MS Fantasy Camp 2: Reaper's Tale! (Finished!)

[Tim Howard]

Can we get Nero Cain replaced or something if he doesn't post regularly? Indefinite V/LA is shit.

IN OTHER NEWS

If we're the lynch today, then so be it, but I don't think anything useful will actually come of it. Not gonna be a scum lynch, and not even very good as an information lynch either. *shrug*

Reck, why are you voting us? Like, with reasons and shit.

[Plum]

My apologies.

Reck went from basically not mentioning LLD the entire game (once he randomly mentions her along with Sixty as 'better lynches' than whomever, but that's almost all of it), to voting her (after Zdenek did, which came after Reck's first post of the Day). He basically lets the game move along with this until LLD's big case on UT, which involves some interactions with Reck LLD paints as scummy-manipulative. Suddenly and casually, Reck switches to UT, then switches back swiftly, calling out LLD for 'effortposting' he finds scummy (I'm still side-eyeing everyone else Day 3 too invested in the line of reasoning that LLD putting in a lot of effort to contribute and/or avoid a lynch was a major scumtell. I'm seeing TH).

There was clearly no investment by Reck in the notion of UT manipulating him. When UT argues that LLD's case is meaningless, Reck respond with 'u manipulated me tho', which doesn't move or encourage movement either in the direction of pressuring/investigating/lynching UT

or

towards questioning LLD's methods and motives. It's not there doing anything. Potentially it serves the cause of Reck being able to flip, but more importantly it serves the Mist, it serves Reck looking casual/not caring too much . . . even if people were to have swept off in favor of voting UT shortly after LLD's case, Reck serves the confusion, milling about, and the lynch of someone other than Venmar.

Ugh, this is hard to explain. I hate being the explainy sort. I have converted over to chamber's way, but I'm a sinner. Whatever. I commented on it at the time; it looked weird.

[Nobody Special]

TH's claims to the contrary notwithstanding, they're scum. Totally.

VOTE: Tim Horton

That's L-1.

[xRECKONERx]

This is a mostly shitty playerlist.

Plum I'm not scum, please stop.

[Lost Butterfly]

Day 5, VC 4

Tim Howard - (4):

Cerulean, xRECKONERx, Untrod Tripod, Nobody Special

Not voting - (5):

Zdenek, Plum, Tim Howard, Flipping Awesome,

Nero Cain

With

9

alive it takes

5

to lynch.
Deadline for Day 5:

18th of June at 9:45pm

Irish Time - countdown: (expired on 2014-06-18 16:45:21)

Nero Cain is V/la[/area]

Can we get Nero Cain replaced or something if he doesn't post regularly? Indefinite V/LA is shit.

As long as he has sufficent access to continue playing is fine, I'll make that decision should he not respond to any future prods promptly.

[Untrod Tripod]

This is a mostly shitty playerlist.

oh you catty slut

[Cerulean]

So, I am re-reading the game and thinking about it and I am not sure how it makes sense. If I am right about my townreads on Nero Cain, Zdenek, Cerulean, and UT, that leaves two scum among Reck, Tim Howard, Plum, and Nobody Special. The problem is that unless Reck is scum, I can't see any of the other players making the night kills that they are making. {Sixty, Plessiez, Chamber, Shadoweh}. For one, I'd expect Cerulean to be night killed pretty quickly possibly on N1 since they are the largest threat in this game to any scumteam.

The Plessiez kill on N2 wasn't a huge surprise. I was afraid of losing Cerulean but thought my hint at protective roles being on them might have deterred a kill. Tammy's post towards the end of D2 saying that she wanted to nail down reads on me and Plessiez to get a better sense of the game made me think that one of us or Plessiez would be killed. With the way the Kanye lynch went down, Plessiez being more obvtown than me made him the ideal kill.

