Ikaruga Mafia (Game Over!)

[talah]

wb Sakura!

I'm assuming you posted 757/786 - what did you need catching up on? I'm sorta-kinda not caught up so maybe we can connect here?


@Mara - are you talking with me as well, or just dispensing advice?
By the way - how much have notscience and Wisdom posted so far? Cause... at least notscience might be able to read me, and he's in your hydra.

[Shiny Hydreigon]

I... am not talking to you at all...?

VOTE: jordan

I am going back here. I think its a good idea to leave you and aegor alone for the time being

[Shiny Hydreigon]

And, Nacho might as well place me in the exact same area as he put tso in, I guess because I dont really see what he is doing wrong, and would have probably reacted similarly

[talah]

Well.. Don't hold back on my account if you actually do want me to answer anything. I'm not exactly the shy retiring type.. am just really bad at dealing with walls and walls of wrong aimed at me.

Nacho hasn't posted enough to read yet. I think I should be able to get a decent idea if/when he posts enough. I don't really understand the push on Xayzeck, actually. Pretty null on TSO just for now though.

Thor's entrance is actually a bit niggly. Nati not wanting to engage directly might be null, but the casual vote-drop on to the largest wagon and then focusing attention elsewhere seems odd. You've played with him a bit, haven't you? I have once or twice and haven't gained a great deal of insight into where his scum and towngames might differ.

[The Most Curious Thing]

PTAP. Sorry, I'll be V/LA for another Day.

[The Most Curious Thing]

Er, lower-case day.

[T S O]

I'm really beginning to get irritated with this playerbase because to comment on a case or to do anything other than vaguely wander around in their own little minds wondering if they should vote to put someone to about L-fucking-9 appears to be anathema to them.

talah, I could not give a flying fuck if you don't understand the case. if you're town you should attempt to understand, then you -will- understand because it's not one bit complicated, and then you'll a) vote Xayzeck or b) explain why I'm wrong, though no-one's actually done this yet.

I'm not even going to start explaining the various problems I have with Rach's gameplay. Mastin, you're more fixated on getting a lynch of your choice today than I am. If you want my vote, then make a wallpost explaining why I'm wrong. You're bloody brilliant at those, it shouldn't be hard.

Thor can be town because no matter what his alignment is, he will still do more for town than what we're getting at present.

[T S O]

Where is TMCT? Where's Fear? Where's Pere?

Pere seems to be a townread to a lot of people, which I don't get. Someone walk me through that.

[ZZZX]

Where is TMCT? Where's Fear? Where's Pere?

Pere seems to be a townread to a lot of people, which I don't get. Someone walk me through that.

Isnt pere getting replaced thou?

[talah]

TMCT posted just above you, Pere is being replaced, Fear I don't know, I think the emogirl head last posted saying she was back from V/LA. I'm all for pushing lurkers but it doesn't look like it's going to be very effective (read:SSK).

On the other hand what I don't get is the push on what appears to be a very active player with cases like "this post is a scumpost" and "this is scum flailing" which are generally quite bullshit. So it's not the case I really don't understand as I've hardly paid attention to it because Xay seems at least town-ish to me. It's the *push* where he might actually prove useful in the longrun if he is town.

Can you summarise your slam-dunk case then? Like... Give me a few lines on why he's scum and I'll go back through your ISO and see if that makes sense or not. TIA.

[T S O]

Let's ignore the ins-and-outs of the case for a second (which you'll want to address) and focus on the aftermath. His reply was basically, "This ISN'T scummy, you're wrong, fuck shit ass" and I had and have no interest in getting into a "yes you're scum/no I'm not" argument with him because I don't want to convince him - regardless of his alignment, I waste my time by doing that.

