[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Everything? So add an E targets A to that example, and C and E end up alone? Little weird, but okay.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

A 15 player game with 4 scum, 11 town.

Scum don't know the names of all of their teammates, so it works somewhat like a traitor mechanic. Let's call the scum players, A, B, C, and D.

A receives a role PM saying that he is scum with B, C, and another player whose identity he will not be told.
B receives a role PM saying that he is scum with C, D, and another player whose identity he will not be told.
C receives a role PM saying that he is scum with D, A, and another player whose identity he will not be told.
D receives a role PM saying that he is scum with A, B, and another player whose identity he will not be told.

So, it is somewhat like a traitor mechanic but everyone has a "traitor" who they don't know about. That would make for an interesting (and possibly complex) set of interaction analysis if someone flips scum. Scum will flip as "A", "B", "C", or "D" so the town will be aware of the cycle so if two scum flip "C" and "B", town will know that B was aware of C but C was unaware of B.

As for the nightkills, I have two possible scenarios. The first is to run is as a setup where the night kill decision circulates. A decides on N1, B decides on N2 etc. The second is to run it as a nightless game by altering the numbers.

[IceGuy]

Everything? So add an E targets A to that example, and C and E end up alone? Little weird, but okay.

Yes.

[TierShift]

F16, your game looks nice.

I'd suggest a circulating night kill, so scum must make certain not to get nightkilled themselves by an unknowing buddy. I'm not sure 11-4 is balanced but the traitor mechanic and absence of factional discussion might make it so?

[Kagami]

This might be a good tweak:

Make it 3-10 or 4-13, (so there's a mini version)

Each scum knows all but one of their buddies at the beginning and no factional communication (as you described).

All three scum independently performs a nightkill (without discussion), and their targets only die if they're targeted at least twice.

[Bicephalous Bob]

if you intend this to be mountainous, f16, I suggest implementing white flag

also you might want to give the two last scum factional chat if they are known to each other (A and C or B and D)

A/C and B/D should probably have an opportunity to talk strategy pre-game before they're told about the third partner

you could even give the pairs daytalk for the first half of day 1 and delay the reveal of the third partner

it's probably pretty balanced as it stands, but more in an "if one scum fucks up there is no way to correct him" way which is annoying for the rest of the team

[Micc]

This is my attempt at creating a setup that features a team of Arsonists as the informed majority.

Forest Fire

9 Player Open Setup

2 Arsonists

1 Firefighter
6 Tree-stumps

• Arsonists have a single factional night action. They may choose to prime a single target, or to ignite all previously primed targets.
  
• Firefighter blocks the priming of a target ONLY on the night in which they are being primed.
  
• Tree-stumps may talk in thread upon being lynched, but not upon being ignited.
  
• Firefighter can be primed and ignited, same as tree-stumps.
  
• Players are not told when they are primed, arsonists are not told if the priming was successful.

I'm curious to get some input on how balanced this would be. Scumhunting will be difficult without nightkills, but the Arsonists are not guaranteed to win even after three mislynches. Tree-stumps could be a benefit to the town, but also a disadvantage. Mass claim will force Arsonists to counter-claim the Firefighter or risk confirming him as town.

[BBmolla]

Can you prime a treestump? If a person is primed and they treestump, can they still be ignited?

Also lol at a firefighter who doesnt put out fires. It works balance wise, I just think it's funny.

[Micc]

Just to clarify, the only way to become a tree stumped player in this setup would be to get lynched. Tree stumped players can talk in thread, but cannot vote and are not counted as a vote for endgame purposes.

I would allow the arsonists to use their prime on a player who has already been tree-stumped if they wish. If a Tree-stumped player has been primed (whether before or after getting lynched) and the arsonists choose to ignight, the tree-stumped player will be ignighted and will no longer be able to post in the thread.

Ill look into finding a better role name than Firefighter. I didnt think it fit all that well either, but it was the first thing that came into my head.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

They're trees, and they leave a stump behind with chopped down (ie lynched) but not when burnt down.

[Micc]

They're trees, and they leave a stump behind with chopped down (ie lynched) but not when burnt down.

Correct

[BBmolla]

The name of the Firefighter is fine, I just thought it was funny.

[LlamaFluff]

A 15 player game with 4 scum, 11 town.

Scum don't know the names of all of their teammates, so it works somewhat like a traitor mechanic. Let's call the scum players, A, B, C, and D.

A receives a role PM saying that he is scum with B, C, and another player whose identity he will not be told.
B receives a role PM saying that he is scum with C, D, and another player whose identity he will not be told.
C receives a role PM saying that he is scum with D, A, and another player whose identity he will not be told.
D receives a role PM saying that he is scum with A, B, and another player whose identity he will not be told.

So, it is somewhat like a traitor mechanic but everyone has a "traitor" who they don't know about. That would make for an interesting (and possibly complex) set of interaction analysis if someone flips scum. Scum will flip as "A", "B", "C", or "D" so the town will be aware of the cycle so if two scum flip "C" and "B", town will know that B was aware of C but C was unaware of B.

