Tales of You (Endgame)

[Titan]

But then in order for him to know his night one action should fail, he'd have to be scum with nacho.

He probably is but putting that aside for the sake of hypotheticals: Maybe he also has a visiting role and he figured out that they are a commuter? Or one of his scumbuddies did? It actually makes sense that he would want to give a no result because it lessens the number of "confirmations" that he has to do.

Could he actually be town though? He spent the entire game trying to find new and interesting ways to paint me as scum and ignoring what's incredibly obvious. That, and Mastin was near 100% sure about it.

A godfather rolecop maybe? That still doesn't account for des tracking him there if katsukis telling the truth.

I'm kinda concerned about nacho busing katsuki too, but that's slight and I don't really believe it. I'm equally concerned that nacho is looking reasonable about this and it concerns me that he didn't actually vote mastin yesterday all while proclaiming him SCUM!!!

Pedit: a godfather roleblocker?

[CarbonFiber]

WHY THE FUCK WOULD THERE BE A ROLE THAT'S STRONGER THAN COP ANYWAYS?! THINK ABOUT IT, IT ESSENTIALLY GIVES ALIGNMENT RESULT + ROLE CONFIRMATION OF TOWNIES
Actually the entire claim just seems wack.

While this is true, the way BRO-Desp acted in the neighborhood indicated they have an awesome role for all these reasons:

1) D1, they lurked. Then they voted Rancid and lurked some more. I asked them why and they said it is because they wanted Rancid to gladiate them and didn't want to be active and obvtown so that Rancid chooses someone else. I took this to mean that they had a confirmable or an overall awesome role. This was way back early D1.

2) D2, I asked Desp why he wouldn't just talk about his suspicions in thread and he responded by saying that he is amused at all the ways scum are trying to set them up and doesn't care to be transparent in thread. The way he said it felt like he had no fear at all about being set up and that he could claim and talk his way out of anything.

[Titan]

But then in order for him to know his night one action should fail, he'd have to be scum with nacho.

He probably is but putting that aside for the sake of hypotheticals: Maybe he also has a visiting role and he figured out that they are a commuter? Or one of his scumbuddies did? It actually makes sense that he would want to give a no result because it lessens the number of "confirmations" that he has to do.

Could he actually be town though? He spent the entire game trying to find new and interesting ways to paint me as scum and ignoring what's incredibly obvious. That, and Mastin was near 100% sure about it.

Could ap be town though based on his treatment of you?

