League of Legends (Old)

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Not really? You basically just have to win more games than you lose to slowly raise your mmr.

http://op.gg to figure out roughly your mmr.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

You'll basically know your mmr is roughly where you belong when you start gaining around 20lp and losing around 16lp.

[Titus]

TrenchoatTitus (NA server) Scarletrage (Oceania)

[animorpherv1]

TrenchoatTitus (NA server) Scarletrage (Oceania)

Can't find Trenchcoat, was there a typo?

EDIT: Yeah, there was a typo.

EDIT^2: If you want, I can jump onto my low level (like 5/6) account whenever and I can play with you and give tips.

[JasonWazza]

Question, should i be taking ignite or Teleport as a top laner in the current meta.

My champions are generally Renekton/Shyvana, i also do Teemo and Ryze when team comps require it.

The reason i normally take TP is because i'm normally a split-pusher and force objectives via doing so, and because i find it's easier for me in lane if i have TP.

However i am considering buying Riven and don't know if it's worth taking Ignite for me personally because of my playstyle as a top laner.

[PJ.]

Honestly man, it seems to be a toss up. If i'm going for the kill early and have a snowball champ, I like ignite, if i'm a top lane wall guy i take tp. But than again, Pros take TP on jax,

[Iecerint]

I think TP is normative because it's hard to participate in the first dragon fight as top lane without it. But if you're at a level where the first dragon fight isn't really a thing, it probably isn't as important.

[BROseidon]

Pros take TP because of all the rotational shenanigans it lets them pull.

In solo queue, you aren't gonna be pulling the same shit, so yeah, it's a tossup. I prefer ignite, personally, but that's also b/c I can't split push to save my life (I also suck at top, and having the kill potential is nice)

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Honestly man, it seems to be a toss up. If i'm going for the kill early and have a snowball champ, I like ignite, if i'm a top lane wall guy i take tp. But than again, Pros take TP on jax,

Well, Jax is lategame. You should take ignite on champs that have kill potential pre 6, like renekton/riven/xin etc. If you play something like Jax, Irelia or Nasus doesn't really need the ticks of ignite to finish off targets. Then you're better off taking teleport

[JasonWazza]

Honestly man, it seems to be a toss up. If i'm going for the kill early and have a snowball champ, I like ignite, if i'm a top lane wall guy i take tp. But than again, Pros take TP on jax,

The thing i find is, i don't care if i miss a kill by like 20 HP (which is very much not at all often) because then i can slam 2+ waves (gotta love when they go to back near the tower) into the tower, back, buy and then get back to lane by time they are up and in lane again.

But i can see the point of running ignite as well, i just tend to favor my splitpushing over a early 200 gold.

I think TP is normative because it's hard to participate in the first dragon fight as top lane without it. But if you're at a level where the first dragon fight isn't really a thing, it probably isn't as important.

*usually shot calls an early dragon because of roaming*

I mean it rarely makes that massive of a difference because i'm in the Elo where 200g each doesn't do much, but i know i can generally use it efficiently.

Pros take TP because of all the rotational shenanigans it lets them pull.

In solo queue, you aren't gonna be pulling the same shit, so yeah, it's a tossup. I prefer ignite, personally, but that's also b/c I can't split push to save my life (I also suck at top, and having the kill potential is nice)

Wait i'm not supposed to be pulling random rotational bullshit out of my ass?

And yeah i find split-pushing and forcing objectives tends to be what wins me most of my games, so that's what i tend to keep doing, it's just a matter of my team not throwing the lead in objectives i get us.

Honestly man, it seems to be a toss up. If i'm going for the kill early and have a snowball champ, I like ignite, if i'm a top lane wall guy i take tp. But than again, Pros take TP on jax,

Well, Jax is lategame. You should take ignite on champs that have kill potential pre 6, like renekton/riven/xin etc. If you play something like Jax, Irelia or Nasus doesn't really need the ticks of ignite to finish off targets. Then you're better off taking teleport

So if i think i have the kill potential on champs like the listed ones, to get a kill without ignite, should i be taking TP or Ignite?

