Tales of You (Endgame)

[The Fox and the Hound]

-No, the possibility that you and AP were scum (and reasons for it) was the part of Tammy's post that I had also been worried about, but the reason why I've become concerned about you in particular is that I think you haven't exerted as much influence as I'd expect (with the AP thing being the best example of this). That's why I said in my reads post that my changed read on you was somewhat related to my comment on Tammy's post but not exactly. I haven't gone so far as to decide whether you being scum would make me more seriously consider AP-scum (although part of my reason for thinking AP-town was your miller claim so I suspect that I could).

-But it is the reasoning that I have a problem with. Obviously town misread others all the time so I could very well be suspected by town here, but if I think the reasoning defies a player's previous experience with me, then I'm going to be concerned. Your initial posts in response to my Tammy comment were really flawed to me and because of that seemed like a read of convenience rather than a natural read change, especially since you had expressed little concern about my posts before that. I will admit that sometimes I go too far with this and I think self-centredness has something to do with it also, but I don't think there's too much harm if I react strongly as long as I'm not actually making lynch decisions out of it, and perhaps there's even value in being aggressive, I don't know.

-I need to go over this. I may be wrong.

-If you mean considering people's reads of me when forming reads then yes. Best example I can think of is my town --> scum change in read of Titus in teen wolf mafia: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... &start=775 (Pages 32-35), oh and also I think it was part of my AP scumread in NY 172 but finding it would be difficult.

-CF, changing my posting to help you read me as town is what I do when I'm scum (and also sometimes when I'm town and about to get lynched but shush don't tell anyone), so I don't think it's reasonable to expect that I do that... for now.

-The attitude of 'I can't make town vote for my scumread' (which I feel almost comes with the added on 'so I won't try too hard to convince them'). I expect that you'd be more involved in directing the town. This could be wrong of me, but your posting here does suggest a certain confidence in your abilities as town so I think I can assume you're not like me.

[CarbonFiber]

-No, the possibility that you and AP were scum (and reasons for it) was the part of Tammy's post that I had also been worried about, but the reason why I've become concerned about you in particular is that I think you haven't exerted as much influence as I'd expect (with the AP thing being the best example of this). That's why I said in my reads post that my changed read on you was somewhat related to my comment on Tammy's post but not exactly. I haven't gone so far as to decide whether you being scum would make me more seriously consider AP-scum (although part of my reason for thinking AP-town was your miller claim so I suspect that I could).

Okay, so your initial issue was that I didn't exert influence to drive a lynch D3 like I did D1 and D2? And this had you concerned? Except that my push on AP wasn't any less than my push on Mastin or Rancid. With them, I helped build a wagon/lynch them because they didn't have someone claiming to back up their night action and apparently confirming them as town. With AP, JSU claimed to confirm him. So, it is not plausible to lynch AP even if he is scum and hunting for other scum takes priority. My push wasn't any less, just the effects were less and the reason is really obvious. What influence did you feel I didn't exert?

-But it is the reasoning that I have a problem with. Obviously town misread others all the time so I could very well be suspected by town here, but if I think the reasoning defies a player's previous experience with me, then I'm going to be concerned. Your initial posts in response to my Tammy comment were really flawed to me and because of that seemed like a read of convenience rather than a natural read change, especially since you had expressed little concern about my posts before that. I will admit that sometimes I go too far with this and I think self-centredness has something to do with it also, but I don't think there's too much harm if I react strongly as long as I'm not actually making lynch decisions out of it, and perhaps there's even value in being aggressive, I don't know.

I did express plenty of concerns over your slot fairly consistently before your response to Tammy's comment. ISO'ing me should make it clear. It is funny because I thought your read was the one that I worried was convenient because it came at a time when other people expressed suspicion. I like that you are on the lookout for convenient read changes but I am not seeing how you think mine was unless you didn't read my earlier posts and I'll wait for you to do that.