Idk. Can des/bro be town while coming up with crap reasons I'm scum? Can pere be town after his interactions with me and the crap reasons I'm scum? IDK

~~~~

AP - how come you didn't include CF in your list of investigations?

[Titan]

WHY THE FUCK WOULD THERE BE A ROLE THAT'S STRONGER THAN COP ANYWAYS?! THINK ABOUT IT, IT ESSENTIALLY GIVES ALIGNMENT RESULT + ROLE CONFIRMATION OF TOWNIES
Actually the entire claim just seems wack.

While this is true, the way BRO-Desp acted in the neighborhood indicated they have an awesome role for all these reasons:

1) D1, they lurked. Then they voted Rancid and lurked some more. I asked them why and they said it is because they wanted Rancid to gladiate them and didn't want to be active and obvtown so that Rancid chooses someone else. I took this to mean that they had a confirmable or an overall awesome role. This was way back early D1.

2) D2, I asked Desp why he wouldn't just talk about his suspicions in thread and he responded by saying that he is amused at all the ways scum are trying to set them up and doesn't care to be transparent in thread. The way he said it felt like he had no fear at all about being set up and that he could claim and talk his way out of anything.

This also can point to a very good fake claim.

Like FFS des is literally using the "I'm gonna act like scum and that's mah special reaction test". Like he's a fucking better player than that. If you act like fucking scum, town are going to think you're fucking scum.

If des is town and literally said that in the neighborhood my respect for his town game has plummeted yo the bottom of the fucking barrel.

It's not even a confirmable role. Gods fuck this game is pissing me off.

[Titan]

Also also des shouldn't be surprised I suspect him with the way he's playing this game. Not after charmed and the reckoning.

Oh I don't need to act town, step off with that bs.

[CarbonFiber]

I am starting to think Penguin is town because this probably wouldn't be the way scum-her would interact with me. I doubt she would continue pushing the issue after I said I had finals etc if she knew it was true unless she wanted revenge for Wicked. BUT, if she thought I was BSing and thought she found a tell for me being OTT as scum, she'd push it for everything it's worth.

[CarbonFiber]

I actually have mild concerns that Katsuki and AP are scum together and this was done with the intent of "confirming" AP should Katsuki flip scum. That would be the best way for him to dodge the lynches after Mastin's dying words. BUT, it doesn't make sense to do that when they could just mislynch someone and get to MYLO and mislynch again for the win so that's pretty much really out there.

I have concerns Nacho and AP are scum together. This is almost entirely a tinfoil hat theory but it is possible they could have enjoyed creating a ton of chaos this game and Nacho asked AP to hydra with him. Then they talked about it in the game thread. It is possible they did it outside the game but it is entirely plausible this is the game they planned to take down Mastin in a grand fashion and talked about how well they worked together etc.

[CarbonFiber]

Mastin's reads aren't extremely helpful besides a few strong ones like AP and Nacho. At some point or the other, he accused nearly the entire living playerlist of being scum. Rancid wanted to lynch The Fox and The Hound as well as Clyton citing Cephrir as a "flow-busser" who would bus if the flow went against his teammates. That makes me wonder about Penguin/Fox team.

I don't think BRO-Desp would kill Pie. He was never going to change his mind about them. He had the air of certainty and I knew regardless of the Mastin/Rancid flips, he wasn't going to change his mind on me or BRO-Desp. Yggdra kill also points against JSU-scum. JSU had much better more "obvious" targets like Titan/Nacho to kill whose kills can be explained purely based on player skill and would get them no backlash. The last thing they'd want to do is kill PieInFreezer.

Nacho killing Pie makes perfect sense. He saw the interactions between me and Pie and I think he'd want to take away the player that I'm using as my touchstone/stake-in-the-ground/rock-solid-read as it fits in with a scum-Nacho style of thinking. Nacho's priority would be to take out Titan, Stalin, and me in that order based on NY169 but if he saw the emerging paranoia in the neighborhood, he might want to delay those kills so that a distraction can form and he would still vividly remember Pie leading the town to victory in Empire's large and would know that he can keep himself engaged and not become even as the game drags on. The most likely kill N1 was probably Titan with Mac dying as a result because Mac had Titan as one of his strongest townreads.

[Titan]

I'm pretty sure I wasn't the night one kill.

I think that Mac would be far far more likely to protect Stalin or Kagura or even RBD over me.

[CarbonFiber]

Supertown

RBD
Titan
Breakfast With Stalin
Kagura

Town

Clyton
RG
orcinus? would like your opinion on this

Fucked if I know

Mastin
AP
Just Sheep Us

Lol, who?

LordBusiness
Cupcake

Scumreads

CarbonFiber
Fox and the Hound

P5
Yukari

This was Mac's last reads list that I am going off of. We know he didn't protect RBD because PV shot him. Titan's next on the list followed by Stalin. Although it's possible that he wanted to protect Stalin because he was working closely with them despite the strength of his read (I'm not even sure if it is seriatim anyways). I still think scum would want to shoot you over Stalin because we were working together D1 while Stalin and I struggled a bit to work smoothly.

[CarbonFiber]

EDIT

Rancid wanted to lynch The Fox and The Hound as well as

AP

