Newbie 1515: Old-Timey Mafia [GAME OVER]

[Thesp]

I am around, but have had a busy weekend. I expect to contribute meaningfully tonight (or at least in the morning). Glad to see our replacements involved!

[Bins]

I'm excited to hear if Boon has something insightful to say about his vote.

[BoroPhil]

I'm here, I didn't actually get a PM prod btw?

[BoroPhil]

Still a scumread. Looks more like he's trying to make a debacle out of Jake's pressure on him than actually doing anything meaningful with it.

@ Brian - what does this actually mean? what would be doing something meaningful?

[BoroPhil]

other than that, I like bins opening post, and I guess I like Brian's contribution despite some of his conclusions. easier for scum replacees to just drift in? but they appear to be prepared to put their necks on the line somewhat

[Boonskiies]

I'm excited to hear if Boon has something insightful to say about his vote.

I had given reasons far earlier; you can go look for them yourself. It was around the time I gave my reasons for Adrien. I said I would add my vote back onto Clusk if steam was given on it.

[Boonskiies]

I got mixed up there. hold on.

[Bins]

wrong game lol

[Boonskiies]

Okay, sorry. I was reading two games at once, and I posted a defense to something else. The vote on Brian, too much wall, looks like fluff, yadda yadda "look guys, i'm scum hunting! please believe me when I say I'm town!"

[BoroPhil]

I see what you mean to an extent

[Cheery Dog]

I'm excited to hear if Boon has something insightful to say about his vote.

I doubt it. I shall have a look since it happens to be on the same page.

The vote on Brian, too much wall, looks like fluff, yadda yadda "look guys, i'm scum hunting! please believe me when I say I'm town!"

Brian was someone that just replaced into the game, he has gone with his normal posting style.
Can you put some more explantion into why someone that had no pressure on them goes to that much effort?

[Bins]

Eh, that's just how he seems to like playing. Fluffy and long posts and commenting on everything. He's definitely not a lazy player, town or scum. I kind of like him as well, especially since he is reading up on people and taking time with his posts.

My feelings about Brian are coming from his posts about Thesp. I don't have a strong townread for Thesp atm and I still didn't like it. It seemed extremely pushy in all the wrong ways. It was definitely a gut feeling since I definitely did not feel set off by the amount (or "fluff") of comments he made. Then after I made my post, he seemed to latch on to everything that I was saying and I started to feel very uncomfortable with it. It's probably because I knew I wasn't 100% certian with most of my comments, so I didn't think people would be making comments like that.

Then after aggressively pushing (in kind of a condescending way, the more I think about it), he takes his vote off of Thesp.

Bah, I guess I'm not used to it (of course I'm not lol) but I suppose I shouldn't focus so hard on Brian Skies at the moment. I hope he posts something else about a new read since he unvoted Thesp. Speaking of Thesp, I want to hear from the IC as well.

Other than that, ergh. A few people should be making more posts. Brian has the same amount as Honey Bee...

[Bins]

Whoops, Cheery's post didn't appear in the new posts. q_q

[Brian Skies]

Still a scumread. Looks more like he's trying to make a debacle out of Jake's pressure on him than actually doing anything meaningful with it.

@ Brian - what does this actually mean? what would be doing something meaningful?

It means I think you were just trying to look active and noisy in response to the sudden suspicion on you instead of doing any real scumhunting.


All your posts before your interactions are lacking and unproductive. It just looks like you're trying to appear active, but also trying to fade into the background without trying to be productive.

Spoiler:

now then newbies.

watch how I play mafia and then do the exact opposite.

RVS post. Nothing really that indicative of alignment.

so many votable people, and only one vote.

it's always slow on weekends btw

Second post. Doesn't do anything with vote or outline any thoughts. This post doesn't move the game forward in any way.

Hello!

I will be inactive until Monday with guests in town. However, I'd like for everyone to answer two questions:
1) What experience do you have playing Mafia?
2) Do you like playing as Mafia or as Town better? Why?

I look forward to a fun little game of murder with you!

1) couple of years on here, some on some other sites
2) Town probably. too much pressure as scum.

Not answering these questions isn't a scumtell in my experience.

scum are more likely to answer them to try and conform.

Answers the RQS questions but still fades back into the background. And you, yourself, violated the bolded scumtell you provided.

mutinies?

