Organic Chemistry [GAME OVER]

[Jingle]

Notedump/readslist. I'm not formatting shit because I'm feeling lazy.

ac1983fan (Bipolarchemist)- BPC gut towned, AC replaced in and sheeped the wagon on us. Not caught up yet, need more information.
Doduo (notscience + Marquis)- gut town. Frustration reads genuine but might be null. Feels incredibly open.
Majiffy- Town. Open about the Doduo policy lynch in the beginning, despite it bringing a lot of attention to him. His attempt to lynch for reasons he can't discuss ITT also screams town to me, especially after having Doduo all but confirm that there is reasoning to be found there. (On a later day. We need to remember this one.)
ZZZX- Fuck if I know.
Titus- The obsession with Ethyl, the translations early on, the fact that she isn't tunneling on only one player all makes me think Town. I'm not good at reading Titus.
vezokpiraka- claimed mason, treat as town. Oddly, this is a large part of the reason I've been preoccupied with setup spec.
mastin2- Scum.
MTD- Null. His focus this game has largely been on himself. 1237 makes me think he might be town though. He played devil's advocate against himself, which is intriguing.
Guilty Gunsmith (Snork + AngryPidgeon)- Town.
Speedy Saki (Saki + Metal Sonic)- I have no problems with outsourcing this read to Majiffy. When sthar8 gets back, he might have some more poignant observations.
pirate mollie- town.
PeregrineV- Hasn't said much related to the game, but what he has said I like. I also mostly agree with his townreads, so I'm leaning town here.
Perpetual Nonsense (Bert and SXTLHGaiden)- See vezok. I'm not sure about the validity of the mason claim, but it seems like an odd fakeclaim as town.
Bulbazak (zabriel)- Replace into nothing, no content as yet.
Wickedestjr- Scum. His wagon didn't hit resistance, but rather collapsed because there were a bunch of people pushing counterwagons. He never did anything to mitigate his early scummy behavior, and still isn't getting attention.
beastcharizard- This feels like beast from Enemy of my Enemy. He's misreading things and tunneling on people I think are town. I can see the thought process though. Town.


Setupwise, if there is a protective/inventor of protectives then masons are incredibly powerful this game. Balance wise, there is probably some manner of roleblocker to stop us from voltroning up a universal townread and letting one man have all of that power. On the other hand, once one mason is dead, that a protection inventor would basically be another soft investigative. I think, for N1 at least, spreading out town power between the masons and strong townreads is probably a good plan. Should a roleblocker flip, especially if we have evidence suggesting a protective role or a protective inventor, then we should definitely decide as a town on one member of the masonry/universal townread to give all of the power to, and then allow the protective inventor to investigate someone by giving them a protect and then seeing if the voltron townie dies.

[vezokpiraka]

Perpetual Nonsense (Bert and SXTLHGaiden)- See vezok. I'm not sure about the validity of the mason claim, but it seems like

an odd fakeclaim as town.

Dat. scumslip.

Thank for confirming us as town if anyone doubted it (!?) but you can go die now.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

I don't think that is a slip. Let me try and actually get an opinion on the wall though.

[Titus]

@Jingke, nontunneling is a sign I have been invaded by bodysnatchers, not alignment.

[Lying Cat]

Perpetual Nonsense (Bert and SXTLHGaiden)- See vezok. I'm not sure about the validity of the mason claim, but it seems like

an odd fakeclaim as town.

Dat. scumslip.

Thank for confirming us as town if anyone doubted it (!?) but you can go die now.

Reaction reads as town. Definitely masons.

Also, it was a hydra slip, not a scumslip. Sorry Anti. I did meant to post that in the hydra account.

[Lying Cat]

Titus, what I meant was that you appear to be jumping around to all of the different places in your thought process. Your reads are actually evolving somewhat. Your tunnels shift from player to player. You're tunneling, but you're not using that as an excuse not to post thoughts on other players and weigh in. It seems more like towntunneling than scumtunneling to me.

AP/Snork, that isn't a wall. That is a nice little hedge. I doubt I'm going to be in a walling mood this dayphase though.

[Snork]

this thread needs more sthar8

[Lying Cat]

Sthar8's busy doing three people's work and trying to get the police to actually do their job, in addition to some fucked up personal shit. You'll have to settle for me.

