Ikaruga Mafia (Game Over!)

[The Necromancers]

By the way, Mara's town, period.

That Jordan push doesn't come from scum, Jordan's alignment regardless.

[Malakittens]

Ugh, Mastin's back to making me want to lynch her.

Thor, you are wrong about me.

I can see Titus scum because I was thinking Fear-scum.

I'm not sure how to think about Xay's reaction to the NK. I have seen both one town game of his and one scum game and he hasn't reacted in that manner. Probably need to do a full meta dive on him when home. And need to finish reading the game too~.

Still kinda want a Jordan lynch.

[Thor665]

I don't hate that vote.

Then sheep it.

Wondrous things will result.

I prefer to lynch on than off the wagon at this stage, unless there's a brilliant case I'm missing.

@ Thor What are your plans Today? I started off liking your pushing wagons. But as the Day wore on, it started looking like you just wanted anyone lynched. Sure you said a few slots were scum, and a few were Town. But in your read list I couldn't find anything I felt I wanted

to

sheep. Who do you think most needs lynched, and why?

I'll go out on a limb and guess Mala...since, y'know, I'm voting her.
I'll add you to the list for asking silly questions that suggest you're not really reading the game

My only knowledge of you is from reading games when I was reading meta for someone else. I read one game where you were scum and you pushed lynches, and bullied Town, somewhat similar to Day 1 here. I don't remember who won anymore, but there are similarities I can see between the two games.

I should darn well hope my town and scum games look the same - I actively work at that. All these people with the easy meta tells just need to get better at one aspect or the other of their play.

I don't think all of jon/Jordan/Thor are going to be scum. Seems a bit too easy. But I definitely think 2/3 of them are for sure. jon being one.

This makes me want to ignore you too. Seriously, a Thor/Jordan or Thor/Jon (much less all three) you seriously think that makes any sense at all? Why am I such a psychotic bus happy jerk to my partners...when I literally could have built any wagon yesterday, as shown.

@Mala - to prove me wrong I'd love to hear your Jordan case.

[The Necromancers]

But if you want to take my word for it, or are a lie detector, here you go.

But he could always be a scum lie detector!





(Sorry. That was mean. But I couldn't resist.)

Spring Starflower (1): ZZZX
Dry-fit (1): Saki
The Most Curious Thing (1): PeregrineV
TSO (2): Xayzeck, Nachomamma8
MafiaSSK (1): Talah
Talah (1): Zdenek
Xayzeck (6): The Most Curious Thing, TiphaineDeath, TSO, Doublade, Spring Starflower, Aegor
Jordan_Downey (4): Shiny Hydreigon, RachMarie, Thor665, The Necromancers
Aegor (4): Dry-fit, Jordan_Downey, Sharpest-knife-on-tree, MafiaSSK
Not Voting (1): Fear

There's this, too. The Jordan wagon begins to form. Aside from Thor, looks great. (Thor's probably town anyway at this point, but eh.) SKOT and Spring Starflower join it next VC, again not looking like it has any scum.

Spring Starflower (1): ZZZX
The Most Curious Thing (1): PeregrineV
TSO (2): Xayzeck, Nachomamma8
MafiaSSK (1): Jon_h61
Jon_h61 (1): Zdenek
Xayzeck (5): The Most Curious Thing, TiphaineDeath, TSO, Doublade, Aegor
Jordan_Downey (7): Shiny Hydreigon, RachMarie, Thor665, The Necromancers, Sharpest-knife-on-tree, Spring Starflower, Saki
Aegor (3): Dry-fit, Jordan_Downey, MafiaSSK
Not Voting (1): Fear

+Dry-fit (somewhat-sketchy, but eh), MafiaSSK, TSO, Aegor, making a wagon of 11.

I'll have to reread Jordan, I don't feel like voting either Aegor or Zayzec at this time. If I could, I'd be voting Rach right now. It's gut, but it says she's scum this time. You know that kind of a read that has alarms going off in your head. This is Rach as scum.

As long as Thor doesn't go off the farm, he'll be Town, and I'll give his reads a little more credence.

@ Jordan Give me a synopsis on why you shouldn't be Today's lynch?
Wow, too many people. Let's get the lynches underway.

jon's lack of vote here also looks quite like scum talking to their scumbuddy. (Thor could be scum, but eh.)

(Also, Doublade is town for the same reason Mara is--regardless of Dry-fit's alignment, his push onto Dry-fit was not from scum.)

(Eeeeeeeeeeeeh.
Second-guessing myself on Jordan. :/)

Claim looked null, btw.

