I maintain that the suspicion of us starting in
6788 is scummy. I'm pretty sure the post I made suggests that it's not a strong suspicion of mine, but more of a slightly outlandish theory that I was amazed someone else came up with too (the part about not telling Ceph because of it being too out there with no actual concrete 'I think this is scum' shows this pretty clearly I think). Carbon Fiber also emphasises the fact that he responded to it already, which 1. shouldn't make a difference and 2. didn't even counter the majority Tammy's post. Apparently from this I am opportunistic and scummy, but I see nothing in my post that could be interpreted that way (if I had used that to launch into a scumread then that would be fair enough, but while my readslist is a bit unclear as to the reason for my weakening CF read, I do say that it's not exactly about what I quoted before). My main issue at that time was CF's lack of influence (and interest in exerting it) at points in the game, and while I wasn't clear on exact details then, I feel that my re-read has confirmed a lack of it on Day 3 and early Day 4 in relation to scumreads (he has people that he scumreads, but at these times tends to take a sitting back approach that he actually mentioned as part of his scumplay earlier in the game).
My conclusion here though, is that the way a scumread on me develops feels unnatural. Although I wasn't sure of what I thought, I think that some of what CF said is stuff I'd think him unlikely to believe.
In post 6840, CarbonFiber wrote:You are null because neither your nor Cephrir's catch up posts were awesome. I disliked them quite a bit. They picked up on ridiculously irrelevant stuff. Nothing I saw in there felt like an attempt at scumhunting. They are massively positional. The points you picked up on seemed like they serve an agenda of laying down a trajectory of reads development so that you eventually wind up scumreading players that you want to scumread and townreading players that you want to townread. For example, 6570 is massively opportunistic. Defense of Tammy, questioning of RG and JSU, some pointless line about me that I don't even understand the purpose of. You've decided who you need to agree with and who you need to disagree with and it feels like you are tailoring your posts to that end. More positional junk in 6402. 6058 was just bad. 5606 is geared towards directing the lynch and a setup for your eventual vote. You disagree with Cupcake and agree with AP, never mind the strength of their respective points. 5360 was incredibly underwhelming and the mechanical questioning was awfully fluffly.
I few of the points raised here are fairly reasonable, but my main problem is the addition of ones that are not, mostly in other places.
The argument about me townreading AP (which he has continued even today) feels really off as well. My post says it was something I was worried about, not something that I actually believed was the case.
The other thing is he argues that not going for lynches is the idea based on the gamestate etc. as if it's obvious (
6849), but after Day 3, logic dictates that this kind of play may lead to lynches being determine that you're not happy with, so after Day 3 I would expect CF to try and have a greater role in influencing the lynch, not ease up.
7037 is weird. When you really think about it, all the things he describes of RG's play are things I'd expect of scum trying to get townread, while his description of our play is what I'd expect from town. It's just colored differently to have us look bad and RG look good (not sure of the viability of CF/RG combo right now but there are a few posts that have made me suspect it), but in my opinion at least it's the opposite of what I'd think.
Then we get to the reaction test fiasco. I believe that the PV thing was intended to be a reaction test and I don't have a problem with it. However, I don't believe that he would vote Tammy as a reaction test as town after what happened earlier and also considering the fact that it makes no sense whatsoever. If he's doing something deliberately unnatural to see who will jump on him for it, then it would actually make more sense for town to suspect him for it than not. He uses the fact that he thought tammy was gone as a reason for posting what he did about PV, but how then does he vote for Tammy after he realises that she's still there?? It doesn't make a great deal of sense as scum either, but I could see it happening from scum worried about looking bad after Tammy's vote on them and making a spur of the moment decision, but from town, it just doesn't fit.
The penguin vote despite having previously thought Nacho, AP and I were all obvscum too is weird.
In post 7346, CarbonFiber wrote:No, you are not being reasonable. You are hedging by pointing out towny and scummy posts so you can take whatever stance is convenient for you.
And adding on to this, there are many points in the game where CarbonFiber himself has both reasons to townread and scumread a player, so how does he think it scummy if it's something he himself has felt.
That's the end of it, and while I feel like it's a scumread I know that there's some townish stuff I need to look over, so I'm going to read the few pages of the thread that I didn't before and then decide what I think.
