The Wire Season 1 Mafia: Baltimore Police and Omar Victory!

[Slandaar]

Pants if I had a secret and had to choose someone in this game to share it with. You would be the absolute last person I would choose.

[Dr Pants]

well its a good thing this an open forum then

also I know what I'm doing, even if no one else does

[Bookitty]

Okay, so at some point I apparently kicked Mastin’s puppy or something. I’ve never played with her before to my knowledge, but she came into the game with a definite and single-minded purpose to lynch me. Mastin votes me during the RVS stage based on a joke I made toward DGB and calls it scummish. This sets the tone for the rest of her postings throughout the game.

Mastin has still not provided any explanation for the “still not voting Sala” updates she felt compelled to make throughout Sala’s gambit. Now, I’ll admit to having had only four hours of sleep over two days during the time that was going on. But it felt to me at the time as though Mastin decided to lynch me way before Sala ever claimed scum in thread. I even considered that Sala and Mastin might be scumpartners trying to implicate as many townies as possible.

Other players have indicated that Sala always plays like this as town or scum. I don’t know this personally but I don’t think I have any reason to doubt that. It’s worth noting that Mastin never votes Sala despite comments like “Salamence’s alignment regardless,” citing “reasons” that she never gives even upon Sala’s repeated request. This allows Mastin to avoid any read on or from Sala at all. After all, Mastin is already voting me, so she can just point to anything I do as scummy. I didn’t know for sure if Sala was town or scum. Mastin acted like someone who knew the alignment all along and wasn’t going to be caught voting for town, no sirree. It was also an excellent opportunity for buddying up to someone she knew for sure was going to flip town, especially with the extensive “Oh, Sala is an unsung GENIUS. You people have no IDEA!” crap.

Despite Mastin’s wide and far-ranging list of reads, many of which move up and down through the town and scum ranks without real explanation, she always comes back to putting her own spin and framing my posts in the most negative way she can think of. She claims I’m trying to lynch DGB when I’m not even voting her (I’m not, I have seen DGB behave in a similar manner before when someone has seriously hurt her feelings) and indicates that I will try to vote her, or maybe I won’t, but for sure I am scummy either way.

At this point, I’m sure I’m more sick of Mastin than DGB is sick of RSD. So I’m going to put my vote where I think there is most certainly scum. You can lynch me, or lynch her, but I’m heartily sick of this particular variety of crap. I don't think DGB is scum and I don't think you should lynch her, in any case.

VOTE: Mastin2

[Slandaar]

Do you have any other thoughts?

[Bookitty]

Sure. I don't understand the nightkill discussion; I don't know why people are assuming that scum no-killed and that there is a vig. I don't find nightkill discussion particularly scummy. That said, I don't know how it helps us find scum.

I don't think Antihero is scum for not posting in the game when I, at least, didn't have any PM telling me the game was open. It showed up in my bookmarks, but not everyone uses those.

I can answer any questions anyone has for me. I'm sort of brain-dead from work stuff, though, and I don't know what people would want to know.

[DrippingGoofball]

Speaking of Pikmin, I haven't seen anything near this calibre of post-quality out of you this game

We're on page 14, LOL.

[DrippingGoofball]

Hey I'm gonna vig DGB tonight, anyone opposed?

Certainly not me, Mr "Vig."

[DrippingGoofball]

Gottemer felt like in the QT?

He is as absent from the neighborhood QT as he is in the game, if not more.

[mastin2]

Her?

Yes, her. Bit of a low-key change, since it was in Speakeasy, but an important one all the same.

[quote="In post 343, Bookitty"I hope to have time later on today to respond to mastin's mountain of posts describing why everyone and their little dog are scum.[/quote] Nah, just you, Xisi, SKOT, and one other.

I've played 3 games with Mastin, and

I'm having a hard time reading her this game

. I don't understand the DGB position or defence of Salamence's maidenly virtue, but

there's a sincerity coming through with some of the townreads

.

