Tales of You (Endgame)

[AngryPidgeon]

maybe JSU is also scum just bussing

Errr. Going after Panda-town.

[Titan]

maybe JSU is also scum just bussing

Errr. Going after Panda-town.

Actually I thought of both scenarios!

[Breakfast With Sandy]

The only way I can see Katsuki being town is if the scumteam is RG is lying about being blocked and maybe JSU is also scum just bussing, i really dont know.

Or if he doesn't understand how his role works.

[AngryPidgeon]

AP, there are plenty of days left and there is no need to rush. I just want us to think things through and think about all the possibilities before we proceed with a lynch.

Mastin was very certain you were scum and it is part of my hesitation in believing you. You both know each other really well and I doubt Mastin would misread you in that way - scumreading you as soon as you entered the game and saying that you were scum right up until the lynch with you as a top suspect.

I am getting paranoid as hell about Nacho as well. Just jumping in and voting Cupcake doesn't feel right.

> Cupcake is lying about my role. The longer we wait, the more useless shit we discuss. The only relevant information is that Panda is claiming a result on me that is confirmed false. JSU is claiming that I am innocent AND is confirming my action. Panda is lying. The more we delay, the more people try to outguess the setup wtih crap logic and the more bogged down and unmotivated we all get and the higher the chance that Panda is able to skate after entering a 1v1 with me.

> Well I can't really argue that. Except that mastin had zero posted reason for thinking I was scum and thats probably because she was playing terribly this game.

> Why not? Did you seriously not read what happened? Cupcake claimed a guilty on me. Cupcake got immediately counterclaimed by YOUR STRONG TOWNREAD JSU. This is not rocket science, why is getting people to actually realize the obvious in front of them like pulling teeth.

[Titan]

I remember Bro saying that if you and he are on a team together that you're practically unstoppable. It's no secret I've been suspicious of both of you on and off during this game. Bro's entrance into today did seem like he got a result on you; he laid it rather low and it was kinda subtle but you picked up on that maybe they were buddying you. I can see you guys planning something like that but I'm not so sure how much I buy it. However, in a recent game scum "enhanced" their role by saying that it also had a cop element, so that part makes me wary. However, if they're scum enhancing their role then you're still town and telling the truth.

Occam's razor. Do you honestly think BROseidon-scum decided off the cuff INSTANTANEOUSLY to go for broke and defend me from a guilty claim?

So panda gets lynched today and flips town. And BROseidon and I just got ourselves chain-lynched because he couldnt keep it in his pants?

I dont get how you think that is remotely possible.

Dont get me wrong, BRO could be a Mafia Tracker or something like that. Not saying its likely or probable and dont particuarly care to figure it out right now. But Katsuki is scum.

The only way I can see Katsuki being town is if the scumteam is RG is lying about being blocked and maybe JSU is also scum just bussing, i really dont know.

Hey, I said I don't know how much I buy that scenario where the two of you are partnered, but you can't fault me for thinking through every possibility.

I've already said that cupcake is most likely going to be the lynch today, but I'm not going to join it or help until I think it makes the most sense.

I get you think that everyone should just wagon ho, but do you remember Anything Goes? Remember how tentative you approached BBMolla and our situation? So, give me some of the same understanding you probably wanted people to have for you there when things just didn't add up.

[Titan]

The only way I can see Katsuki being town is if the scumteam is RG is lying about being blocked and maybe JSU is also scum just bussing, i really dont know.

Or if he doesn't understand how his role works.

Hmm...I need to think about this but I've got to go back to work.

The way I see it a delayer is the opposite of a motivator. I was a motivator once and the people I targeted didn't get motivated until the following night. They didn't even find out that they had been motivated until the next night phase. But, I've also seen motivators that resolve instantly.