Chamber kill on N3 was somewhat surprising and I do agree with Shadoweh that his reads felt weird. His biggest scumreads were us, Cerulean, and Nero Cain. I'm pretty sure he told that to everyone that those were his reads and I feel he is on the wrong track for the most part. I think scum would kill him to frame those players. My first thoughts on Shadoweh questioning me about Chamber's thoughts was that she was the scum setting us up through the nk but I chose not to say anything at that time in thread to see how the game pans out further and I wanted to see who else would be nk'd and what Venmar would flip.

I was pretty surprised to see Shadoweh killed on N4. If the scumteam truly is among Reck, NS, Plum, Tim, I don't think they've set themselves up for endgame very well. If I trust Tammy's read on Reck, it feels even less likely that the scum are {Tim, Plum, NS} making the kills that they made and it overall just doesn't make sense.

I'm also eager to hear who Empire's other scumread is because if you are town, I really think we are both wrong somewhere readswise. I don't know if you disagree with any of my reads. There is not a snowballs chance in hell Zdenek or Nero Cain are scum in this game. We're both agreed UT is town. Tammy says Reck is town which leaves Tim, and the other scum between Plum and NS which isn't really making a whole lot of sense. I am not even super confident in Tim being scum. They are a pain to meta since I don't really know which posts are whose unless they sign and finding their games has been annoying as well. If you could outline a few points and links really quick when you have time, that'll be awesome. I am talking more of specific posts that make you think it won't come from town-Nexus, or town-Quadz.

I expected Chamber to die night two actually. I thought that his comment when Empire voted Plum that it wasn't the direction for the day was an indication that he had an innocent on her and was a cop, but then when Plum commented to LLD that her Chamber vote was wrong was an indication that she knew he was town too and then I thought he was a weak neighborizer as that seemed to fit both of their reactions.

Empire is shocked over Shadoweh's death but I'm not. Although yesterday when he posted his town reads, I talked to him for a few minutes because I was pretty surprised he didn't have Shadoweh in his town reads by that point. I'm not exactly sure why he didn't. I also can't answer for Empire right now. A few days ago something came back up for Empire and he doesn't have the time or motivation for mafia again. I tried to talk to him about his reads, but his response was that just can't deal with mafia right now, so you're just stuck with me. I'm gonna hold out hope he'll get back into it, but I can't promise anything but now that Tales of is done I can hopefully get back some of my own energy for mafia. I need to readjust some things as I've been operating with a Plum confirmed innocent which apparently doesn't exist and Empire was still wary about her and doesn't have her as town. I'm pretty sure that most of the posts of Tim Howard are quadz, and I totally get why Nexus dropped out during day one because hi! but that's been long blown over, so I'm not sure why he's not posting now, and that's a little worrisome to me. If I were to go out on a limb and guess over the Tim Howard thing, it *might* have something to do with them being partners in ASoIaF? That's pure conjecture though. I suck at reading quadz as I pretty much helped to derail his lynch day one in that game and was wrong, so I'm pretty much defaulting to Empire's last read especially considering he's been more on target than I have this game.

[Cerulean]

Reck is part PoE, part, well, has this guy actually done anything this game at all? At all? Besides, look at what wagons Reck was on. Pushing significantly for Nero over kanye as time ran down Day 2, major contributor to the LLD wagon going through Day 3 (after also almost entirely ignoring her all game), basically ignored Venmar the entire game even Day 4. His style of contribution also seems to me to be the sort intended to create more apathy. A lot of filler, really. Is the stated 'I thought I spotted a cop breadcrumb on Kanye Day 2 etc.' thing so weird to be coming from scum that this is all negligible? Hell no. I think a lot of this play is likely to be calculated scum machinations. The LLD stuff especially just reeks of saying whatever will keep things moving forward with the Mist (the bizarre switch to UT after LLD's case followed shortly by the switch back to LLD, just look at it, seriously, please).

Whew, I missed this.

I've been on shitty wagons and have fucked up big time but that's not actually a scum tell at all (for reference, see The Reckoning III, where I was WAY off on my reads).

