Tales of You (Endgame)

[AngryPidgeon]

mastin was scummy in house party and then she pushed the coug wagon through because he couldn't produce the right flavor quick enough. i don't even come close to regretting that and i don't understand why that game should automatically prevent me from pushing her in this game.

Im not saying its impossible for you to have a legitimate scumread on mastin, its just the certainty that was attached to it.

You guys basically did fuckall except posture on mastin and apparently post some paranoia in the neighbor QT. Did you not once wonder "huh I wonder if this is town-mastin and we're wrong" cause you tunnelfucked her pretty hard Yesterday and didnt seem to have a singular iota of doubt about it.

[Titan]

Why was he, at the same time that he was so damn convinced that Mastin was scum that he wouldn't do anything else, also saying I was setting him up in the case of a town flip. Like I never said anything of the sort.

Hm. Im trying to remember, but I think he did something similar in my mini theme. But its possible Im just remembering BRO's part in that, but I think Desperado also tunneled on the mastin mislynch there as town. What worries me is that these guys were so gung-ho about it again despite just having mislynched mastin horribly in a very similar fashion.

Wait? He or they were posturing about being set up for causing a mislynch while they were convinced they were lynching scum in another game?

[Just Sheep Us]

i did, bro and pie and f-16 didn't so i chose not to pursue it.

[PeregrineV]

@Breakfast-

As noted above, 172 just finished.

Check out this ISO of one of your heads.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=41158

Now, using as many words as possible, explain how you were unable to secure any reads day1 and day2.

Nope. Not going to indulge you. Replacing into a 120 page game is nothing like living a game from the start of day 1. My objectivity as a replacement is one of the strong points in my replacement games. I lack that in from-the-start games.

The way I catch up varies from replace-in to replace-in, and as I said at the end of that game I had initially planned to do a Magua style not-reading-shit replacement, but the compulsive vig role precluded that.

But, the process of catching up included you looking at posts and reaching conclusions based on those posts.
You were able to (fairly effectively and in a short period of time) determine 4 players probable alignments.
I find it hard to believe that you can't do that because you started playing in this game instead of replacing in.

[Titan]

I just don't understand how you can't see how Mastin was going to be the lynch. There was going to be nothing but two more days worth of the same thing. Noone was changing their minds.

Stalin was sort of waffling about it, tbf. The main thing I don't get is that CF himself was pushing the mastin lynch but now posting things about it being a setup.

Well I mean it doesn't matter that a couple of us were waffling, it's still the lynch that was going to happen.

Quite frankly when you unvoted Mastin at the end of the day, it looked suspicious to me after Mastin flipped town. I thought you were trying to demonstrate fake uncertainty on the lynch you'd been pushing the entire time and that you decided that actually the noise would be more beneficial to have around than lose.

He voted mastin at some point?

[/quote]

No I misremembered or was hallucinating. I swear I can remember clear as day seeing him unvote mastin when he suggested you be lynched but it doesn't exist.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

we are also aware of which situations our role will fail in

We aren't aware.

But, the language of our result stuck out with the emphasis on it failing. Also, RG used a word in his post 5123 that echoes something about our PM about our role failing. Not our action. Our role.

[AngryPidgeon]

I'm really really trying to see what you see in des/bro but all I see from there is manipulation.

@Tammy: Oh, oops. I meant to quote this part of your post? Not sure how that got messed up. I was talking about BROSeidon/Desperado. They were both town and they both tunneled on mastin-town very recently in my mini theme (BRO more than desp I think but Im pretty sure both did) and it was just incredibly similar looking back. Im weirded out that neither of these 2 had any doubt about this after misreading mastin so bad recently.

[PeregrineV]

@Angry-

You just finished 172 as scum with ThAd the scum ascetic. Why are you acting so clueless yesterday when Kagura/Nacho said that "no result" matches his information?
And now that game is over, have you mentioned it all as the possible reason for your result? Or at all?

Lolz. I actually was worried about Nacho being an ascetic/commuter of some sort and said as much at some point on Day 2. I could fish up the quote, but I really dont want to dive through the depths of my ISO right now. I had a working theory that I was allowed to investigate Nacho cause scum no my role would bounce off of him or something. Of course its possible that I really was blocked. Apparently there are potentially multiple roleblocks going around and nobody else was claiming to have had their role behave oddly yesterday so its totally possible I was just blocked and Nacho is a red herring. I tried to clarify with him at the end of Yesterday about some of the shit Bork said, but Nacho was being evasive. Made me wonder if he was actually a hider or something (oops did I just say that) but fuck if I know. I could waffle about spec about my role forever so Id rather just read him off play which Im still digesting. His and PA's push on mastin felt more genuine than some of the others to me.

You and I was explicitly told that my role failed.

