Micro 376: Chosen Mafia - Game Over = Perfect Town Win

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Flashwagonging

[Lying Cat]

ETL, he obviously was flashing his wagonge.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Cat, why are you two a rather large null read for both me and EtL?

[Guilty Gunsmith]

[T S O]

I think Sthar's laziness is town.

[T S O]

I'm still calling BBT/JB scumteam.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

You know, I could almost buy that. EtL and I were both pointing out today that we really did not like

Spoiler:

I have to be honest and say I'm struggling with Heartless and it's kind of frustrating me now.

Some of their posting strikes me as town but I can't shake this bad feeling and I think it's mainly from the attack on FN (which does actually include some good points). It just seems such an easy lynch to go after though and it's not sitting right. I'm gonna need some more time.

Town
GG

awestfie
ZZZX

FN
LC

Heartless

JB/TSO
Scum

at all.

Chiefly because BBT's top two townreads (Us and Swifty) are calling Flubber scum, but he still thinks that the Flubber wagon sucks and that Antihero is scummy for it. The waffling on Heartless and generic casting of by saying he needs more time doesnt really inspire confidence either.

[Wickedestjr]

Votecount 1.21

Flubbernugget - [3] - Heartless, Guilty Gunsmith, Josh_B
T S O - [2] - ZZZX, BlueBloodedToffee
Josh_B - [1] - T S O

Not voting - [3] - awestfie, Flubbernugget, Lying Cat

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2014-08-25 14:39:13)

[Josh_B]

Flashwagonging

some habits die hard. But seriously, Myvote like yours is on flubber, either you don't think he's scum and have your vote on him anyways, or you do think he's scum and that I'm scum with him.

Because I think that you are trying to say that my vote on flubber is flashwagoning.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

EtL mistakenly thinks you are town. Im working on it.

[Lying Cat]

Are you insane? I already feel like I'm way out of my league. I think the roles are reversed here and I need to stay out of

your

way because I feel like the remedial kid in the class.

I don't understand how you think TSO is scum or how BBT is town or how Lying Cat is town.

1. TSO probably ain't scum, so you're good there.
2. I'm not sure I agree about BBT, but he had some posts that sounded like trying to figure things out which is a towntell.
3. Your brother has carnal knowledge of my scumgame both at its best and at its worst. We're manfriends.
4. Nah you're doing great. This is a list of

very

good players and you're keeping up and being insightful.

oh yeah, and "hydra" as an excuse to not have a read

/fart

you know TSO, you could quit being an inflammatory asshole for the sake of being an inflammatory asshole (which i've

seen

you use to advance a scum win condition before) and actually, you know, give some solid scumreads.

This isn't that. He's being defensive. Inflammatory TSO wouldn't have apologized to GG.

Lying Cat what do you think is the best plan?

Lynch scum, burn down houses, laugh at tear gas. In that order.

Okey Dokies: here's what I've been meaning to get to for three days.

Spoiler: everything important up to now

Everything was cool and nonindicative up to
249 in which AP accuses TSO of being scum for arguing over nothing, when in fact ETL and TSO had clearly suffered a miscommunication and then come to an understanding. AP is legendary for his waffles, so the abrupt 180 doesn't really bug me, but 'inane shit' is something I've seen AP regard as a towntell before and TSO was hardly obstructing discussion.

254 has AP calling TSO scum by POE, which is interesting given how many nulls and waffles he's had and that it's day 1. He also draws associative tells with Josh as evidence. Josh is unflipped, which make those tells meaningless, but AP still wants to lynch TSO. Faulty POE and associatives are very easy cases for scum to push because their target cannot defend against them. Calling scumteams on day 1 is silly, using associatives with unflipped players is silly, and wanting to lynch TSO based on the assumption that Josh is scum is daft.

260 is a rehash of "you're scum because josh is." AP is avoiding interactions with TSO, and simply trying to push the lynch.

