Tales of You (Endgame)

[CarbonFiber]

Just remembered why I wanted Mastin lynched that I forgot to add in earlier:

His reads changes are opportunistic as hell on a couple of levels:

1) It feels like he is trying too hard not to have "static" reads and is switching them around like crazy to feel as if they are changing.

2) The changes themselves feel opportunistic. He pushes PV but drops that suspicion when massive resistance occurs. He pushed Fox/Hound but switched after Beli gave him a load of crap for it. He pushed Ffery when some players were growing increasingly frustrated with trying to interact with her notably desp/pv/maybe me.

3) RG read actually doesn't make a ton of sense either since they were sitting on the Nacho wagon for a while and it doesn't look like scum v scum at all.

[CarbonFiber]

Also, @ ffery, I feel like he is a bigger threat than AP if they are scumpartners.

[Yggdra Union]

I'm leaning towards it.

And it's the only likely lynch.

you owe me a sheep. sheep me on mastin plz?

-Y

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Also, @ ffery, I feel like he is a bigger threat than AP if they are scumpartners.

I want to see what beli thinks when he catches up with the weekend's worth of posting. He and I have flipped positions in terms of willingness to lynch Mastin, but I think the differences are pretty mild. I know he'd compromise on AP as of a couple of days ago.

I think the lynch is basically sealed, though.

[penguin_alien]

@ Penguin, looking forward to hearing your case. I'd also like to see where you are at with the rest of your reads. Have you and Tammy discussed BRO's meltdown post yet? I was hoping to hear your thoughts on that too whenever you are caught up and get around to it.

Saw this in preview when posting my (partial) mastin thoughts. It's 3 AM, so this won't be comprehensive. Tammy and I haven't discussed it yet, except that she wants my read on BRO.

I'll say straight up that based on everything I know about BRO via playing Mafia with him here and offsite and hydraing, there's no way he fakes that. If (and that's a big if from reading 3020) he's scum, he's still genuinely upset at the way mastin is going after him. I will say that from my experience with scum-mastin, she can go after teammates in very unproductive ways (see: Open 541, where we almost blew LyLo because mastin thought it would be a good idea to push Mhork while ignoring all the planning in the scum QT).

HOWEVER.

Much as I know BRO shakes up his scum game and makes some strange plays as either alignment, this doesn't feel insincere at all, or to be more precise, coming from anything other than frustrated town. To be honest, I almost feel like just snipping this post out of my mental calculations, because it feels way intrusive for the game to have put him in a situation where he felt that he needed to share it. I won't, because it also feels wrong to disregard his forthrightness.

I'm sorry, there are some things in his ISO that I noticed while skimming for the 'meltdown' post (although I'm not really comfortable calling it a meltdown; heaven knows as someone who's dealt with issues that were hard to discuss I know exactly how painful it is to reveal that stuff, and calling it a meltdown feels condescending, to be frank) that made me think he could be scum and some things that made me think town. My very brief overall impression is that BRO came into the game excited about the player list and anticipating a fun game. There's some banter-type stuff that feels alignment-independent and so in my paranoia might make me think scum-BRO. But as he keeps posting, there's super-genuine sounding posts AND, more importantly, posts that read like the insightful BRO I'm used to watching work in-hydra when I darn well know his alignment.

I'm on the verge of conking out, but hopefully that gives you an idea of where I am. I may not be good at reading BRO as a mafia player, but I'd like to think I have a sense of his personality well enough that I know him hitting a limit wasn't staged. Maybe I'm presuming too much, given that we're more Mafia friends than 'dish about life' friends, but that's how my brain works. I'll read the other 300+ posts from the JSU hydra after I get some sleep and try to get a sense of their alignment here.

Because, F-16, as much as I respect your play and would like to work with you if you're town here, if we hadn't misread BRO in Wicked I'd have neighborized him over you-Ghatokaca in a heartbeat, and I know town-BRO can game-solve like a maniac.

P-edit: I'm sorry, I can't react to everything that's elapsed since I started writing this up...tomorrow.

[CarbonFiber]

Also, @ ffery, I feel like he is a bigger threat than AP if they are scumpartners.

I want to see what beli thinks when he catches up with the weekend's worth of posting. He and I have flipped positions in terms of willingness to lynch Mastin, but I think the differences are pretty mild. I know he'd compromise on AP as of a couple of days ago.

I think the lynch is basically sealed, though.

So, you are saying you are the one that wants to lynch Mastin and Beli thinks he could be town?

