Mini 1549 - House Party Mafia (Party Crashed)

[ActionDan]

town power wasn't very good at all?

even 3 goons vs jailkeeper/rber/1-shot commuter/friendly neighbor/day neighborizer I'd say is scumsided if 10:3.

[mastin2]

So as part of my efforts to aim for the new professor mafia, I figured I'd try and give feedback, here.

And the game where I had just about the most hostile post-game rant is just about the best place to truly start with the most laid-back casual take on it.

ActionDan:

I realize that you were obvtown in the neighborhood. I realize that you were scumhunting well. But none of it came across in-thread, and ultimately, that helped contribute to the game-winning mislynch on BBMolla. I really, really think you need to be far more active in your games. Even if you're on the right track, it doesn't do much good if nobody remembers you're in the game.

BBMolla:

I don't have much feedback to give you, man. You used your role perfectly. You were obviously town. You had solid reads, and put in significant effort to work with others. All-in-all, I never really got the suspicion around you, since you were playing rock-solidly. I really think that this might be one of the few times where it is almost entirely not on your end, but on theirs.

BROseidon:

This is something that I don't talk about much, but...you're actually far more like me than you know. I'm not sure how much I'm allowed/comfortable with explaining, since it goes into a deeply personal subject. (One that I'm flat-out considering writing an MD article about, but which...well, isn't meant as an article, so much as a ramble about my own experiences which I hope can desperately touch those who I know to be like myself.) To put it simply...you have a mask. That's the best term to describe it, am I right? A mask you put on as a mafia player.

A mask of confidence, hiding the wall of self-doubt and despair behind it. Feel free to correct me on that if I'm wrong. But with the aid of time and cooling down, that's what I now see when looking here. But let me tell you this. If I'm even remotely correct about it...trust me. Letting out the true you progressively will make your life in mafia games much, much easier.

When I first started playing, the true me I thought I was I hated, I actively tried to hide. Because what I thought was the true me sucked, whereas when I wore the mask of that confident player, I became someone who people actually followed, and my reads seemed to be more accurate. For a couple of years, that worked, but I began to notice: there was a steady decline in my townplay, and a breaking even in my scumgame. Because that mask was still just that: a mask. I kept using it hoping that part of the mask would be real, and to some extent, it had become so. But most of the me in games was still a lie, and...well, it was progressively becoming more stressful to maintain.

Accepting who I really am, very very slowly, has actually been upping the quality of my play, as silly as that sounds. How could someone wrecked with consistent self-doubt and such suddenly be MORE town and more followed from it? Because it connects better with others. Being honest about yourself is a key piece in what I see as doing good in a game. If you're feeling an emotion, covering that emotion up is sabotaging (not enhancing) your play. You don't have to consistently doubt yourself, even if that's how you feel. But a simple, "I've wavered a bit, but overall still believe this" will do wonders in improving everything. (Granted, a bit more doubt in your case might be helpful. )

Maybe this sounds massively off-base and I've rambled for nothing. But if not, then...at least try to open up a bit. It sounds stupid. But showing a bit of vulnerability can help to emphasize the things you're strong in. Not only to others, but also yourself.
Either way, though. If your confidence is faked or if it was real. You yourself admitted that this was not a good game. So even if all the above is worthless, keep in mind the important bit, there. That you need to know why you didn't have a good game. All the above is just my best guess as to the cause. It's really only you who can truly figure it out. And if you don't try to figure it out, then you're resigning yourself to never escape from the rut you're in. Apologies that this is the best I have to offer.

Desperado:

You did fairly decently, with the dramonic scumread and Surye scumread and not getting caught up in a Mastin scumread, but not perfectly. I'm not sure there's any feedback I can give you to improve, though.

dramonic:

Well, what can I say. You played well enough to make people think you were town. I guess the feedback I can offer is that while your bussing was highly effective, you should cut down on it in the future.

