Tales of You (Dead zone)

[mastin2]

*grumble, grumble, 'keeping mastin around would keep noise high' my ass, grumble grumble*

Butyeah.
AP's scumposting.
PV's claim I simply don't see as town, least of all with how it was handled.
Mara is acting like she did last Tales game, and orc's been highly suspect basically the whole time.
Nacho's actually the weakest read of them honestly, and even then I'm feeling slightly strong about it.

I mean, yeah, PA/Clyton and Fox/Hound could be scum, but I dunno. Doesn't feel like it.

[mastin2]

SONOFABITCH.
AP.
Nacho.
And now Mara/Orc.

ALL PLAYING MEDIATOR FOR TAMMY/F-16.

Goddammit.
God damn you three to hell. You magnificent scumbags.

Tammy/F-16 is noise. Noisenoisenoisenoisenoise. And the scum are acting like they're trying to be reasonable and break it up, when that fight continuing on without a clear victor is exactly the kind of thing they want.

Guh. This musta happened a lot on D1, too.

[mastin2]

GAH.
THESE ARE THE TYPES OF THINGS THAT I MOST CERTAINLY WOULD BE PICKING UP ON IF I WAS STILL ALIVE.

This is why I sometimes REALLY hate being town.

Also, if I'm right.
Just sayin'.
Total fucking revenge.

[mastin2]

If I'm even remotely right, by the way, the town players in the game owe me BIG time.

[Cabd]

Not really.

You made so much noise and called nearly everyone scum, you were bound to get one or two right eventually.

That's the primary mistake this gamer has had so far. People are letting their ego and "being right" drive their play, and town is suffering for it.

[zMuffinMan]

i thought i was writing logical points for the most part and i wasn't pretending my reads were so fucking amazing that i should be sheeted just because im amazing

i mean the hated miller stuff was *arguably* unnecessary and i suppose i coulda pointed out how shit f16's reads were in a nicer way, but other than that *shrug*

not my fault people can't read mastin for shit

[mastin2]

You made so much noise and called nearly everyone scum, you were bound to get one or two right eventually.

But I was focusing on narrowing down onto the important factors and figuring things out.

People are letting their ego and "being right" drive their play, and town is suffering for it.

For a large, large, LARGE portion of D2, I wasn't. I was trying to figure things out, and bridge the gap, acknowledging that I wasn't going to be perfect. If it were my reads-being-good that got ignored, I wouldn't be complaining. It's me-being-right-about-a-lot-of-things that I'm talking about, of which reads are a small portion. General gamestate. What the scum's roles are, what the roles do, what's happening between players, and whatnot. I approached a very large number of these issues rationally (at first, at least), bringing them up as subjects of interest.

...Which then were promptly ignored by those scumreading me. (i.e., everyone.) Thus, the ITYS score. Things that I mentioned but then changed my mind on, sure, yeah, can't claim any credit for that. Things that were, are, and will be proven to be true, which I did, have, and continue to mention/predict? Those, those I think I can.

i thought i was writing logical points for the most part and i wasn't pretending my reads were so fucking amazing that i should be sheeted just because im amazing

i mean the hated miller stuff was *arguably* unnecessary and i suppose i coulda pointed out how shit f16's reads were in a nicer way, but other than that *shrug*

not my fault people can't read mastin for shit

Basically, this. Though partially substituting me for Rancid, in that it really, really shoulda been obvious we were both town.

Speaking of which...

I'm hoping this weekend to see if I can make some sense out of things now that the question of Mastin is gone.

You know, the whole point of an informative lynch is to have tangible information available to you regardless of what the lynchee flips.
If your whole info relied on a player flipping scum? THEN IT IS A FREAKIN' TERRIBLE INFORMATION LYNCH.

(Which is what you're basically saying, here, since if you weren't, then you'd have something from my townflip.)

*grumble, grumble, gripe, gripe*

If you are referring to my saying that we should lynch AP, then yeah that was me wondering if Mastin was genuinely town that caught AP.

So how 'bout actually listening to me having caught him? And respect my reads? Among them Mara/Orc, Nacho, and a scum-vig? (Which I thought to be RG but is PV.)

Also, I really really want to believe PA is scum here for pushing so strongly for a F-16 mislynch using the exact same damn logic she used to push mine, ignoring the exact same damn thing on his side. (That F-16 snapped.)
Really, really want to.

...But her readslist tells me, no. She's town. She's fairly competent town.
She just, goddammit, has her strongest read wrong when if she were to focus on literally any other read she'd be fine.

This fucking game.

