Micro 376: Chosen Mafia - Game Over = Perfect Town Win

[Wickedestjr]

Spoiler: Votecount 1.17

Votecount 1.17

T S O - [3] - ZZZX, BlueBloodedToffee, Guilty Gunsmith
Josh_B - [1] - T S O
ZZZX - [1] - Lying Cat
Flubbernugget - [1] - Heartless

Not voting - [3] - awestfie, Flubbernugget, Josh_B

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2014-08-25 14:39:13)

Spoiler: Votecount 1.18

Votecount 1.18

T S O - [3] - ZZZX, BlueBloodedToffee, Guilty Gunsmith
Josh_B - [1] - T S O
ZZZX - [1] - Lying Cat
Flubbernugget - [1] - Heartless

Not voting - [3] - awestfie, Flubbernugget, Josh_B

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2014-08-25 14:39:13)

Votecount 1.19

T S O - [3] - ZZZX, BlueBloodedToffee, Guilty Gunsmith
Josh_B - [1] - T S O
ZZZX - [1] - Lying Cat
Flubbernugget - [1] - Heartless

Not voting - [3] - awestfie, Flubbernugget, Josh_B

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2014-08-25 14:39:13)

[Heartless]

Antihero.
ETL.

Stop it

This has gotten entirely out of hand.

Anti

So there's this thing where, instead of

questioning

our basic assumptions and beliefs at the most critical times, we cling most tightly to them. You've taken this to the extreme by calling anyone who disagrees with you scum. I get that scum can defend buddies who are under fire, but that's clearly not the case here with ETL,

especially since her hydra partner thinks Flubbernugget is scum.

This is obvious stuff, Anti. I can't believe I'm having to tell you this. You flying off the handle at anyone who disagrees, even with a really strong read, will hurt you in the long run and will most assuredly make your reads

worse

.

ETL

While Anti has indeed overreacted to your opinion, I will respectfully disagree with you regarding Flubbernugget. Anti's arguments in post 422 make sense to me and this see this diplomatic, non-committal behavior from Flubber makes a lot more sense from a scum perspective than a town one.

Now, you seem to have responded to Anti's nonsense with even more nonsense. He scumreads you for disagreeing with him, and you scumread him back because your theory is he was waiting to go off on you because he someone knew you would disagree with him? That doesn't stand up to very much scrutiny and I think you're as blinded by raw emotion as he is.

Now both of you line up so I can smack you.

-TTH

[Flubbernugget]

@Josh:

Lynching you isn't random. I scum read you.

GG kept their head a lot better with the second back and forth. And I town read them. So I have no problem letting them lead conversation a little bit. I can still find separate reads from them. After calling out BBT's loaded question it's gonna be tough for them to pull the same shit.

You also scum read awestfie for asking a question the same way you are asking one right now.

[Heartless]

Your double speak rant is also full of shit. A west is leaning town. That means I have town reads on her and I have scum reads on her. These are the nit picks you're criticizing. My "double speak" is a summary of what these reads mean to me. The town things I have seen right now out weigh the scum things I have seen on her, but not by much. Do I have to explain these things in such excruciating detail? Mafia wouldn't be much fun if everyone fell asleep trying to read my posts, and that doesn't even consider all the fluff my posts would actually have.

No, it is not "full of shit". Doublespeak is actually a pretty apt description of what you've been doing, and you would make Orwell proud with how delicately you've been towing the thin line of not actually giving reads on many players.

[Heartless]

Anti, I've come around to your townread on Guilty Gunsmith. I've made myself happy with a ZZZX townread. I don't quite understand it, but you and ETL seem to agree on it so I'll just trust you there. Same thing for BlueBloodedToffee. You and AP seem to agree and what you tell me makes enough sense, so I'll make myself happy with that townread too.

People I think you need to look out for are Lying Cat and Josh_B. I don't really understand your townread on Lying Cat and you've already told me that sthar8 is a pretty skilled scum player so I'm not really sure why you seem to be kind of lackadaisical about this read. As you and AngryPidgeon both pointed out, Josh_B seems to be making himself scarce in terms of content.

-TTH

[Flubbernugget]

No, it is not "full of shit". Doublespeak is actually a pretty apt description of what you've been doing, and you would make Orwell proud with how delicately you've been towing the thin line of not actually giving reads on many players.

Let me pull the doublespeak out of this post for you.

My revision:

"Nuh-uh."