267 TSO gets frustrated with the non-case from AP and crosses the line.

269 AP hits the eject button from the conversation. His "i'm not reading any more of TSO's posts" gives him the moral high ground and means he doesn't have to justify any reads on TSO ever. It also comes off as completely disingenuous because I'm sure AP has called people "fucking terrible" before, and being so thin-skinned about something

he's done to others

is well beneath his level of emotional maturity. It's also the beginning of a gaslighting campaign: AP knows that TSO has been called out publicly for abusiveness and toxicity before. All AP has to do is howl like Britney Spears and TSO's credibility dies like Britney's career. TSO knows he fucked up as evidenced by 286, so he'll spend the rest of the game wondering if he's being discredited by scum or policy lynched by town.

270 is a way over the top reaction from ETL. I could buy it because she gets super defensive of her hydra partners, but "ur fuckin terrible" doesn't even

rate

on the ETL scale of insults. She's trying to make TSO feel disproportionately bad about his mistake.

274 is more 'tso was mean to me, so i shouldn't be held responsible for the consequences of lynching him'

281 is TSO's apology. He doesn't use the words 'I'm Sorry' because he's too proud, but he clearly indicates contrition. He says that he did not mean to call AP terrible (whether he actually means that he didn't mean to type it that way or regrets it is immaterial; they come to the same sentiment.) He calls AP and ETL's reactions justified.

287 AP ignores the apology and calls TSO toxic again. He reiterates that he will bear no responsibility for tso's flip. Again, he's creating the perception that TSO did something unforgivable and that nothing he says will have any credibility.

At this point, Jingle and I decided that GG exaggerating TSO's fuckup and using it to discredit and shame him was fairly indicative of scum. I suggested that with all AP's posturing, it was possible that TSO was Chosen. He said it reminded him of my play in a certain 5p with snork, and I agreed. He asked if he could call GG out on it, and I said yes but predicted that if we were correct and they were scum they'd find a way to make us a viable scumread within ten posts.

Jingle got aggressive in 321. Not counting slips, it was 15 posts from GG before they stopped townreading me in 366. Since then, we've been in and out of their scum reads as often as a hollywood divorce lawyer is in court. They're bouncing between appeasing me and intimidating me with scumreads, which is super weird because our relationship is generally the opposite. Plus AP isn't 'waffling' so much as 'trying to lynch anyone' and ETL hasn't gone paranoid on me yet this game.

tldr- GG is feeling wayy off their towngame and trying to lynch tso for bullshit reasons.

VOTE: GG

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Pfffffffffffffff

Voting us? Get real Sthar. Go get Jingle on the phone. Or are you guys just scum this game?

I had to log over to this account because I actually laughed so much when I saw this post (I have read none of it but the vote) that smoke from this cigarello got in my eyes and I cried a bit. Which made me laugh harder in an ironic way.

el oh el.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

manfriends

This isn't a real word.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

287 AP ignores the apology and calls TSO toxic again. He reiterates that he will bear no responsibility for tso's flip. Again, he's creating the perception that TSO did something unforgivable and that nothing he says will have any credibility.

Yes, he called me a shit player 2 times in the same post and then later tried to retcon it as if he mean to call me shit

at reading him

. Apparently he fucked that up 2 times though so ya that seems probable. So yes I said I'd PL him, because I was (and still somewhat am) pissed off.

[awestfie]

Are you insane? I already feel like I'm way out of my league. I think the roles are reversed here and I need to stay out of

your

way because I feel like the remedial kid in the class.

I don't understand how you think TSO is scum or how BBT is town or how Lying Cat is town.

1. TSO probably ain't scum, so you're good there.
2. I'm not sure I agree about BBT, but he had some posts that sounded like trying to figure things out which is a towntell.
3. Your brother has carnal knowledge of my scumgame both at its best and at its worst. We're manfriends.
4. Nah you're doing great. This is a list of

very

good players and you're keeping up and being insightful.

oh yeah, and "hydra" as an excuse to not have a read

/fart

:lol:

you know TSO, you could quit being an inflammatory asshole for the sake of being an inflammatory asshole (which i've

seen

you use to advance a scum win condition before) and actually, you know, give some solid scumreads.

This isn't that. He's being defensive. Inflammatory TSO wouldn't have apologized to GG.

Lying Cat what do you think is the best plan?