citing Cephrir as a "flow-busser" who would bus if the flow went against his teammates. That makes me wonder about

AP

/Fox team.

But they suspected Clyton as well although not associating him into a potential scumteam.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

I'm posting this without Beli's review mostly because I think what this thread really needs is more outrage and exclamations. :/

TownTownTown

Magenta_thegreat - mostly a Beli read at this point. ffery paranoia warning now covers 4 midwestern states
Just Sheep Us - fuck the haters

So far my end of day 1 town as fuck reads have been good so I'm sticking with them. for now.

Town

Titan - the whole dust-up between her and CF gave me scum theater freak-out but some of her questions and lines of thought during claimarama feel more genuine than anything she's posted prior. Beli thinks strong town.

CarbonFiber - same concerns about scum theater. I have my blind spots in mafia but there is something about the way he has yo-yoed on tammy that freaks me out a little. It worried me that on day 2 he didn't claim to have gotten mysterious non-role-related info about AP. I tested that by letting him know who the info came from on day 2, hoping that if we died on N2 someone would look back and find that exchange somehow in the middle of all the day 2 spam. Still, on day 1 I felt like of my town reads he was likely to survive, and that even if he didn't out the info right away, he'd probably share it with his neighborhood and if our n1 results were useful, then town would see them. I don't like to put aside than strong of an early read.

PeregrineV - there's this slight rumble in site meta about how the world needs more scum vig roles, and if anyone would be an early adopter, Cabd would. He's here but I'm not feeling a strong sense of conviction about it. I also really don't like some of his pushes, but I think I've found that he tends to look better in retrospect than in the moment, even when he's really, really wrong. I hate all the BoP cases he's advanced so far this game. And after an intense 8 day NY 172 review I feel like there's a lot less transparency about what thought process pushes his reads in various directions in this game.

Maybe Town, Could be Scum

nachomamma - I am going to wonder until I know his alignment if I should have made that half-assed case for town-Mastin being so self-absorbed that she would be blind to the basis of BRO's late day 1 posting.

The Fox and the Hound - read is stale as fuck and I am not all that happy with where they've placed their attention on day 3, and am very not happy with the lack of attention on day 2.

Red Gyarados - stale read, and less than impressive catch-ups. Not as bad as F&H but close.

AngryPidgeon - two words. White Mage. I'm also befuddled that he thinks level of involvement in this game should be indicative of town-Mastin given her day 1 involvement in L4D. I don't want to lynch him because of the claim but it's a close, close call. And has been since his day 1 claim.

Penguin_Alien - The certainty about the Mastin-read so soon after replacing in worries me some. Tammy's read on both Peng and Clyton persuade me not to push here today, but it also is a close call.

Cupcake Panda - don't like the lead-up to the big reveal. don't like the early reactions, though the last few posts are more in solve-it mode.

[CarbonFiber]

We're still close to the same page except I have Magenta and Cupcake switched around. But we're lynching either Cupcake or AP today and that should help clear things up.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

should have said the list isn't seriatim. should just add that to my sig.

[CarbonFiber]

Ffery, how does your read on AP change after seeing Mastin flip?

On D2, you had Mastin and AP as scumreads. Did you think they were scum together? I am assuming you didn't considering you said your mind was blown when I accused them of being scum together.

Oddly, despite my scumteam guess, I came away with more certainty on AP scum after seeing Mastin and Rancid flip town because it felt like they were town that legitimately had a scumread on AP and wanted him dead pretty badly.

[CarbonFiber]

Also, with regards to where Ceph placed his attention, I felt he gave me most of his attention.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Ffery, how does your read on AP change after seeing Mastin flip?

On D2, you had Mastin and AP as scumreads. Did you think they were scum together? I am assuming you didn't considering you said your mind was blown when I accused them of being scum together.

Oddly, despite my scumteam guess, I came away with more certainty on AP scum after seeing Mastin and Rancid flip town because it felt like they were town that legitimately had a scumread on AP and wanted him dead pretty badly.

I thought I was coming into day 3 with AP at the top of my willing to lynch list.

I felt like his relief at having OMG RESULTS was palplable at the start of the day. I recently played a game where I had this incredibly awesome role and between being JK'd by town trying to protect me, RB'd by scum and basically ordered by the rest of town to target the player who died on n4 I would up with NOTHING from the previous 4 nights to back up my role claim by the time we hit day 5. I think that primed me to read relief in those posts. Whether it's really there or not.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Also, with regards to where Ceph placed his attention, I felt he gave me most of his attention.

And you think that was a good place for Ceph's attention given the game state?

[Katsuki]

Cupcake Panda - don't like the lead-up to the big reveal. don't like the early reactions, though the last few posts are more in solve-it mode.