Outside the ambit of {

DrippingGoofball, Majvenmar, Gottemer

} do you have no thoughts at all about Day 2? The two fair-sized wagons? Yesterday's kill? Any of the other 14 posters?
Less analysis because you're vexed at the hydra's poststyle I could understand. A void of analysis is baffling.
I have to work out your angle with the self-vote.

Did I mention the scum-best-of-both-worlds? Yeah, that?
...It's no longer exclusive to Bookitty.

Are you going to PL the MS wiki?
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Neighbor

Play Advice

If you are one of three Neighbors, chances are reasonable that one of the other Neighbors is scum.

No, but I'll PL anyone using the wiki, when the wiki is VERY largely static, stale, and unmoving, making it very rapidly obsolete to current site meta. Don't believe me? Look at the revision history. The last edit might be in 2014, but look at the contents OF that edit--it's fixing formatting and grammatical errors, not the content of the article itself. Before that? The article was last edited in 2011, three years ago.

[DrippingGoofball]

You don't think a better idea from her POV would be to actually scumhunt and be town in thread

Gonna be pretty hard digging myself out of the snitch credibility hole, no thanks.

[DrippingGoofball]

Pants if I had a secret and had to choose someone in this game to share it with. You would be the absolute last person I would choose.

Pants is conftown and should never ever be lynched; the opposite of me who should be lynched immediately without a second thought.

[Dr Pants]

any scum reads? any thoughts about the game that goes beyond your neighborhood?

[mastin2]

Because she is the only name in the neighborhood who could be scum to her.

To her, she as town would know, that isn't possible.

SPEAKING OBJECTIVELY. This is as painfully obvious as it can be. How the heck can you be this dense, Slandaar? It's simple.

DGB sees a neighborhood. She believes absolutely that her two partners are town. She knows that paranoia on the neighborhood will exist. She also knows that the paranoia will be focused on her. She believes fully, 100%, that as far as the rest of the game is concerned, if there's any scum in the neighborhood, it's her. Of course she personally knows herself to be town, but nobody else does. But she also believes 100% that after she flips town, people will (or at least, SHOULD) believe that the other two neighbors are town. I don't see how this can't be clear to you. This has been laid out by her and by me explicitly multiple times. She (subjectively) thinks that the neighborhood should be (objectively) all-town, but thanks to paranoia, will (objectively) be suspected, but the focus will be on her. And she knows (objectively) that if anyone in the neighborhood is scum, it'd be her. So in spite of subjectively knowing herself town, she advocates her death, because she (subjectively) believes that the other neighbors will be objectively town when she dies.

Is this the opinion other players hold, no. But she thinks it should be. It makes perfect sense if you actually bother to follow the train of thought that goes into it. You can disagree with her conclusion (be it that the neighborhood is all town, she should die, or both), sure. But just because you disagree with her conclusion does not mean you shouldn't be able to figure out how she reached it. I've *been there*. I know exactly how she feels. There's a reason I pioneered the Mastin Gambit. Is it ideal play, I happen to disagree and think it is not. Is it play that can be coming from town,

YES

. Just because she isn't playing the way you think is ideal doesn't mean she's scum; it just means your ideals differ from hers.

I see you ignored my earlier point, you never commented on her vote on Sala, I would like you to.

There was nothing to comment on. It happened. Her vote raised my eye, but was not strongly alignment-indicative either way at the time. However, given her intention this game was to die today, it makes perfect sense. She lays out in advance exactly what she's planning to do, while at the same time,

doing the very thing you're saying she hasn't

, and taking out "scum" before she dies. (Sala wasn't, but point stands.)

[DrippingGoofball]

any scum reads? any thoughts about the game that goes beyond your neighborhood?

I was kinda of hoping to be dead already so I didn't give it much thought actually.