VOTE: jake

You don't really say much with this post. The wagon was in favor of Jake trying to lynch Thesp. So you could either have been trying to start up a counterwagon as it was gaining steam or you really just thought the mutiny was scummy. The naked vote, on its own, isn't very townish.

But if you thought Jake could have been scum for the mutiny, you didn't push him or try to sort him in any way. All you did was vote him.

not really prepared to end the day now.

UNVOTE:

Why? You haven't really been doing anything and your only scumread, Jake, was run up to L-1. If you're scum, it could be because you're trying to fish out a town PR.

If you thought extending the day for more information would earn you some towncred, it's not working.

For the sake of getting things moving on, I'll put it to L-1. Him and Thesp are my only actual scum reads (a one or the other kind of ordeal.)

VOTE: Jake from State Farm

explain your scumreads please?

Probably the first and only thing in your iso that seems to resemble any sort of scumhunting. But all you do is ask Boon to explain his scumreads.

You don't even follow up on this. Why not?

I exist.

I exist.

Why make this post? Do you have

anything

to contribute?

town reaction. genuine frustration.

Vote: BoroPhil

You're just proddodging and you are an SE, there is no excuse. You really don't want to post anything constructive. And you ignored me again.

well.. Pretty much everyone ignored me lol.. Except maybe boonskiies..

I really haven't seen anything in this argument thats going to make me vote either Thesp or Jake now. The argument is coming off as a big misunderstanding.

not sure on this one. I was thinking that any vote for me would be bad, but this again feels more like frustration. and you are right, day one arguments tend to be town v town

vote: boro

scum reaction

I exist.

Really, I am starting to doubt it.
Even if you aren't scum, a town who just prod-dodges is still a burden.

vote: boroPhil

big scum reaction. basically you are saying you are happy to lynch town?

I exist.

OH I HAVE NO CLUE!!! AAAAAH

UNVOTE: Thesp

Gah....

Would both of you kindly actually answer questions and whatnot.
and have reasons for reads.

Boonskiies I can maybe put down to being a VI, but this is hopeless from BoroPhil.

town reaction.

This is a prod dodge. Not a reaction test. If it's a reaction test and you're town, you need to reconsider how you play this game. Because up to this point, you've been in the background pretending to be active and not being productive.

You pretending to mask your prod dodge as a reaction test that should have been read as town is ridiculous. Nobody who had been paying attention to this game would have read you as town based on the way you've been playing up to this point.

btw, any questions anyone still wants me to answer, feel free to link/re-post them and I will.

the post tags ( 187 ) are awesome btw. I only found out how to use them after over a year here.

What is the point of this post?

pretty sure you'd find me quite blah in most day ones.

haha, I knew there was one game where I'd said something along the lines of 'I hate day ones, they are so hard to get into', and it's the one Jake has linked above, where I was indeed scum.

Excuse to be nonproductive, which falls in line with your first post of this game.

I exist.

Why make this post? Do you have

anything

to contribute?

town reaction. genuine frustration.

So why are you frustrated?

me?

I meant Thesp sounded frustrated with me.

Still doesn't do anything in way of reads. And of course people would be frustrated with you. You're not even playing the game.

I'm sure you wouldn't, but the point is the fact you didn't vote for me was telling.

I'd be more than happy to be lynched, I'm not particularly excited by this game, but you'd be lynching town so you'll just have to trust that I'll become more useful as the game goes on.

I'm sure you wouldn't, but the point is the fact you didn't vote for me was telling.

What do you think it was telling of? (This is like pulling teeth.)

well I thought it was pretty obvious from the post where I quoted the reactions...but scum would use my 'I exist' post as an excuse to vote for me. If you were town, you'd be exasperated by it, yes, but you would think 'probably town'.

what scum motivation is there to post 'I exist' ?

Once again, why would anyone read you as town up to that point? And what 'town motivation' could there have been to post 'I exist.'

Your dare to lynch you just looks like a feeble attempt to appear town. I'm not buying it. If you really are town, you deserve to be lynched.

Your entire interaction with Jake just seems like you trying to deflect the pressure back onto someone voting for you. Nowhere in your interactions with him do I feel that you're actually trying to determine his alignment.

Spoiler:

Your current play doesn't give me any belief that you will be useful later

.

does this not imply that you know I am town?

No, it doesn't imply that he 'knows' you're town. It just means he thinks you're being unproductive.

but you seem to be passing comment on my performance. surely this would only be relevant if I was town?

how could I be useful later if I was scum?