[The Fox and the Hound]

YOUR ACTION EITHER FAILED OR YOU'RE LYING BUDDY #1

CHELSEA TORN
TOWN DELAYER

N1 MASTIN
N2 AP

I feel like with JSU coming to the rescue the automatic response here would be to throw in more JSU suspicion (unlikely) or possibly start backing off. Also ffery, this might be the rolename you were looking for? Dunno who the hell that is, but it sounds like a name to me.

we are van grants, instructor master, even night tracker. ap visited stalin last night.

out ability will fail against replicas.

Wait, what? If your ability fails against replicas, you are also a cop. So, you are a cop and if your target is town, you can track them as well?

yeah

panda why are you ignoring me also saying you are lying?

L2READ

AND YOU CAN SHUT YOUR MOUTH YOU SMUG SCUMFUCK
YOURE NOT SAVING YOUR BUDDY TODAY AND YOU'RE NOT GETTING ME LYNCHED

This overconfidence sounds pretty fake. You have to know you look bad here. I almost want to say scum theater, but that would require all three of them to be scum, which I don't believe.

Alright, well, Stalin and I both claimed to have had interference with our roles. Stalin claimed to not have any limitations associated with hers, and mine doesn't have any either. I assume my role just fails in the same situations other non-modified roles would.

So unless there's a magic third interfering role, I think Panda is either on the losing end of this or we have two scum in JSU/AP.

If you think I would've aborted LURK2VICTORY as scum and risk my head fakeclaiming as scum then you're smoking some serious stuff

???
That doesn't seem outlandish in the slightest.

Great.

Vote: Orcinus

This vote is a scumclaim.

We are lynching either me or Panda today.

Yeaaaaaah, I don't know why we would consider doing anything other than those two things at this point.

Well, sorry for being paranoid about the guy who gloats about getting cop confirmed double self-targeting docs mislynched?

I am trying to figure shit out.

Ok well the only way I can be scum is if BRO-desp is scum, so I'll let you resolve that cognitive dissonance then.

You could be scum that actually visited Stalin with BRO-Desp tracking you there. BRO-Desp's role is OP. There could potentially be some kind of GF-type role to counter it with yours being it. Like I appear guilty to all cops, perhaps scum have a role that appears innocent to all cops? As for Katsuki's actions on you, perhaps you or one of your buddies is immune from being delayed or scum have a counterpart to Tammy's rolestopper role and used it on before game start? That's a lot of speculation but I can't see a clear scum motive for Katsuki to up and claim "AP didn't visit Stalin" for no reason at all either. He's a good scum player as you know from Anything Goes. He'd expect to survive and win the game.

This requires way too much jumping through hoops and twisting to find a conclusion you're trying to find, I'm surprised you didn't realize it as you were doing it. I kinda think you just don't want to be wrong again and are trying too hard to convince yourself.

SO THEN EITHER YOU GUYS ARE BOTH FAKECLAIMING, OR SOMETHING INTERFERRED WITH MY ACTION

DO YOU THINK IT PLAUSABLE THAT ANYONE WOULD TARGET ME OF ALL PEOPLE?!

I THINK NOT

I targeted you.

My message back is that my role explicitly failed.

I suppose there are roles that could explain both of these things... but I don't particularly suspect them of being in the setup...

AP IS OBV FUCKING SCUM

AND YOU GUYS EXPECT HIM TO GO DOWN QUIETLY?

There is an innocent result claimed on me. Yet you still want to lynch me first over the person claiming Im confirmed town.

Get wrecked scum.

While this is true, do you remember town!mollie in the Reckoning wanting to lynch UT even though I claimed an innocent on him?

?

He's saying he's scum for the thought process, but a very town mollie wanted to lynch UT after I weak neighbored him while at the same time thinking I was probably town. It's not unheard of that people make weird moves.

And in this situation, he has a role that says AP didn't do something he said he did. It's just not as clear cut here.

Do you really want to see the fallout if all three involved in this are town? I sure as hell don't. And I'm having trouble wrapping my head around this play coming from katsuki!scum right now.