[pieguyn]

ok so Clyton said he was replacing out due to "RL reasons" and he just now signed up for another game

AP and penguin_alien are scum for sure

also I could potentially see 1x scumvig in a Cabd game, especially with janitor'ed flip

[pieguyn]

In all seriousness, the reads based list in 146 is the same as mine was N1

we should totally hydra

I'd love to finally play a game for once where I don't get paranoid as fuck about you and have to figure you out and end up scumreading you as town

I'm still so butthurt that mastin killed me N2 the only time I ever had a strong townread on you =.=

[pieguyn]

btw for my question I was gonna send in

"did one of CF, Titan, JSU, Nacho, Red Gyrardos, and Fox and Hound perform a killing action on me N2"

so I could see if there were any scum in my townpile but that really tells me fuck all ;w;

[pieguyn]

the only thing stopping me from putting Fox and Hound as scum is DV. like every time he posts it just calms my mind

but then I really can't figure out who else it could be so

[Mac]

AP, BWS, PV and Orci sounds about right.

Orcinus being one shot unlynchable iirc? PV scumvig>janitor, AP voting BWS in in the 1v1 when they were clearly winning was cheeky scumfuckery of the highest order.

[pieguyn]

I'm thinking
AP, penguin_alien, fox and hound, PV

I don't think cabd would put in a scum role that can avoid being lynched and put 2 townies up for lynch after his experience being punished for lynching scum in touhou IN

[zMuffinMan]

i think cabd is a dick so it's entirely possible

[zMuffinMan]

don't retroactively modkill me pls! i didn't mean it!

[zMuffinMan]

we should totally hydra

I'd love to finally play a game for once where I don't get paranoid as fuck about you and have to figure you out and end up scumreading you as town

I'm still so butthurt that mastin killed me N2 the only time I ever had a strong townread on you =.=

maybe!

but it's easy to tell when i'm town! see flowchart i created: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p5705332

[mastin2]

I was on pins and needles for L4D to end so I could refer to it in this game.

So was I. To show you precisely why my play this game was absolutely NOTHING like that game, in that my play that game was me specifically playing in a specific manner that was highly advantageous to us as a whole, albeit placing myself in increased danger.

Again, how is anyone that thought Mastin/RBD scum confident enough to use their scumreads as a basis for reading other people??? Even it wasn't for me thinking everyone was scum at the moment, there's no way I'm going to be confident in a scumread after that. Sure, I might pretend to be so that chances of people sheeping me rises from 0% to 2%, but actually having it influence a read either means you're insanely arrogant (posts today such as addressed to Nati/Muffin indicate otherwise) or it's a fake reason to suspect someone! So, what gives?

I really hope Fox/Hound is town, because this is the first 'sane' player posting their sanity in a way that looks town.

I don't have much of an opinion on AP's D3 posts, they are mostly null.

LIKE HELL THEY ARE! AP couldn't be posting any more like a cheeky scumfuck if he tried. It's just that the ONE damn person who could TELL you this is dead.

I submit 3 names every night and the mafia team selects one for me to get either Replica or Not Replica on. I was allowed to target Kagura on N1 and got no result which was weird. I got Not Replica back on BWS last night. Im in Tales of Hearts. Calcedny Arcome, Town Lawful Commander. I think I claimed all that before but its possible I havent.

No, you didn't. I asked you to, but people ignored it in the "lol, mastin so scum" spiel. The only aspect of that you claimed was the 3 names each night and cop and the no-result. Not even the Replica/Not Replica part was claimed, yet alone, the Tales of Hearts, the name, the rolename, or the age. (Which you still didn't claim.)

This is why, when I say to lynch AP...YOU DAMN WELL LYNCH AP.

They were both town and they both tunneled on mastin-town very recently in my mini theme (BRO more than desp I think but Im pretty sure both did) and it was just incredibly similar looking back. Im weirded out that neither of these 2 had any doubt about this after misreading mastin so bad recently.

Thus my scumread on them D1 until the meltdown told me town. And then the snark at them after the meltdown when I realized they were repeating history without a second of thought about them having done so. (For the record, I believe that makes BROseidon 0-5 in reading me, though I forget how many games we've had together exactly.) But they are still town.

I don't see why he as scum would stick his neck out there to shove that cart forward when it was already headed in the direction steadily, based off the timing of his pressure and flip-flop on mastin.

Except the wagon was stalling before Nacho began pushing it.

This whole post sucks, by the way. AP seriously couldn't be posting more like a scumbag than what he is right now.

@Tammy- this does look like a freakout on both of your parts. He makes statments and asks questions to three people.

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck, now it's all four of them.
All fucking four of them.
Playing the god-damned mediator.
And it's just those fucking four.
AP. Nacho. Mara/Orc. And now, PV.

Goddammit.

[mastin2]

Mastin? Is that you? Did you get reincarnated into a 3rd hydra head with Tammy?