Oh. Here's a good example of hydras being a bitch to read, too. You're pushing a shit read on me, and TTH is calling it out. It's like some sort of "good cop/bad cop" thing to really fuck with your head. How do I know if it was a legit disagreement? It's a WIFOM thing that doesn't do anything for town other than give them more shit to sift through. I think this is also part of that hydra dissonance GG mentioned.

[Heartless]

Errata:

While Anti has indeed overreacted to your opinion, I will respectfully disagree with you regarding Flubbernugget. Anti's arguments in post 422 make sense to me and this diplomatic, non-committal behavior from Flubber makes a lot more sense from a scum perspective than a town one.

Now, you seem to have responded to Anti's nonsense with even more nonsense. He scumreads you for disagreeing with him, and you scumread him back because your theory is he was waiting to go off on you because he knew you would disagree with him? That doesn't stand up to very much scrutiny and I think you're as blinded by raw emotion as he is.

I should not be doing this at 11 at night.

-TTH

[Heartless]

Oh. Here's a good example of hydras being a bitch to read, too. You're pushing a shit read on me, and TTH is calling it out. It's like some sort of "good cop/bad cop" thing to really fuck with your head. How do I know if it was a legit disagreement? It's a WIFOM thing that doesn't do anything for town other than give them more shit to sift through. I think this is also part of that hydra dissonance GG mentioned.

No, this is actually TTH. And I agree with Antihero and his vote on you.

-TTH

[awestfie]

I'd like for someone to walk me through the ZZZX town-read, because I just don't see it. I've isolated him and said previously that I didn't like post 77 which was purely a gut read (bad); but I don't see how anyone could get a town-vibes from any of his posts. I'm curious about post 280, though, I don't seem to quite understand what "bus" this is referring to.

I initially read TSO's post here as town-frustration, except it really just wasn't frustration at all, he's just a douchebag. In no way is going from "yeah, that's an awful argument and your logic is shit" to "you're fucking terrible," in a matter of a few posts, is natural. Outside of that, there really isn't much to say about him, he outed a few reads in 344 without any sort of explanation behind it; but when GG does the same thing towards him, TSO feels the need to complain.

(Read: 249 + 250,
264 + 266,
274 + 275,
357 + 363,
388 + 389,
391 + 392 and
417.)

It's really just a back and forth of:

GG

: "

I think you're scum, TSO.

" into

TSO

: "

Why am I scum?

" But, to be honest: TSO, why are you so curious about GG's read on you, if you think his logic is awful? Surely his read shouldn't bother if a) you think he's scum and/or b) you think his logic is awful. So why even try to understand it?

I'm pretty confident on Heartless being town here, no reason for me to quote any of their posts since there's so many of them, but the gist of it is that I see them as someone who's actually trying to find the scum The interactions Antihero and ETL had, starting here (I'm not quoting a page and a half), strengthens my town-read on Heartless here.

Despite the interactions TSO and Antihero had with GG, I still can't get a solid read on them, at all.

From 93 to when you last pointed it out (289), there is a nine post gap from you, yeah. Go ahead and count, if you want. You don't just "hope things work out," if you've a problem with something you point it out; you don't just let it sit there for you to go back to it later.

Could you explain to me how much transparency is pro-town? Maybe he was waiting to see how you acted on what you said? I'm going to examine Josh a little more in an ISO to see how viable this is, but in my little experience here I find myself wanting to lean more towards hiding info than speaking up to have yourself town read.

I've no idea what this even means. I answered his question and he waited a god damn long time to go back to it, despite him talking about other things and having seen my answer, I don't see this as "waiting to see how I acted." I fail to see why town would wait this long to go back to something that bothered them.

I've absolutely no read on Lying Cat, I need to see more content from them.

Really unsure what to make out of FN, to be honest. Gut says scum, but since I see Josh as scum and I think scum throwing their partner under the bus here to be sub-optimal; I'm just not sure what to make of it.

Really confident on BBT being town here. He's asking a lot of questions and genuinely trying to find the scum. Again, I don't feel like I need to point anything out because everything can easily be seen just by isolating him. And I can see why something would feel off about me (read: 406), I usually post a lot more than this and anyone that would read any of my previous games would easily see that + I really haven't done much this game yet. I've just been incredibly busy the last few days. Again, I'm not sure why ZZZX is being town-read here, someone really needs to let me know.

<- Strongest to Weakest ->

Town: BBT, Heartless
Null: TSO, ZZZX, Lying Cat, GG
Scum: Josh, (gap), FN

[Wickedestjr]

Happy birthday BlueBloodedToffee! Everyone, wish him a happy birthday.