Hmph. Ok. This result (and only this result) is consistent with my worldview.

Why did you start out with a fake report on CF?

-b

Yeah, because as a town hider he really needs to fear being killed. And I think he'd have 2 confirmed town by now.

I'll help you with your Nacho digestion. What posts scream town-Nacho and which scream scum-Nacho to you?

[AngryPidgeon]

we are also aware of which situations our role will fail in

We aren't aware.

But, the language of our result stuck out with the emphasis on it failing. Also, RG used a word in his post 5123 that echoes something about our PM about our role failing. Not our action. Our role.

So you think that your action failed because your target was not of the correct flavor?

[Breakfast With Sandy]

@Breakfast-

As noted above, 172 just finished.

Check out this ISO of one of your heads.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=41158

Now, using as many words as possible, explain how you were unable to secure any reads day1 and day2.

Nope. Not going to indulge you. Replacing into a 120 page game is nothing like living a game from the start of day 1. My objectivity as a replacement is one of the strong points in my replacement games. I lack that in from-the-start games.

The way I catch up varies from replace-in to replace-in, and as I said at the end of that game I had initially planned to do a Magua style not-reading-shit replacement, but the compulsive vig role precluded that.

But, the process of catching up included you looking at posts and reaching conclusions based on those posts.
You were able to (fairly effectively and in a short period of time) determine 4 players probable alignments.
I find it hard to believe that you can't do that because you started playing in this game instead of replacing in.

It was based on analysis of three scum ISOs and their reads, votes, and stances. That's a tremendous amount of useful data.

You can look at my recent replacement vs from start games and see how they differ. You played in several of them. L4D, boardgame are 2 examples that are pretty stark comparisons to ny 172. In the boardgame I didn't really start walling until I had similar data about flipped scum to consider.

[PeregrineV]

mastin was scummy in house party and then she pushed the coug wagon through because he couldn't produce the right flavor quick enough. i don't even come close to regretting that and i don't understand why that game should automatically prevent me from pushing her in this game.

Im not saying its impossible for you to have a legitimate scumread on mastin, its just the certainty that was attached to it.

You guys basically did fuckall except posture on mastin and apparently post some paranoia in the neighbor QT. Did you not once wonder "huh I wonder if this is town-mastin and we're wrong" cause you tunnelfucked her pretty hard Yesterday and didnt seem to have a singular iota of doubt about it.

We all had doubt. But they're gone now. RIP, MastinSSK.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

we are also aware of which situations our role will fail in

We aren't aware.

But, the language of our result stuck out with the emphasis on it failing. Also, RG used a word in his post 5123 that echoes something about our PM about our role failing. Not our action. Our role.

So you think that your action failed because your target was not of the correct flavor?

I dunno. Maybe?

I'm not sure how hard I want to dig at this toDay. Beli is ok with outing our flavor info. I want to hold off for now.

[PeregrineV]

@Breakfast-

As noted above, 172 just finished.

Check out this ISO of one of your heads.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=41158

Now, using as many words as possible, explain how you were unable to secure any reads day1 and day2.

Nope. Not going to indulge you. Replacing into a 120 page game is nothing like living a game from the start of day 1. My objectivity as a replacement is one of the strong points in my replacement games. I lack that in from-the-start games.

The way I catch up varies from replace-in to replace-in, and as I said at the end of that game I had initially planned to do a Magua style not-reading-shit replacement, but the compulsive vig role precluded that.

But, the process of catching up included you looking at posts and reaching conclusions based on those posts.
You were able to (fairly effectively and in a short period of time) determine 4 players probable alignments.
I find it hard to believe that you can't do that because you started playing in this game instead of replacing in.

It was based on analysis of three scum ISOs and their reads, votes, and stances. That's a tremendous amount of useful data.

You can look at my recent replacement vs from start games and see how they differ. You played in several of them. L4D, boardgame are 2 examples that are pretty stark comparisons to ny 172. In the boardgame I didn't really start walling until I had similar data about flipped scum to consider.

That I also get, but I'd expect you to have something (anything) more solid than these:
1872-3401-4174-4950

pedit- Hold off unless relevant

[AngryPidgeon]

I'll help you with your Nacho digestion. What posts scream town-Nacho and which scream scum-Nacho to you?

My opinion of the slot has generally gone up since Bork replaced out of it.

I can fish up some quotes later, but off the top of my head thing's that felt town from Nacho.
The mastin push. I don't see why he as scum would stick his neck out there to shove that cart forward when it was already headed in the direction steadily, based off the timing of his pressure and flip-flop on mastin. I felt his posting at mastin was rather genuine; it just felt like Nacho was 100% convinced in what he was seeing. The drunk posting near the end of Day 2 also felt uninhibited and town to me although Id have to pull up quotes to dive into that more.

