Tales of You (Dead zone)

[pieguyn]

I would have been confident about getting Generic if it came to endgame tbh. I had this nagging feeling the entire game reading his posts but I dismissed it. but at the time of that game I wasn't self-aware enough to put that feeling into words so I couldn't pursue it and even if I did no one would have listened to me

my problem as scum is that I don't wanna fuck over my team and I feel just by posting it lets everyone else figure out my team via associatives. that is literally one of my biggest reservations as scum - I just don't want to do injustice to my team. it's similar to my psychological approach as town. besides that, I just love figuring out the game and I don't get to do that as scum

I did win a scumgame because I fake claimed 1 shot sensor on D2 and everyone convinced themselves if I was scum they already lost. I was laughing like a bastard in the scum QT the entire game. even more so because I was posting like nothing but prod dodges and then no one knew why the hell I was still alive come like D4 and then they still couldn't bring themselves in all their paranoia to lynch me. so I kind of enjoy the part of seeing what I can get away with as scum too ~

the other recent time I enjoyed playing scum was O544 Tit for Tat - I was in a hydra with Varsoon playing against no less than 3 ppl from my homesite's town (Sakura Hana is from there and we got a bunch of ppl to come over here and raid her game). it was so hilarious bc I wanted to try and fool everyone from my homesite and then everyone besides like one player was townreading me. at one point I also manipulated someone who was onto me to get them off, under the pretense of "it seemed like I believe in my arguments" - I was LOL'ing so hard at that because I know it's a trust tell level towntell for me.. then everyone was scumreading Varsoon and I was making fun of him so hard cause he's supposed to be the good scum player and I'm supposed to suck yet everyone was townreading me lolol

I was also hard bussing one of my teammates which is smth I never do but his play in that game was just jesus christ

eventually we screwed up and got force replaced. I was so sad

[pieguyn]

but in all seriousness I love Varsoon for that game

I would never have been able to play like that if he wasn't there to support me lolol

[zMuffinMan]

nah the problem isn't so much that generic looked really town (and he did) but that generic being lynched and how people interacted with him semi-cleared a lot of other slots (or made it harder to lynch them) and took away a player that was influencing the game for scum

plus, i mean, one person decided i was scum entirely because of generic interactions (or a lack thereof) which didn't happen because obviously i didn't expect the generic flip to happen at that point

the generic lynch really threw a lynch in the works and turned the game on its head where previously it *could* have gone either way but given the suspicions at the time it likely would have been a scum win

[zMuffinMan]

a wrench in the works*

and the above is obv re: 169

[zMuffinMan]

I feel just by posting it lets everyone else figure out my team via associatives

people, in general, are no better at association hunting than random

some people get lucky or legitimately see an association that others don't see

but most of the time people don't know what to look for in associations

if, for example, i had let the association-hunting based on cephrir's play continue in xenosaga, we never would have lynched mollie.

I was LOL'ing so hard at that because I know it's a trust tell level towntell for me

*shrug* if you treat every town read you get coming your way as an achievement, and your end goal is to get as many town reads as you possibly can as scum, then it's really just a matter of figuring out what the pieces of the puzzle are that will earn you those town reads and that can be kinda fun

i think that is one really defining difference between my scum and town play. my scum play is designed to make me a town read. my town play, in general, lacks that. though so far i don't know anyone who has really been able to discern how that difference comes across in my play

[pieguyn]

that Generic flip was a godsend

it was basically the thing that cut through all the mist. I can only imagine how bad it would have been if he was alive longer. not only would it have been at least a few days before I could have done anything even if I figured out he was scum, but like all my assumptions about the game state till then would be wrong

and we have RadiantCowbells to thank for it \o\

[zMuffinMan]

the sad part is we knew the slot was a JK from N1 and planned around it but didn't take the replacement factor into account

i'm disappointed about that but :<

[pieguyn]

people, in general, are no better at association hunting than random

some people get lucky or legitimately see an association that others don't see

but most of the time people don't know what to look for in associations

if, for example, i had let the association-hunting based on cephrir's play continue in xenosaga, we never would have lynched mollie.