[penguin_alien]

I'm hitting the highlights here because it's late and I'm tired and I'm already probably not going to get to read all of JSU, AP, and CF in that priority order before the end of the day phase.

None of my reads are jokes. Not even the ones on the players who haven't posted. ("...What." Yes, you heard it. Dead-serious townreads even on the players who haven't posted. Why? 'Cause I said so.)

Translated: my reads should be taken seriously, even if they're clearly inexplicable.

Her reaction to AP replacing in in 1008: looks to me like mastin panics. Maybe she's scum with AP and was freaking out because of 172, maybe she's scum not with AP and was trying to be preemptive. But the random quoting with the 'trust me, this is AP-scum' isn't how she'd go about pushing an actual scum read on AP.

The problem with actual obvtown entrances is that they're often not tangible. Like...I know I am obvtown. But I can't tell you why SSK was or why I am. I know it's true. I can't point to it being true.

You...are. Basically, actual obvtownness is not solidified; faked obvtownness can be pointed to.

Here's more supposed inability to explain a read. And she doesn't even try. Which is the damning part.

To CF:

And you wonder why I scumread you.

Quotes a random post, doesn't elaborate, says it's obv-scum.

Go ahead. Because I already have. Do me a favor, BROseidon. If you're town? Never sign up for a game I'm in again, because your arrogance. You making the same fucking mistake. Game. after. fucking. game. Is godfuckingawful.

I dare you to tell me this isn't bossy at a minimum. It boggles my mind, quite frankly, that you believe you have the perspective to call people like BRO and Squirrel Girl bossy/arrogant/etc. (yes, I kept reading the post-game of Mala's Charmed game and I disagree with you 100%) And as far as what you say in 1264 about trying to control one's arrogance? There is no such thing as trying here. You either do or you don't. I'm not giving you any points for supposedly trying to control your arrogance when the outcome shows no impact of said claimed efforts.

I'm going to be blunt.

Today, we're lynching one of {Just Sheep Us, The Fox and The Hound, AngryPidgeon}.
RBD is going to gladiate one of the two survivors.

I'd be OK with someone laying things out so clearly, except there aren't any arguments for any of these people except for 'I believe it is so, fall in line.' No proposal to the thread that people refocus here. Just that's what'll happen. Oh, and RBD? You get to use your ability as mastin dictates. Have fun...

I wasn't before, and I was fine with a push on me. But when you tried to get a Rancid mislynch, that I couldn't let go through. So I took command. I'll step down when I have good reason to do so. But for right now, I am in control. There are others who have influence. I am not a soul tyrant. But ultimately, in spite of me being the one person who has no vote, I am the girl with the most control over the votes.

See, here, mastin's slipping. Fancy words aside, she's not interested in working *with* anyone. It's her way or the highway.

AP's just scum.

I've admittedly wavered a bit here and there. But he's just...not town.

Oh, hi, persuasive logic. He is scum because he is not town.

1675: more trying to look like a naturally developing town read, instead ends up being very disinterested in persuading anyone, which given his hesitance to give Tammy a town read, is scum-mastin mounting an easily dismantled argument.

OK, I can't keep my eyes open any more. I'll keep going when I have more time in the morning or afternoon; I know we're near deadline. Sorry...

P-edit: Now I'm really tired and kind of sad, actually. I think a clear head will help.

[CarbonFiber]

@ Penguin, looking forward to hearing your case. I'd also like to see where you are at with the rest of your reads. Have you and Tammy discussed BRO's meltdown post yet? I was hoping to hear your thoughts on that too whenever you are caught up and get around to it.

Saw this in preview when posting my (partial) mastin thoughts. It's 3 AM, so this won't be comprehensive. Tammy and I haven't discussed it yet, except that she wants my read on BRO.

I'll say straight up that based on everything I know about BRO via playing Mafia with him here and offsite and hydraing, there's no way he fakes that. If (and that's a big if from reading 3020) he's scum, he's still genuinely upset at the way mastin is going after him. I will say that from my experience with scum-mastin, she can go after teammates in very unproductive ways (see: Open 541, where we almost blew LyLo because mastin thought it would be a good idea to push Mhork while ignoring all the planning in the scum QT).

HOWEVER.

Much as I know BRO shakes up his scum game and makes some strange plays as either alignment, this doesn't feel insincere at all, or to be more precise, coming from anything other than frustrated town. To be honest, I almost feel like just snipping this post out of my mental calculations, because it feels way intrusive for the game to have put him in a situation where he felt that he needed to share it. I won't, because it also feels wrong to disregard his forthrightness.