[Snork]

Sthar8's busy doing three people's work and trying to get the police to actually do their job, in addition to some fucked up personal shit. You'll have to settle for me.

tell him i wish him luck with his stuff. i like you just fine. but abusing sthar amuses me and i miss that right now.

[ZZZX]

I'm kinda very: ill today so I'll post later

[Wickedestjr]

So you are fairly confident that one or two of the two players in question are scum. In a game where ~24% of the players are scum, why are you not pursuing the one (or two) out of two option? That seems like a good chance of catching scum on day 1. Never in a mafia game have I ever called an exchange t v s, so maybe I just misunderstand your perspective here, but I am curious as to why you have not pursued a Majiffy or mastin2 lynch. Reskimming through your iso, it seems that you have done little to strengthen your reads on them.

You have established that you think Majiffy is more likely to be scum than mastin2 and even proposed a scum team of majiffy/vezok/gs/saki earlier. However, your only two votes since taking these stances have been for Vezok and Lying Cat. The Vezok vote had zero support IIRC and the Lying Cat vote was never really explained AFAICS. Almost like you are avoiding voting for Majiffy, but I cannot figure out exactly why. Are you and Majiffy scum together? That might explain the initial t v s or s v s read in question (i.e. if you knew Majiffy was scum and it couldn't be t v t).

I've said this like 10 times. I'd be voting Majiffy if the support was there. It isn't. I'm voting Lying Cat because my townreads are on it. :nod:

I just reread your entire isolation. Several times you mention voting LC because your town reads voted for him - I knew that already but that is not good reasoning on its own. There is only one instance where you mention your belief that there is not enough support for a Majiffy vote, post 1436. I'll admit that I missed the two sentence explanation in post 1436, but I still have issue with this, for several reasons;

• There are people that town read Majiffy, but it's not like everybody town reads him. ZZZX, mastin2, MTD, PN, and Bulbazak are not town reading him atm (IIRC). Majiffy was also voting for himself earlier.
  
• You are never going to create a bandwagon if you never vote him. How do you know a bandwagon won't form if you never try?
  
• I reread your iso a second time looking for your reasoning as to why you suspect Majiffy and... there really isn't any reasoning. I have no idea why you suspect Majiffy. Unless I missed a post, you have not described this read. You say that you want Majiffy lynched, but you can't act like you've been trying or you know it won't work if you haven't provided reasoning.
  
• Voting somebody just because your town reads are is anti-town and lazy. With five or six days left, there's no need imo. You really haven't displayed much initiative here - that makes it hard for me to town read you.

More later

[Lying Cat]

Will do, and thanks for the thought Snork.

In other news, Wicked continues to vote MTD despite having mastin as his biggest scumread and MTD as nullscum. He mentions mastin constantly. His last mention of MTD, who he's voting, is to shoot holes in a scumteam with both him and MTD and before that it was explaining why he wasn't sure on MTD's alignment but was on mastin's. This is not the activity of a town player. There are no cases. There is no attempt to further read MTD. There is nothing being done to ensure his vote actually matters. It looks like he's trying to be off wagon when we flip town, but he doesn't know what to do with himself.

Also, the above post is fucking hilarious. He's also not doing anything to push through either of his supposed preferred lynches. The hypocrisy stinks of scum. Seriously, why is this not still a wagon?

[Lying Cat]

Shit I meant to link to 1390 and 553 there. My bad.

[Titus]

Sthar8's busy doing three people's work and trying to get the police to actually do their job, in addition to some fucked up personal shit. You'll have to settle for me.

Yeah, the cops don't really investigate that much. Most of what they do is DUI and rescuing cats out of trees. TV makes cops look much better than they are.

[Majiffy]

Also, the above post is fucking hilarious. He's also not doing anything to push through either of his supposed preferred lynches. The hypocrisy stinks of scum. Seriously, why is this not still a wagon?

Idk are you voting Titus?

[Wickedestjr]

Yeah, you have 1 townread and one scum read. This looks designed not to piss anyone off or to take any strong position.

Those reads weren't meant to impress by any means. It's not designed to please, it's designed to display my thoughts. I'm always cautious as town, but on day 1, in a game where I know almost nobody and haven't gotten the chance to really focus on anything (other than one read through of the thread that I just finished), I'm going to be especially hesitant. Would you prefer that I act more confident than I actually am? Please trust me when I say it takes me some time but I will catch scum eventually, like I almost always do.