On the other hand, mollie is nuts.

Because he was bored?

Because he got up this morning and he poured himself some Apple Jacks to eat but there was no milk in the refridgerator so he thought "fuck it Im claiming a guilty on AP"

Maybe Ive been unkillable at night cause Im getting protected?

I dont know. Occams razor. Consult Occams razor.

You can earn my vote for Cupcake by linking 3 other players to him.

:S
This is still and will always be just a bad way to play mafia.

Explain, please?

I thought it unlikely for there to be a bulletproof, a bodyguard, and a watcher all in the same game. That's a lot of restrictions on scum nightkill choices.

Do I really need to say "lolcabdsetup"?

5429

Are you for real right now?

Which part seems unreal?

You mentioned something about not having long, I thought maybe it was more brief/emptyfeeling because of a lack of time and I figured you'd talk more about it later, though that didn't really happen.

Yes. Day just started, but I had to leave work.

Wasn't discussed much overnight or today at all, but I wanted no janitor spec considering I knew the source of the janitoring.

But, we can talk about it. What do you want to hear more about?

Why did you claim, and why with the timing you did?

[Breakfast With Sandy]

The only way I can see Katsuki being town is if the scumteam is RG is lying about being blocked and maybe JSU is also scum just bussing, i really dont know.

Or if he doesn't understand how his role works.

Hmm...I need to think about this but I've got to go back to work.

The way I see it a delayer is the opposite of a motivator. I was a motivator once and the people I targeted didn't get motivated until the following night. They didn't even find out that they had been motivated until the next night phase. But, I've also seen motivators that resolve instantly.

It bugs me that I was the first to mention this possibility given I was at the fucking grocery store when the counterclaim/counter-counterclaim went down.

[PeregrineV]

Dang, I was hoping for a scumflip.

I am Yuri Lowell, Town Lone Wolf (modified vig), Tales of Vesperia (you can guess the modification).

I didn't shoot last night because I wanted to see Rancid's flip.

I shot him night1 because he was total scum (even if he flipped green).

Going home, but want that out there for discussion. I'll try to check in tonight.

How did you know Rancid was going to flip?

That's my modification. Target flips the next night (apparently at the end of the night, not the beginning). Janitored flip does not change the actual flip in terms of numbers, etc.

[The Fox and the Hound]

I actually caught up!

VOTE: CupcakePanda! Looks like we shouldn't have listened to that meta malarkey, DV and I have been passively saying this all game.

[CarbonFiber]

AP, there are plenty of days left and there is no need to rush. I just want us to think things through and think about all the possibilities before we proceed with a lynch.

Mastin was very certain you were scum and it is part of my hesitation in believing you. You both know each other really well and I doubt Mastin would misread you in that way - scumreading you as soon as you entered the game and saying that you were scum right up until the lynch with you as a top suspect.

I am getting paranoid as hell about Nacho as well. Just jumping in and voting Cupcake doesn't feel right.

> Cupcake is lying about my role. The longer we wait, the more useless shit we discuss. The only relevant information is that Panda is claiming a result on me that is confirmed false. JSU is claiming that I am innocent AND is confirming my action. Panda is lying. The more we delay, the more people try to outguess the setup wtih crap logic and the more bogged down and unmotivated we all get and the higher the chance that Panda is able to skate after entering a 1v1 with me.

> Well I can't really argue that. Except that mastin had zero posted reason for thinking I was scum and thats probably because she was playing terribly this game.

> Why not? Did you seriously not read what happened? Cupcake claimed a guilty on me. Cupcake got immediately counterclaimed by YOUR STRONG TOWNREAD JSU. This is not rocket science, why is getting people to actually realize the obvious in front of them like pulling teeth.

I am not asking you to wait till deadline, just until I can process everything that happened and considered all the possibilities. If you are town, it is probably clear to you that Kats is scum but it isn't clear to me. I don't get why you don't understand the hesitation though when you strongarmed that lynch on Baby Spice in that Large Normal. You just made more sense overall and the lynch somehow happened.