I find all the association hunting I do ends up being based on whether ppl's posts or pushes come across as legitimate - which is a part of what I scumhunt on anyway and so it's not exclusively association hunting. it was a large part of my final Casso read in 169

I also find a lack of interactions at all is a p good scumtell, as long as you can prove someone wasn't ignoring someone on purpose to fuck with association tells - while I disagree with Proph saying "more interactions = town, less = scum", I kind of agree with "none at all = scum" most of the time

but like I fear I'll do really obvious shit such as like addressing all my partners differently that ppl who know me will pick up on (similar to how Generic was sucking up to ppl in 169 and I was able to go back late game and see how he was sucking up to everyone except Casso)

and I still don't get why no one realized there was another scum besides the SK in the neighborhoods. I was POE'ing her from there since like D2 and then I died ._.

*shrug* if you treat every town read you get coming your way as an achievement, and your end goal is to get as many town reads as you possibly can as scum, then it's really just a matter of figuring out what the pieces of the puzzle are that will earn you those town reads and that can be kinda fun

i think that is one really defining difference between my scum and town play. my scum play is designed to make me a town read. my town play, in general, lacks that. though so far i don't know anyone who has really been able to discern how that difference comes across in my play

problem is most of the time I literally am incapable of faking what makes me a town read

and then once I get one, idk what to do from there. my mind is like wired as town by default and I don't know how to really push a scum agenda

I find that I can fake confidence in my reads, but so far every single time I've done so I've done it by just ignoring what my "read" actually is and so my reads come across as pretty obviously bullshit. see: touhou upick

[zMuffinMan]

I find all the association hunting I do ends up being based on whether ppl's posts or pushes come across as legitimate - which is a part of what I scumhunt on anyway and so it's not exclusively association hunting. it was a large part of my final Casso read in 169

yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeah well you also had a massive boner for a me-whatshisface team which kinda proves my point that association hunting can often bring up false positives.

I also find a lack of interactions at all is a p good scumtell, as long as you can prove someone wasn't ignoring someone on purpose to fuck with association tells - while I disagree with Proph saying "more interactions = town, less = scum", I kind of agree with "none at all = scum" most of the time

i tend to focus my scum hunting; in most games (especially larges) there are a LOT of people i do not interact with much (if at all).

also, it can be entirely playstyle based. i don't think i interacted with katsuki once in this game, and katsuki didn't interact with a lot of people D1. had we lynched scum D1 and someone had scum hunted based on interactions, with the idea that no interactions = scum, it would have produced a false positive on katsuki

[Katsuki]

Yeah I'm not particularly fond of interacting, it just leads to unending pages of fluff.

actually i think the psychological barrier for me as scum isn't so much that i don't want to mislynch people, but that i don't want to do anything that's seen as "scummy" and the more mislynches i push, the more likely it is someone will realise i'm scum

which is why i think i adopted the attitude i have towards bussing that i have; do it whenever it will make you look good, fuck your team, they're stepping stones to your victory. use them as you need.

So you're one of those people... Reminds me of a game I once played where I was scum with Fate, Faraday and CES... Guess who was the odd one out and who got bussed into oblivion D1. XD
At least Faraday bussed his way to victory, and thankfully it was only F2F lol.

[zMuffinMan]

well, i tend not to bus unless i deem it a necessity. i mean, ideally if i can win without bussing, i won't bus, but if i sense the flow turning towards a buddy i try to put myself in the best light i can possibly be in after that buddy goes down

[zMuffinMan]

i more meant "don't feel bad about bussing if you have to, use your partners as stepping stones to victory" but not like "BUS THE FUCK OUT OF EVERYTHING REGARDLESS OF GAME STATE!"

[Katsuki]

Bussing works wonders if youre good at it. Shitty buses are just plain lolzy

[mastin2]

Thus, still saying AP, Nacho, Mara/Orc, and PV.

I totally and utterly disagree, but I respect your right to have different opinions

Well, yeah. I said you're more likely to be right; I'm just holding on out of pure sheer stubbornness. (Quite frankly, the read most likely to be wrong would be AP, maybe PV, but even then, I'm not going to admit it and am going to stubbornly keep pushing even if it's wrong because again, I'm PROUD to be wrong and all that.)

i used to hate playing scum, and i still do to some extent

Same. (Except when I don't.) I prefer town, quite strongly.

[mastin2]

the other recent time I enjoyed playing scum was O544 Tit for Tat - I was in a hydra with Varsoon playing against no less than 3 ppl from my homesite's town (Sakura Hana is from there and we got a bunch of ppl to come over here and raid her game). it was so hilarious bc I wanted to try and fool everyone from my homesite and then everyone besides like one player was townreading me. at one point I also manipulated someone who was onto me to get them off, under the pretense of "it seemed like I believe in my arguments" - I was LOL'ing so hard at that because I know it's a trust tell level towntell for me.. then everyone was scumreading Varsoon and I was making fun of him so hard cause he's supposed to be the good scum player and I'm supposed to suck yet everyone was townreading me lolol

I was also hard bussing one of my teammates which is smth I never do.