I find that i can force a lot of kills out pre-6 on Shyvana who pre-6 i wouldn't have thought would be doing that (but that's low elo i guess)

But if i were to buy riven and find that in most games i can get a kill pre-6 without the ignite, would i still take the ignite as a safety net for the kill, or go with TP?

[RayFrost]

Ignite does more than just net a kill early. An ignite on an adc can shut down their lifesteal healing, an ignite in a teamfight situation can give vision on a key target trying to brush kite, finish someone that it'd be dangerous to go in range to finish with something else (burning your e to dive into tower range vs igniting them and saving your hp), etc.

The value of tp is to have more map presence, the value of ignite is to have more fight presence. It's a roughly even tradeoff at this level, even if tp dominates the scene at the highest levels due to insane shit like duo jungle -> tp bot lane swapperino strats.

[JasonWazza]

OMG YAY RIVEN FREE WEEK

I tried her once during OFA:MM (with a friend in a custom game) but this means i can give her a real tryout before i go and buy her.

Riot always manage to pull one champ out that i actually want to try.

[animorpherv1]

ugh

I am so not excited about these AD changes - IE needs a nerf at this point, because deciding the lane on a random crit is not what should happen.

[RayFrost]

Hi my name is 1% critchance rune

Fuck you

<3

[animorpherv1]

Fuck you too <3

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

@Jason. if you kill people without ignite pre6, then it's sloppy play by them or very good play by you. if anything, I'd still take ignite then. chances are you will be facing someone that won't fall so easily and you'll still want to secure that kill. if anything, having ignite in lane again puts a lot of pressure on your lane opponent because he cant snuck in that risky cs without you jumping him.

also, always take ignite against Mundo's. otherwise he'll always escape post6

[BROseidon]

Pros take TP because of all the rotational shenanigans it lets them pull.

In solo queue, you aren't gonna be pulling the same shit, so yeah, it's a tossup. I prefer ignite, personally, but that's also b/c I can't split push to save my life (I also suck at top, and having the kill potential is nice)

Wait i'm not supposed to be pulling random rotational bullshit out of my ass?

And yeah i find split-pushing and forcing objectives tends to be what wins me most of my games, so that's what i tend to keep doing, it's just a matter of my team not throwing the lead in objectives i get us.

Honestly man, it seems to be a toss up. If i'm going for the kill early and have a snowball champ, I like ignite, if i'm a top lane wall guy i take tp. But than again, Pros take TP on jax,

Well, Jax is lategame. You should take ignite on champs that have kill potential pre 6, like renekton/riven/xin etc. If you play something like Jax, Irelia or Nasus doesn't really need the ticks of ignite to finish off targets. Then you're better off taking teleport

So if i think i have the kill potential on champs like the listed ones, to get a kill without ignite, should i be taking TP or Ignite?

I find that i can force a lot of kills out pre-6 on Shyvana who pre-6 i wouldn't have thought would be doing that (but that's low elo i guess)

But if i were to buy riven and find that in most games i can get a kill pre-6 without the ignite, would i still take the ignite as a safety net for the kill, or go with TP?

Re my point:

Pulling off split pushing and rotational strats requires a lot of coordination. In plat, you see a lot of tops who dominate their lane and go for the splitpush, but do it out of sync with their team such that they give free kills (then proceed to yell at the team for not being in position to take other objectives, when it was equally their fault for pushing when they shouldn't have). Splitpushing doesnt mean you get to ignore what the rest of your team is doing, since they need to be pressuring stuff as you pressure stuff, and that's hard to pull off with randos.

