Tales of You (Endgame)

[Titan]

Oh look, another game just ended that demonstrates that everyone should just sheep me.

Why are people not sheeping me?

This is the last time you get to ever make this statement if you're town here and you throw one more pile of bullshit at me this game.

[Red Gyarados]

Better help him lynch me rather than make empty threats about it if you want any chance to save him!

[CarbonFiber]

NotScience, is it your theory that JSU and AP are scum together who tried to get Cupcake mislynched?

[Red Gyarados]

Nacho is scum too

But yes, both mastin and Katsuki'

Only thing that doesn't make sense is JSU's claim in that case

[CarbonFiber]

Why is Nacho scum?

[Red Gyarados]

Because I have no idea where his read flip on mastin came from

His read not only flipped but he championed the mastin lynch while not voting mastin at all

He was on that shit katsuki wagon so there's some BoP in this (same with AP and JSU)

I also don't trust him at all so of course this all should be taken with several grains of salt

[Titan]

Well then don't say you would have held off if I'd not been passive about it. I wasn't shy about how I felt about that lynch and the entire situation and didn't want the day to end there.

I gave up worrying because you looked like scum posturing around the wagon there at the end and the only reason I could figure out that you would do that was because you guys had some way to end the game through night actions.

And part of my problem is that you're not actually looking at everything. You're discounting some things because you have a *strong read* which is fine but coming up with new ways that AP is scum without for one second considering the possibility that JSU is scum is a whole metric fuckton of confirmation bias. I, for one, don't see how you can be so sure. I have postulated that you are so sure because you guys are partnered because it's really the only reason why you've been going on about AP but not really pushing him and then using the Mastin scum read AP so he's scum scum scum! When Mastin isn't all that great at reading AP; I mean in Anything Goes he was 100% certain AP was scum when he was town telling like crazy. The day two suggestion that it should be AP instead of Mastin after you declared that Pieguy was the only person you trusted to lead the town and Pieguy was tunneling on Mastin. Why did you all of a sudden decide to suggest the day should go away from where the leader was saying to go? In some instances you look like you're trying to tie your partner AP to people in a weird manner.

But you going yeah there are too many investigative roles, have a town read here and here, so this has to be the scum one doesn't really make sense to me. I can see leaning one way, but completely discounting everything else? It's just eh.

Regaeding the town leaded thing: you mentioned this several times now. When I said that Pie was the only person I trusted to lead the town, I was taking to Mastin. Mastin made a huge deal about how he has resurfaced from a bad game and has grown into a town leader. He talked extensively about how he would lead the town, how he would reach out to people, and how he was doing "leader-centric" reachouts and pretty much referring to himself as the town leader of the game. I responded to him by saying that I trust the guy tunneling him much more than I trusted him. It wasn't meant to take a dig at anyone else in the game nor was I trying to undermine any other player. I had a strong scum-read on Mastin and Pie was the only one who was really understanding (at that time) where I was coming from, defending my points against Mastin and speaking in a way that I could understand. His read never wavered and I could follow what he was doing at every point. It's why I trusted him. He was viewing the gamestate almost exactly as I was. Just like you trusted Ffery who waffled and waffled on Mastin, I trusted Pie who had a similar strong scumread on Mastin and was thinking about things exactly the way I was. I never meant to say that anyone else is unqualified to lead the town. If it means anything, the only person I trust to lead the town right now is you and I am dead serious about it because you are the only person keeping a cool head throughout this shitshow of a game. I should have trusted you earlier and you ended up being more right than I was but that's just the way the game went. I can't change the past but I can put more effort into seeing your side from now on.

You are talking about me confbiasing AP when AP has been confbiasing me since he entered the game. It is pretty obvious I am town here if you rethink everything I've done in this game. Day 1, I cc'd RBD when he fake-claimed miller. You know that my scumgame isn't at a level where I would do such a gambit. I don't care if people who don't know my playstyle think that I gambited but you know it is impossible coming from me. There's also not a chance I'd leave you alive over Pie who was townreading the absolute crap out of me because you are a massive threat to me as scum. I've played with you enough and read enough of your games that I know that if you truly want someone dead, it is highly unlikely that you'd be unable to drive the lynch through. There's no way, I'd let someone like that live on, least of all when they are very closely familiar with my game. Third, look at my activity level. I really shouldn't be posting in this game when I've been so busy - and yet I am. I've been trying really hard to figure this game out even amongst the chaos and the noise. Even, look at the tone of my posts for over 500 posts - walls and all. Look at my interactions with other players, with you etc. It is also really obvious that I genuinely believed in my suspicions of Mastin and Rancid wrong though they may be.