Maybe I'll try tonight but no one should listen to the snitch-flavored player and there's not much meat in a game where some player claimed scum day 1.

[DrippingGoofball]

Mastin speaks better for me than I do myself.

[DrippingGoofball]

Bookitty let's make a deal.

Since I can't read RSD objectively, and you can't read mastin objectively, I will defer to your RSD read, and you defer to my mastin read.

Dealio?

[Dr Pants]

killing you is a terrible idea though, cause the rest of the neighborhood is known and would get nk'd instantly, removing all utility we can possibly get from it

[DrippingGoofball]

If anyone in the neighborhood is to be doc-protected, it should be the not-me members.

[Dr Pants]

that's fine, but lynching quasi-PRs instead of scum hunting is the stupidest thing town can do

[DrippingGoofball]

I'm a negative quasi-PR.

[mastin2]

Spoiler: Responding mostly out of boredom

I’ve never played with her before to my knowledge, but she came into the game with a definite and single-minded purpose to lynch me.

Sometimes, scum just make themselves that obvious.

Mastin has still not provided any explanation for the “still not voting Sala” updates she felt compelled to make throughout Sala’s gambit.

Actually, I did. Like Dan, I had a good idea of what was going on, and chose to do productive stuff outside of Sala that day, since I knew focusing on Sala (regardless of whether he was gambitting-town or legitimately-screwing-up-scum) exclusively would be detrimental. Thus, why I addressed the Sala situation and made my thoughts clear (Sala more likely town than scum), while focusing elsewhere.

But it felt to me at the time as though Mastin decided to lynch me way before Sala ever claimed scum in thread.

Not really. I used bold vote tags before Sala claimed scum. That's because you were a scumread, but at the time, only a minor one. I only committed to lynching you when I upgraded to vote tags.

I even considered that Sala and Mastin might be scumpartners trying to implicate as many townies as possible.

Funny, that didn't seem to show in your D1 posting at all.

Mastin acted like someone who knew the alignment all along and wasn’t going to be caught voting for town, no sirree.

Funny, this seems like an apt description for many of the players when it comes to the DGB wagon...y'know, like you and Xisi. (When it comes to me, see above. No, I did not "know" Sala's alignment. I did, however, have a fairly good idea of it.)

It was also an excellent opportunity for buddying up to someone she knew for sure was going to flip town, especially with the extensive “Oh, Sala is an unsung GENIUS. You people have no IDEA!” crap.

Funny, because again, this is a trend I've observed in others. Yourself included. I have, of course, done it myself, but the way I did it was different. Others (yourself mainly), done for the credit. Myself, because I actually seriously legitimately hold respect for Sala's skills as a player, his alignment regardless.

Despite Mastin’s wide and far-ranging list of reads, many of which move up and down through the town and scum ranks without real explanation, she always comes back to putting her own spin and framing my posts in the most negative way she can think of.

I'd love to see which reads move up and down without explanation, since basically every important change I can think of had plenty of explanation backing it. But yes, I'm pointing out the negative aspects of your posting, because that's what's there. As I said, sometimes? Scum are just that obvious.

At this point, I’m sure I’m more sick of Mastin than DGB is sick of RSD.

For the record, a player being 'sick' of a player they're scumreading is a rarity on MS.net. Being sick of a townread giving you BS, though, is fairly common. DGB's the latter. The former is what you're claiming, and in my experience, comes from scum more often than not. (Because if you're legitimately scumreading a player, how come their actions make you sick? If you're right, which by virtue of the scumread you think you are, then the sickening actions would be playing to a scum wincon, thus, shouldn't make you sick. I know that I never get sick at scumreads; I only get sick at townreads of mine.)