Butyeah, Jordan can be sorted on a later day. As can Dry-fit. Today's the day for a jon scum lynch.

[The Necromancers]

Ugh, Mastin's back to making me want to lynch her.

Congrats, you're (probably) town.

I can see Titus scum because I was thinking Fear-scum.

Then you automatically see town-Mastin by proxy.

Still kinda want a Jordan lynch.

Especially since, y'know. I kinda sorta support this, too.

[Titus]

Wow..

First you claim we should lynch all the wagons for info but noooo that's not chaining info lynches.
Then, you claim that Mala is probably town for wanting to lynch you but I'm scum for possibly thinking your scum.

Also, I love how you came swiniging in on Jon assuming he's scum and ignoring the blatant scumminess by Doublade.

[The Necromancers]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Dry-fit

Dry-fit's wagon was practically nonexistent at the time.

This does look very good for Saki.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Dry-fit

Not as town, but still town. For reference, look at how small the Dry-fit wagon is. It literally just becomes a wagon with Xayzeck's vote.

Spring Starflower (1): ZZZX
Dry-fit (3): Doublade, Saki, Xayzeck
The Most Curious Thing (1): PeregrineV
TSO (1): Nachomamma8
MafiaSSK (1): Jon_h61
Jon_h61 (1): Zdenek
Xayzeck (2): The Most Curious Thing, TiphaineDeath,
Jordan_Downey (10): Shiny Hydreigon, RachMarie, Thor665, The Necromancers, Sharpest-knife-on-tree, Spring Starflower, Dry-fit, MafiaSSK, TSO, Aegor
Aegor (1): Jordan_Downey
Not Voting (1): Fear

As shown here.

Jordan ignores the Dry-fit wagon in favor of continuing to focus on Aegor, though. (Also, add Rach and Aegor to the wagon soon after.)

And then, the Aegor wagon forms basically literally overnight.

Spring Starflower (1): ZZZX
Dry-fit (5): Doublade, Saki, Xayzeck, RachMarie, Aegor
The Most Curious Thing (1): PeregrineV
TSO (1): Nachomamma8
MafiaSSK (1): Jon_h61
Jon_h61 (1): Zdenek
Xayzeck (1): The Most Curious Thing
Jordan_Downey (4): Shiny Hydreigon, The Necromancers, Spring Starflower, MafiaSSK
Aegor (6): Jordan_Downey, Sharpest-knife-on-tree, TiphaineDeath, TSO, Thor665, Dry-fit
Not Voting (1): Fear

All those votes except Jordan's?

Literally less than a page apart. Less than half a page apart, even. And frankly, I could see any of them as being scum. TD's defense of some players seems weird. (Though I otherwise think town.) SKOT's a bit sketchy. (Though I think he's town.) Jordan/Thor/Dry-fit all look highly suspicious here. Admittedly, at least Dry-fit has an excuse, in that he's the counter-wagon, and Jordan's the wagon founder, but still.

Same thing, slightly different names. I don't think all three are scum; I definitely think at least one or two are scum.

I was actually about to switch to Dryfit because the wagon was bigger.
Now I'm good with the Aegor lynch.
People should wagon one or the other.

For perspective, the wagons were 6/5, Dry-fit/Aegor...with Thor on Aegor.

[Jordan_Downey]

Wow..

First you claim we should lynch all the wagons for info but noooo that's not chaining info lynches.
Then, you claim that Mala is probably town for wanting to lynch you but I'm scum for possibly thinking your scum.

Also, I love how you came swiniging in on Jon assuming he's scum and ignoring the blatant scumminess by Doublade.

So, thanks for the report titus. I don't know about malakittens but part of me would love a necro lynch, unfortunately it's completely independent on alignment and isn't something I'd be pushing this game. Aside from Necro vomiting wagon analysis and buddy theory on the board today, what makes you think they are scum?

[The Necromancers]

First you claim we should lynch all the wagons for info but noooo that's not chaining info lynches.

Nope!

I said, quite explicitly, that lynching Dry-fit/Jordan/Xayzeck wouldn't be horrible, because of the info it'd give. I pointed out why it would be helpful, and what sort of info would be gained. I have not been advocating their lynches. Quite the opposite, I'm advocating for the lynching of jon, and sorting their alignments later. Which if you've been reading, I've been attempting to do, with me thinking Xayzeck's town and still sorting Dry-fit and Jordan.

Then, you claim that Mala is probably town for wanting to lynch you but I'm scum for possibly thinking your scum.