Maybe b/c you're lower elo, that sort of stuff doesn't get punished as hard, not sure. There are also a lot of issues with people splitpushing w/o proper vision, which gets them killed when they shouldn't. People think that having the warding trinket means you don't have to buy wards, when you need to have max wards on the map covering your ass when you're splitpushing.

Re kaleidescope's point:

1) Jax is broken and is both a lane bully and a hyper carry. He has substantial trade and kill potential pre-6 (it's not, like, Renekton broken, but he can out-trade a lot of popular tops early.

2) Shyv is a lane bully pre-6 in lower MMRs because people don't understand how she works. She gets bullied because her damage has notable downtimes that you can abuse, but if you just walk at her and fight, you're going to lose (W does a lot of damage, and fighting her after she pegs you with e is a bad idea).

3) There are reasons to take ignite on farm-heavy toplaners. Mostly, it's to prevent dives, since having kill potential when they dive you makes it a lot less likely that they'll dive you (very true of champs like nasus/malph/ww that farm under turret a lot, but make you tank the turret a lot to fight them under turret).

[PJ.]

1) Jax is broken and is both a lane bully and a hyper carry. He has substantial trade and kill potential pre-6 (it's not, like, Renekton broken, but he can out-trade a lot of popular tops early.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

About splitpushing, it's simple. It's called splitpushing. NOT solo pushing. Do one and not the other.

[MrZepher]

ugh

I am so not excited about these AD changes - IE needs a nerf at this point, because deciding the lane on a random crit is not what should happen.

Nothing about this is correct.

[MrZepher]

With the AD changes you can go either hyper sustain and go bloodthirster first; its cheaper than IE and stronger 1v1 potential because of overheal, and now that there's no stacking element it's decent power spike right when you buy it. dorans>vamp>bt just like it is now (you won't need lifesteal runes)

Or you can go hyper damage with IE which is more expensive but has a massive power spike once you buy it (and all the parts building up to it tbh), and you'll be relying on crits to proc your relatively small %lifesteal to sustain. dorans>dorans+boots>IE parts>IE (will probably need lifesteal runes if you're not investing in double dorans)

Basically if you go BT and don't shit on the other lane before they finish IE that's your fault, not the fault of the inherent strength of the item.
AD's NEED the strength of IE to be relevant at 6 items otherwise we just die to hyper tanks and tanky bruisers.

as an aside there are also going to be some utility builds that focus on early power spikes with Essence Reaver (which is basically going to phase out muramana on champs like Ezreal or certain Ashe builds that want the mana sustain early but don't really need such a massive mana pool at 16-18).

[animorpherv1]

ugh

I am so not excited about these AD changes - IE needs a nerf at this point, because deciding the lane on a random crit is not what should happen.

Nothing about this is correct.

There's a 300 gold difference at this point, so there's no reason to

not

go double dorans straight into IE. It's totally feasible for one lane to get IE at the same point that the other lane gets a BT.

[Scarab]

It's 300 gold + the cost of the Doran's blades. That's 740 gold if there's a difference of one blade, 1180 if there's a difference of two, and 1006 gold if the BT adc buys one doran's blade and sells it.

[animorpherv1]

What adc

won't

be rushing double doran's? After the across the board lifesteal nerf, it's practically mandatory. On top of that,the lowered zeal cost buffs the IE rush, as more as = more crits = more damage. Getting more crits, faster, and earlier, is just OP if you're OK with giving up both 2.25 AD (or whatever the attack speed quints give) and .5% life steal.

[Scarab]

I was under the impression that double doran's was needed with the IE build for sustain. If you're getting a bunch of life steam from your build path anyway, the extra 3% life steal isn't as valuable to you. Also, more attack speed = more everything, not just more crits, and you can get a zeal even earlier if you get bloodthirster first than if you get infinity edge first. None of that changes the fact that what needs to be compared is what you get

and when you get it

, not just what you get. You can certainly get bloodthirster earlier than you can get an infinity edge and what matters is what you can do during the window of time during which you're stronger because of your item choice.