League of Legends (Old)

[Saki]

Saki, can you give me advice on how to build Veigar?

after this game sec

[Saki]

Saki, can you give me advice on how to build Veigar?

after this game sec

I've seen an early chalice pickup for mana sustain in lane for constant Q farming and waveclear with W
I mean, I don't play him nor have I seen him played often but I'd recommend just going for a chalice into DFG-Dcap-void picking up athenes somewhere along the way

[Staeg]

Quinn top plays like Vayne/Teemo top. Don't go hybrid-fighter, pick up Triforce and boots with Furor and kite hard.

oh gods above

[FakeGod]

Never mind, then.

[Saki]

Never mind, then.

http://www.probuilds.net
cross-check here

[animorpherv1]

Saki, can you give me advice on how to build Veigar?

after this game sec

I've seen an early chalice pickup for mana sustain in lane for constant Q farming and waveclear with W
I mean, I don't play him nor have I seen him played often but I'd recommend just going for a chalice into DFG-Dcap-void picking up athenes somewhere along the way

This is pretty much what I'd recommend, from my few veigar games.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

i like playing urgot top lane

[animorpherv1]

Would someone be willing to teach me how to lane? I know this seems weird, but I can't lane at all - I can do pretty well after, but laning just confuses me.

[JasonWazza]

So after my last 2 games of ranked, i feel i should always jungle in ranked (they were both duos so i managed to get jungle in both).

First game Shyvana jungle, all lanes are basically going even, Jax doesn't know how to jungle (had a madred's all game, never made the FF), while i have my FF at 14, and stack it extremely well coming out and just crapping on everyone, cause you know, i'm Shyvana, force bunches of objectives, and force the game ending team fight by jumping them all picking off Karthus outside of where we would team fight.

Second game i go Vi because i'm 4th pick, Kat Vs Yasuo mid, so i just constant gank mid, completely shut down Yasuo the entire game (ultimate as soon as he did anything) and got Kat fed to the point that she got an Instant Quadra kill in our last team fight.

And yet somehow i feel like, next time i ranked i won't manage to get jungle because people think they are good and call roles they are actually horrible in.

[RayFrost]

Would someone be willing to teach me how to lane? I know this seems weird, but I can't lane at all - I can do pretty well after, but laning just confuses me.

The basics concept of laning:

#1: CS

#2: Harass

#3: Ward coverage and jungle awareness

#4: Using a lead

#5: Punishing mistakes

#6: Catching up if/when behind

Which bits of this list do you need help with?

[JasonWazza]

Could you go over 6 for me?

I'm generally good in laning phase, but if i get behind i struggle a lot.

[RayFrost]

Could you go over 6 for me?

I'm generally good in laning phase, but if i get behind i struggle a lot.

There is only one global piece of advice I can give: buy a pink ward, even if you don't buy any other wards. (I tend to average 3-5 green and 2-4 pinks in any given game as a mid laner, for example)

For the rest, it depends highly on the matchup, but I can give general concepts per lane:

Top: Build defenses. You're fucked if you try to build damage and outdamage the other guy. Back off from trades, if you've got no disengage then stay in xp range and back off if they walk up, don't even try to farm until it hits your tower. If they get so strong they can just dive you, don't even bother defending the tower. Go farm a bit of the jungle / roam mid to try and get something done. Buy wards and keep vision on the map so your team knows when the guy you let get super strong is coming to smash them. Push the tower with your jungler if you have a good opportunity to do so, but I don't recommend trying to have your jungler counter the snowball effect as a lot of top lane matchups will just lead to the other guy being like "oh, double buffs and double kill? thx." Obviously exceptions exist etc etc.

Mid: Really depends on the style of the other champion.

If they're a roam heavy champ, put down wards and call every single mia ever even if you just killed them or saw them back. Say that shit, there's no promise they're gonna come back to lane.

If they are playing a super farmer angled toward late game, let them farm and go roaming. You let them get ahead, so you can't really fight them. Just punish other lanes instead to catch up / get the team ahead. Try to coordinate this with your jungler. Put down wards and get a sweeper to clear wards for the roam to make sure there's not an incoming counterroam.

If they're a lane abuser without a lot of potential to scale into a godly late game, buy a negatron cloak / chain vest and just farm and don't die. Put down wards, and stay alive. Keeping yourself and your team alive is 90% of your job in this situation. 10% is getting cs.

Bot: Depending on the timing, push down the tower with your jungler / mid then rotate to push down mid, get that global gold and map control early to give you a relief of pressure to be able to put down wards and go for picks / farm more comfortably than them. Around level 7-9 is a good time to do this, usually.