Have you ever played with Xayzeck before? Have you done meta research on him? I've played with town-Xayzeck a few times now and I can see a lot of differences. Firstly, town Xayzeck

looks

town. There hasn't been one game I've played where anyone has actually scumread him. His motivations are very clearly pro-town, he's scumhunting, and so forth. Here? Nobody can say they have a strong townread on Xayzeck. A lot of people just don't have a read on him. That's not one bit like the town Xayzeck I know. Secondly, the posting style. I don't know why he's going for the shitty minimalistic posting style - I've never seen him do it as Town. There's a lot of points in this game where you look at what he's posting and you can see he's trying so damn hard to look like he doesn't give a shit and is posting stream-of-consciousness. But he does. I know that he's doing it because I've done it myself as scum. It's not easy to do if you're inexperienced at playing scum.

do you like me?

wow i said hi to you
and you look for someone else?
that's horrendously rude

Whenever he's accused of doing anything, he has a few rote responses and none of them are any good.

My play isn't the problem; you are.
This is my town meta, not my scum meta.
I'm starting to develop a scumread on you.

A lot of his statements ring so hollow when you actually compare them to his play. For instance, he tells us in #480 self-meta isn't worth much; yet he's using it as a way of defending himself in #303, so he clearly feels it is. Another time, he told me he wanted to interact with me because he was conflicted about his read on me - but he had voted me a few posts back with the reasoning: "You know what? Fuck you, TSO, Vote: TSO". He kinda reminds me of Syryana in Open 526, (though I know that's ancient for you), because he's not actually refuting any points, it's just deflection, deflection, deflection. And Syryana was scum that game.

It's one wall. That's it. And half of the wall is links or quotes.

[talah]

You're kind of late to the party.

I read half his ISO and all I see is him answering pretty much every question (and accusation, which seems to be the bulk recently) genuinely and with unaffected consistency. There doesn't seem anything contrived about it to me. Pretty much gels with the impression I already had. I also don't see the plan behind setting himself such a high level of openness when he'll have to keep it up and be caught out later.

So, yeah, not buying it.

[T S O]

I have sat here for 5 minutes straight typing and deleting responses because I just have no idea how we could see this so incredibly different. I knew that the aggressive way I made you do it would incline you towards disagreeing with me anyway, but this is over and above that.

Wow.

I can't really fault you, because you did respond unlike others, but I still heavily disagree with you. Answering questions does not a town player make, his openness is faked, etcetera. If you read "half of his ISO", which seems pointless, you'll see he's giving off the old "I don't give a fuck about votes" scum machismo while replying to people voting him with an incoherent "hahhAHHHAAhaHA".

[Spring Starflower]

xayzeck looks more dumb than scum. i wont vote him.

VOTE: jordan

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

um, so necro, please tell me why you think talah is scum again, not seeing it at this point. TIA.

[T S O]

xayzeck looks more dumb than scum. i wont vote him.

You see, this is the vibe people seem to be getting off Xayzeck - he's an idiot newbie but he's not actually scum. Thing is, Xayzeck

isn't a Village Idiot.

He looks Town when he plays Town, he doesn't act like an idiot. Newbie 1454 was a game I played with him where he was Town and I was scum. Read it. They're two different players.

[Xayzeck]

xayzeck looks more dumb than scum. i wont vote him.

You see, this is the vibe people seem to be getting off Xayzeck - he's an idiot newbie but he's not actually scum. Thing is, Xayzeck

isn't a Village Idiot.

He looks Town when he plays Town, he doesn't act like an idiot. Newbie 1454 was a game I played with him where he was Town and I was scum. Read it. They're two different players.

don't bring up my first game maybe?

because my play has changed a lot since then. I think the one with Oka and kyndy would be more relevant

[Spring Starflower]

xayzeck looks more dumb than scum. i wont vote him.

You see, this is the vibe people seem to be getting off Xayzeck - he's an idiot newbie but he's not actually scum. Thing is, Xayzeck

isn't a Village Idiot.

He looks Town when he plays Town, he doesn't act like an idiot. Newbie 1454 was a game I played with him where he was Town and I was scum. Read it. They're two different players.

ok bro im listening to ya.

do you have an example that is not newbie game? my policy is "Newbie games dont count". i trolled absolute shit in rome >sakura can vouch<

[Spring Starflower]

xayzeck looks more dumb than scum. i wont vote him.