I ignored Venmar for a very specific reason and tried to get momentum elsewhere because I was feeling guilty about something that I'll probably talk about at a later time.

Also if you think I'm calculated as scum, you clearly don't know my scum (or town) game play. I don't calculate anything. Ever. I'm pretty reactionary all the time.

Eh, I wouldn't blame people for wanting to lynch me though. Every day I've gotten more defeated about my play this game. It's something about Faraday games, man, I just lose my shit and go full idiot in them.

Which Faraday games? I thought you said earlier that you hadn't really played in Faraday games?

Though I *think* I know why he ignored Venmar and my kneejerk reaction is that it makes him town because I probably would have if I were Reck. Well, I would have probably whiteknighted the fuck out of him actually. Except once I did something in a game and when I was partnered with them later, gave them a special pass due to that previous game and people bought it.

But, I still think Reck is town, so it's a wash. Makes him human.

[Cerulean]

Well, I did some reflection, and that whole game was really weird. I basically lurked the ENTIRE game, which I had never done before, then came up with a really creative fakeclaim to seal the victory.

Some people here have been using my RW meta as a reason to call me town and it seems bad. I don't know that it's purposefully wrong or ill informed.

I thought that your play in Red Wedding was similar to your play in Team Mafia 2012.

Why didn't it bother you when Red Wedding was used as meta read for you in the Reckoning? You didn't sound like my partner from the Red Wedding in the Reckoning and you don't here either. You're saying I'm wrong to feel that way?

I mean you're not as obvtown as you were in say baltomeet or scummies invitational, but tonally you also don't sound like red wedding.

[Zdenek]

I got a present last night.

[Zdenek]

Well, yesterday, I should say.

[Zdenek]

hmmm, Tim Howard didn't appear to be town reading me, so why they would send me a one-shot Ninja is a bit odd.

[Zdenek]

Scum Venmar might be telling us that Tim Howard is town.

What are the chances that I wasn't killed for this?

[Zdenek]

My ego is screaming "Hammer," but Imma suppress that, and actually keep looking through the thread.

[xRECKONERx]

Reck is part PoE, part, well, has this guy actually done anything this game at all? At all? Besides, look at what wagons Reck was on. Pushing significantly for Nero over kanye as time ran down Day 2, major contributor to the LLD wagon going through Day 3 (after also almost entirely ignoring her all game), basically ignored Venmar the entire game even Day 4. His style of contribution also seems to me to be the sort intended to create more apathy. A lot of filler, really. Is the stated 'I thought I spotted a cop breadcrumb on Kanye Day 2 etc.' thing so weird to be coming from scum that this is all negligible? Hell no. I think a lot of this play is likely to be calculated scum machinations. The LLD stuff especially just reeks of saying whatever will keep things moving forward with the Mist (the bizarre switch to UT after LLD's case followed shortly by the switch back to LLD, just look at it, seriously, please).

Whew, I missed this.

I've been on shitty wagons and have fucked up big time but that's not actually a scum tell at all (for reference, see The Reckoning III, where I was WAY off on my reads).

I ignored Venmar for a very specific reason and tried to get momentum elsewhere because I was feeling guilty about something that I'll probably talk about at a later time.

Also if you think I'm calculated as scum, you clearly don't know my scum (or town) game play. I don't calculate anything. Ever. I'm pretty reactionary all the time.

Eh, I wouldn't blame people for wanting to lynch me though. Every day I've gotten more defeated about my play this game. It's something about Faraday games, man, I just lose my shit and go full idiot in them.

Which Faraday games? I thought you said earlier that you hadn't really played in Faraday games?

Though I *think* I know why he ignored Venmar and my kneejerk reaction is that it makes him town because I probably would have if I were Reck. Well, I would have probably whiteknighted the fuck out of him actually. Except once I did something in a game and when I was partnered with them later, gave them a special pass due to that previous game and people bought it.

But, I still think Reck is town, so it's a wash. Makes him human.