If it's early game, just survive and call for a gank from mid / the jungle together if the enemy bot is being mindlessly aggressive, keep wards up (if you're about to say "Well I'm adc I don't need to buy a ward the support can do it" fuck you, get a pink ward and put that shit down for your gankers - the support can only get one of these things), and just try to maintain the ability to get cs in that lane. Spam the shit out of health pots if you're dying to poke, get double doran's blades as adc if you're just losing flat fights (that extra health *is* significant).

[BROseidon]

Saki, can you give me advice on how to build Veigar?

after this game sec

I've seen an early chalice pickup for mana sustain in lane for constant Q farming and waveclear with W
I mean, I don't play him nor have I seen him played often but I'd recommend just going for a chalice into DFG-Dcap-void picking up athenes somewhere along the way

Finish Athene's first. Let's you farm q better and not get shoved to turret constantly.

I see DFG built all the time, but I'm not really sure how necessary that is. If your goal is to blow up the ADC/APC, the low range on DFG combined with your lack of mobility seems bad relative to just going dcap/void after Athene's

[RayFrost]

If your goal is to blow up the ADC/APC, the low range on DFG combined with your lack of mobility seems bad relative to just going dcap/void after Athene's

This is correct.

[Saki]

Saki, can you give me advice on how to build Veigar?

after this game sec

I've seen an early chalice pickup for mana sustain in lane for constant Q farming and waveclear with W
I mean, I don't play him nor have I seen him played often but I'd recommend just going for a chalice into DFG-Dcap-void picking up athenes somewhere along the way

Finish Athene's first. Let's you farm q better and not get shoved to turret constantly.

I see DFG built all the time, but I'm not really sure how necessary that is. If your goal is to blow up the ADC/APC, the low range on DFG combined with your lack of mobility seems bad relative to just going dcap/void after Athene's

You don't -have- to blow up their ADC/APC, though. Killing their Kha'Zix/Lee Sin/Master Yi/Riven is just fine too.

Veigar has enough burst and benefits from CDR enough to get that Athenes first.

Sorta like the mentality behind LeBlanc getting Athenes.


I personally would never do that because it's not the way I play.

[Saki]

Would someone be willing to teach me how to lane? I know this seems weird, but I can't lane at all - I can do pretty well after, but laning just confuses me.

just what are you having problems with in lane?

are you dying too much? if so, to what?
are you not dying but falling behind in cs all the time?

[animorpherv1]

Would someone be willing to teach me how to lane? I know this seems weird, but I can't lane at all - I can do pretty well after, but laning just confuses me.

The basics concept of laning:

#1: CS

#2: Harass

#3: Ward coverage and jungle awareness

#4: Using a lead

#5: Punishing mistakes

#6: Catching up if/when behind

Which bits of this list do you need help with?

1, 4, 5 (6 was already covered). 3 I'm bad at jungle awareness but that's because I do't look at my minimap enough.

[JasonWazza]

For 1 (and this is just how i first learnt how to CS) make a custom, pick a champ with a long ass AA animation (Vlad, Anivia etc.) and try just farming with last hits (also helps you learn to freeze lane)

It's how i learnt to CS, i just have the one problem that i always kinda lose my CSing at the start of every match XD

[Iecerint]

The advantage of extra CDR on Veigar is that he can stack his Q more per unit of time. CDR directly translates into bonus AP on top of whatever other stats.

[BROseidon]

Also, getting off second spell rotations faster is pretty powerful.

[Saki]

The advantage of extra CDR on Veigar is that he can stack his Q more per unit of time. CDR directly translates into bonus AP on top of whatever other stats.

I know this is true of Nasus but I didn't think Veigar would give up killing power mid-game for a stable late-game.

Oh well.

The more I know.

[Saki]

Would someone be willing to teach me how to lane? I know this seems weird, but I can't lane at all - I can do pretty well after, but laning just confuses me.

The basics concept of laning:

#1: CS

#2: Harass

#3: Ward coverage and jungle awareness

#4: Using a lead

#5: Punishing mistakes

#6: Catching up if/when behind

Which bits of this list do you need help with?

1, 4, 5 (6 was already covered). 3 I'm bad at jungle awareness but that's because I do't look at my minimap enough.

1--just get used to your champion's AA animation.
If it helps you, time your autoattacks after the caster minion AAs hit.
(Their AAs do more damage and are more noticable)
was one of the first tips someone gave me when I started DotA and it works somewhat in League

4-If you pull ahead in lane, or find yourself in a dominant position, there are a few things you can do.

