[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[Cheery Dog]

Death and Taxes

v1.0

Vanilla Townie x7

Town Tax Collector x2

Town Homeless x1

Mafia Goon x3

• Tax Collectors target three players. They are informed of how many of their three targets pay taxes, but not exactly who.
• Mafia members and Homeless players do not pay taxes.

I have no idea how well balanced this is, but I like the general idea (

Mastermind

-style investigative roles).

Do Tax Collectors pay taxes?

[Cheery Dog]

I had a secondary idea where, one a player pays taxes once, they no longer pay on subsequent nights. So you can't just keep picking the same 2 people and changing 1 of them. How would that work?

They become night 1 cops (assuming there are still 2 of them there)
Also with 2 listed there, what would happen if they both targeted the same person?

[GreyICE]

Also they're most destructive investigating town.

Imagine someone claims with the result "0 scum in group of 3". That's 4 confirmed townies. With the second cop, 5 confirmed townies.

That's... pretty bad.

[Not_Mafia]

I don't have a name for this

Vanilla Townie x8

Mafia Goon x3

A pretty basic Mountainous/Vanilla variation. The townies are each able to vote for someone to be protected from the scum's nightkill. The top 3 votegetters night 1, top 2 night 2 and the top 1 night 3 onwards become immune to kills that night. This is designed to stop town losing their strongest players. I don't know whether scum should be given votes or a way to tamper with the votes?

[Mr. Flay]

Sounds a lot like my Ebony/Ivory from a few pages ago: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p5788228

[Not_Mafia]

I need to practice my plagiarism skills. To be serious though, I hadn't seen yours and I made the above to attempt to remedy issues that plague games at my homesite; village inactivity/disengagement and actives being killed off. For your set up, I'd say regular mountainous numbers are fine assuming you're looking for a 50% EV, but that's just my guess.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

About the tax collector one.

Give everyone an amount of taxes they pay.
Make the mafia the highest/lowest.

Tax collector only sees the order of the people they take. EG: of ABC, A pays the most taxes, C pays the least taxes.

[Mr. Flay]

I need to practice my plagiarism skills. To be serious though, I hadn't seen yours and I made the above to attempt to remedy issues that plague games at my homesite; village inactivity/disengagement and actives being killed off. For your set up, I'd say regular mountainous numbers are fine assuming you're looking for a 50% EV, but that's just my guess.

11:2 is theoretically balanced in Mountainous Forum Mafia. In practice, Town usually loses due to apathy/disillusionment. 8:3 requires them to lynch correctly more than 50% of the time, which doesn't happen often in non-Mountainous games.

[chamber]

11:2 is theoretically balanced in Mountainous Forum Mafia.

Based on what theory? town gets destroyed using random lynches in 11:2. You want like 15:2 to be remotely even.

[Mr. Flay]

EV? (which Forum Mafia consistently does worse than)

[chamber]

EV? (which Forum Mafia consistently does worse than)

The ev of 11:2 is like 23% chance town win. (I'm going off memory here, its definitely not 50%)

[chamber]

just simulated it again quickly.

~23% was 10:2. 11:2 is more like 40%, but additions in 2 after that have really bad diminishing returns, takes 17:2 to make it even.

[Mr. Flay]

*shrug* I was going off of memory of Numbers Part 1, but yeah 11:2 is within most definitions of "theoretically balanced" (40-60%). In practice it doesn't work.

[Burning_Earth]

But more than 11-2 is just stupid.

Maybe I'm just used to a site with better lynch percentages.

[LlamaFluff]

lol how to balance

Royals

2 Town "King" Masons (receive "Town Royal" role PM)
1-2 Town "Queen" Neighbors (receive "Town Royal" role PM)
1-2 Town "Prince/Princess" Lovers (receive "Town Royal" role PM)
X "Peasant" Vanilla Townies
[maybe a Town Universal Encryptor?]

1 Mafia "Queen" Neighbor (receive "Mafia Royal" role PM) OR 1 Mafia "Prince/Princess" Lover (receive "Mafia Royal" role PM) OR 1 Mafia Goon
2 Mafia Lovers

Spoiler: Role PMs

You are a Town Royal.