Yep! It's not only how it was done, but also the players doing it. Malakittens as scum I believe has a 100% buddying-Mastin record, whereas Malakittens as town I believe has a close-to-0%. You, however, not working well with me is basically a scumclaim in itself.

Also, I love how you came swiniging in on Jon assuming he's scum and ignoring the blatant scumminess by Doublade.

Uh-huh.

Sure.
Doublade's just about one of the towniest players in the game.
Jon's confscum.

[Titus]

I'm pretty sure you're the first person on the face of mafia who said I'm less agreeable as scum.

Jordan, wow that's a disturbingly leading question on Necro.

I don't care for them because of their chaining lynches, ridiculous theories and arguments that assume without actually listening. For instance, the Doublade town white knight.

Doublade asked to cut short the twilight. That generally only serves scum who are afraid to slip.

[The Necromancers]

To clarify:
I would probably support a Jordan lynch, but I'm not advocating for it.
I wouldn't resist a Dry-fit lynch, and might even support it, but I'm not going to advocate it.
I'm 100% advocating a lynch on jon, no others considered. Because that's the best play. Jordan's an overall-good play his alignment regardless. Dry-fit's a fairly decent play his alignment regardless. But jon's the only play that will net us scum AND info, soyeah.

Additionally, I am not pushing off reading them. While I'm pushing off a final conclusion (see also: we're lynching jon today, period), a large portion of my posting is trying to make sense of their alignments and their wagons, because they hold the key to the game. Lynching them for flips would be the surest way of getting info, but it's not the only way; actually putting in effort to read them (as I am doing) allows for the ability to analyze the other players in the game via the VCA. ('Course, results are better, but still.)


Also, Malakittens's slot was never a strong scumread. (Well, maybe near the beginning.) Titus's slot has been. Malakittens posted in a manner I would expect a town player to do, AND more specifically, a town-Malakittens to do. Titus's slot has been posting like I would expect a scum player to, AND is more specifically playing like I'd anticipate a scum-Titus to play. Thus, it's really a multitude of reasons for the difference between the two. It's the way it's done, along with the player driving it, along with the slots' histories. (But still, jon's first. We can lynch Titus tomorrow.)

[The Necromancers]

I don't care for them because of their chaining lynches, ridiculous theories and arguments that assume without actually listening. For instance, the Doublade town white knight.

Holy fucking shit, this line is a scumclaim in so many fucking ways from Titus that I'm having trouble verbalizing them all.

Just...give me a moment to process them.

My mind is literally overloading with the ways that this violates her townplay and fits her scumplay and has dissonance in her mindset and doesn't fit the literal-minded her that should exist, in essence.

[Titus]

And when Jon flips town because you literally have no case? You'll go back and actually stop this whole chain lynching non-sense and actually listen to town me? Nah, because you're Antihero who has got scummy vision. Seriously, you're tunnelling hard on a lurker. That just says gee who wants to policy lynch day fucking 2. I'm tempted to say Jon is town just to fucking spite you.

Also, you still haven't answered why Doublade is "one of the towniest players in the game". Town don't want twilight cut short.


Yeah, disagreeing with Antihero and having a backbone is a scumclaim. Just shut up and actually let Mastina talk.

[The Necromancers]

I don't care for them because of their chaining lynches, ridiculous theories and arguments that assume without actually listening. For instance, the Doublade town white knight.

Let's start with the obvious: you can't WK scum. She's calling us scum-WKing Doublade, while simultaneously saying that Doublade is scum.

Then there is the fact that she is continuing to represent the situation as me having set up chain lynches. Except I didn't.
I said, quite literally,
"Dry-fit is not a bad lynch option." And then listed

objective reasons why Dry-fit would not be a bad lynch

. Titus should have read this, as a literal truth (because that's how her mind operates as), as me saying exactly that: I would be okay with a Dry-fit lynch, because of the reasons that I gave that Dry-fit would be a fairly decent lynch.

Nowhere did I say I wanted to lynch Dry-fit.

Same thing for Jordan, ultimately being, "Jordan's a fairly decent lynch option". Nowhere did I say I wanted to lynch him. The closest you get is me saying I'd probably support his lynch...but that is not chain-lynching. Chain-lynching has an explicit meaning in that you're setting up one lynch after another. For me to be chain-lynching, it must me Jordan-X-X-X-X or alike in this case...but I explicitly was saying otherwise.
Same thing for Xayzeck, though ultimately removed from the nonexistent chain: "Xayzeck would be an okay lynch for info." But I did not say I wanted to lynch Xayzeck. My statement, to Titus, should have read, "Objectively, Xayzeck would be an okay lynch thanks to the info." Because

that is what I said

. Common thread as you continue down the line.

