Tales of You (Endgame)

[Tammy]

Although this game might just be the game that teaches me emotional detachment.

[BROseidon]

Like, I said you were playing badly.
Your posting post-game explicitly said that your early game was shit.
So I was explicitly saying something that

you agree with being true

.

'In retrospect' my ass. I knew I was correct at the time.

The thing about it is that you're continuing to always think the problem lies outside. You're continuing to think that it was something I did, when it was something you did at the time. Which you now know. But in the future, in the middle of the game, you're not going to act any differently. You're still going to think that it's something "I" (it can be anyone) did, rather than something you're doing. And when that game's over, you're going to go once again saying "In hindsight, it was on my end, but I had no way of knowing it was at the time".

Except yes you do.
By actually learning.
Like, this reminds me of the lectures I was on the receiving end of in my 2009 play.
When I actually started listening to them (took 'til 2011), I became a better player, because I actually DID stop making the same mistakes.

I think we're talking past each other.

Of course from your PoV you knew you were right, because you could read your PM.

I couldn't, and I had an erroneous read.

However, given my erroneous read, the way in which you were dealing with me felt like, to me, scum trying to shake attention using AtE that's fairly potent. The only way to have prevented the situation from my end would have been to have had a correct read there. Not quite sure what I should have picked up on in regards to that, and I'm not doing a reread to figure it out. Probably something positionality isn't alignment indicative before you have flips something something, not sure.

[mastin2]

Like...I have self-confidence issues.
All the damn time.

But I don't lie about them and put on a mask of arrogance.
(When I am arrogant, it's because...I'm being arrogant. And as soon as I realize I'm arrogant, I back down slightly.)
I tell the truth.

It doesn't keep people from following me.
It doesn't alienate them from me.
It gets them to pay attention to me and respect my honesty, and be willing to help me out.
For the betterment of both.

A healthy town attitude is not to think you're being attacked.
Especially not over things you've done that are objectively true in hindsight and subjectively true to the person saying them.
A healthy town attitude is to realize the intention behind the 'attack'. And in this game? That was town players, correctly calling you out on having wrong reads, trying to help you get better reads...yet instead of being open to their help, you used it to further antagonize both, poisoning the well further.

You say you think we might be similar, BRO.
And I think so, too.
But I've actually had experience with this reform.
Sometimes the message may be delivered too bluntly.
Sometimes the message may be delivered too profanely.
But that doesn't mean the message itself is toxic; the message is truthful no matter how much you don't want it to be.

[Red Gyarados]

HEY MUFFIN.

AP USED THAT EXACT ENTRANCE, NEARLY VERBATIM, IN A GAME WHERE HE WAS TOWN. AND WHERE MASTIN WAS SCUM AND PUSHED HIM FOR IT.

SO TELL ME MORE ABOUT HOW IT'S "NOT A TOWN ENTRANCE"

Still not a town entrance.

[mastin2]

Of course from your PoV you knew you were right, because you could read your PM.
I couldn't, and I had an erroneous read.

And yet, I did my damnedest to communicate that you were wrong. I built as many bridges as I could; you were the one burning them down. Because you took it internally. You thought I was attacking your character. When what I was doing was, simply, reaching out to you. I tried to understand where you were coming from. You never reciprocated. I saw no effort to try and understand where I was coming from...and also no effort on your end to explain where you were coming from. Again because you wouldn't let me. You closed yourself off. And took things personally.

Whereas if you had opened up and

let us in

, the whole crisis would have been averted.

The only way to have prevented the situation from my end would have been to have had a correct read there.

This is the problem. You think there was no way to prevent it on your end, and it was purely on my end that it could be prevented. If you actually read my posting...you'll realize I changed approaches, multiple fucking times, in an attempt to do exactly that: prevent it. I put time and CONSIDERABLE effort into trying to bridge the gap and get you to open up...

...But because you thought and still think it's not something you could have stopped, that it wasn't something of your doing...that was impossible.

You can see it throughout nearly the whole game, even.
I was open. Rancid was open. Katsuki was open. RG was open. LB was open. Heck, Mara/Orc was open, too.
The neighborhood was shut.
In more ways than one.

The players who were most accurate were the players who let others in and tried to get into others.
Efforts which you're saying you think not possible on your end.

Except they are.
And they work.

The closest time you've gotten to reading me correctly was in the Xeno games...where you let that happen.
The games where you've read me wrong are the games where you've closed yourself off from others.

You just need to see it and recognize it.
Not in hindsight.
Hindsight's crap.

In the damn game. Pay attention to it.
And I can guarantee you.
GUARANTEE you.

That it'll go better for you than it did here.
Don't get self-absorbed.

[BROseidon]

Thanks for the advice, mastin. I didn't see it that way, and that sort of recalubration will probably do me some good. I'll try to open up more if/when I come off hiatus.

I'm on my plane now, will catch you all later.

[Katsuki]

I feel like I do. I mean in the game Muffin and I talked about what I thought of how he comes across and I feel like I understand him a little better. I'll never feel like insulting people is all right, but I really don't think right after the game ended, a game that was pretty frustrating for most of us, where we just lost after, most of us having shit reads, is really a productive time to start pointing fingers over who was more toxic etc. The majority of us were, we can do better and should.

So then why not tell katsuki to stop it when the first thing he does post-game is come in and bm me?

I haven't used a single swear thoguh

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I, for one, enjoyed this game! Thank you cabd for running it!

...Yes I was in this game... for like a few mins.