You are paranoid of me for a very similar thing that I was paranoid of you about. I found your hammer on Mastin worthy of questioning. You started today in a similar way to what I started D3 - by asking me about my end of day play and getting paranoid about it. I get it. I had the same feeling when you hammered Mastin. I should have known better that there is not a chance in hell this is your scum play. And you know as well that there is no chance I am scum here if you just look at everything that I've posted in this game.

The problem I had with the way you treated Pie and the he's the only one you trust to lead town, and I didn't realize it was in response to Mastin's town leader thing, is that you didn't vote Mastin with him though you were trusting Pie to lead all the way. If I would have realized that it was just you commenting on Mastin's town leader narrative, and I did remember that exists but he wrote so damn much it was hard to take some of it seriously and really focus, it probably wouldn't have stuck out as so odd to me. But what freaked me out was while at the same time going he's the only one you trust to lead town, you weren't voting for the person he was tunneling on though you were certain he was scum and then you suggested the AP lynch.

I'm not sure you can look at me and say I'm keeping a cool head with a straight face. I don't feel like I have a cool head. I felt like I was getting there at the start of day when the thing I was worried about all night long didn't happen, but ohmygods paranoia means your scum!!! That's such fucking bullshit and I don't think for one second either Broseidon or desperado can't see it for anything other than it is. They are full of shit and for EITHER of them to actually think this is anywhere near Too Many Heads is such crack pot pawow that no I'm not seeing it at all.

They are pulling this games strings. They can't even come up with a good reason for why scum me would say I thought the game was going to end or would expect that at all? I mean like seriously. They are not acting like town AT ALL.

[CarbonFiber]

Because I have no idea where his read flip on mastin came from

His read not only flipped but he championed the mastin lynch while not voting mastin at all

He was on that shit katsuki wagon so there's some BoP in this (same with AP and JSU)

I also don't trust him at all so of course this all should be taken with several grains of salt

Okay, I agree. This was mostly what I was concerned about as well although I wouldn't say not voting Mastin was significant.

[Titan]

OHMYGODS she's such obvious scum because she got paranoid and thought the game could end.

What desp is gunning at is that it's bizarre that you would have thought that at all, so it seems like you're scum lying about being paranoid about something rather than being actually paranoid about something.

Why would I lie about being paranoid?

Serious question is extremely serious.

[Red Gyarados]

Because I have no idea where his read flip on mastin came from

His read not only flipped but he championed the mastin lynch while not voting mastin at all

He was on that shit katsuki wagon so there's some BoP in this (same with AP and JSU)

I also don't trust him at all so of course this all should be taken with several grains of salt

Okay, I agree. This was mostly what I was concerned about as well although I wouldn't say not voting Mastin was significant.

I'd say it is.

This was the person who was "his rock" and all that, and suddenly he starts championing herr lynch while not even voting her?

It's weird.

[Titan]

I feel like JSU is purposefully making this day distracting over the fact that I got ohmygods paranoid because I was questioning them about their behavior yesterday when previously cupcake was a strong town read of theirs.

[Titan]

I'm not sure what to make of AP jumping on that bandwagon either.

He's hardly the last person I'd expect to make a oh is someone scum because they made an illogical assumption?!? (not an insult to you btw just not an angle I'd expect you to take.)

[CarbonFiber]

The problem I had with the way you treated Pie and the he's the only one you trust to lead town, and I didn't realize it was in response to Mastin's town leader thing, is that you didn't vote Mastin with him though you were trusting Pie to lead all the way. If I would have realized that it was just you commenting on Mastin's town leader narrative, and I did remember that exists but he wrote so damn much it was hard to take some of it seriously and really focus, it probably wouldn't have stuck out as so odd to me. But what freaked me out was while at the same time going he's the only one you trust to lead town, you weren't voting for the person he was tunneling on though you were certain he was scum and then you suggested the AP lynch.

I'm not sure you can look at me and say I'm keeping a cool head with a straight face. I don't feel like I have a cool head. I felt like I was getting there at the start of day when the thing I was worried about all night long didn't happen, but ohmygods paranoia means your scum!!! That's such fucking bullshit and I don't think for one second either Broseidon or desperado can't see it for anything other than it is. They are full of shit and for EITHER of them to actually think this is anywhere near Too Many Heads is such crack pot pawow that no I'm not seeing it at all.

They are pulling this games strings. They can't even come up with a good reason for why scum me would say I thought the game was going to end or would expect that at all? I mean like seriously. They are not acting like town AT ALL.

The reason I got cold feet towards the end of the day was that I sensed movements in the game that made me feel like the actual scum (AP, Penguin) were setting us up with a Mastin townflip. I also thought it was so incredibly odd that everyone single player in the game suspected Mastin (besides AP). It just felt like something was off and I got paranoid about it. I wondered if there was a simpler explanation than the two of them being buddies: that town-Mastin had caught scum-AP and AP was townreading Mastin because Mastin was town.