It's not really important enough to be unspoilered. It's just me casually rambling, really.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

I got no problem leaving DGB for vig fodder.

unvote

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Vote Count #3

Dr. Pants

ReallySexyDudes

--

BBmolla

Dripping Goofball

--ActionDan, Slandaar (L-8)

ActionDan

TheGottemer

Justin Playfair

BlueBloodedToffee

Slandaar

-- BlueBloodedToffee (L-9)

Messiah Complex

BooKitty

--mastin2, Salamence20, (L-8)

Xisiqomelir

PeregrineV

mastin2

Salamence20

--PeregrineV, Dr. Pants, Messiah Complex, Sharpest-knife-on-tree, DrippingGoofball, Bookitty, ReallySexyDudes,
BBmolla, Muki, TheGottemer

Antihero

Sharpest-knife-on-tree

Muki

Jackal711

Not Voting: Justin Playfair, Xisiqomelir, Antihero, Jackal711

A lynch has been reached!

I need to take some time to look things over. The off voters would be what stands out to me here. Scum knows that it is a gambit. I think more likely on light or off voting.

[Slandaar]

SPEAKING OBJECTIVELY. This is as painfully obvious as it can be. How the heck can you be this dense, Slandaar? It's simple.

DGB sees a neighborhood. She believes absolutely that her two partners are town. She knows that paranoia on the neighborhood will exist. She also knows that the paranoia will be focused on her. She believes fully, 100%, that as far as the rest of the game is concerned, if there's any scum in the neighborhood, it's her. Of course she personally knows herself to be town, but nobody else does. But she also believes 100% that after she flips town, people will (or at least, SHOULD) believe that the other two neighbors are town. I don't see how this can't be clear to you. This has been laid out by her and by me explicitly multiple times. She (subjectively) thinks that the neighborhood should be (objectively) all-town, but thanks to paranoia, will (objectively) be suspected, but the focus will be on her. And she knows (objectively) that if anyone in the neighborhood is scum, it'd be her. So in spite of subjectively knowing herself town, she advocates her death, because she (subjectively) believes that the other neighbors will be objectively town when she dies.

Is this the opinion other players hold, no. But she thinks it should be. It makes perfect sense if you actually bother to follow the train of thought that goes into it. You can disagree with her conclusion (be it that the neighborhood is all town, she should die, or both), sure. But just because you disagree with her conclusion does not mean you shouldn't be able to figure out how she reached it. I've *been there*. I know exactly how she feels. There's a reason I pioneered the Mastin Gambit. Is it ideal play, I happen to disagree and think it is not. Is it play that can be coming from town, YES. Just because she isn't playing the way you think is ideal doesn't mean she's scum; it just means your ideals differ from hers.

Unsurprisingly, I understand all of this.

DGB is certain her neighbours are town. Why? Because they are claiming Bodie and Poot. How does this change if she acts the town martyr? it does not. She does not need to be lynched for us to believe that they are claiming Bodie and Poot. This much is very clear.

I asked you what changes and the answer which is correct was nothing, nothing changes with her lynch, from her POV or anyone elses. So, the 'mason argument' is an awful reason to try and lynch yourself, DGB is not doing a 'I have townreads kill me then trust me!' which yes can be town it is more of a 'Hey guys my neighbours claims are too good and mine sucks lynch me!!!'

But she also believes 100% that after she flips town, people will (or at least, SHOULD) believe that the other two neighbors are town.

Does she believe that?

And historically no one pays attention after you're dead and flipped town (see Pikmin Mafia LOL).

No. (Maybe she thinks they should listen to her but she knows no-one will listen to her and make up their own minds)

Now, onto this 'I'm Wallace everyone is going to suspect me!' how much of that have you seen? people might suspect her initially for her claim because it's a good place to start scumhunting but that is not a reason to get yourself lynched as town and if she actually tried to be useful then actually it would not be hard to put people at ease.

What exactly do you think is wrong in my analysis?

[Slandaar]

I can answer any questions anyone has for me. I'm sort of brain-dead from work stuff, though, and I don't know what people would want to know.

I think I can speak for the people and say we want to know any reads and opinions you have on your fellow players.