I don't understand what you're trying to imply here. Jake was already voting you, so he must already have thought you were scummy, not just passing comment on your performance.

The bolded part is meaningless to me.

insults usually come from scum as well. you are ticking all the boxes here.

so, you would be happy with a town lynch? and one more box.

This just looks like you trying to tack on artificial reasons to call Jake scummy. The insults aren't alignment indicative. And he was never advocating a town lynch.

If you are town you are an acceptable lynch day 1

this says it all.

Looks more like deflection.

do you want to explain why it would be a policy lynch?

is suggesting Jake from State farm is scum a policy lynchable offence?

but I am scum hunting. I think you are scum. Is that not alllowed?

oh, so you aren't policy lynching me. right. sorry, I thought you were because you kept talking about it.

so, why are you voting for me. because iirc you didn't attach any reasons to your vote.

nice try. is that your catchphrase?

ok, mr.expert scum hunter. tell me what I should be doing to scum hunt.

because I thought questioning people I think are scummy was scum hunting?

I'm not interested in convincing you, I see you are scum. I've seen it all before, scum have an entrenched position and don't like budging from it. Changing reads is risky and takes effort. I'm sure it will be clear to the others.

Regardless - I am scum hunting - I'm hunting

you

- so whether you like it or not, it is scum hunting. So your position is totally false.

and again 'you are trying to now' - you betray the fact that you know I am town.

and you didn't answer my question.

tell me how one scum hunts. tell me how an expert like you would (if you were town of course...)

oh you aren't scum? Why didn't you say so. That changes everything. Silly me.

I am, I am, I am, I am, I am. Please please please tell me O expert scum hunter Jake.

A lot of the above is just deflection using a condescending attitude. Most of these posts just make you appear like you're active and doing something. But all you're doing is OMGUS'ing Jake.

I’m borrowing a friend's computer for a bit.

BoroPhil, Please answer my question in post 142,

Borophil, you ignored me and ypu have no buisness asking for reads when you have been so vague so far..why did you vote jake?

which was referring to your vote in post 92.

And to answer your question in post 204, Prod-dodging is an easy way to delay having to make opinions and votes to which a scum will be held accountable. You were one of my scumreads already, but when you prod dodged, I felt like you wouldn't answer my question, so I voted you again.

TheGottemer, just give me your reads.. I can’t tell if your policy lynching or what.. and if it’s a policy lynch then why is it better than voting scum?

I'm really not keen on Flames682. If he was still around, at this moment he'd be my scond choice for a lynch.

Why? He barely posted anything.
What is your opinion of TheGottemer?

1) I voted Jake because of his mutiny post at 78. Again, some scum like to try and lead town and say all of the right things to appear town and I think that's what he was doing here.

2) I agree with what you say about prod dodging. However, I did deliberately make my post provocative to see what reactions I would get. and I think we got some good ones.

3)

Jake can't make his mind up whether he is voting for me because I am scummy or useless town.

That's because there is no scum case against me apart from the fact I was barely posting. and I don't think we are in lynch all lurkers territory yet. so he's using the 'useless town/policy lynch' as a good reason to keep his vote on me. It makes him feel safe.

This is the only thing in your iso I can even consider resembling a townish post.
1) Some reasoning explaining your original vote on Jake. But it comes way after the fact. Why not just explain this earlier?
2) I don't think so. It still just looks like a prod dodge. And people don't use prod dodges as reaction tests.
3) I'm fairly certain he thinks you're scummy because he thinks you're being useless. Everything after the bolded looks like a good reason to vote you and put some pressure on you.

and I think some people are obsessed with policy lynching. it's an abysmal way of picking someone on day one, especially in a small game. I feel like policy lynching anyone who suggests policy lynching.

Might be a policy lynch, but I don't see an issue with him thinking you're scummy.

oh and Jake - I'm still waiting for that scumhunting masterclass. whenever you are ready mate.

Another deflective post with your condescending tone.

aha, and now you start the mis-repping.

my god, it's scum by numbers.

Deflection.

I said 'I feel like policy lynching', not

I AM

. You claim to understand sarcasm so let's not play stupid here.

The reasons I'm voting for you are quite clear at 237

and I'm confused now. are you policy lynching me or not? you said you were at 219. Do you know yourself?