[fferyllt]

Of course from your PoV you knew you were right, because you could read your PM.
I couldn't, and I had an erroneous read.

And yet, I did my damnedest to communicate that you were wrong. I built as many bridges as I could; you were the one burning them down. Because you took it internally. You thought I was attacking your character. When what I was doing was, simply, reaching out to you. I tried to understand where you were coming from. You never reciprocated. I saw no effort to try and understand where I was coming from...and also no effort on your end to explain where you were coming from. Again because you wouldn't let me. You closed yourself off. And took things personally.

Whereas if you had opened up and

let us in

, the whole crisis would have been averted.

The only way to have prevented the situation from my end would have been to have had a correct read there.

This is the problem. You think there was no way to prevent it on your end, and it was purely on my end that it could be prevented. If you actually read my posting...you'll realize I changed approaches, multiple fucking times, in an attempt to do exactly that: prevent it. I put time and CONSIDERABLE effort into trying to bridge the gap and get you to open up...

...But because you thought and still think it's not something you could have stopped, that it wasn't something of your doing...that was impossible.

You can see it throughout nearly the whole game, even.
I was open. Rancid was open. Katsuki was open. RG was open. LB was open. Heck, Mara/Orc was open, too.
The neighborhood was shut.
In more ways than one.

The players who were most accurate were the players who let others in and tried to get into others.
Efforts which you're saying you think not possible on your end.

Except they are.
And they work.

The closest time you've gotten to reading me correctly was in the Xeno games...where you let that happen.
The games where you've read me wrong are the games where you've closed yourself off from others.

You just need to see it and recognize it.
Not in hindsight.
Hindsight's crap.

In the damn game. Pay attention to it.
And I can guarantee you.
GUARANTEE you.

That it'll go better for you than it did here.
Don't get self-absorbed.

The
Mastin as you know, Bro wasn't the only player who interpreted what you meant as reach-outs to be attacks. There is probably a takeaway in that for you as well.

[mastin2]

Mastin as you know, Bro wasn't the only player who interpreted what you meant as reach-outs to be attacks. There is probably a takeaway in that for you as well.

Yes because I was undergoing a mental breakdown and recognized and acknowledged as much. Even when alive, I flat-out said that I wasn't communicating it as effectively as I could be...but that I was trying all the same.

[Cabd]

Fwiw, I'm leaving the tales flavor alone for a while until Xillia two releaseds in the US.

There's a few less role madnessy ideas running around with my brain right now.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

On the dead threads: I expected a lot less cheering. Sorry for letting everyone down and lynching you Mastin. Probably one of my worst games on site. And sorry Ffery for being rude to you overall. Mastin's a great sport. Just finished reading the dead thread. Also, Tammy, I read your neighborhood with Penguin and I realized why you were finding me so scummy. So, my push on Katsuki was atrocious. I just stopped enjoying this game and wanted it to be over quickly. And thanks Mastin for cheering us on in the dead thread. When I first clicked on the topic, I was thinking more along the lines of dead townies making fun of us but your posts were nothing like that at all.

[Cabd]

If it helps, I was making fun of everybody at once!

[Cabd]

Btw this scumteam is already nommed for best mafia performance. Because hot damn.

[mastin2]

I'm a cheerleader, in life and in death.

(The problem is that you thought my cheerleading when alive came from scum and that when dead the message of the cheers didn't come through. )

And I also just read the Tammy/PA PT.
PA is

incredibly

manipulative in there, and not even subtly so. Blatantly. If I had been there, I woulda lynched her for it because it's not something you need hindsight for; you can just tell that her posting in there is, well...
...Well, it's the exact type of posting a scuMastin will do for a QT.

And also Tammy's paranoia a plenty. <3

[Katsuki]

Btw this scumteam is already nommed for best mafia performance. Because hot damn.

Town had no direction nor leader tbh.

[Tammy]

Yeah I felt like she was being manipulative, but the one thing that got me was her saying that she was flirting with cabd for a vig shot. Something about that made me doubt her being scum. But I thought her "paranoia" over me being paranoid was p terrible.

[AngryPidgeon]

Town wasn't playing atrociously on average though. I honestly think I'd give town a 4 or 5 out of 6 in Zors survey.

Day 2 was grim. Tbh I thought it was a long shot then. We just managed to walk the narrow path .

[AngryPidgeon]

Welp the next item on the revenge agenda is getting back at Iec/Nacho/Katsuki for that 3 room game.

[Katsuki]

Welp the next item on the revenge agenda is getting back at Iec/Nacho/Katsuki for that 3 room game.

LOL WASNT THIS GAME ENOUGH?

[Katsuki]

AP I think CHEEKY SCUMFUCK would make a most fitting title for you

[fferyllt]

And sorry Ffery for being rude to you overall.

If there was any rudeness, I imagine it was mutual. I seldom notice rudeness or process stuff as rudeness in mafia games. Usually when I stop and look around because someone complains about rudeness I find that it's mostly a style difference, whether play style or general communications style.

[Katsuki]

OH FFREY

I JUST NOTICED I DIDNT READ YOU AS SCUM THIS GAME

ZOMG

[Cabd]

By the way, now that this game is over I can nom AP for "Glenn Peck" because holy shit read his ISO in glenn beck's voice

[AngryPidgeon]

Welp the next item on the revenge agenda is getting back at Iec/Nacho/Katsuki for that 3 room game.

LOL WASNT THIS GAME ENOUGH?

OK FINE JUST YERKY AND NACHO THEN.

YOU BETTER BE ON MY SCUMTEAM IN MOS-VITATIONAL