As for the nightkills, I have two possible scenarios. The first is to run is as a setup where the night kill decision circulates. A decides on N1, B decides on N2 etc. The second is to run it as a nightless game by altering the numbers.

I have been thinking about this, and I like it as nightless because you are already going to have to need no night discussion because that makes it easy to just circulate the information.

That said im not quite sure on the numbers. At 2T:1M town has had a historical edge, so im thinking it would probably be either a 8:4 or 7:4 setup. Maybe 7:4 because scum would have a hard time actually getting a quick hammer in to win due to threat of hitting their unknown. Scum only need three mislynches still, but that last one becomes harder to pin down.

Need more setups of this size at least going through trial runs so want to see if this is actually workable

[BBmolla]

Being town in that game would suck ass.

[LlamaFluff]

Being town in that game would suck ass.

Yeah, its not quite a traitor, but not quite normal mafia.

Wondering if it can work, but its a possible jumping off point.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

A 15 player game with 4 scum, 11 town.

Scum don't know the names of all of their teammates, so it works somewhat like a traitor mechanic. Let's call the scum players, A, B, C, and D.

A receives a role PM saying that he is scum with B, C, and another player whose identity he will not be told.
B receives a role PM saying that he is scum with C, D, and another player whose identity he will not be told.
C receives a role PM saying that he is scum with D, A, and another player whose identity he will not be told.
D receives a role PM saying that he is scum with A, B, and another player whose identity he will not be told.

So, it is somewhat like a traitor mechanic but everyone has a "traitor" who they don't know about. That would make for an interesting (and possibly complex) set of interaction analysis if someone flips scum. Scum will flip as "A", "B", "C", or "D" so the town will be aware of the cycle so if two scum flip "C" and "B", town will know that B was aware of C but C was unaware of B.

As for the nightkills, I have two possible scenarios. The first is to run is as a setup where the night kill decision circulates. A decides on N1, B decides on N2 etc. The second is to run it as a nightless game by altering the numbers.

I have been thinking about this, and I like it as nightless because you are already going to have to need no night discussion because that makes it easy to just circulate the information.

That said im not quite sure on the numbers. At 2T:1M town has had a historical edge, so im thinking it would probably be either a 8:4 or 7:4 setup. Maybe 7:4 because scum would have a hard time actually getting a quick hammer in to win due to threat of hitting their unknown. Scum only need three mislynches still, but that last one becomes harder to pin down.

Need more setups of this size at least going through trial runs so want to see if this is actually workable

I feel the problem with nightless games is mostly that the number of mislynches needed to end the game varies depending on how many scum are lynched. How about a setup where scum need a certain amount of mislynches to win?

In that scenario, we could have 8 town: 4 scum and end the game if the town are reduced to 4 members at any point in the game.

[BBmolla]

Being town in that game would suck ass.

Yeah, its not quite a traitor, but not quite normal mafia.

Wondering if it can work, but its a possible jumping off point.

Would it be too much in town's favor to do something like...

Let's say Alfred is scum. He is scum with Bobby and Conner. Secretly buddies with Denise.

Let's say Alfred is lynched day one. He is revealed to be "Mafia A" meaning he knows buddies B and C.

Let's say Connor is lynched day three. He is revealed to be "Mafia C" meaning he knows buddies D and A. We know A was Alfred and thus we now know both of these guys knew each other.

?

[saulres]

Guess Your Role Mafia

Every town player will submit a name at night to use their ability on, but the players won't know which ability (if any) they have. If they want to make smart decisions, they'll have to use the results they receive, in conjunction with the night results, to determine what they are. Of course that might tip the scum off on who their best kills should be...

Players are given results in the form of "success" or "failure". Any role without specific results will receive "Success" if they are not targeted by anyone, "Failure" if they are.

1) Sane Cop: Success = Guilty, Failure = Innocent
2) Doctor: Success = Saved someone from death, Failure = Didn't
3) Vigilante
4) Neighborizer: One neighborhood for all targets, neighborhood continues if neighborizer dies
5) Bodyguard
6) Doublevoter (both votes count for same person, but VCs will show only one. If this player's on a lynch wagon it's like the victim of the wagon is Hated)
7) Gunsmith: Success and Failure as per wiki page
8) Hider: Will NOT be affected by other's abilities being used on their target.
9) VT
10) VT
+ 3 Mafia Goons with nighttalk and a factional nightkill which they have to specify who uses

There will be a night 0 which will not actually cause any deaths, but D1 will start with results and a "flip" showing what would have happened if N0 was real.

Flips will show alignment but not role.

Think this will work?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Does a bodyguard get failure or die, or is it default?

Is a neighbourizer default?

[saulres]

Bodyguard will die if their target is a kill target. If the target's not, then success/failure is based on if anyone targets the bodyguard specifically.

Neighborizer is default. The people in the neighborhood should be able to figure out who the neighborizer is by D3 unless both neighbors target the same person N2.

[LlamaFluff]

Guess Your Role Mafia

Every town player will submit a name at night to use their ability on, but the players won't know which ability (if any) they have. If they want to make smart decisions, they'll have to use the results they receive, in conjunction with the night results, to determine what they are. Of course that might tip the scum off on who their best kills should be...