[Wickedestjr]

Marquis please respond to this;

and contrast those with 1323, where he forgets that he's not supposed to know i'm town

Can you please explain what you mean by this? I have read post 1323 several times and I don't understand how you're drawing this conclusion.

Explain what Marquis pointed out please.

I'm not sure what you're referring to here. Sorry.

Speedy Saki - Something feels off.

this is the saddest read i have ever seen

It might help if you addressed post 1390. Again, this read is not meant to impress. I just didn't retain much after cramming the last 25-30 pages into two/three days of reading - but I remembered a weird gut vibe.

[Wickedestjr]

Lying Cat, I apologize in advance if you are town and put serious time/effort into this post, but it is COMPLETE GARBAGE. I would appreciate if you did the following;
-read the thread (maybe

then

you would notice that I'm not voting MTD even though your entire post revolves around the assumption that I am)
-meta'd me (maybe

then

you would see how closely my play here mirrors my play in past games)
-considered the fact that I may be town, you may be wrong (*gasp* ), and remove your foolish tunnel vision goggles so you could actually start contributing something valuable for once
-learn to make a case that doesn't

absolutely suck

In other news, Wicked continues to vote MTD despite having mastin as his biggest scumread and MTD as nullscum. He mentions mastin constantly.

ACTUALLY,

I'm currently voting mastin2

.

His last mention of MTD, who he's voting, is to shoot holes in a scumteam with both him and MTD

I NEVER did this.

There are no cases.

So if I have never posted any cases then what do you call this post;

Spoiler: Case

Yeah I think I worded that poorly. I'll try again, explaining the situation step by step in the Adrian Monk black and white flashback style...


Here's what happened...

I post and pretty much everyone thinks I'm scum. = (There was no opposition to my bandwagon at this point).

Enter mastin at this time. He posts a list of the players that strongly implies I am his 2nd strongest suspect or at least one of his strongest suspects. He can have me as 2nd strongest with ease because of all the support my bandwagon had. = (I think I've adequately explained how the list has an order to it, let me know otherwise).

I reference a game where I was town, played similarly to here, and was strongly and incorrectly accused by mastintown. = (mastin was 100% certain that I was scum in that game).

mastinscum realizes that he's made a mistake. He should have been hesitant to suspect me, but his list demonstrates no such hesitance.
He realizes that he should have learned from his past experience.

mastinscum now starts to pretend that he remembered/considered the game, because he knows that he should have. = (He acknowledges the other game for the first time here.)

I am asleep / at school not posting or doing anything to change mastin's mind about me.

mastin readjusts his read on me to reflect the lesson he should have learned from the other game. = (He describes his read on me as wishy-washyneutral here, a subtle but noticeable change from his read here or here.)


The evidence that this is what actually happened;
mastin2 now claims that he never had me as his 2nd strongest suspect even though his previous posts suggest otherwise. He knows that, if he was town, he should have been considering the other game and his 2nd strongest suspect read doesn't make sense if he had been considering it. So he acts like he never took that stance in the first place, but I think it's clear that he did.

There is no attempt to further read MTD.

I questioned MTD when I WAS voting him. But if I WAS still voting him, how would you expect me to further my read on him when he's not even here?

It looks like he's trying to be off wagon when we flip town, but he doesn't know what to do with himself.

Long before your bandwagon formed, I said that your reaction to my page 5/6 vote seemed townish. Why can't that be the reason why I've stayed off your bandwagon? Of all the things I've wrongly been accused of in my mafia playing career, this "staying off the bandwagon to avoid responsibility" style accusation is in the top 3 for most irritating of my common accusations. As town, I have a tendency to be very independent - I decide who's scum on my own and I couldn't care less who the popular choices are.

He's also not doing anything to push through either of his supposed preferred lynches.

There are two blatantly obvious reasons for this;
-The two players MTD and mastin2 are not present at the moment and have not been recently.
-I just finished catching up, just like you. Should I be calling you scum for waiting until now to explain your suspicion of me?

Seriously, why is this not still a wagon?