You know that <Player> is your twin Royal. They may be a "King" Mason (Town), "Queen" Neighbor (Town or Mafia), or "Prince" or "Princess" Lover (Town or Mafia). Only when you die will your specific identity, but not partner, be revealed.
You may talk with each other privately during the Night here: <url>
[opt: If the Town Universal Encryptor is alive, you may also talk there during the Day.]

You also have the ability to vote during the Day.

You win when all the Mafia are eliminated.

You are a Vanilla Townie.

You have the ability to vote during the day.

You win when all the Mafia are eliminated.

You are a Town Universal Encryptor.

As long as you are alive, all roles with private chat capabilities may talk during the Day.
You also have the ability to vote during the Day.

You win when all the Mafia are eliminated.

You are a Mafia Royal.

You know that <Player> is your twin Royal, and is Town. They may be a "Queen" Neighbor (Town) or "Prince" or "Princess" Lover (Town). Only when you die will your specific identity, but not partner, be revealed.
You may talk with each other privately during the Night here: <url>
[opt: If the Town Universal Encryptor is alive, you may also talk there during the Day.]

You know that <Player> and <Player> are Mafia with you, and are Lovers with each other.
You may talk with each other privately during the Night here: <url>
[opt: If the Town Universal Encryptor is alive, you may also talk there during the Day.]

You or one of the other Mafia may choose to kill someone during the Night. PM the Moderator your choice.

You also have the ability to vote during the Day.

You win when the Mafia make up 50% or more of the Town, or nothing can prevent this from happening.

You are a Mafia Goon.

You know that <Player> and <Player> are Mafia with you, and are Lovers with each other.
You may talk with each other privately during the Night here: <url>
[opt: If the Town Universal Encryptor is alive, you may also talk there during the Day.]

You or one of the other Mafia may choose to kill someone during the Night. PM the Moderator your choice.

You also have the ability to vote during the Day.

You win when the Mafia make up 50% or more of the Town, or nothing can prevent this from happening.

You are a Mafia Lover.

You know that <Player> is a Mafia Lover with you, and <Player> is a Mafia Royal/Goon.
You may talk with each other privately during the Night here: <url>
[opt: If the Town Universal Encryptor is alive, you may also talk there during the Day.]

You or one of the other Mafia may choose to kill someone during the Night. PM the Moderator your choice.

You also have the ability to vote during the Day.

You win when the Mafia make up 50% or more of the Town, or nothing can prevent this from happening.

basically i just wanted to play around with the idea of 3 town pairs (or 2.5 town pairs) where there's a slight obscurity to the role PMs. idk how it would work out in practice but hey gotta find something besides sleeping to kill time at 4 in the morning. also not sure about encryptor, or town-scum ratio??

gosh this is such a weird idea i d e k if open setup stuff yeah.

This feels like it will be damaged by early massclaim.

If its playing with neighbors you could even just do something very crude and say all players get a neighbor partner then balance it out from there. When you start guaranteeing things like there being a scum neighbor you enter a situation where them getting lynched early will basically end the game because of how many it clears.

[Mr. Flay]

Maybe I'm just used to a site with better lynch percentages.

In Mountainous?

[Burning_Earth]

Maybe I'm just used to a site with better lynch percentages.

In Mountainous?

On day 1 which is like mountainous.

And, yes, in mountainous.

[Leafsnail]

Day 1 is not like mountainous in an open game due to claims (this also applies to non-open games with confirmable roles).

[Burning_Earth]

I guess

[Kaiveran]

Want to hear what people think of this concept. Obviously the powers would have to be tweaked for balance but I'll think this is a good basic idea.

Jack Be Nimble

13 Players

1 Mafia Ascetic
1 Mafia JOAT (3 Powers)
1 Mafia Goon

2 Town JOATs (3 Powers)

8 Vanilla Townies

Mafia JOAT Powers are randomly selected from the following pool:

• Roleblock
  
• Strongman Kill (Variant: Protection/Bodyguard/PGO Immune)
  
• Ninja Kill (Variant: Watcher/Roleblock Immune)
  
• Bus Drive
  
• Role Cop

Town JOAT Powers are randomly selected from the following pool:

• Cop
  
• Watcher
  
• Jailkeeper
  
• Friendly Neighbor
  
• Bodyguard
  
• Vigilante
  
• Roleblocker
  
• Commuter
  
• Kidnapper
  
• Vengeful Self (permanent)

To clarify, the powers are selected from a pool, meaning that each power can only appear once.