Then, on a meta note, there's her posting about me having "ridiculous theories and arguments that assume without listening". She has played with me PLENTY enough to know for a fucking fact that ridiculous theories are something I'm known for doing, and that making arguments off of minimal info is something that I specialize in doing. FURTHERMORE, there's the fact that she even says that I'm not listening, when I have shown absolutely no signs whatsoever of having not listened, anywhere.

All of which contradict with the logical, precise, fair, literal-minded town-Titus I know. Her wording here is INCREDIBLY manipulative of the circumstances, invoking things that look technically true when observed from a superficial standpoint, but when actually LOOKED at make you realize don't hold up to her, so-to-speak, narrative of the events.

And I'm probably missing more than that, too. But bluntly, this is not a town Titus. This is her scumplay.

[The Necromancers]

And when Jon flips town because you literally have no case?

I. PLACED. THE FUCKING TALAH. CASE. RIGHT THERE. ON. DAY. ONE.

I have EVERY case. Everything about jon's slot is scum. Even the way talah replaced out of the fucking game was a scum replace-out, contrary to thoughts otherwise.

There won't be a need to envision where jon flips town, because he's not going to.
He's going to flip scum.

You'll go back and actually stop this whole chain lynching non-sense and actually listen to town me? Nah, because you're Antihero who has got scummy vision. Seriously, you're tunnelling hard on a lurker. That just says gee who wants to policy lynch day fucking 2. I'm tempted to say Jon is town just to fucking spite you.

And this is also a fucking scumclaim, but I'm again overloading.

Oh, and guess what, Titus?

All the posting right now?

Everything since the second jon vote?

All me. No Antihero.

[The Necromancers]

Like...Titus is again trying to have the best of both worlds. Calling me town yet scum at the same time. Calling me tunneling. Calling jon's slot a lurker, and a lynch there policy. (Ignoring the fact that, y'know. I might ACTUALLY have some fucking reasons for wanting jon dead.) Then pretending that she's calling jon town in response to a bad reaction to me, when her earlier bit is clearly defending him anyway.

It's just...not a town-Titus. At all.

[The Necromancers]

(Yo, Anti.
We should keep Aldran as our avatar, but we might wanna get a pic of him from a different source.

Titus's avatar looks too similar to ours thanks to having basically the same color scheme and a similar form and shape and even locations of the lighting, so it can kinda confuse me. )

[Antihero]

go for it, mastin

[Jordan_Downey]

Jordan, wow that's a disturbingly leading question on Necro.

I don't care for them because of their chaining lynches, ridiculous theories and arguments that assume without actually listening. For instance, the Doublade town white knight.

Doublade asked to cut short the twilight. That generally only serves scum who are afraid to slip

Okay, you just mentioned the last few posts which you certainly disagree with. So, they are solely scum based off todays play, their game theory on lynching to get the most info?

Also, what you are accusing doublade of doing is odd, but to be so obvious about it isn't normally scum MO. I've not played with them, but do they scum slip while trying to avoid a scum slip often?

[jon_h61]

My lynch would put several of Necro's associative tells out of their misery, so I'm not particularly against it.

@ Titus I was spreading myself thin as to what time I had to commit to posts. Besides, I'm not completely convinced Thor is scum.

[The Necromancers]

And now back to our regularly-scheduled detailed readthrough.

81 86 87
I'm liking Anti's posts, but not Mastin. This should be great trying to get a clear read on this hydra. I want to actually go w/ my Mastin read as I played with her more.

For the record. I have absolutely no clue why you have issues with those posts. At worst they'd be null, but those posts are part of my towngame, through-and-through. You can trust me to be town, and even if not, Anti's kinda...transparently obviously scum when he actually is scum, soyeah. We're town, and I am increasingly convinced you are, so we should be able to work together.

Aaaaaalthough: MS (Springflower) makes the point about the wagon in regards to the Mastin/Anti hydra. The speed and lack of a possible counter does indicative towards town rather than scum. (post 531 ).

For good reason.

Aaaaaaaand 643 just gave me Mastin-town feels. Good job 'sis!

You have really, really weird memories of my towngame. I think the end result of that post was town, thanks to my tone in there, my overall mindset, and the points that I raised, but I distinctly recall that I started that post knowing (and to some extent, fearing) I was somewhat-channeling my scum meta. (Then again, you did say town feels, so I suppose it makes sense, as that's kinda what I feel is town in the post--not objective stuff, just feeling-stuff.)

mala's entrace is excellently town.
contrast with jon's entrance.