The being divey about their role is weird to me, but Im not going to just demand that they full claim I guess, so I'll hope that that resolves itself at some point. I disliked Bork's reaction to pressure. It felt haughty like he was tryingto shake me off by being overly-confident and his whole defense wsa like "look how town I am, everyone else thinks Im town!!". I dont think he actually said that, but it came off that way to me at the time and it felt like he was just coasting without doing much. Annnd Im still trying to decide what I think about Tammy v CF with Nacho sidelining on that aggresively. I thought him trying to get CF into the neighborhood was probably town thinking I guess, but I could see him being scum if CF is potentially. probably. maybe. definitely.

[Titan]

I need a nap, I'll respond to the things I said I'd respond to from last night or anything I missed later.

[AngryPidgeon]

Yeah, because as a town hider he really needs to fear being killed. And I think he'd have 2 confirmed town by now.

They also said something to RBD out the gates about it mattering if their claim was real. I was rereading at some point and that stuck out to me . Made me wonder if they were a hider and were concerned about them hiding behind people who got gladiated or something which would be unproductive for obvious reasons.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

@Breakfast-

As noted above, 172 just finished.

Check out this ISO of one of your heads.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=41158

Now, using as many words as possible, explain how you were unable to secure any reads day1 and day2.

Nope. Not going to indulge you. Replacing into a 120 page game is nothing like living a game from the start of day 1. My objectivity as a replacement is one of the strong points in my replacement games. I lack that in from-the-start games.

The way I catch up varies from replace-in to replace-in, and as I said at the end of that game I had initially planned to do a Magua style not-reading-shit replacement, but the compulsive vig role precluded that.

But, the process of catching up included you looking at posts and reaching conclusions based on those posts.
You were able to (fairly effectively and in a short period of time) determine 4 players probable alignments.
I find it hard to believe that you can't do that because you started playing in this game instead of replacing in.

It was based on analysis of three scum ISOs and their reads, votes, and stances. That's a tremendous amount of useful data.

You can look at my recent replacement vs from start games and see how they differ. You played in several of them. L4D, boardgame are 2 examples that are pretty stark comparisons to ny 172. In the boardgame I didn't really start walling until I had similar data about flipped scum to consider.

That I also get, but I'd expect you to have something (anything) more solid than these:
1872-3401-4174-4950

pedit- Hold off unless relevant

I don't think you have any concept of how disconcerting it was to be on such a different page about Rancid (and on day 1 about Mastin as well) from several players I was townreading. I feel a little better now because my concept of the game state has been somewhat validated by Rancid's flip. I'm not sure yet what to do with that data. I mentioned doing some VCA soon, but I'm hoping someone else will get to it first because I find it tedious and I usually wind up missing the forest for the trees anyway.

Meanwhile, I'm trying to explore some other avenues that night results (and lack thereof) suggest.

Why did you vote Magenta?

[PeregrineV]

I'll help you with your Nacho digestion. What posts scream town-Nacho and which scream scum-Nacho to you?

My opinion of the slot has generally gone up since Bork replaced out of it.

I thought bork towned up the slot, big time.

I can fish up some quotes later, but off the top of my head thing's that felt town from Nacho.
The mastin push. I don't see why he as scum would stick his neck out there to shove that cart forward when it was already headed in the direction steadily, based off the timing of his pressure and flip-flop on mastin. I felt his posting at mastin was rather genuine; it just felt like Nacho was 100% convinced in what he was seeing. The drunk posting near the end of Day 2 also felt uninhibited and town to me although Id have to pull up quotes to dive into that more.

Everyone was voting Mastin or was willing to lynch her. She was spamming up the thread.

Votecount 2-21 (Final)

With 14 players alive, it will take 8 votes to lynch or nolynch.

MastinSSK

(8):

Just Sheep Us

,

PeregrineV, Yggdra Union

, CupcakePanda, Penguin_Alien, Red Gyarados, The Fox and the Hound, Titan
AngryPidgeon (1):

MastinSSK

Not Voting (5): Nachomamma8,

Carbon Fiber

, Breakfast With Stalin, AngryPidgeon, magenta_thegreat

Blue is pretty much town to me, but since there are 4 scum left, where are you contending they are voting?

The being divey about their role is weird to me, but Im not going to just demand that they full claim I guess, so I'll hope that that resolves itself at some point. I disliked Bork's reaction to pressure. It felt haughty like he was tryingto shake me off by being overly-confident and his whole defense wsa like "look how town I am, everyone else thinks Im town!!". I dont think he actually said that, but it came off that way to me at the time and it felt like he was just coasting without doing much. Annnd Im still trying to decide what I think about Tammy v CF with Nacho sidelining on that aggresively. I thought him trying to get CF into the neighborhood was probably town thinking I guess, but I could see him being scum if CF is potentially. probably. maybe. definitely.