And now you know what L4D was basically like for me. FILLED to the brim with people who know me intimately, and I

specifically brought up relics of my scumgame

(that is, aspects of my scumgame that were once more prominent but got dropped once recognized as being part of my scumgame and not my towngame) in my play during the day...and while gathering suspicion, still got a ton of townreads, and even those scumreading me were calling me scum with people not even close to being my scumbuddies. Much hilarity ensued. And I did laugh, seriously, seriously LAUGH in real life because of it.

...And then, I got a cop guilty on me. The normal scuMastin thing to do? Argue ambiguities in the role PM, all the myriad of different ways the result could be wrong. (Such as a redirector, that did exist in the game.) What *I* did?

Claim scum and troll for the remainder of the day phase.

Fun times, fun times.

[mastin2]

Bussing works wonders if youre good at it. Shitty buses are just plain lolzy

^This.

I, for instance, have gotten REALLY good at timing them as scum. Ridiculously good, even, to the point where it's basically made it impossible to catch my buddies, or if my buddies go first, makes people not think about me nearly as much.

I've lost two scum games this year, sure, but one was apathy and the other was AoT which was DANG close anyway. All others have been wins, all according to my plan.

[mastin2]

......And you know it's a sad, sad sign for the town when the dead town are discussing their glory days...as scum.

[mastin2]

And now you know what L4D was basically like for me. FILLED to the brim with people who know me intimately, and I

specifically brought up relics of my scumgame

(that is, aspects of my scumgame that were once more prominent but got dropped once recognized as being part of my scumgame and not my towngame) in my play during the day...and while gathering suspicion, still got a ton of townreads, and even those scumreading me were calling me scum with people not even close to being my scumbuddies. Much hilarity ensued. And I did laugh, seriously, seriously LAUGH in real life because of it.

...And then, I got a cop guilty on me. The normal scuMastin thing to do? Argue ambiguities in the role PM, all the myriad of different ways the result could be wrong. (Such as a redirector, that did exist in the game.) What *I* did?

Claim scum and troll for the remainder of the day phase.

Fun times, fun times.

In case zMuffinman doesn't have the time to read, it went basically like this:
"You so scum, it's not even fun-ny."
"Yep, I'm done; tired of run-ning.
But I'll have fun, to troll free."

[Katsuki]

I've yet to drop a scum game, perfect 5-0.

[zMuffinMan]

do you avoid multiscum/SK games or have you just gotten incredibly lucky in that regard?

[zMuffinMan]

i thoroughly dislike multiscum games (from both a town and scum perspective)

SK hunting is extremely fucking dumb to me

as is hunting for scum who are scum hunting

and as scum, trying to avoid cross kills is like trying to avoid a PR investigation. if you manage it, it's almost entirely because you got lucky with who you're playing against not targeting you for whatever reason

[zMuffinMan]

In case zMuffinman doesn't have the time to read, it went basically like this:
"You so scum, it's not even fun-ny."
"Yep, I'm done; tired of run-ning.
But I'll have fun, to troll free."

i followed that game from D2 onwards (coincidentally, had nothing to do with the events that played out that day)

that game is just another addition to the list of reasons i think PV is a very good player

[Katsuki]

do you avoid multiscum/SK games or have you just gotten incredibly lucky in that regard?

I haven't run into a multi-scum since 2012 or earlier.

I dislike multiball. I always get shot by the other scumteam for being too town...

I've made it to LYLO both games I was SK in I think... and lost both. XD

[mastin2]

i thoroughly dislike multiscum games (from both a town and scum perspective)

I actually have a LOT of fun and am near my most competent when town in multiscum games.

...I am at my absolute worst as scum in multiball, since I get nightkilled immediately! Sometimes by them scumhunting with their nightkill (>_<), most times by thinking they're hitting town.

SK hunting is extremely fucking dumb to me

Thus, why I don't bother--I treat them as town unless they're intentionally shooting town. Then it's just a faction of one, so I scumhunt off of scumminess, rather than interactions.

[Cabd]

Nobody joins you tonight. Timely save: check