Your coolheadedness I was referring to was your posts early D3 where I freaked out on you and you continued being reasonable and objective about everything even though you didn't have to be.

Yeah, Desp and BRO's suspicion of you is dumb and I don't think that your play is anything at all similar to Too Many Heads. But I don't know, I keep going back to BRO's meltdown post and I am wondering if he would use such a cheap tactic to win a scumgame. Like, let's say he is scum and wins, the rest of us at endgame are going to hate him for abusing their emotional side.

[AngryPidgeon]

It makes no literal sense for anyone who's ever played a game or two with me to go oh but 7:4 the numbers the numbers, how doesn't this make sense to you. I've literally fucked it up when people did point out numbers and thought 11:4 meant with two mislynches scum would win.

Ive played games with you and I expect a reasonable to good level of awareness/math from you.

Better help him lynch me rather than make empty threats about it if you want any chance to save him!

omg.

Why is Nacho scum?

???????????
RG already heavily hinted at why he thinks that just now. And I know you think the same, so what is this question >.>

The problem I had with the way you treated Pie and the he's the only one you trust to lead town, and I didn't realize it was in response to Mastin's town leader thing, is that you didn't vote Mastin with him though you were trusting Pie to lead all the way. If I would have realized that it was just you commenting on Mastin's town leader narrative, and I did remember that exists but he wrote so damn much it was hard to take some of it seriously and really focus, it probably wouldn't have stuck out as so odd to me.

The bit about Yggdra not being a threat compared to Tammy is also 100% ridiculus given what a universal townread they are and that they were in your neighborhood.

Why would I lie about being paranoid?

To...look town?? Im not saying I think thats the case, but you cant be seriously suggesting that scum would never try to do things that they do as town.

[AngryPidgeon]

He's hardly the last person I'd expect to make a oh is someone scum because they made an illogical assumption?!? (not an insult to you btw just not an angle I'd expect you to take.)

I NEVER SAID I THOUGHT YOU WERE SCUM FOR MAKING AN ILLOGICLAL ASSUMPTION, JESUS CHRIST.

[AngryPidgeon]

Im trying to figure out what the fuck is going in your mind and you are being EXTREMELY EXTREMELY EXTREMELY defensive about what went down in the neighborhood and actively refusing to out everything you know and simultaneously claiming you didnt do anything because you were preaching doom all night. It will probablyhelp me to get some perspective on this from PA whenever she gets around to this Today because Im really pretty extremely confused about wtf is going on right now.

[AngryPidgeon]

Im still pretty sure Tammy is town. I -think- JSU is just being indignant town but Im less sure of that.

[CarbonFiber]

???????????
RG already heavily hinted at why he thinks that just now. And I know you think the same, so what is this question >.>

I wanted to see why RG suspected him to see whether it matches up with my own thought processes.

[CarbonFiber]

Tammy, what are your thoughts on the way Penguin immediately went after MastinSSK after she replaced in? Did you help her catch up or clue her into anything in particular and did her understanding of the game so far feel reasonable based on how much she caught up/how much you helped bring her up to date in the neighborhood?

[Titan]

It makes no literal sense for anyone who's ever played a game or two with me to go oh but 7:4 the numbers the numbers, how doesn't this make sense to you. I've literally fucked it up when people did point out numbers and thought 11:4 meant with two mislynches scum would win.

Ive played games with you and I expect a reasonable to good level of awareness/math from you.

Thank you for thinking that, but I don't think in numbers. I don't pay attention to wagons, I've been so oblivious to wagons before that I've claimed thinking I was at L-1 when I was really at like L-5. I routinely am off on when MyLo LyLo is. Literally just last week when Pless and I were talking about the balance of NY 172, and he told me that people were going to complain about balance at the end of the game, I asked what the balance was he said 16:4. You know what my answer was? With 16 players, 4 scum makes sense. I don't think that way and even if I did it wouldn't matter because even after Penguin mentioned the numbers I still was worried scum had a trick up their sleeves.

Why would I lie about being paranoid?

To...look town?? Im not saying I think thats the case, but you cant be seriously suggesting that scum would never try to do things that they do as town.[/quote]

What benefit did I have? Almost everyone has me as town anyway. So, what was I trying to do? Really? Look insane? Get people to yell at me for something that if I knew it didn't make sense wouldn't make sense? Because really.

[The Fox and the Hound]

I think me saying that I'm working on figuring out how to use it in a protown way. Why are you guys bugging me to out what if she's town and scum don't know what she gave me, it could be immensely beneficial for town?

I thought we were talking about "why the game could have ended" still, not whatever the hell PA gave you.

That's what I'm referring to.

But, why are we still talking about me being paranoid?