I'm sorry, there are some things in his ISO that I noticed while skimming for the 'meltdown' post (although I'm not really comfortable calling it a meltdown; heaven knows as someone who's dealt with issues that were hard to discuss I know exactly how painful it is to reveal that stuff, and calling it a meltdown feels condescending, to be frank) that made me think he could be scum and some things that made me think town. My very brief overall impression is that BRO came into the game excited about the player list and anticipating a fun game. There's some banter-type stuff that feels alignment-independent and so in my paranoia might make me think scum-BRO. But as he keeps posting, there's super-genuine sounding posts AND, more importantly, posts that read like the insightful BRO I'm used to watching work in-hydra when I darn well know his alignment.

I'm on the verge of conking out, but hopefully that gives you an idea of where I am. I may not be good at reading BRO as a mafia player, but I'd like to think I have a sense of his personality well enough that I know him hitting a limit wasn't staged. Maybe I'm presuming too much, given that we're more Mafia friends than 'dish about life' friends, but that's how my brain works. I'll read the other 300+ posts from the JSU hydra after I get some sleep and try to get a sense of their alignment here.

Because, F-16, as much as I respect your play and would like to work with you if you're town here, if we hadn't misread BRO in Wicked I'd have neighborized him over you-Ghatokaca in a heartbeat, and I know town-BRO can game-solve like a maniac.

P-edit: I'm sorry, I can't react to everything that's elapsed since I started writing this up...tomorrow.

Okay. Well, yeah I was reading BRO as strongly town too so glad to see you agree with that as well.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Also, @ ffery, I feel like he is a bigger threat than AP if they are scumpartners.

I want to see what beli thinks when he catches up with the weekend's worth of posting. He and I have flipped positions in terms of willingness to lynch Mastin, but I think the differences are pretty mild. I know he'd compromise on AP as of a couple of days ago.

I think the lynch is basically sealed, though.

So, you are saying you are the one that wants to lynch Mastin and Beli thinks he could be town?

correct.

[Red Gyarados]

This doesn't sound like a scum P_A catch-up. Maybe Clyton really was town and I was being paranoid for no reason.

Vote: MastinSSK

[The Fox and the Hound]

I think Desbro is town, Tammy. I had to Iso their slot to figure out what you guys were all talking about, and the in-game trigger to his melt-down vs yours in too many heads are different. Yous was getting ran up for being lynched without being able to do anything first, while bro's is more being bullied and not being listened to, from what I could see. Both are pretty legit (and I am a little weirded out by desps inability to see both as such as he was your hydra partner) and I think you're right to assume that a persons emotional state alone isn't alignment indicative, but what is, is the trigger.

If people are not going to answer my questions, please actually say that you're not (preferably in some creatively snarky way) rather than make it unclear whether you're reading my posts or not.

Are you honestly saying that using stale meta is a scumtell? I mean, I dont think it means anything alignment wise? If PV is scum and thinks he can get Tammy ML'd by bringing up stale meta in a sleazy way, hes sorely mistaken. And I tend to doubt that purposely misrepping meta is something PV as scum would do in the first place. So I dont really think that even if the game hes bringing up is egregiously out of date, that means anything about PV's wincon in this game. Im interested to hear you talk to me about how it is if thats what you are hinting at here.

The problem I have here is that the question of 'why would town do it' arises. I've played with PV a fair bit and have found him to be pretty logical about things. If he's just played a game with Tammy-town where she wasn't so active/influential/full of content, then why does he point to a game from a long time ago and accuse Tammy of not being as active/influential/full of content here??? I do get that the question of 'why would scum do it?' also comes up, but I could see scum being desperate if all/most of the reasonably unanimous townreads are actually town, and while I may be too influenced by a period of burnt-out PV, I haven't seen his play as scum to be particularly strong.

Obviously I am not anywhere near sure of this else I'd be wanting to vote for him, but I don't understand how you could have liked PV out of the PV/Tammy for sticking his neck out on a read that doesn't actually make any sense.

And you probably are town for actually giving more than zero shits about this while that went down. DV back me ip

If I thought this I would have stopped scumreading mastin a long time ago. I did consider it, but I think the difference could just as easily be down to timing, as when I checked I think mastin's long V/LA period was before this game started, and I know I'm going to be much more eager about a game that's fresh than one I have to catch up on lots of pages on.

I fucking told you all Clyton was town.

K this could be scum with mastin TBH if mastin actually is scum.

