League of Legends (Old)

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Wrong.

BT gives <0 incentive to take barrier over heal, as it gives it's own shield and you don't want to stack non-buffing shields.

[AngryPidgeon]

The BT changes did absolutely nothing towards making either barrier or heal more or less worth it.

[AngryPidgeon]

Did that actually need to be said?

[Iecerint]

If anything, depending upon whether the Barrier barrier is removed first or the BT barrier, or if it depends on the order of application, it makes Barrier less strong as it increases the chance that some of Barrier is wasted.

[Iecerint]

Though you could just use them iteratively and it would be a non-issue and back to no effect.

[MrZepher]

Wtf damage nullification is retarded powerful. I'm not saying to take barrier every time, I'm saying barrier's niche is larger now.

Barrier can be used in 100% of instances. Heal cannot.
You can't use heal to negate damage until after you've already taken it.

Heal outscales barrier sure but there are several instances where you will not be able to use heal before you're dead.
BT has better synergy with Barrier for damage negation because lolmassiveshield

[PJ.]

Not sure if this works or if it is even possible in practice but can you get your BT shield taken down, Pop Barrier with little to no actually HP missing, continue shooting the guy who shot you and get more BT Overheal shield? Seems like a low percentage shot but it's something.

[MrZepher]

Yeah, it's not even that hard.

You recognize that you're about to take a whole bunch of damage so you push a button to negate all or most of it, some of which will be regenerated while you're basically allowed to freefire assuming you're not cc'd.

look somebody found me a video
ITS A VIDEO
if you don't agree with me agree with him, apparently he's one of the game analysts for samsung blue.

[AngryPidgeon]

Heal outscales barrier sure but there are several instances where you will not be able to use heal before you're dead.

Ehhhh. If you are actually dying THAT FAST then something is wrong. And I doubt barrier provides any significant boost in this circumstance anyhow.

[Krystal Bald]

If you don't have time to pop heal in between the burst you're getting then a barrier probably isn't going to save your sorry ass.
The utility from heal makes it better than barrier.
Though this is coming from a guy who 100% always takes exhaust on adcs so YMMV.

[AngryPidgeon]

Not sure if this works or if it is even possible in practice but can you get your BT shield taken down, Pop Barrier with little to no actually HP missing, continue shooting the guy who shot you and get more BT Overheal shield? Seems like a low percentage shot but it's something.

Rofl.

This doesnt mean anything though. The net life/shield you gain from your life steal is going to be the same. This just means its in shield form rather than heal form.

[Krystal Bald]

Is the shield gain from BT affected by ignite?

[AngryPidgeon]

apparently he's one of the game analysts for samsung blue.

He should probably be fired then. This is a really straightforward case.

The shield doesnt mean anything. There is no benefit to chaining shields over just liefe-stealing and using heal to get up. Literally none.

[MrZepher]

Getting silenced/stunned and then getting assassinated is pretty common for ad carries either way.
The point is so you can survive the upfront burst long enough to do something before you die, or to eat up a lot of the early AoE so you still have a lot of hp to work with for the rest of the fight.

The more applicable case is what Panzer pointed out, where you want to stay at full hp for as long as possible so you have more bonus health to take advantage of during the fight. You can't use heal to do that, at least not nearly as efficiently.

LOL AP. HEAVEN FORBID YOUR OPINION/KNOWLEDGE IS STRAIGHT UP WRONG.

[AngryPidgeon]

LOL AP. HEAVEN FORBID YOUR OPINION/KNOWLEDGE IS STRAIGHT UP WRONG.

Its not though.

The numbers are numbers. The numbers on heal are > the numbers on barrier.

The shield generated by BT ==== the heal generated wen your life is low.

People dont seem to grasp the above ^ and everyone just appeals to authorities who appeal to crappy analogies (Its like a Kayle ult!!!!)

[MrZepher]

Is the shield gain from BT affected by ignite?

It is not

Damage>lifesteal>grievous wounds>healed

Bt pulls it's number from lifesteal, not from the healed amount.
At least that's what it did on PBE. Sometimes that kind of stuff doesn't cross over.

[MrZepher]

Wtf damage nullification is retarded powerful. I'm not saying to take barrier every time, I'm saying barrier's niche is larger now.

This is situational knowledge.

when you know there's going to be very high burst then barrier is going to be a better option. There.

[Scarab]

That video actually gives a reason that the new BT benefits heal over barrier. Assuming you have BT shield up (and if you don't, new BT isn't relevant anyway), you're already that much less likely to be insta-bursted from full, making it safer to take the summoner spell that gives you more health (i.e. heal).

Panzer's situation also does not show any benefit from barrier that wouldn't work better with heal.

[mykonian]

BT has better synergy with Barrier for damage negation because lolmassiveshield

You are such an American.

Literally everytime you argument boiled down to "my shield becomes bigger with these two together, so it's better!". The pair of them is not more than the sum of both parts. That's not synergy.

[MrZepher]

Now I know why all the good players avoid posting in this thread holy shit.

[Scarab]

Because people like you try to incorrectly argue things with them?

[Iecerint]

The argument that you can be 100-0 without barrier but not with it is a valid difference between them, but it has nothing to do with the BT shield AFAICT.

pedit rofl

myko gets it right. I actually thought he was agreeing with Zephyr in 31747 originally, though. ^^~:

[Iecerint]

Well, it has something to do with it in that the compound shield reduces the chance of 100-0 even MOAR if you stack them, but then you're coming up against risk of the wasted barrier effect again.

[AngryPidgeon]

Like. The only argument I can hear that supports why BT makes Barrier better is that barrier is better when you are dying really fast. Which is sort of irrelevant to BT altogether.

It still doesnt change the MATH that numbers on heal are bigger nor the fact that Heals == Shields as far as your effective HP is concerned.

The BT change does not affect barrier, the end. You are basically arguing that the extra shield buys you more time to stack more shields...

Well. Using heal, buys you more time to lifesteal for longer. There is no brand new concept here. Its just the same math as before except you get the benefit up-front as a shield rather than as HP regained after getting low.

[Iecerint]

Plus you get movespeed, if just for a second. And you also do it to another player.