When the enemy champion is scared to hell of you/you can pretty much kill him or leave him almost dead if he walks near you, and if you see the wave pushing hard towards your turret, simply tank the lane minions at your turret then freeze them there. This will deny him from cs and exp. Usually will result in the enemy laner roaming or taking jungle camps so alert your team.

You can also push very very hard and keep the enemy laner under their turret. When they try to CS under turret, harass them hard.

When they pop low enough and they don't back off, simply dive the turret and kill them.
Once you take the turret, you get global gold and map pressure in your particular area. (An early mid/bottom turret can lead to several blue/red buffs stolen and dragons).

Also, you can push the lane very hard then simply walk to another lane or into their jungle where you have vision and try to grab more kills to snowball yourself or your teammates.

5-Punishing enemy mistakes.

There's a lot of little mechanical mistakes that people make in lane.

Misjudging minion damage/taking too much damage from minions, especially early on.
Loitering in a warded bush.
Missing an ability/using an ability on a minion.
Using an important ability to no real game impact.
Facechecking a bush.
Misjudging their ability to do damage. (e.g. what you do to 'bait' for your jungler)
Getting hit by non-targetted abilities.

You can capitalize on all of them. Taking minion damage comes from poor positioning or autoattacking you. If you have the minions on your side you can easily win trades. Use the opportunity to do a lot of damage to the enemy laner.

The enemy walks into a bush you warded. Not really a mistake but you can capitalize upon it in the form of gtfo if it's their jungler or harassing for enemy laners.

Missing an ability. If Blitzcrank uses his Q, you have a 20 second window when it is down. You can force Blitz and his ADC to play passive and/or take free harass during that period. Do it.

Using an important ability. Ezreal, for whatever reason, used Arcane Shift then walked back into range. For the next 10 or so seconds, he will not have it up. Trade with him or try to kill him.

Facechecking. Punish it.

Misjudging damage output. Bait a turret dive or bait a fight for a gank if you'll think you'll live.

Getting hit by non-targetted abilities. Don't get hit.

[FakeGod]

So.

Getting DFG first means that I can 100 to 0 whoever I'm laning against when I come back to lane.

Whereas, any other item as the first item doesn't allow me to do this.

Farming Q bit faster is nice, but it's not as necessary for Veigar to farm Q as much as it is for Nasus.

I feel that early Chalice isn't important for the mana anyway, since as the mid laner I should be getting a blue.

I mostly build it when I'm up against a champion who can reliably deal magic damage to me, similarly to when I build Armguard versus Yasuo/Zed, etc.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

So.

Getting DFG first means that I can 100 to 0 whoever I'm laning against when I come back to lane.

Whereas, any other item as the first item doesn't allow me to do this.

Farming Q bit faster is nice, but it's not as necessary for Veigar to farm Q as much as it is for Nasus.

I feel that early Chalice isn't important for the mana anyway, since as the mid laner I should be getting a blue.

I mostly build it when I'm up against a champion who can reliably deal magic damage to me, similarly to when I build Armguard versus Yasuo/Zed, etc.

This so much. Chalice is a noobtrap for Veigar. Read his passive, consider blue buff and you shouldn't be running out of mana. Q stacking is only important if your opponent isn't in lane. If he is, you'll be throwing Q's in his face. Veigar isn't a Nasus. You won't be building defensive stats while stacking Q. You'll be building him to blow people up post 6.

The problem with playing Veigar like a Nasus (just stacking Q) is that Veigar has no reliable hp/mr/armor stats to fall back on. One good gank and he's dead. And with Athene's first, he's a total non-entity until late game, where the game is likely already won by other summoners then Veigar. Yes, you can stack Q, but If you build DFG, you spike midgame and can snowball really hard from all the kills you can pick up. Follow it up with Void Staff and you'll be able to oneshot almost everyone. And then you still have all the time in the world to stack that Q. If you want to know how to play Veigar, I suggest you view one of scarra's video's where he plays Veigar.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

As a fairly newbish guy, who plays a lot of stuff that wants lategame scaling.

Catching up from behind is basically do a lot of cs and avoid taking harass. This means don't try do much harass yourself. Depending on your lane, ward a ton so they don't roam against your passiveness.

If you die, you won't catch up by yourself by going ham, which is the biggest mistake I see people make. You obviously were not able to beat them in a fight before you died, so why would them killing you make things better? Your main hope is stall until you get to a point where your power-spike is higher than theirs, even though theirs is ahead of yours (if you die a lot, this will be never).

What if they scale more than you? You fked up bigtime. Either you misplayed an earlygame champ or you picked something horrible. Maybe you aren't behind after one death, but don't count on it.