ETL:

I feel like I should have some masterful feedback to give you. That there should be a lot of words said to you about what you can do better, and what you did well again. But I can't think of anything to say. (Okay, partially laziness for a 3-page iso, but still. ) You were good in a fair number of ways, but lacked in some others. The best overall guess I'd have to say for what you need most is to slow down in your posting, but I think that's something you already know. That if you take a step back from things and resume with a clear head, you can see things far more accurately and clearly, realizing who is and isn't scum.

Guyett:

If you scumread me, I'm town. Not much more to say, regrettably. We still need to hydra, since I think you do have a lot of talent that often is best shown when you're hydraing.

Drunken Lies overall:

I think that when you're both around, you two are actually a highly-effective hydra. You work well together, and while you don't perfectly synchronize, I consider this to be a GOOD thing. Your overall reads come across not as dissonating with one another, with you sabotaging one another, but rather, of augmenting each other.
Perhaps not always correctly, but I feel like that with some refinement, you two together can be an absolute badass hydra.

Espeonage:

Well, your reads were spot-on, surprisingly, but...well. You were never considered town by a large portion of the town. You didn't end up mislynched, but were among the leading candidates. I think I can best describe it this way--your reads ended up right, but they were reached in such weird ways that everyone thought you massively wrong (even scummy) for having them. So I'd say you could improve in your communication skills. Also, in your posting frequency; you were among the least-prominent posters, and that hurt you big time in the long-run.

Majiffy:

I'm not sure there's anything I can say to you that will help. You and I basically had the same flaws and strengths throughout the whole game, and were massively in-synch. (Maybe that we someday should hydra?)

On me:

I really, really can't tell what the heck you saw as being scum in me. I will fully, fully admit to screwups as town, especially in post-game. But even on D1, I was getting scumread for doing things that were either null or town, as later proved. I wasn't acting differently; I was being my normal self. Succinct, yes, but still distinctly me, Mastin, posting. That said, I did screw up massively with SC--and I learned from that. (Now that all three are over, I might as well reveal the full story: I mislynched Windblown in a Fire/Ice game. I mislynched SC here. I defended MafiaSSK as if he was a mislynch in Xenosaga. All three happened within 48 hours of one another. 0 for 3 in three different games utterly wrecked my confidence in myself.)

I was too confident, too arrogant, when I had nothing tangible. And that is my weakspot as a player--I'm really good at conveying things between others, but kinda suck at conveying things that I myself have seen. A better approach would be to have noted the SC scumread and explained it to others...but to not have pushed it as hard as I did. Even here, I'm not properly conveying that. Basically...I should have been there pushing it, but being upfront about my lack of ability to explain it, and honest about that weakening an otherwise-strong read. If I had done that rather than insisting it go through, then my thoughts not only would have been clearer to others, but also myself, since in hindsight, I was acting in blindness as if I could see.

Which carried into my Espeonage misread and BRO read, too. I got too hung up, caught up, on that rather than focusing on my feelings. Basically, on D1, I was too emotionally-invested, not distanced enough. On D3, I was too distanced, with not enough emotion behind me. I lacked balance this game, which if I had been in my element fully, I would have had.

...But all that said, this is still just my best guess at what went wrong, given that I still really have no clue what you were all ranting about in regards to me. I played a decent game, with decent reads, but far from perfect.

StrangerCoug:

Really should have advice for the guy that I mislynched, but since it was basically all on my end rather than yours, I'm not sure what I can really say. Maybe that your play was a bit OGMUSy and that you might wanna keep an eye on that, but that's about all I can really think about. :/

Windblown:

I felt you did good. Definitely wish you were still around to play!

Surye:

Not sure what I can really advise for you to do. You were in a tough position this game, and I think you did great given the circumstances.

Not sure I can give helpful advice to Titus or Jake, though.