I am going to consider all the possibilities and I am not ruling out bussing either although it seems unlikely.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

AP is your character considered a child?

[CarbonFiber]

This requires way too much jumping through hoops and twisting to find a conclusion you're trying to find, I'm surprised you didn't realize it as you were doing it. I kinda think you just don't want to be wrong again and are trying too hard to convince yourself.

I just admitted that it was a lot of speculation. What surprised you?

[The Fox and the Hound]

This requires way too much jumping through hoops and twisting to find a conclusion you're trying to find, I'm surprised you didn't realize it as you were doing it. I kinda think you just don't want to be wrong again and are trying too hard to convince yourself.

I just admitted that it was a lot of speculation. What surprised you?

And yet you still seem to think it the most likely possibility? Or am I misreading?

[Just Sheep Us]

You guys could be a team. You guys could both be town. Maybe this is katsuki scum fake claiming but it goes against what I've experienced with katsuki as scum. I suppose he could be making an egregious misstep by thinking a player was more lynchable than he is, but I'm not certain I buy that.

People doing things horribly out of character happens?

In AoT, I fakeclaimed a vig shot as scum, but then in response to Cabd in Wicked post-game I wanted to say "I'd never fakeclaim a confirmable role as scum," because it's something that's very out of character for my play.

[The Fox and the Hound]

I am going to consider all the possibilities and I am not ruling out bussing either although it seems unlikely.

Is there a way 2 but not 3 of them can be scum? I kinda want to feel like that's a possibility but I don't see how it would work.

[Just Sheep Us]

Im just ridiculously startled that Katsuki is claiming that I lied about my role (Im not) and when someone steps in and confirms my action and my alignment in the same swoop, everyone starts circlejerking instead of wagoning Panda.

Really guys? I dont even have words to describe the level of bad townplay in this game has reached.

This is how I feel.

VOTE: Cupcake

[CarbonFiber]

This requires way too much jumping through hoops and twisting to find a conclusion you're trying to find, I'm surprised you didn't realize it as you were doing it. I kinda think you just don't want to be wrong again and are trying too hard to convince yourself.

I just admitted that it was a lot of speculation. What surprised you?

And yet you still seem to think it the most likely possibility? Or am I misreading?

No, I am not sure what to make of this whole thing right now.

I also don't understand the point of a lot of your recent posts. I especially don't like the "if you are town and I still think you are" which just felt off.

[Titan]

The only way I can see Katsuki being town is if the scumteam is RG is lying about being blocked and maybe JSU is also scum just bussing, i really dont know.

Or if he doesn't understand how his role works.

Hmm...I need to think about this but I've got to go back to work.

The way I see it a delayer is the opposite of a motivator. I was a motivator once and the people I targeted didn't get motivated until the following night. They didn't even find out that they had been motivated until the next night phase. But, I've also seen motivators that resolve instantly.

It bugs me that I was the first to mention this possibility given I was at the fucking grocery store when the counterclaim/counter-counterclaim went down.

Oh did you already say that? You saying that he might not understand how his role worked reminded me of the time I was a motivator. I remember asking in thread the next day if my target got something or the other and he didn't know what I was talking about. I figured I'd been blocked at first until I clarified my role, and my crumb was picked up on after I'd been nightkilled and used to prove that scum made an action that made him look town. I was not happy with myself.

[AngryPidgeon]

Actually I thought of both scenarios!

I realize Im being less than coherent. Its just frustrating to be under so much fire all game and finally get a shot of clarity through the mist just to watch people waffle and engage in mental acrobactics because they are either scum or just flatout delusional about the gamestate. Coupled with the absurd reasons for townreading a chronic lurker who now has 2 people confirming that they are lying.