How can you think we're scum with mastin after all the Day 1 drama our slot had with them? We're also doing a pretty crappy job of deciding whether to bus or save our buddy!

And are you reading all of Mastin's posts? Be honest.

Mastin lynch >>>>>>>> AP lynch for me fwiw.

Also Ceph has given me as much of an ok as I'm going to get on this, so just going for it. If I misunderstood he can change it.

Vote: MastinSSK

[Yggdra Union]

^L-1

[MastinSSK]

Just remembered why I wanted Mastin lynched that I forgot to add in earlier:

His reads changes are opportunistic as hell on a couple of levels:

1) It feels like he is trying too hard not to have "static" reads and is switching them around like crazy to feel as if they are changing.

2) The changes themselves feel opportunistic. He pushes PV but drops that suspicion when massive resistance occurs. He pushed Fox/Hound but switched after Beli gave him a load of crap for it. He pushed Ffery when some players were growing increasingly frustrated with trying to interact with her notably desp/pv/maybe me.

3) RG read actually doesn't make a ton of sense either since they were sitting on the Nacho wagon for a while and it doesn't look like scum v scum at all.

Ok these are all very nice points. But how is Mastin scummy for doing these? Explain, yourself!

-SSK

[MastinSSK]

This doesn't sound like a scum P_A catch-up. Maybe Clyton really was town and I was being paranoid for no reason.

Vote: MastinSSK

And so you vote us? Why?

[MastinSSK]

^L-1

See this really, really shouldn't be happening right now. I in no way see how Mastin has played scummy. It seems people are either making giant leaps in their logic or just oversimplifying Mastin's play. It's not really that fair.

[Just Sheep Us]

And no, that's not drunkposting or tiredposting. That is rageposting so much that my head turned red and my hands typed at the actual speed of my brain, shaking violently.
You can call me scum all you fucking want. I'm fine with that. You're wrong, oh so fucking seriously wrong. But that's you.
But I would ne ver fucking lie aborur theory in agame.
NEVER.
'FUicking.
EVER.
Like aborutr ggodsm aed feur in a game.

if you aren't scumreading mastin after this post you are doing it wrong

[Titan]

I kinda want the hammer. I feel like I deserve it after getting knocked off balance and the crap I had to put up with day one.

Reading Falcon's post reminds me of how odd his attack on ffery was.

Also, if mastin comes back scum, I'm just going to believe that rancid was scum too; otherwise I can't understand their actions and reads.

If Mastin is town, I just don't know what to do.

Still think that Pere is scum though regardless.

Still think you guys hiding in the neighborhood is garbage and des' posts the other night were atrocious.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Reading Falcon's post reminds me of how odd his attack on ffery was.

which Falcon post?

Mastin's attack?

I left a question about hammering in our QT, but I'm fine if someone else wants to go ahead on.

[Titan]

Just remembered why I wanted Mastin lynched that I forgot to add in earlier:

His reads changes are opportunistic as hell on a couple of levels:

1) It feels like he is trying too hard not to have "static" reads and is switching them around like crazy to feel as if they are changing.

2) The changes themselves feel opportunistic. He pushes PV but drops that suspicion when massive resistance occurs. He pushed Fox/Hound but switched after Beli gave him a load of crap for it. He pushed Ffery when some players were growing increasingly frustrated with trying to interact with her notably desp/pv/maybe me.

3) RG read actually doesn't make a ton of sense either since they were sitting on the Nacho wagon for a while and it doesn't look like scum v scum at all.

This. I posted my thoughts about his attack on you resembling his posts to me when he was scum in Attack on Titan. Some of that I got distracted from when Pere started accusing me of not scum hunting and then later distracting from a Mastin lynch when I was actually discussing my Mastin suspicions.

I then thought some of his defense sounded town because of conviction, but I still can't get over just how odd the sudden attack on you that was.

[Titan]

Maybe it wasn't attack, but it was that weird you have a problem, you need to figure things out post that was really reminiscent to his tone to me in Titan.

[Titan]

Like if Mastin is scum, then it makes so much more sense that Rancid were scum too because they literally started attacking me while Mastin made that crappy push against me. It still feels odd the way they did that.

I just don't know. I just don't care at this point.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Beli's good with hammering.

I have problems with Rancid-scum, and one of the big ones is Nati's appeal to me when I voted Mastin. That was the kind of card that lasts for a number of games when used as town. Burning it on the very next game as scum would be pretty short sighted.

Doesn't mean anything to players who aren't me.

[Titan]

VOTE: mastin

[Cabd]

This is a bump

[Cabd]

So is this!