Players are given results in the form of "success" or "failure". Any role without specific results will receive "Success" if they are not targeted by anyone, "Failure" if they are.

1) Sane Cop: Success = Guilty, Failure = Innocent
2) Doctor: Success = Saved someone from death, Failure = Didn't
3) Vigilante
4) Neighborizer: One neighborhood for all targets, neighborhood continues if neighborizer dies
5) Bodyguard
6) Doublevoter (both votes count for same person, but VCs will show only one. If this player's on a lynch wagon it's like the victim of the wagon is Hated)
7) Gunsmith: Success and Failure as per wiki page
8) Hider: Will NOT be affected by other's abilities being used on their target.
9) VT
10) VT
+ 3 Mafia Goons with nighttalk and a factional nightkill which they have to specify who uses

There will be a night 0 which will not actually cause any deaths, but D1 will start with results and a "flip" showing what would have happened if N0 was real.

Flips will show alignment but not role.

Think this will work?

No lynch
All players target same player each night
Doctor protects from vig kill, cop gets free investigation

[saulres]

Cop doesn't know who he is. No one knows.

Under your plan, and assuming the targeted person is town and not one of the PRs in this group: Both the vig and the scum target that person. Bodyguard takes the first hit, doctor protects the target from the second, bodyguard gone. Hider confirms target as town. Next night scum kills that person, or town keeps protecting that person, and for all they know, they're protecting a VT.

If the person town targets is scum, bodyguard takes the vig hit, bodyguard dies, and the hider dies. So scum's down one but town's down two.

So I'm not sure it's a problem?

[LlamaFluff]

Cop doesn't know who he is. No one knows.

Either way N1 you have enough roles with results to massclaim and clear whoever was targeted. I still think it breaks because you get a negative you know you are a cop. If you get positive you have a guilty or are doctor.

For example all players target Player A first night, player B second.

You get "negative" and you know you are a cop/gunsmith and just targeted town.
You get "positive" and then a "negative" next night, you know you caught scum first night

Under your plan, and assuming the targeted person is town and not one of the PRs in this group: Both the vig and the scum target that person. Bodyguard takes the first hit, doctor protects the target from the second, bodyguard gone. Hider confirms target as town. Next night scum kills that person, or town keeps protecting that person, and for all they know, they're protecting a VT.

So doctor doesn't protect all? If a player is targeted by a doc, vig,and BG... how are you resolving that?

Either way you have three roles that are self-confirming through result. The vig (basically self confirming). Neighborizer (self confirming).

Scum isn't going to be able to hold out long, and with some coordination town should be able to lock this up unless you are resolving things oddly

[LlamaFluff]

Being town in that game would suck ass.

Yeah, its not quite a traitor, but not quite normal mafia.

Wondering if it can work, but its a possible jumping off point.

Would it be too much in town's favor to do something like...

Let's say Alfred is scum. He is scum with Bobby and Conner. Secretly buddies with Denise.

Let's say Alfred is lynched day one. He is revealed to be "Mafia A" meaning he knows buddies B and C.

Let's say Connor is lynched day three. He is revealed to be "Mafia C" meaning he knows buddies D and A. We know A was Alfred and thus we now know both of these guys knew each other.

?

I think that is required or the whole concept takes a dive because town doesn't get to know what information scum was missing. It would be like if you had a traitor and just flipped them as "mafia"

Roles are

Vanilla Town
Mafia A
Mafia B
Mafia C
Mafia D

Im just not sure how much damage the lack of information would do. I could in a nightless see it swing both ways depending on what happens in a non 3P lylo. If scum didn't hammer and it turned out the player was town, it can start giving town a bit of an idea about what was happening.

Just not sure if this works better at 7:4 or 8:4 nightless.

[LlamaFluff]

In the interest of trying to get some new open setups for 11-15 players I am going to try and revive:

Making Friends and Enemies

3x Goons
2x Masons
8v Vanilla Town

Masons have the ability to recruit a new member on N1. If they attempt to recruit scum, the recruit fails. If they attempt to recruit town, the player is added to the masonry as "Recruited Mason".

Basically F&E with the masons being a one shot cop joint instead who confirm themselves to an innocent.

Death and Taxes

v1.0

Vanilla Townie x7

Town Tax Collector x2

Town Homeless x1

Mafia Goon x3

• Tax Collectors target three players. They are informed of how many of their three targets pay taxes, but not exactly who.
• Mafia members and Homeless players do not pay taxes.

I have no idea how well balanced this is, but I like the general idea (

Mastermind

-style investigative roles).

If people have comments on these two let me know.

For Toomai's setup I think Tax Collector and Homeless need to be variable numbers (TC 1-2, Homeless 1-3 with remainder VTs for example) to stop the game from being claim damaged. Otherwise you are looking at something that with an early scum lynch (or just lucky N1 action) can be broken for town. Maybe make it a goon-goon-GF or TC for scum as well.

Its a good miller variant. Could just eliminate the odd flavor and rename TC a cop and Homeless miller to make it less alien.