No, but Tammy might be the new me, just like F-16 could be the new me, and by their powers combined, them together would CERTAINLY be the new me.
...It's just a matter of which together, for which me. Together in misery and hostility, emotional me. Together in reads, scumhunting me.
Sadly, the former seems to be dominating.

I thought it read fake as hell when mastin did it, but well, apparently it wasn't.

Oh, that most certainly was not fake. I tried to not do it specifically because I knew people would think it was fake since I tired-post all the time and it's somewhat-faked, so rage-posting I knew wouldn't exactly help.
...It's just that unlike tired-posting which I can easily fix by forcing lucidity, rageposting my attempt to do the same only made it WORSE.

I would also like to note that Fox/Hound, again, is the only one rationally dealing with cooling the players down. Compare their cooldown posts to Nacho's, AP's, Mara/Orc's, and PV's. The difference isn't just length, but also sincerity and intent and most importantly of all, tone. Revealing the mindset behind them. The scum players say with words things that should calm them, but deliver said words in a way that makes the fight even more heated.
The town player (Fox/Hound) says the words but actually means it and is actually trying to defuse the situation, and get players on the same page. Scum, increasing emotions; town, trying to limit those emotions.

It's really, really huge a difference.

[mastin2]

By the way, there's one very simple way that AP can be scum, setting up DesBRO.
And that's him having a role...but also being a Godfather as a separate aspect OF his role.
I had two passives, scum could have a passive and an active ability.

Really not that hard.

It's not necessarily the simplest explanation, but it's the explanation making the most sense. Katsuki isn't going to claim in this manner as scum.
Thus, Katsuki is town. The timing of the claim is one factor, the handling of the role and the claim is overall another, since Katsuki pressed in an insanely town manner.

DesBRO could be misunderstanding their role or could be scum, true, but could also be town, not thinking that AP could be scum-somehow-not-showing-as-replicant (we have a town replicant, so why not a scum-not-replicant?).

Really, AP's claim which we already know to be partially false thanks to dead QT stuff is the most sketch.

Which F-16 picks up a lot of in 5562.
And Tammy emphasizes in 5570.
^5, team!

[mastin2]

Like, seriously, not that hard.

Ignore the freakin' roles. It's a damn Cabd game. Look at how they're USING the roles, handling it.

AP? Parading around shouting that he is conftown. Insisting on one scenario being the ONLY possible scenario, in which Katsuki-scum claims a guilty to get him lynched.

DesBRO? Still thinking Katsuki is scum, but at least explaining it better and not basically boasting.

Katsuki? Handled the whole claim remarkably well, and while having an idea for what's going on, is not insisting on that scenario being the only possible one.

Difference between night and day.

AP is goading, parading around DesBRO's result as the ultimate evidence.
Katsuki is pleading, confused, but trying to figure out things, yet knowing AP is scum all the same.

Tammy/F-16 are being extremely rational about the whole thing.

And Nacho just blindly sided with AP over Katsuki, without a second of hesitation.

Really not. that. damn. hard.

Seriously, AP's abusing Occam's razor. NONE of the explanations are simple. None of them are even clearly the simplest. There is no simple, merely most-reasonable, in that there are scenarios that make sense and others that don't.

And the scenario making the most sense is that he is scum, and Katsuki isn't.


...Which I am beaten to by F-16 in 5582.
Seriously, go team! Keep it up; don't suddenly doubt yourselves!

People are asking me why Panda would do this as scum and I really dont care.

And a town-AP would.

You guys could be a team. You guys could both be town. Maybe this is katsuki scum fake claiming but it goes against what I've experienced with katsuki as scum. I suppose he could be making an egregious misstep by thinking a player was more lynchable than he is, but I'm not certain I buy that.

Keep thinking!
Among the others are that someone's misinterpreted their role, or that AP's scum with an ability that fools DesBRO. You can do it!

[mastin2]

Oh, FUCK.
I just realized.

My ITYS score just increased by one. Know why?
A guilty result on D3...resulting in a 1v1 between AP and a head of Unmasked Kit. It's Katsuki rather than myself, but the idea's the same.

TOTAL FUCKING REVENGE.
Goddammit.

[mastin2]

AP's totally going to use this game as an example of how to get revenge on a player when it's over.
This is HIS Anything Goes.

Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

[Yulia Jue]

So your guess right now for the scumteam is {nacho, AP, magenta, ???} mastin?

[Natirasha]

The funny part is that a certain player claiming an action would probably just break the game right now.

[mastin2]

So your guess right now for the scumteam is {nacho, AP, magenta, ???} mastin?

AP, Nacho, Magenta, and PV, yes. Quite explicitly.

Oh but I don't know that cabd would use that role as it was again. I'd have to check the dead thread but I'm pretty sure I remember him saying that it should have been a bit nerfed.