It seems scum Kagura/nacho would have said "You must have been roleblocked" or totally ignored your claim of no result. Unless they are scum with you, their best scum-move would have been to say nothing and leave the explanation to you. Why would Kagura-scum/AP-town say 3544?

[PeregrineV]

@Breakfast-

As noted above, 172 just finished.

Check out this ISO of one of your heads.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=41158

Now, using as many words as possible, explain how you were unable to secure any reads day1 and day2.

Nope. Not going to indulge you. Replacing into a 120 page game is nothing like living a game from the start of day 1. My objectivity as a replacement is one of the strong points in my replacement games. I lack that in from-the-start games.

The way I catch up varies from replace-in to replace-in, and as I said at the end of that game I had initially planned to do a Magua style not-reading-shit replacement, but the compulsive vig role precluded that.

But, the process of catching up included you looking at posts and reaching conclusions based on those posts.
You were able to (fairly effectively and in a short period of time) determine 4 players probable alignments.
I find it hard to believe that you can't do that because you started playing in this game instead of replacing in.

It was based on analysis of three scum ISOs and their reads, votes, and stances. That's a tremendous amount of useful data.

You can look at my recent replacement vs from start games and see how they differ. You played in several of them. L4D, boardgame are 2 examples that are pretty stark comparisons to ny 172. In the boardgame I didn't really start walling until I had similar data about flipped scum to consider.

That I also get, but I'd expect you to have something (anything) more solid than these:
1872-3401-4174-4950

pedit- Hold off unless relevant

I don't think you have any concept of how disconcerting it was to be on such a different page about Rancid (and on day 1 about Mastin as well) from several players I was townreading. I feel a little better now because my concept of the game state has been somewhat validated by Rancid's flip. I'm not sure yet what to do with that data. I mentioned doing some VCA soon, but I'm hoping someone else will get to it first because I find it tedious and I usually wind up missing the forest for the trees anyway.

Meanwhile, I'm trying to explore some other avenues that night results (and lack thereof) suggest.

Why did you vote Magenta?

Rancid flipped Battleseeker. I assume that aside from the miller part (and counterclaiming Carbon) that his other posting was correct/not lies. Which means two town-gladiator type roles, or one town (Rancid) and one scum (Orcinus).
Magenta has not towned it up for me, Orcinus was marginal, and roles seem to indicate that he is likely scum.

[AngryPidgeon]

MastinSSK

(8):

Just Sheep Us

,

PeregrineV, Yggdra Union

, CupcakePanda, Penguin_Alien, Red Gyarados, The Fox and the Hound, Titan
AngryPidgeon (1):

MastinSSK

Not Voting (5): Nachomamma8,

Carbon Fiber

, Breakfast With Stalin, AngryPidgeon, magenta_thegreat

Blue is pretty much town to me, but since there are 4 scum left, where are you contending they are voting?[/quote]
For serious? In this VC? Im not sure what you expect me to say. Cupcake, RedGary would be my picks for plausible scum on the wagon. Maybe Foxhound/JSU.
Off the wagon bets shot is magenta/Cf and maybe Nacho.

[Titan]

I'm still not going to answer your questions until you demonstrate reading comprehension and ask something that makes sense, but if you're town you shouldn't VIG me.

<_<

>_>

>_>

Just sayin.

[AngryPidgeon]

You and I was explicitly told that my role failed.

Hmph. Ok. This result (and only this result) is consistent with my worldview.

Why did you start out with a fake report on CF?

-b

@PV: Why the hell wouldn't they? Maybe they actually just roleblocked me and plan to claim later that they thought I was scum and likely going to make the scum kill after I flip.

Maybe they really are a Mafia Ascetic and plan to just claim that at some point.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Rancid flipped Battleseeker. I assume that aside from the miller part (and counterclaiming Carbon) that his other posting was correct/not lies. Which means two town-gladiator type roles, or one town (Rancid) and one scum (Orcinus).
Magenta has not towned it up for me, Orcinus was marginal, and roles seem to indicate that he is likely scum.

Have you missed all the talk about Vesperia and the fact that town had TWO roles with rolecop abilities in a mini?

Whatever part the role duplication plays in your read, you should probably discount that.

Also, have you so quickly forgotten the NORMAL game you've been referring to, with its TWO town joats, and two town roles with night killing abilities?

If your marginal read on Orcinus is your strongest scum read in the game then go on with you, I guess.

But you absolutely have no basis for dissing my pile of null/null-scum at the bottom of my reads lists.

[AngryPidgeon]

Tales of Hearts:

AP, RG

???: Panda PV, Stalin, orcinus

You guys probably claimed some of this before, but what is everyone's game?

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Tales of Rebirth