Yep! This.

VOTE: Jordan.
@Anti:
How was my catch up post town?

(Town vote.)

Feels. The feels.

Best answer I can give on my end, the thoughts, the stream, the overall tone, feel like they come from a mindset of a town player looking and making some calls quickly, like a town player would. No calculation, no reservedness, no lurkiness, open about things.

Whatever, I'm done with the rolespec right now. I see the role as probably being town. I don't like the sudden shift of votes from Jordan to Dry-fit though. Most every player who jumped off immediately jumped to Dryfit. That cannot be a coincidence.

I'm not sure if one of them is town or not. But both Jordan and Dry-fit are NOT town. There's one scum in them guaranteed, maybe both of them; I dunno. (I'll figure it out when I'm more or less acclimated fully, enough to try a readslist again.)

The sudden swap from Jordan to Dryfit indicates at least one of the jumpers is scum. Who that is depends on the alignment of Jordan and Dryfit. I don't see Dryfit being scum just due to the sheer speed and swap.
Aegor's flashwagon, judging from his ISO, is probably because he's anti-town. I don't have as many problems with that wagon.

>Flashwagon on Aegor is because Aegor's scum.
>Flashwagon on Dry-fit is because voters are scum.

...When the names on Aegor that were on Jordan outnumber the names that were on Jordan now on Dry-fit.

Definitely having a

strong

lean towards Dry-fit being scum, now. Jordan's possible, but dunno yet for sure.

Why are you saying 'anti-town' rather than 'scum'?

I might as well also say that Titus has a subtle difference in her wording when town and scum, whether she realizes it or not. I didn't realize it, either, mainly because I hadn't been paying attention, but it's there. When she's scum and needs to scumread players, this is exactly the kind of thing she will do; as town, she is a little more blunt and direct, so to speak.

[The Necromancers]

My lynch would put several of Necro's associative tells out of their misery, so I'm not particularly against it.

And if we didn't already know jon was scum, this would seal the deal. jon's scumreading us, yet says that his lynch would put our associative tells out of our misery--cogdis, in saying we're scum but admitting we're town who legitimately thinks he's scum.

[The Necromancers]

Know what?

I'm going to compile that readslist now anyway.

Shiny Hydreigon
Doublade
Malakittens
MafiaSSK
Saki
Spring Starflower
PeregrineV
Zdenek (somewhat-stale read)
RachMarie
ZZZX
TiphaineDeath
Sharpest-knife-on-tree
Nachomamma8
Xayzeck
Thor665
Jordan_Downey
Dry-fit
Titus
Jon_h61

Approximately something like this. Jon's scum. Titus is scum. Dry-fit's highly-probable scum. From there, it gets a bit more iffy.
(Hey, Titus.
NOW I'm chain-lynching. Jon-you-Dryfit.)

[Malakittens]

To be fair; I think we have a town-Thor, just a very *shaky* town-Thor.

[The Necromancers]

i'll vote dry-fit to avoid a no-lynch, but obvscum are jon+Titus

This applies for me, today.

Spring Starflower (1): ZZZX
Sharpest-knife-on-tree (1): TSO
Dry-fit (10): Doublade, Xayzeck, RachMarie, Aegor, Saki, Spring Starflower, Jon_h61, Jordan_Downey, Thor665, Shiny Hydreigon
TSO (1): Nachomamma8
Titus (2): The Necromancers, PeregrineV
Jordan_Downey (1): Malakittens
Aegor (6): Sharpest-knife-on-tree, TiphaineDeath, Dry-fit, Titus, MafiaSSK, Zdenek

Spring Starflower (1): ZZZX
Dry-fit (11): Doublade, Xayzeck, RachMarie, Aegor, Saki, Spring Starflower, Jon_h61, Jordan_Downey, Thor665, Shiny Hydreigon, PeregrineV

L-1

TSO (1): Nachomamma8
Titus (1): The Necromancers
Aegor (8): Sharpest-knife-on-tree, TiphaineDeath, Dry-fit, Titus, MafiaSSK, Zdenek, TSO, Malakittens

Peak of the Dry-fit wagon. Dry-fit claims, and it all falls apart.

HOWEVER.
That being said.
Reading the Titus/Jordan material at around that time.

Gives me SEVERE doubt about that.
Basically, the posting there

does

feel like scum don't care which wagon goes through, since both would be a mislynch. :/

But again, we can sort it after jon and Titus are dead.