Because unless you guys are going to turn this into some weird case for me being scum. OHMYGODS she's such obvious scum because she got paranoid and thought the game could end. Only scum would do that! Look she didn't even have the mindfulness to look at the numbers?!? Gotta be caught scum there.

Unless you're going to do that, the both of you are just engaging in this for a distraction.

Yeah, I really don't see how Tammy not knowing/caring how many players are alive is actually very relevant to anything. There has got to be someone this game who's deliberately antagonized her, it's just happened so much.

I'm on phone but I don't think you/pv are scum together. Feel free to correct me.

I know you've realized there is no reason for this now, but if there's exactly one scum here it's probably magenta just like it has been all game.

You are talking about me confbiasing AP when AP has been confbiasing me since he entered the game. It is pretty obvious I am town here if you rethink everything I've done in this game. Day 1, I cc'd RBD when he fake-claimed miller. You know that my scumgame isn't at a level where I would do such a gambit. I don't care if people who don't know my playstyle think that I gambited but you know it is impossible coming from me. There's also not a chance I'd leave you alive over Pie who was townreading the absolute crap out of me because you are a massive threat to me as scum. I've played with you enough and read enough of your games that I know that if you truly want someone dead, it is highly unlikely that you'd be unable to drive the lynch through. There's no way, I'd let someone like that live on, least of all when they are very closely familiar with my game. Third, look at my activity level. I really shouldn't be posting in this game when I've been so busy - and yet I am. I've been trying really hard to figure this game out even amongst the chaos and the noise. Even, look at the tone of my posts for over 500 posts - walls and all. Look at my interactions with other players, with you etc. It is also really obvious that I genuinely believed in my suspicions of Mastin and Rancid wrong though they may be.

I think it's pretty damn fair to be full of questions right now. No matter what one's reads are, there comes a point where you have to step back, realize you are doing something massively wrong, and try to figure out who/what the issue is. I'd be more concerned about people *not* getting paranoid.

Tammy, if you're town, I expect you to do a metric shitton with that VC.

...???

Votecount 1-31

With 17 players alive, it will take 9 votes to lynch or nolynch.

PeregrineV

(2):

AngryPidgeon

,

Mac
MastinSSK

(1):

CupcakePanda

Just Sheep Us

(5): orcinus_theoriginal, Red Gyarados,

Breakfast With Stalin

,

Rancid Broderick Drake, MastinSSK

, Kagura

AngryPidgeon

(1):

Lord Business
Rancid Broderick Drake

(6):

CarbonFiber

,

Just Sheep Us

,

PeregrineV

, The Fox and the Hound,

Yggdra Union

, Clyton
Not Voting (1): Titan

Blue is probably town claims (Vig+Miller)
Purple is confirmed to me/desp via our role

Weren't you going to do some giant VCA or something? Is that not happening?

VOTE: JSU

btw

You seemed pretty sure AP was scum just now and suddenly it's sheep time?

[The Fox and the Hound]

Oh also, with regards to whatever Tammy is not talking about, I think it's reasonably clear she is being deliberately vague, and it probably isn't for no reason, so why are we badgering her about it

[AngryPidgeon]

I asked what the balance was he said 16:4. You know what my answer was? With 16 players, 4 scum makes sense. I don't think that way and even if I did it wouldn't matter because even after Penguin mentioned the numbers I still was worried scum had a trick up their sleeves.

To be honest, that would have been more balanced than it was >.>
Im still a little bitter about that game.

What benefit did I have? Almost everyone has me as town anyway. So, what was I trying to do? Really? Look insane? Get people to yell at me for something that if I knew it didn't make sense wouldn't make sense? Because really.

Is it really that unreasonable for JSU to think it though? Sure, them being town means they are just wrong and loudly so from your perspective. That doesnt make them scum though.
I've faked paranoia as scum. Its not something I would consciously go "Gee people are townreading me, I guess I can stop trying to look town now" ever. I'd just keep doing whatever I was doing.

IDK, JSU could be scum. Im trying to resolve just how likely it is that RG is bussing them right now or what. I dont think they are town/town for sure.

[AngryPidgeon]

Yeah, I really don't see how Tammy not knowing/caring how many players are alive is actually very relevant to anything

That she STRONGLY believed the game was going to end? I mean if it was like 12:4 still, wouldn't you be raising your eyebrow at Tammy for thinking the game would end? Its much less egregious at 7:4 but still is a counterintuitive thought and I'd sort of expect someone who thought the game was going to end to actually validate their concern before voicing it. But she has said that she still believes her fear was salient despite it being 7:4 so -shrug-

Side note: How likely is Cabd to put a Death Godfather in a game like this or is that something he would never do?

[The Fox and the Hound]

An eyebrow? Sure. Spending multiple posts attacking her about it, no.

If Cabd put a death godfather in this game I will fly to California just to smack him upside the head.