You see, this is the vibe people seem to be getting off Xayzeck - he's an idiot newbie but he's not actually scum. Thing is, Xayzeck

isn't a Village Idiot.

He looks Town when he plays Town, he doesn't act like an idiot. Newbie 1454 was a game I played with him where he was Town and I was scum. Read it. They're two different players.

i read the game you linked. his iso wasn't very stellar either theres no way for me to compare stuff like that.

[Thor665]

aegor's play so far:

>join the necro derpwagon
>pawn off some non-game related Smurf as the reasoning (see: whatever the point of "they're a tumor" Smurf was)
>sit on a wagon that's clearly not going anywhere
>anything that's not tunneling on us are little Smurfy jabs (see: the dryfit attacks among other things)

a quick look at aegor's 41 post ISO shows this high signal: noise ratio.

so yeah, time to read like a boss, now, thor.

I refuse to read the rest of the game still.
But, yeah, sure, get a wagon on Aegor that's as big as the one on the other likely weak player, Xayzeck and I'll vote that one. I suspect the cases are fairly equivalent.

Thor, Nacho is V/LA atm so hes not lurking and yes I want to see more from him when he gets back.

When he gets off v/la he'll lurk. Prediction is in the pot

And, yeah, your current vote is beyond useless - are you seriously arguing with me that it isn't? You placed it saying 'well, until my top scumspect gets back guess I'll vote here' that's not even a pressure vote, and it's certainly not a vote that is going to get sheep.

I'm all for pushing lurkers but it doesn't look like it's going to be very effective (read:SSK).

The trick is you lynch the lurkers - that forces scum to not urk or get lynched. it won't affect the town lurkers, but that's the price town pays for having bad players in town.

On the other hand what I don't get is the push on what appears to be a very active player with cases like "this post is a scumpost" and "this is scum flailing" which are generally quite bullSmurf. So it's not the case I really don't understand as I've hardly paid attention to it because Xay seems at least town-ish to me. It's the *push* where he might actually prove useful in the longrun if he is town.

Who would you rather we lynch and why? This Day phase is already too long and full or lurk. We should get a claim in the next 48 hours to give us something worthwhile to talk about.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

I like me some thor...

[Nachomamma8]

Nobody can say they have a strong townread on Xayzeck. A lot of people just don't have a read on him.

I have a strong townread on Xayzeck, which is why you're voting him. I think just because a wagon exists on a person and just because people aren't screaming from the rooftops that he's obviously town yet doesn't mean that his posting hasn't been pretty town already.

Although: Mastin, what's your opinion on Xayzeck?

I don't know why he's going for the shitty minimalistic posting style - I've never seen him do it as Town.

Can you link one game where he hasn't held this style before? This game I literally just played with him is a game where he had that style, and also here and I don't even think his first newbie game had something that wasn't a "shitty minimalistic style".

There's a lot of points in this game where you look at what he's posting and you can see he's trying so damn hard to look like he doesn't give a shit and is posting stream-of-consciousness. But he does. I know that he's doing it because I've done it myself as scum. It's not easy to do if you're inexperienced at playing scum.

This doesn't actually mean anything, TSO.
Prove he's trying to look like he doesn't give a shit (what does this even mean? why isn't he just posting stream of consciousness?).

A lot of his statements ring so hollow when you actually compare them to his play. For instance, he tells us in #480 self-meta isn't worth much; yet he's using it as a way of defending himself in #303, so he clearly feels it is.

This point could be passable. Why do you think the contradiction came about from scumXayzeck aka what motivation does he have in lying?

Another time, he told me he wanted to interact with me because he was conflicted about his read on me - but he had voted me a few posts back with the reasoning: "You know what? Fuck you, TSO, Vote: TSO".

???
I don't know why this matters to be honest, unless "fuck you TSO" is somehow a declaration of being 100% confident in his read on you.

[Nachomamma8]

Hey, Thor!
I posted something, you should sheep me!

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

oh, there is the nacho that I am used...

[Nachomamma8]

The Nacho that's pegged scum and is generally being a wonderful beacon of towniness?
Why aren't you sheeping me then?