SORRY IM TOWN TRYING TO WORK OUT WHAT THE FUCK IS UP WITH ALL THESE CLAIMS TODAY

BECAUSE THEY SURE AS FUCK DONT MAKE SENSE ON MY END BARRING AP/DESPBRO SCUM.

[Katsuki]

QUOTE THESE POSTS IN LATER.

[CarbonFiber]

Looking back, he spent quite a bit of time critisizing me in my interactions with Tammy for a conflict that was resolved by the time he came in as well as PV which makes me wonder if he was trying to buddy up to Titan. But then he said he wasn't fully caught up and that some of his posts don't have a point to them which made me wonder if it is just a playstyle issue. I had some of the same problems with reading him in NY169 where I didn't really think he was trying to get anywhere and some of his interactions with me felt incredibly scummy. I sort of let FourTrouble's read influence mine because he was fairly certain on them being town but a lot has happened since then. Also, FT has a tendency to occasionally reciprocate townreads and scumreads and Fox was townreading us at the time he was townreading them. BUT, I also linked Ceph's meta to him citing my inability to read Ceph and he was pretty sure that they were town as well.

Personally, I am focusing more on DV. I liked his Rancid vote at the time partly because I was assuming Rancid was scum. With his townflip, I am wondering how likely it is that scum-DV would make a grandiose statement and cast his vote there and deal with the intense OMGUS from Rancid. I didn't like his recent questions to me that I spoilered back to him as none of them felt thought provoking or something that I can't answer convincingly as scum. They were mostly mechanical and clarification questions that I responded to in 5363.

[The Fox and the Hound]

Also, with regards to where Ceph placed his attention, I felt he gave me most of his attention.

And you think that was a good place for Ceph's attention given the game state?

Y'all attribute a lot more conscious decision making to me than I ever actually exhibit.

Rancid wanted to lynch The Fox and The Hound as well as AP citing Cephrir as a "flow-busser" who would bus if the flow went against his teammates. That makes me wonder about AP/Fox team.

You lost me pretty badly here.

[Titan]

Arthur had DV/Ceph as scum on day one due to his buddying of me. They're someone I wanted to reread as day one when I started to think that rancid and mastin were town, I thought that scum were town reading me. DV usually scum reads me when he's scum or throws up fake paranoia, but they seem a little too sure that I'm town.

Hi, I'm Cephrir, and this figuratively happens to me every single game. If it's any consolation I'm down to a mere ~95% at this point!

I don't understand this sentence.

I don't even know if I buy Falcon as scum. I just don't want to believe as scum he'd basically tell me knowing that I'm town that I've sucked this game, am deluded and can do better. I just don't think he'd go there. I just think that if he was scum, he'd know that when I say I'm lost I really mean that, and that he'd try to manipulate me in another way.

That doesn't seem particularly... anything?

Maybe not to you but it does to me. Falcon doesn't like being scum and though he'll definitely be aggressive when scum, I'm just not sure he'd say some of that. Falcon and I work well together in games and like playing together. And anyone who's played with me more than once knows that I'm rather sensitive at times, and have been especially so lately as I'm really needing a mafia break or to just be in one game or something right now and I've been pretty open about that. Not only that but anyone who has played town games with me knows that I put a lot of thought in games. Everything that I'm thinking doesn't even get posted in the thread but there's a lot that goes on away from the thread in terms of trying to figure the game out. So, a scum him would know all this and I'm just not sure a scum him would say that to me. He might mock me for waffling too much like he did Mina in Wicked, but I'm not even sure he'd do that considering it's so much of my play style and he's familiar with that. He might tell me I'm deluded for reading him as scum. He might even push me due to a perceived weakness he can exploit, but I'm just not sure he goes out of his way to say things to a town me that would cut a bit. Him thinking I'm scum and lashing out at me, I can see that, but him being scum I just think that he'd go about it differently.

[Titan]

Ffery, how does your read on AP change after seeing Mastin flip?

On D2, you had Mastin and AP as scumreads. Did you think they were scum together? I am assuming you didn't considering you said your mind was blown when I accused them of being scum together.

Oddly, despite my scumteam guess, I came away with more certainty on AP scum after seeing Mastin and Rancid flip town because it felt like they were town that legitimately had a scumread on AP and wanted him dead pretty badly.

I thought I was coming into day 3 with AP at the top of my willing to lynch list.

I felt like his relief at having OMG RESULTS was palplable at the start of the day. I recently played a game where I had this incredibly awesome role and between being JK'd by town trying to protect me, RB'd by scum and basically ordered by the rest of town to target the player who died on n4 I would up with NOTHING from the previous 4 nights to back up my role claim by the time we hit day 5. I think that primed me to read relief in those posts. Whether it's really there or not.

We never expected to die over the IC, especially when we were up for a mislynch

[Titan]

Falcon - Did you let the neighborhood know about ffery's track night one and where it came from?