I played in the original fantasy camp (though I barely remember it) and I played in Metal Gear Solid (though I was replaced out for telling GreyICE to kill himself or something). That's still not a lot considering the fact that Faraday's run an ass tonne of games.

Why didn't it bother you when Red Wedding was used as meta read for you in the Reckoning? You didn't sound like my partner from the Red Wedding in the Reckoning and you don't here either. You're saying I'm wrong to feel that way?

I mean you're not as obvtown as you were in say baltomeet or scummies invitational, but tonally you also don't sound like red wedding.

It didn't bother me because I hadn't reread RW. All I remembered was the ridiculous Robb Stark, Bodyguard Controller claim and my hammer post. I didn't remember the rest of the game. It just sort of bothers me, now, that RW has been used to explain

why

I'm town and in reality it's shitty reasoning because my play in RW, Reck3, and this game is all very different.

[Flipping Awesome]

Don't prod me. I'll post soon.

[Tim Howard]

hmmm, Tim Howard didn't appear to be town reading me, so why they would send me a one-shot Ninja is a bit odd.

Care to inform me who we were townreading at that point? (Answer: nobody cause we don't have any fucking reads)

[xRECKONERx]

How is giving out a one-shot ninja a town thing

[Tim Howard]

We don't pick what card gets sent

[Nero Cain]

INTENT TO HAMMER

[Flipping Awesome]

I decided I wanted to re-read this 100 page game but only got till the twenties. I'm still thinking about it. I'm not really going to fight this lynch and I don't have an alternative but give it another 24 hours at least. I want to hear Zdenek's latest thoughts and where he is at right now and whether he wants to go in a different direction.

[Nero Cain]

I won't be back until Monday. See you later alien 16.

[Flipping Awesome]

I expected Chamber to die night two actually. I thought that his comment when Empire voted Plum that it wasn't the direction for the day was an indication that he had an innocent on her and was a cop, but then when Plum commented to LLD that her Chamber vote was wrong was an indication that she knew he was town too and then I thought he was a weak neighborizer as that seemed to fit both of their reactions.

Empire is shocked over Shadoweh's death but I'm not. Although yesterday when he posted his town reads, I talked to him for a few minutes because I was pretty surprised he didn't have Shadoweh in his town reads by that point. I'm not exactly sure why he didn't. I also can't answer for Empire right now. A few days ago something came back up for Empire and he doesn't have the time or motivation for mafia again. I tried to talk to him about his reads, but his response was that just can't deal with mafia right now, so you're just stuck with me. I'm gonna hold out hope he'll get back into it, but I can't promise anything but now that Tales of is done I can hopefully get back some of my own energy for mafia. I need to readjust some things as I've been operating with a Plum confirmed innocent which apparently doesn't exist and Empire was still wary about her and doesn't have her as town. I'm pretty sure that most of the posts of Tim Howard are quadz, and I totally get why Nexus dropped out during day one because hi! but that's been long blown over, so I'm not sure why he's not posting now, and that's a little worrisome to me. If I were to go out on a limb and guess over the Tim Howard thing, it *might* have something to do with them being partners in ASoIaF? That's pure conjecture though. I suck at reading quadz as I pretty much helped to derail his lynch day one in that game and was wrong, so I'm pretty much defaulting to Empire's last read especially considering he's been more on target than I have this game.

I was shocked at Shadoweh being nk'd myself. Are you still townreading Reck and UT? Also, you seem uncertain about Tim Howard, so I'm looking forward to you getting back into the game to figure out where we need to go? At this rate, it seems like Tim Howard is going to get hammered and I am still a bit lost as to why they are being lynched. But there is also nothing about them I can point to and say that it is town for sure. Nacho had a fairly decent townread on them when he last gave out a reads list and CDB did as well and that makes me unsure. Empire's reads aside, how are you feeling about the game right now?