(Today's vote counts have been added.)

[AngryPidgeon]

It's pathetic that GG is trying to skate around the fact they have nothing by refusing to talk to me.

No, I'm refusing to talk to you because you are toxic and I'd rather not have to read any more of your posts than is necessary.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

It's pathetic that GG is trying to skate around the fact they have nothing by refusing to talk to me.

No, I'm refusing to talk to you because you are toxic and I'd rather not have to read any more of your posts than is necessary.

Im at the top of 18 I think, was out of town for 24 hours.

I sort of liked Antihero's points on Flubber though.

I'd keep reading but Im awfully tired right now so the effort would be a waste in all probability.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

(EtL this is me suggesting that we should consider wagoning Flubber with Swifty and Heartless unless you are opposed)

[Josh_B]

You also scum read awestfie for asking a question the same way you are asking one right now.

Not true. My problem with awest is the call to lynch people based on an arbitrary game mechanic on her first post. Meaning that she's thinking of the game in terms of lynching by WIFOM, and doesn't have the mind set of scum hunting. It's clever, because only the scum actually know who was vetoed and the scum have a clear shot at NKing whoever they vetoed. And town won't know who was actually vetoed until endgame.

[awestfie]

You also scum read awestfie for asking a question the same way you are asking one right now.

Not true. My problem with awest is the call to lynch people based on an arbitrary game mechanic on her first post. Meaning that she's thinking of the game in terms of lynching by WIFOM, and doesn't have the mind set of scum hunting. It's clever, because only the scum actually know who was vetoed and the scum have a clear shot at NKing whoever they vetoed. And town won't know who was actually vetoed until endgame.

Yeah, because I'm totally living up to that right now, right? Haha, just kidding, I'm not.

[awestfie]

Tell me, how is what I did any different than what ZZZX did?

[Josh_B]

Tell me, how is what I did any different than what ZZZX did?

A-WEST- Asked for Policy lynch by group consensus.
ZZZX- Asked for content from each player to gauge responses.

[awestfie]

Alright, now that you've answered a simple question, please answer these.

A) Am I policy lynching or showing any signs of wanting to policy lynch, right now?
B) Did my last reads post (483) have anything to do with mechanics and/or policy?
C) Are you the mafia?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

TSO, if you are town, we are going to have to work together this game. How do you want to play that?

Flubbernugget, what do you think is our best course of action right now?

Lying Cat what do you think is the best plan?

Why do you keep doing this?

---------------------------------

Heartless' 'meltdown' was weird. Didn't feel genuine at all and I'm really not sure why it was so OTT either.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Happy birthday BlueBloodedToffee! Everyone, wish him a happy birthday.

(Today's vote counts have been added.)

Thanks Mod!

[awestfie]

Happy birthday, town friend! =)

[EspeciallyTheLies]

(EtL this is me suggesting that we should consider wagoning Flubber with Swifty and Heartless unless you are opposed)

Yeah do it. I'm retarded. Better company there as well.

[Flubbernugget]

You also scum read awestfie for asking a question the same way you are asking one right now.

Not true. My problem with awest is the call to lynch people based on an arbitrary game mechanic on her first post. Meaning that she's thinking of the game in terms of lynching by WIFOM, and doesn't have the mind set of scum hunting. It's clever, because only the scum actually know who was vetoed and the scum have a clear shot at NKing whoever they vetoed. And town won't know who was actually vetoed until endgame.

Nope. That's not what happened. Awestfie already said this but I'm backing her up for what it's worth.

Her idea really assumes the town is going to be waffle-y, so nobody is really going after a full pursuit of it. But for an ice breaker it wasn't that big a deal. No need to dwell on it. Now I get what she was saying about you taking too long to address her answers.

[T S O]

It's pathetic that GG is trying to skate around the fact they have nothing by refusing to talk to me.

No, I'm refusing to talk to you because you are toxic and I'd rather not have to read any more of your posts than is necessary.

and that's great, but you still haven't explained why you think I'm scum and your refrain of "I hate you" when I ask you for it is wearing reaaal thin.

[T S O]

you know TSO, you could quit being an inflammatory asshole for the sake of being an inflammatory asshole (which i've

seen

you use to advance a scum win condition before) and actually, you know, give some solid scumreads.

oh please

you don't know my scum meta, anti. I've imploded as town 2-3 times and I've faked it as scum once in LyLo and the day before. Not on page 1.