Yeah, and my version where he's scum but not a replicant (or a replicant that appears not to be a replicant), WHILE having a real ability, is exactly that, a nerfed version.

I am still not sure how the game makes any sense if Penguin is town. Assuming AP and BRO-Desp are also town, and Cupcake is scum. PV is confirmed as vig, and if he shoots again, that's pretty much a town confirmation as I doubt scum would have more than one extra kill. In any case, the janitoring seems like a good way to nerf the vig and his target made sense from a town POV. Also, I am assuming Breakfast is town. That leaves three more scum among RG, Fox, Magenta, and Nacho. I'm not entirely sure if the game makes sense that way.

Well, the solution here is to readjust your townreads-off-of-role, like AP and PV. Then it can make more sense. Especially when placing Kats back into town.

I don't understand why you're in such a hurry to end the game day.

Because, y'know. He's scum.

The thing that pisses me off most about this day is that I can see AP gloating over getting me lynched despite a guilty.

Fuck after what I did to you and bro you guys enjoy it because its not gonna last.

Funny how we think alike even when not in a hydra. /commented on this earlier today.

I think it's possible that AP is faking the results while still being truthful about who he targeted

The thought did cross my mind. (You're not town for bringing it up, though.)

But then in order for him to know his night one action should fail, he'd have to be scum with nacho.

*cough*

Katsuki's 5699 is pretty dang awesome, too.

A godfather rolecop maybe? That still doesn't account for des tracking him there if katsukis telling the truth.

My basic working theory is that AP did visit Stalin, and Katsuki's role did work, but AP doesn't know his role didn't work, because it did, just not now; it got delayed whatever the delay may be.

There are any numerous variations on the basic theory, though, that AP's scum with a role power. Like that AP is scum, with Katsuki's role failing yet AP succeeding in having targeted Stalin. Too many variables to account for.

Frankly, they should just be lynching off of play.

...Which, y'know.
Still points squarely at lynching AP ANYWAY.

Pedit: a godfather roleblocker?

Thought of that, too. Godfather-something, yes.

If des is town and literally said that in the neighborhood my respect for his town game has plummeted to the bottom of the fucking barrel.

Welcome to how I feel about basically the entirety of the town players who pushed me as being scum, consistently.

And, yeah, DesBRO is town.

I am starting to think Penguin is town because this probably wouldn't be the way scum-her would interact with me.

'bout time! Now figure out that Katsuki's town for 100%, plz.

I have concerns Nacho and AP are scum together. This is almost entirely a tinfoil hat theory but it is possible they could have enjoyed creating a ton of chaos this game and Nacho asked AP to hydra with him.

Tinfoil?
Try Mastinfoil; I was just telling you that ALMOST ALL OF DAY TWO.

Mastin's reads aren't extremely helpful besides a few strong ones like AP and Nacho. At some point or the other, she accused nearly the entire living playerlist of being scum.

So don't pay attention to random spots in my iso; pay attention to the damn ending spots where I had four names, and then the reasons for each. In which you'd realize that PV would go back into my scumlist for the vig claim.

Seriously. This wasn't a case where my reads changed every other post to the bitter end. I was there, settled down, with a final fucking reads list, four damn players in a neatly-wrapped package. All you'd have to do to read my posts and follow my will is realize that one name (Red Gyarados) is there for a roleclaim that PeregrineV has now done...which means that a living me would put him in Red Gyarados's place. Not that damn hard.

I'm almost certainly right about the scum vig. I was wrong about the owner of the power, sure, yeah, but almost certainly not the logic. Nacho DID start pushing me IMMEDIATELY after I had that theory.

Nacho killing Pie makes perfect sense. He saw the interactions between me and Pie and I think he'd want to take away the player that I'm using as my touchstone/stake-in-the-ground/rock-solid-read as it fits in with a scum-Nacho style of thinking. Nacho's priority would be to take out Titan, Stalin, and me in that order based on NY169 but if he saw the emerging paranoia in the neighborhood, he might want to delay those kills so that a distraction can form and he would still vividly remember Pie leading the town to victory in Empire's large and would know that he can keep himself engaged and not become even as the game drags on. The most likely kill N1 was probably Titan with Mac dying as a result because Mac had Titan as one of his strongest townreads.

Now you're talking!

I'm also befuddled that he thinks level of involvement in this game should be indicative of town-Mastin given her day 1 involvement in L4D.

Given that I explicitly described the intent behind my scumplay that game and exactly why I did what I did and how there was a plan and it was executed perfectly?

...Yeah. AP would say it as either alignment, because it's true. My play here was NOTHING. Absolutely NOTHING. Like L4D, because in L4D, I was trolling on D1 and playing scummily on purpose, not only for fun but also for my plan. This game, I putt actual :effort: in; that game, I was just posting. How the fuck can you even compare the two?