I don't like this post for a lot of reasons. The first part just looks like you trying to manufacture something.

The reasons you quote come about midway through your interactions with Jake. This makes me think you were probably just trying to get some more ammo for your OMGUS.

and 222 highlights my confusion. I genuinely have no idea why you are voting for me, because as I said your initial vote had no reasons attached?

and 222 highlights my confusion. I genuinely have no idea why you are voting for me, because as I said your initial vote had no reasons attached?

Yet I've said in multiple posts my reasons for voting you. Yet you keep acting like I haven't.

I could have sworn I had given reasons prior, I just realize I hadn't. But I did give reasons here.

You are being lynched cause you aren't scum hunting and are not being useful. If you are town it's a policy lynch similar to the thing I mentioned earlier that I learned from DDD who was the town IC in a game where I was scum. He said policy lynching under contributing SEs is also a reliable way to lynch scum.

but I am scum hunting. I think you are scum. Is that not alllowed?

You aren't scum hunting. Nice try

As Jake already pointed out, he already explained his reasoning for voting you prior to 222.

ok, so I'm not scum hunting.

but I am - I'm hunting you.

but apparently that isn't allowed?

So, I asked for scum hunting lessons.

You said I'm not interested?

But I said I was.

So, can I have these lessons please? I want to improve Jake. I want you to help me improve.

You say my reasons are shit. Help me develop good reasons.

I want to be more like you.

I'm not interested in convincing you, I see you are scum. I've seen it all before, scum have an entrenched position and don't like budging from it. Changing reads is risky and takes effort. I'm sure it will be clear to the others.

Regardless - I am scum hunting - I'm hunting

you

- so whether you like it or not, it is scum hunting. So your position is totally false.

quoted for truth, as they say

is anyone else in this game?

You weren't scum hunting. What you are doing now is too late for me to change my mind, and considering your reasons for me are terrible, i don't think you are doing a good job at scum hunting.

I don't appreciate your condescending tone in the rest of your post. I am not going to teach you how to scum hunt, go start a thread in mafia discussion if you want to learn how to play better. Since I realize this is just you basically BS'ing and you aren't serious i'm going to keep ignoring your requests for me to teach you.

Jake, Jake, Jake.

I am scum hunting. I'm hunting you. Do you have difficulties understanding english?

I don't want you to change my mind. I know you are scum, you are stuck in an entrenched position and you won't move your vote. This isn't for your benefit - it's for the other players.

My reason are terrrible? Yours are basically 'he isn't scum hunting' - which is false. I am. I am hunting you.

If you were town, you would be willing to help someone if you genuinely thought I needed help scum hunting (you don't of course, you just don't like me hunting you). This is a beginners game after all, why wouldn't you help me? If not for me, why not give some tips to everyone else.

So:
Entrenched
Unhelpful
Hypocritical
S
C
U
M

SCUM

first two paragraphs there are obviously yours. clearly I need quoting lessons as well as scum hunting ones.

I think it's been very productive.

and I want every player in the game who isn't voting for Jake to tell me exactly why not.

None of these posts do anything except to deflect pressure onto Jake.

[Bins]

But in all serious, I'll go through it.

[Bins]

That was one helluva post and I still feel indifferent about Boro.

[Boonskiies]

He didn't even comment on my reasoning towards his vote...he's completely trying to get that to just fly off the radar. My vote stays. Income the "i didn't respond to it because i didn't see it as a viable reasoning" post.

[Brian Skies]

He didn't even comment on my reasoning towards his vote...he's completely trying to get that to just fly off the radar. My vote stays. Income the "i didn't respond to it because i didn't see it as a viable reasoning" post.

I didn't respond to it because I didn't see a reason to. Cheery Dog and Bins already said that's how I typically post, so what kind of response were you expecting from me?

I still don't even know if you've been reading my posts because you haven't responded to this one yet:

Vote: Flames628

Why did you move your vote to Flames here? Just for a reaction as described later? If so, what did you get out of it?

VOTE: Boonskiies

My God stop randomly changing RVS votes it's getting annoying (lol this post is ironic).

Until we get some actual conversation going, I see no point as to not. It's obviously random, so it shouldn't be seen as scummy, and I am in no danger of a lynch seeing as I have no true scummy evidence, rather than just annoyance.