There never was a good point against me and there isn't now. This is only the second post that attempts to frame me as scum despite half the players suspecting me. I'm playing the same way I always play as town, if people bothered to meta me. I'm almost always town, yet I receive similar accusations every single time.

Spoiler: TL;DR

[Wickedestjr]

I am extremely frustrated/angered by Lying Cat's post 1586.

Can somebody please confirm that I'm not crazy/biased in thinking his post was terrible? Even if I was voting MTD right now, those points would hold no weight.


(More later) but I am admittedly pissed off right now and taking a break from mafia for the rest of the night

[Guilty Gunsmith]

I thought it was, but it seems like I'm the only one townreading you and I don't understand why.

Snork

[Titus]

So you are fairly confident that one or two of the two players in question are scum. In a game where ~24% of the players are scum, why are you not pursuing the one (or two) out of two option? That seems like a good chance of catching scum on day 1. Never in a mafia game have I ever called an exchange t v s, so maybe I just misunderstand your perspective here, but I am curious as to why you have not pursued a Majiffy or mastin2 lynch. Reskimming through your iso, it seems that you have done little to strengthen your reads on them.

You have established that you think Majiffy is more likely to be scum than mastin2 and even proposed a scum team of majiffy/vezok/gs/saki earlier. However, your only two votes since taking these stances have been for Vezok and Lying Cat. The Vezok vote had zero support IIRC and the Lying Cat vote was never really explained AFAICS. Almost like you are avoiding voting for Majiffy, but I cannot figure out exactly why. Are you and Majiffy scum together? That might explain the initial t v s or s v s read in question (i.e. if you knew Majiffy was scum and it couldn't be t v t).

I've said this like 10 times. I'd be voting Majiffy if the support was there. It isn't. I'm voting Lying Cat because my townreads are on it. :nod:

I just reread your entire isolation. Several times you mention voting LC because your town reads voted for him - I knew that already but that is not good reasoning on its own. There is only one instance where you mention your belief that there is not enough support for a Majiffy vote, post 1436. I'll admit that I missed the two sentence explanation in post 1436, but I still have issue with this, for several reasons;

• There are people that town read Majiffy, but it's not like everybody town reads him. ZZZX, mastin2, MTD, PN, and Bulbazak are not town reading him atm (IIRC). Majiffy was also voting for himself earlier.
  
• You are never going to create a bandwagon if you never vote him. How do you know a bandwagon won't form if you never try?
  
• I reread your iso a second time looking for your reasoning as to why you suspect Majiffy and... there really isn't any reasoning. I have no idea why you suspect Majiffy. Unless I missed a post, you have not described this read. You say that you want Majiffy lynched, but you can't act like you've been trying or you know it won't work if you haven't provided reasoning.
  
• Voting somebody just because your town reads are is anti-town and lazy. With five or six days left, there's no need imo. You really haven't displayed much initiative here - that makes it hard for me to town read you.

More later

I'm pretty sure (unfortunately) after the scrapple Mastin and Majiffy had quite a few of those players are reading Mastin as town or at least wanting to lynch him.
I have no intentions of trying to drag my townreads away from a wagon they all agree on unless I have evidence they are wrong. I don't. I also, while I believe I have caught the scumteam, I'm not certain.
Why are you so interested in having a wagon off Lying Cat? Wouldn't it make more sense to actually try to push your own counterwagon to convince people.

I have enough reason for my read right now on day 1. There's something off in the interactions in the pools I have cited. When I'm certain I have scum, you'll hear about it.

Right now, all I see is a man desperate not to have Lying Cat lynched.

[Perpetual Nonsense]

Hell no! I tend to seek control of a thread as scum. Here, I can't bc I don't have the game solved.

I also, while I believe I have caught the scumteam, I'm not certain.

[Titus]

PN, what's the problem? There's absolutely no need to be a bully and throw my weight around until I am certain I've got scum. I'm not. I got a nice shiny pool I like.

[Majiffy]

Hell no! I tend to seek control of a thread as scum. Here, I can't bc I don't have the game solved.

I also, while I believe I have caught the scumteam, I'm not certain.

You do note the 1200 posts between, right?

[Perpetual Nonsense]

ou do note the 1200 posts between, right?

Yes, including where you 'wanted' yourself lynched. She hasn't taken control of the thread yet in a discussion-oriented kinda way.