On the setup:

Dan's right. It's slightly scumsided. And AP, I really, really, really think you underestimate the value of the scum having a safeclaim of a town investigative power role, in this case being hider. You can say all you like that there's no town roles confirming its existence, but that doesn't contribute to the strength of the claim. You can say that the town can think it to be a fakeclaim, but that it's a real role can become evident fairly obviously by how the scum handles the role. Yes, can still be fakeclaiming...but you should never design a setup which relies on the town thinking a scum realclaiming a role is fakeclaiming that role. Because often, they won't. Sure, a mafia tracker can be lynched. Sure, a mafia watcher can be lynched. Sure, mafia JK can be lynched. Sure, mafia rolecop can be lynched.

But I learned in MASTIN Mafia (my mini normal) that an actual mafia sane cop won't be, just like an actual mafia hider won't be. I can near-guarantee you that in 95% of games, you're going to get an identical outcome, where the town is not going to lynch the mafia hider. It is not a weak role. It is a role that...well. Let me put it this way. The role of mafia hider is far, far, FAR more than the sum of its parts. So while the parts say it's a weak scum power, especially with no way of it being confirmed...well. It changes the way scum think in a game. And that altered thought process fundamentally alters how they plan things, and it shows in their actions.
Scum fakeclaiming a role rarely have that fakeclaim in mind from the beginning of the game.
Scum realclaiming a role have that fakeclaim in mind, but often don't commit to it from the beginning.
Scum safeclaiming their real role might not have had it in mind from the beginning, but it influenced them far more than any real role ever could.

That's just the hider. I think the overall setup was also scumleaned, because scum could stop death with coordination, whereas the town's ability to stop death was largely interfered by natural town dissonance. Scum don't have omnipotence, but have extra clarity on setups. Town don't have omnipotence, so are going to be paranoid of other town, as you saw with the JK-RB. Yeah, AP game. But bluntly, if you didn't expect for the JK and RB to suspect each other, you'd be making a HUGE moderator oversight, since again, the roles are going to inherently be against each other. So however balanced the setup may have been in the numbers, it was never going to end as anything but a scum win in practice, simply because towns don't think the way moderators do and the setup as it is required them to in order for it to be balanced.

On play:

...But that doesn't mean the scum didn't earn the win. Okay, yeah. They kinda lurked a fair amount. They weren't really truly devoted to the game. But they played well overall. The town might have had some members playing decently or even well, but was essentially ripping themselves to shreds. So the setup is not to blame entirely for the loss; the players in the game have just as much a part in that. (I'd say 35% setup, 50% bad town play, and the remaining 15% on scum skill, approximately.)

Sorry if this still seems biased. I did try.

[Jake from State Farm]

Nothing for me?

[mastin2]

Not sure I can give helpful advice to Titus or Jake, though.

^

I mean, I guess I can try, but really, the only times I'm good at giving advice to scum are when I was there beside them as their buddy to intimately witness their tactics. As town, I only see that post-game, which creates a slight disconnect.

[Jake from State Farm]

Oh missed that lol

Thanks

[Majiffy]

A MastinJiffy hydra would be much fun.

Also I successfully won (at least in spirit; it came down to 1v1v1 and I was hammered by the losing-townie because I was new) an offsite game with a hider claim inspired by this.

[dramonic]

[AngryPidgeon]

A MastinJiffy hydra would be much fun.

I need a hydra buddy that I can just be condescending with and call everyone retards.

wink wink

[Guyett]

A MastinJiffy hydra would be much fun.

I need a hydra buddy that I can just be condescending with and call everyone retards.

wink wink

pipe down you retard

[dramonic]

A MastinJiffy hydra would be much fun.

I need a hydra buddy that I can just be condescending with and call everyone retards.

wink wink

I'm pretty sure I called half the playerlist retarded at some point

[Titus]

Mastin, I absolutely disagree with rarely having a fakeclaim in mind. I have fakeclaims in my head as scum from the moment I see my role pm and I am caught up. Sometimes before that and I play accordingly.

A Mastin Majiffy hydra should be called Majestic.

Oh and AP I can so call everyone stupid. You just have to take point in being a good scumhunter.

[Equinox]

Mine?