[Cerulean]

I was shocked at Shadoweh being nk'd myself. Are you still townreading Reck and UT? Also, you seem uncertain about Tim Howard, so I'm looking forward to you getting back into the game to figure out where we need to go? At this rate, it seems like Tim Howard is going to get hammered and I am still a bit lost as to why they are being lynched. But there is also nothing about them I can point to and say that it is town for sure. Nacho had a fairly decent townread on them when he last gave out a reads list and CDB did as well and that makes me unsure. Empire's reads aside, how are you feeling about the game right now?

I am still town reading UT. I still think all the things I've said about UT hold. I am still leaning town on Reck. I find it a little weird about him getting *bothered* that people are using Red Wedding to read him with, but maybe I'm just feeling bothered because I feel like it's me it's directed towards when it's a model I used for the Reckoning and it served me well, so once he flips scum while I'm using my model, I'll ditch it but it still feels right? The thing is in the Red Wedding it wasn't about him just lurking. He tried to kinda play up the "I don't give a shit about this game" type attitude that he also did in Team Mafia and for some reason people read him as town for. If you look at the Red Wedding, it's clear that yes he was lurking, but on the occasions he did post it was clear that he had absolutely no idea what was going on with the gamestate. I mean maybe I am wrong to use the Red Weddubg, he was my partner, I knew he was scum so that influences how I viewed his posts in that game, but I still think he's tonally different. I've never meta'd him to see if he has a different scum game, though posts like Post 407 don't sound like the disconnected, lurking scum I've seen before, and more on par with what I've seen of him as town. If he is a more capable scum player though, it's not in my experience.

The thing that makes me feel unsure on Tim Howard is the same sort of thing that made me frustrated that people were scum reading ffery in Tales of. She didn't have reads, when I think she could have easily rambled off reads, but tbf for ffery she had demonstrated some things that empire had pointed out to me that were ffery's town tells. *My* main problem with Tim Howard is that lack of really anything. Nexus not posting does worry me. I was in Abarat when he didn't post except for like once. In Red Wedding he posted somewhat regularly, but in Mafiastuck I'm not sure that he did. (Faraday has a habit of posting as his hydra partner so it's hard to be sure what was going on there.) But other than that, I don't really have a reason to fight empire's read, and it was an early read for him along with Venmar, so I feel like he's more on point here, especially considering that I almost unvoted Venmar yesterday due to softening on him and that would have been terrible. Anyway, I'm kind of empire could be completely on target here and I'll just wait to see if he is and deal with it tomorrow, and based on how things have been playing out in the night game, I'll be here tomorrow. So, if he is scum, I can do a wealth of interaction analysis, and if not I can reset and figure out where we've been going wrong.

Hmmm I haven't reviewed Nacho's readslist. Is there anyone he thought was scum that is still alive. I guess that might be worth pursuing, but I do know that sometimes unless he can really read someone well his early town reads can be misguided a bit. (I had to argue with him quite a bit about an early town read he gave cabd in we the purple to get lylo right.) I'd also feel better about using CDB's town read on them if Nexus was still posting. Basically, they haven't given me a reason to counteract Empire's read.

As far as how I'm feeling about the game? it damn near feels on autopilot. This game feels frustrating in a different way than Tales of. In that game I thought everyone was scum and was manipulating me, but here I feel like I could argue why everyone is town to some degree, which is kinda ironic because then I could truly do POE from the player list! I really really need to reread the game, but I really really don't want to reread the first day. I need to start over from day two regardless, but I kind of also don't want to do that because if Empire is right and Tim Howard is scum, then it would be best to use that time tomorrow to reread. Everything just feels kinda murky and it probably stems from the fact that everyone seems somewhat disengaged from this game and I'm not sure why everyone is? maybe it's because of the bad start? IDK.

[Zdenek]

hmmm, Tim Howard didn't appear to be town reading me, so why they would send me a one-shot Ninja is a bit odd.

Care to inform me who we were townreading at that point? (Answer: nobody cause we don't have any fucking reads)

Then why are you sending cards at all?

No one hammer yet.