-If you mean considering people's reads of me when forming reads then yes. Best example I can think of is my town --> scum change in read of Titus in teen wolf mafia: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... &start=775 (Pages 32-35), oh and also I think it was part of my AP scumread in NY 172 but finding it would be difficult.
-CF, changing my posting to help you read me as town is what I do when I'm scum (and also sometimes when I'm town and about to get lynched but shush don't tell anyone), so I don't think it's reasonable to expect that I do that... for now.

I don't expect you to change your posting, I expected you to interact with me so I could figure out your affiliation rather than essentially scumreading me for scumhunting. If you are as worried as you are about being mislynched when town, don't you think transparency would help and town finding other townies helps town overall so looking town isn't something you should only do as scum. But I'll look over your linked games and the Gundam Seed game to see if I can figure stuff out from there. I do think that a lot of your early posting felt really townish and I want to re-read those parts.

-The attitude of 'I can't make town vote for my scumread' (which I feel almost comes with the added on 'so I won't try too hard to convince them'). I expect that you'd be more involved in directing the town. This could be wrong of me, but your posting here does suggest a certain confidence in your abilities as town so I think I can assume you're not like me.

It depends on the game. I don't generally tunnel as hard as I do so this game is atypical but there have been games where I tunneled before. But this game is atypical as well in that I am not usually as frustrated with the gamestate but I think that can be said for everyone. I do think I was very involved in directing the town toward a Rancid lynch D1 although Nacho derailed it at the last moment and I was very involved doing it D2 with the Mastin lynch and I think Pie and I were the ones spending the most amount of time driving home the lynches and influencing who gets lynched so I am not sure what you are referring to with the not directing town. We were probably the only ones actually doing stuff and trying to get somewhere as opposed to sitting back and doing nothing. I actually don't usually do this. I am more of an analytical poster that tends to re-read the game multiple times and post analysis although I sort of gave up re-reading the game once the spam wars started.

The reason I gave up today is that I just got back from writing my last final and thought I wanted to enjoy this game more than win so there's that.

[The Fox and the Hound]

I'm really sorry and I probably deserve a barrage of insults for this, but I've decided to put off doing more ISOs until tomorrow and the weekend.

CF, I can not discuss this properly as things stand. I've said what I thought, and your challenges are not things I can either counter or concede without looking back at your ISO (and I know I'm being difficult by not doing this now, so sorry for that).

I do not appreciate you repeatedly implying that I am not reading posts, as I have been reading every post since the beginning of Day 3. Sometimes I'll forget things or have misinterpreted something but it doesn't mean that I haven't read it.

I really feel like I need to take a break from this for a day, so I probably won't post anymore tonight.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Down to 11 players and I'm still having trouble keeping up ><

SoC:

I've hard townread everyone still alive at some point in this game, so my PoE isn't worth shitting on. I'm thinking at this point of voting amongst my stalest townreads, which wouls be {CF, F/H, Red Gyrados, PA}. Of those, Ffery was hard townreading PA at the time she had to leave.

I'm a bit uneasy on having the exact number of maybe-scum reads as there are scum. I should have more doubt about the remainder. With 4 in my lynchpool today, 5 in my hrai, and me = 10, the only person left out is Orci; I originally thought he was conftown for role-related reasons, but it was Orci who debunked that, and there's no scum motivation to do that and ample town motivation.

If there's scum in my hrai, I think it's PV, but I'd have initially missed JSU's clear of AP if PV hadn't reiterated it, and where's the scum motivation in doing that?

Soo....maybe swap PV out of my hrai in favour of Orci.

VOTE: Red Gyrados

Willing to take advice from the players in my hrai on vote-changing because hey look at me, I have unalloyed confidence in precisely buggerfuckeration.

I may get shitfaced and check back in this game later tonight, but I'm not confident enough in any flips to post in Kilrathi again. I know, so sad.

[Red Gyarados]

^lol

[Red Gyarados]

I promise you ffery's townreading me now

She doesn't even need to read the thread

It was like a disturbance in the force

[AngryPidgeon]

ffery was spoiled or are you reading at all, lol.