I don't know. I can promise to rethink this with Panda town in mind, but here is the thing. Im sure I can cough up some explanation for Katsuki being town and Katsuki genuinely thinking I am lying, but its going to come down to how likely I think that is over the default hypothesis being that Katsuki is lying about their result on me.

So I need to convince myself that
1) Katsuki was roleblocked
2) That means that there are either 3 roleblocks last night or Rg is lying

No matter how I slice that, I just dont see it being more likely than Katsuki just being scum. Maybe Katsuki was actually roleblocked scum who was trying to delay my investigate

--

I tend to doubt that JSU-scum/PAnda-town is the case. The JSU claim came out very fast. I dont think scum would respond that fast to a claimed guilty. Why not just let Panda/AP resolve itself with a mslynch and the other probably gets mislynched the next Day in that case. No motive to snap claim like that. I -could- see a JSU/Panda team orchestrating this over the night out of fear that JSU would be under fire or Panda might be investigated by someone, idk.

OR JSU is actually just town which I certainly think is the case right now.

[Just Sheep Us]

Occam's razor. Do you honestly think BROseidon-scum decided off the cuff INSTANTANEOUSLY to go for broke and defend me from a guilty claim?

In all fairness, it was Desp, not me, who made the CC. I was unaware of what was going on until I had a break in class.

[PeregrineV]

Why did you claim, and why with the timing you did?

So all of the speculation of the Rancid flip/kill would cease, since it's not relevant to catching scum.

So people calling my scum can fix their reads.

So I could get opinions about targets since I'm 0-2 this game alone.

Because it's fully 8:4, so PoE is more viable.

Etc.

[The Fox and the Hound]

This requires way too much jumping through hoops and twisting to find a conclusion you're trying to find, I'm surprised you didn't realize it as you were doing it. I kinda think you just don't want to be wrong again and are trying too hard to convince yourself.

I just admitted that it was a lot of speculation. What surprised you?

And yet you still seem to think it the most likely possibility? Or am I misreading?

No, I am not sure what to make of this whole thing right now.

I also don't understand the point of a lot of your recent posts. I especially don't like the "if you are town and I still think you are" which just felt off.

Mmk.

I don't necessarily always have a point when I post, that's just how I do catchups. I felt the need to throw that bit in because I felt like it sounded like I was doubting you a lot over the course of those posts, but I'd really still call it a pretty damn firm townread.

[Just Sheep Us]

I get you think that everyone should just wagon ho, but do you remember Anything Goes? Remember how tentative you approached BBMolla and our situation? So, give me some of the same understanding you probably wanted people to have for you there when things just didn't add up.

How did AP and I handle that tentatively? We wanted to lynch the not-cop, and had you as confscum from his claim (which didn't change after he flipped Usurper, although me not considering the Usurper option was a bad technical mistake on my part).

[Breakfast With Sandy]

The only way I can see Katsuki being town is if the scumteam is RG is lying about being blocked and maybe JSU is also scum just bussing, i really dont know.

Or if he doesn't understand how his role works.

Hmm...I need to think about this but I've got to go back to work.

The way I see it a delayer is the opposite of a motivator. I was a motivator once and the people I targeted didn't get motivated until the following night. They didn't even find out that they had been motivated until the next night phase. But, I've also seen motivators that resolve instantly.

It bugs me that I was the first to mention this possibility given I was at the fucking grocery store when the counterclaim/counter-counterclaim went down.

Oh did you already say that? You saying that he might not understand how his role worked reminded me of the time I was a motivator. I remember asking in thread the next day if my target got something or the other and he didn't know what I was talking about. I figured I'd been blocked at first until I clarified my role, and my crumb was picked up on after I'd been nightkilled and used to prove that scum made an action that made him look town. I was not happy with myself.

I didn't say it explicitly because I didn't want to hand katsuki a way to back out of the claim on a silver platter, but what you posted is the scenario I deleted before making that post.

I think in most town games I remove about a quarter of everything I start to post.