.

You don't burn towncred for defending the truth. You build it. You might alienate players arguing against it, sure, but let's say you hardcore defend me and then I flip town. BAM. All that towncred you burned, instantly rebuilt, just stronger.

Also, nothing here explains your thought process, shows me the why. Behind your thoughts.

And now suddenly, I'm supposedly breaking cover against you and alienating myself from you after already burning my towncred from the neighborhood to the ground because apparently I hate having friends as scum.

This little bit courtesy of F-16. Yes. Because you can spend the first day building the credit, and the rest of the days pushing on mislynches that make sense to push.

Let me put it this way.
Everyone's scumreading me. My iso's ungodly wrong.

What consequences are there to pushing me?

None.

What can be gained from it?

A mislynch. Additionally, the towncredit in having defended me D1 where it mattered.

Is anything lost from it?

No, because everyone thought the same of me, of this being me-as-scum, so you can get away with it.
Nobody would bother calling you out on the change between D1 and D2.

So why not protect me until the end?
Because plans never survive contact with the enemy. I'm sure that was the idea. But something happened that made you panic.
Tammy not townreading you.
Me having an idea of the scumteam.
Something.
Maybe multiple things.

Seeing a change in opportunities.
There are any numerous number of reasons that you could change the plan from protecting me to trying to lynch me. And that's EXACTLY what I think actually happened.

(and all you've done is say you were and switch around a couple of reads: as town you show you're reanalyzing and prove it)

MY. FUCKING. THOUGHT. PROCESS. COULDN'T. BE. ANY. MORE. FUCKING. CLEAR. My reads have changed. A FUCKING TON. And not only have they changed, but I've shown EXACTLY. why. they fucking changed. THERE IS LITERALLY NO WAY THEY COULD BE MORE FUCKING TRANSPARENT. In how I have shown it. Not told it. Fucking shown it. Throughout the fucking day. More has changed than hasn't, and I've shown that.

If you really were reanalyzing like you say you are, you'd be able to see that obvious, obvious fact at least.

I maintain enough sanity to admit that when it comes to your points, my first instinct is, "hmm, fair point". So it triggers my thinking. "Okay. So it's a good point. Don't bias. Don't bias. Think that through." And that triggers the next stream of thoughts. "If he's not scum, who else could be?" I get a mental checklist, but overall come up not really having anything for Nacho. "Well, that's kinda bad, considering you're trying to prove you're

not

biased and that thought shows that you kinda are. But we'll have to do the best we can to work with it. Assuming there's a scumteam that's viable without him, then what?" (Well, I did say I need to refine my process. )

And that goes onto the next. "Okay. Evaluate. It's Nacho, right?" And that makes me think. "I have faith in his competency as a scum player." Which goes on, "...but does that mean he could actually do it as scum?" And I ask myself how I feel about his posting, and the answer's, "kinda artificial, not with the passion of towNacho". And with that, I try to keep it unbiased, and go, "Okay. Scenario making. Which makes more sense?" And run through things. Your version. Then I think about you, and think, "well, that's good, but if he's scum. Let's not cook up some delusional fantasy of what he'd do. Seriously. If he was scum...knowing what I do about him...what would he do?" And that creates what you see, which triggers the thought, "That looks plausible. Does it violate occam's razor?" If not, "does it sound like I'm BSing to myself", to which, the best I can get is generally a "maybe, I dunno". So the thought gets posted, incomplete as it may be, as essentially,

"Well, this is what you'd do as scum, with what you're saying being what you'd do as town." And final analysis on it being, "I have no fucking clue; I can't tell, since both seem just about equally viable." Which triggers the final thought, "So what's my read?" And that's where I find, "...overall, still seeing more scum than town".

But it's not convenient for you to bring up as scum, so you just happily ignore all motive for me changing my reads the way that I did as scum and instead cry "look, a contradiction!".

Oh this is rich.

Rich

.
Coming from a player trying to paint me as scum.

Chain of command.

...Where you were doubting your read on me D1 and even scumread me at one point, and were promptly nightkilled immediately? Of course I didn't forget, that's one of the fucking games I've been using as an example for why you have read me correctly.

I can see gigantic alienations in the form of your treatment of BRO's anxiety attack, and your latest rant to ffery about tossing her diplomat hat down.

...Both of which are reach-outs, frustrated and on the verge of giving up on the players altogether, but reach-outs all the same. BROseidon's freak-out was over scumreading me, and almost getting lynched. I have said multiple fucking times that's what I see it as being, boiled down. That his main reason for breaking down was over a read I knew him to be wrong about. That's my fucking reach-out. Because bluntly, whether he wants to hear it or not, that's the fucking truth.

Similarly for ffery. She flat-out fucking refused to work with me, in spite of me being town, and me having come to an understanding about her that made her basically conftown.

I have reached-out to every fucking single player alive, practically. I have engaged Clyton. Kinda sorta engaged PV, though not really. Kinda sorta engaged Red Gyarados. Have been working extensively with Tammy and F-16. I've also multiple times dealt with DesBRO and pie. I've not really had a chance to reach out to Fox/Hound, but have townread them and without even having engaged each other, I think we've come kinda to an understanding.

Probably more. But it's there. In all of my damn posting.

I'm glad you found your scum stride again.

Know what my scum stride is?
Paranoia.
Book of Shadows.
Attack on Titan.

You know. Games where I was in control basically the whole fucking time. And again, what they all had in common? Is that I had zero to give the town, always working in the background to coordinate their downfall.

No scum game can flourish without the ability to post, and post a lot.

Yes. But post this fucking much? You're ignoring the mindset. The motive. The reason.

You're ignoring the very thought process you know to exist about me

. About how I work as scum, setting up town to die. About how I try to stay outside of the fray. Instead, you're saying that I'm jumping into it as scum, and that I cannot control my impulses as scum to post...when you of all fucking people know that as scum I have a better control over my impulses than normal, in that my scumplay is deadly-effective simply because I am a fucking master. MASTER. Of timing.

I don't know where you get your motivation, I don't care where you get your motivation.

AND THIS IS WHY YOU ARE A FUCKING SCUMBAG, BECAUSE A TOWNACHO MOST CERTAINLY

WOULD

.
Because my motivation for posting this much couldn't be any fucking more clearly indicative of my mindset this game.

[AngryPidgeon]

Hey Mastin, I think PA just sunk your battleship. Is it a scumship though?

[MastinSSK]

I couldn't win the fight against you with you-as-scum and me-as-town.

This was bullshit then, and this is bullshit now.

Like fucking hell it is. THE DAMN VOTECOUNT IS PROOF ENOUGH. I know you're scum, here. But frustratingly, it will not go through.

I only break cover when I'm absolutely 100% sure that I'm going to get that mislynch and I'm 100% if I fail that we will win if we fall anyways.

AND THIS IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO FUCKING SAY IS

EXACTLY

WHAT IS GOING ON!