[CarbonFiber]

Beli, how are those townreads stale and not Nacho?

[PeregrineV]

page 255.

[Red Gyarados]

Even more of a reason for her to be townreading me then

[CarbonFiber]

Yeah, I don't get Beli's POE on how any of those reads have gone stale. Fox/me going back and forth should give plenty of information to read us and NotScience's return does the same. Penguin, I can understand. In fact, if reads go stale, I'd expect it to be from the ones that faded out, like Nacho or Magenta.

I can buy townreads on JSU, Titan, and PV. Those are my three strongest townreads. I can buy not lynching AP because of JSU's result. That still leaves six people.

[CarbonFiber]

Scum are 4 out of these 6 players {AP, Nacho, Penguin, Magenta, FoxHound, RedGyarados}

Whichever of you are town, make it obvious please (looking at you, NotScience).

[Red Gyarados]

If you can't see I've been obvious town thus far there isn't any helping you

[CarbonFiber]

Can you explain your townread on Nacho? I am just not seeing what you are seeing.

[notscience]

I'm not going to actually townread nacho until he flips

I'm choosing to trust him at arms length because I liked his reach out

But seriously, don't ask me for reasons to townread nacho

Because I am perceiving everything he does as scum because I don't trust him

[CarbonFiber]

I've had enough of this game. I am not sure why I keep checking it constantly. I am annoyed at town but I am going to try hard not to blame town for the state of the game but rather congratulate Nacho on being good scum.

Note to myself the next time I get irritated: It is not you and it is not the other townies. It is Nacho. He is a fantastic scum player. Don't rage at the town for being apathetic. Congratulate Nacho for sowing apathy this way. Nacho is going to win because he is brilliant, not because the town is bad and he fully deserves it!

Checking out of this game for good for a while. I've had enough, I'd much rather just play some other game.

[Red Gyarados]

I'd join your nachowagon in a heartbeat

Because I'm not getting most of what he's done

[Red Gyarados]

And I'm not apathetic either

I was mia from teh site and I'm willing to sit here and work with you

[CarbonFiber]

Okay, out of the six players I listed I found you the most town so that's awesome. I was just hoping you'd something so obvtown that'll tip the scales into me banking the game on you being town so I can POE you out and focus on the others.

The thing I wanted to investigate further was Brian's read on Mastin. He said earlier that he townread Mastin but as the day went on, that he wouldn't be opposed to lynching him even though he was scumreading him in Post 4706 and he votes later on. Can you explain (or get him to explain) the thought process behind townreading Mastin to being okay with his lynch?

What do you think about my other reads so far: JSU, Titan, Stalin, PV as town with scum being among the remaining players?

[Red Gyarados]

If I remember correctly, he was townreading mastin but viewed mastin as the catalyst for all the potshots and etc that was making this game so depressing for everyone so he wasn't opposed to getting rid of that.

I think Titan is definately town, and I liked Stalin's reaction to my entrance. Brian thought PV town but I'm not sure.

I don't like JSU.

[Just Sheep Us]

Scum are 4 out of these 6 players {AP, Nacho, Penguin, Magenta, FoxHound, RedGyarados}

Remove AP from that pool and put me more as sheeping your Tammy read, and we're in the same place.

[Just Sheep Us]

My eyes are basically glazing over at the walls.

There are 11 people left.

From my POV, myself, CF, p5, Beli, AP are all confirmed.

That leaves 4 scum in the remaining 6.

Sheeping CF's Tammy read means it's an auto town-win unless AP is a godfather, scum have a day role cop, or p5 is a scumvig.

[Just Sheep Us]

(Assuming CF's read is right)

[AngryPidgeon]

Yes well from my pov you are not confirmed at all. And neither is cf or p5. I'll roll with Tammy town.

[Just Sheep Us]

We're not having this conversation again :/