[BBmolla]

Baby Enough Scum 8P

1 Mafia Doctor
1 Mafia Goon

1 Serial Killer

1 Jailkeeper
4 VTs

• Daystart
  
• The mafia team do not possess a nightkill
  
• Serial Killer must nightkill every night
  
• Serial Killer wins 1-1-1 endgames and 1-1 endgames.

Wanna try running this in micro, can I get some thoughts? Is the SK too disadvantaged? If so, what would be a solution? Turning JK into Doctor or Roleblocker?

Edit:

Baby Enough Scum 8P

1 Mafia Doctor
1 Mafia Goon

1 Serial Killer

1 Town Doctor
4 VTs

• Daystart
  
• The mafia team do not possess a nightkill
  
• Serial Killer must nightkill every night
  
• Serial Killer wins 1-1-1 endgames and 1-1 endgames.

This is actually probably better balanced.

[GreyICE]

just simulated it again quickly.

~23% was 10:2. 11:2 is more like 40%, but additions in 2 after that have really bad diminishing returns, takes 17:2 to make it even.

The thing is, town should theoretically lynch better than random. So 40% is usually considered balanced, because the town shouldn't ever have an even or better chance to win through random lynching.

[LlamaFluff]

Baby Enough Scum 8P

1 Mafia Doctor
1 Mafia Goon

1 Serial Killer

1 Town Doctor
4 VTs

• Daystart
  
• The mafia team do not possess a nightkill
  
• Serial Killer must nightkill every night
  
• Serial Killer wins 1-1-1 endgames and 1-1 endgames.

This is actually probably better balanced.

I like it.

Get the feeling town may get burned quite a bit though since they essentially have three lynches to hit the SK. They miss him by that point they are going to need some doctor help. You also have the thread of the SK being lynched before Town Doctor essentially creating a nightless game with an Innocent Child.

Will sleep on it but this sounds good

[LlamaFluff]

Want to hear what people think of this concept. Obviously the powers would have to be tweaked for balance but I'll think this is a good basic idea.

Jack Be Nimble

13 Players

1 Mafia Ascetic
1 Mafia JOAT (3 Powers)
1 Mafia Goon

2 Town JOATs (3 Powers)

8 Vanilla Townies

Mafia JOAT Powers are randomly selected from the following pool:

• Roleblock
  
• Strongman Kill (Variant: Protection/Bodyguard/PGO Immune)
  
• Ninja Kill (Variant: Watcher/Roleblock Immune)
  
• Bus Drive
  
• Role Cop

Town JOAT Powers are randomly selected from the following pool:

• Cop
  
• Watcher
  
• Jailkeeper
  
• Friendly Neighbor
  
• Bodyguard
  
• Vigilante
  
• Roleblocker
  
• Commuter
  
• Kidnapper
  
• Vengeful Self (permanent)

To clarify, the powers are selected from a pool, meaning that each power can only appear once.

First instinct is to kill off the Ascetic for scum.

10:3 with two town PRs and one scum PR is already strong for scum, they do not need anything else. Only reason I im not immediately pushing for more town power is that you have two confirmed town and scum will have a very difficult time fakeclaiming JOAT in this situation.

[BBmolla]

Baby Enough Scum 8P

1 Mafia Doctor
1 Mafia Goon

1 Serial Killer

1 Town Doctor
4 VTs

• Daystart
  
• The mafia team do not possess a nightkill
  
• Serial Killer must nightkill every night
  
• Serial Killer wins 1-1-1 endgames and 1-1 endgames.

This is actually probably better balanced.

I like it.

Get the feeling town may get burned quite a bit though since they essentially have three lynches to hit the SK. They miss him by that point they are going to need some doctor help. You also have the thread of the SK being lynched before Town Doctor essentially creating a nightless game with an Innocent Child.

Will sleep on it but this sounds good

2:5 with IC is pretty townsided, but it also gives Mafia incentive to not lynch the SK early which I think is pretty cool.