You should probably hold back on the forced annoyance and irritation. It doesn't do you or the town any good in the long run. Also, in my opinion, you should only have one truly random vote in a game and that's when you're opening up the RVS stage. Everything after that should have a purpose. If it doesn't, it will be considered scummy.

I did like the vote here from my predecessor, though. I didn't like the early wagon hopping.

Being dodgiest. So why are you scum?

How was Cheery being dodgy? From my opinion, she saw something that concerned her and she went right after it. Do you think this is more likely to be town-motivated or scum-motivated, and why?

Being dodgiest. So why are you scum?

So me actually answering rqs would have have made your opinion what?

avoided question. My vote stays. moving on.

LOL?!? I was completely pro-town on your slot and you vote me. Interesting.

Seems to me as you thought there was an old wagon on me, and you just wanted to try and get Flames vote back on to me.

I don't like that. Vote on me was random, his vote on you was random. This vote...isn't random.

VOTE: ashura525

?

It's better though. And I think that between the two, Boonskiies looks slightly more townish than ashura.

For the sake of getting things moving on, I'll put it to L-1. Him and Thesp are my only actual scum reads (a one or the other kind of ordeal.)

VOTE: Jake from State Farm

So you thought that at least one of these two had to be scum? If so, what made you think this was the case?

You're also not the first person to complain about my posting.

[Boonskiies]

Not complaining about it. i just see fluff. It's good scum play.

[Brian Skies]

Not complaining about it. i just see fluff. It's good scum play.

Point out the parts you think are fluffy and why you think it's more likely to come from scum.

[BoroPhil]

This is a prod dodge. Not a reaction test. If it's a reaction test and you're town, you need to reconsider how you play this game.

and this is wrong. which basically renders the rest of your analysis void, which is unfortunate considering how much effort you put into it.

[Brian Skies]

This is a prod dodge. Not a reaction test. If it's a reaction test and you're town, you need to reconsider how you play this game.

and this is wrong. which basically renders the rest of your analysis void, which is unfortunate considering how much effort you put into it.

I still don't believe that was a reaction test.

And regardless, that's not why I'm scumreading you.

All your posts before your interactions are lacking and unproductive. It just looks like you're trying to appear active, but also trying to fade into the background without trying to be productive.

Your entire interaction with Jake just seems like you trying to deflect the pressure back onto someone voting for you. Nowhere in your interactions with him do I feel that you're actually trying to determine his alignment.

These weren't even in the spoiler tags.

The bolded part is the main reason. You're welcome to make a rebuttal to that.

[Jake from State Farm]

It wasn't a reaction test. I was him being useless McScumf**k and him scrambling to act like he was doing something productive.

[Bins]

@brian -
The whole "if this is a reaction test and you're town, you have to reconsider how you play this game" part (sorry on mobile, quotes to hard) makes me think that Boro just plays the game differently than you.

-
I'm still looking to lynch GOT, Boon, or Brian at this moment. Not Boro. His "uselessness" doesn't point to "McScumfuck" for me just yet. I trust him enough to think that his activity and content will go up day 2.

[Brian Skies]

@brian -
The whole "if this is a reaction test and you're town, you have to reconsider how you play this game" part (sorry on mobile, quotes to hard) makes me think that Boro just plays the game differently than you.

-
I'm still looking to lynch GOT, Boon, or Brian at this moment. Not Boro. His "uselessness" doesn't point to "McScumfuck" for me just yet. I trust him enough to think that his activity and content will go up day 2.

If he's town, then yes, he just plays the game differently from me. But a lot of people do, so I don't really care.

But I've never seen a person look at a prod dodge and call it "probably town." It's always either "not alignment indicative" or "scummy." Personally, I usually go with the former unless I believe the person is just actively avoiding the game without providing any content (in which case we enter policy lynch territory).

My issue with the prod dodge is that he's trying to use it as a means of removing the pressure that's been building up on him by calling it a reaction test. "Oh, a townie would never call my prod dodge scummy and only scum would push me for that" isn't something I expect any townie to believe. And if they do, then the way they look at this game is skewed. I don't know, like, was he waiting to get wagoned at deadline? I thought the idea was to find scum before the deadline ever became an issue.



But this isn't why I think he's scummy. It's just a small part of it. His posting doesn't look town-motivated to me.

What about his posting do you like that you're willing to trust his activity and content to go up?



Also, I'm coming around to the idea that Gottemer might just be confused/cautious town. I'm not comfortable trying to read Boon.