Lynch scum, burn down houses, laugh at tear gas. In that order.

Okey Dokies: here's what I've been meaning to get to for three days.

Spoiler: everything important up to now

Everything was cool and nonindicative up to
249 in which AP accuses TSO of being scum for arguing over nothing, when in fact ETL and TSO had clearly suffered a miscommunication and then come to an understanding. AP is legendary for his waffles, so the abrupt 180 doesn't really bug me, but 'inane shit' is something I've seen AP regard as a towntell before and TSO was hardly obstructing discussion.

254 has AP calling TSO scum by POE, which is interesting given how many nulls and waffles he's had and that it's day 1. He also draws associative tells with Josh as evidence. Josh is unflipped, which make those tells meaningless, but AP still wants to lynch TSO. Faulty POE and associatives are very easy cases for scum to push because their target cannot defend against them. Calling scumteams on day 1 is silly, using associatives with unflipped players is silly, and wanting to lynch TSO based on the assumption that Josh is scum is daft.

260 is a rehash of "you're scum because josh is." AP is avoiding interactions with TSO, and simply trying to push the lynch.

267 TSO gets frustrated with the non-case from AP and crosses the line.

269 AP hits the eject button from the conversation. His "i'm not reading any more of TSO's posts" gives him the moral high ground and means he doesn't have to justify any reads on TSO ever. It also comes off as completely disingenuous because I'm sure AP has called people "fucking terrible" before, and being so thin-skinned about something

he's done to others

is well beneath his level of emotional maturity. It's also the beginning of a gaslighting campaign: AP knows that TSO has been called out publicly for abusiveness and toxicity before. All AP has to do is howl like Britney Spears and TSO's credibility dies like Britney's career. TSO knows he fucked up as evidenced by 286, so he'll spend the rest of the game wondering if he's being discredited by scum or policy lynched by town.

270 is a way over the top reaction from ETL. I could buy it because she gets super defensive of her hydra partners, but "ur fuckin terrible" doesn't even

rate

on the ETL scale of insults. She's trying to make TSO feel disproportionately bad about his mistake.

274 is more 'tso was mean to me, so i shouldn't be held responsible for the consequences of lynching him'

281 is TSO's apology. He doesn't use the words 'I'm Sorry' because he's too proud, but he clearly indicates contrition. He says that he did not mean to call AP terrible (whether he actually means that he didn't mean to type it that way or regrets it is immaterial; they come to the same sentiment.) He calls AP and ETL's reactions justified.

287 AP ignores the apology and calls TSO toxic again. He reiterates that he will bear no responsibility for tso's flip. Again, he's creating the perception that TSO did something unforgivable and that nothing he says will have any credibility.

At this point, Jingle and I decided that GG exaggerating TSO's fuckup and using it to discredit and shame him was fairly indicative of scum. I suggested that with all AP's posturing, it was possible that TSO was Chosen. He said it reminded him of my play in a certain 5p with snork, and I agreed. He asked if he could call GG out on it, and I said yes but predicted that if we were correct and they were scum they'd find a way to make us a viable scumread within ten posts.

Jingle got aggressive in 321. Not counting slips, it was 15 posts from GG before they stopped townreading me in 366. Since then, we've been in and out of their scum reads as often as a hollywood divorce lawyer is in court. They're bouncing between appeasing me and intimidating me with scumreads, which is super weird because our relationship is generally the opposite. Plus AP isn't 'waffling' so much as 'trying to lynch anyone' and ETL hasn't gone paranoid on me yet this game.

tldr- GG is feeling wayy off their towngame and trying to lynch tso for bullshit reasons.

VOTE: GG

There's two of you, you had three days to think all of this through and this is all that you guys had to say, really? Really not liking this post at all. Why are you guys playing so lazily? I wouldn't normally think that, being lazy is a scum-tell. What's bothering me is that there's two people posting on that account and it doesn't seem like it, at all. I understand that one of you was busy with "baby sitting," but why wasn't the other head posting during that time? I've played in a hydra before and you don't just wait for the other head to give you their reads to post; you post when you want to post and keep your partner updated with your reads and they'll do the same. So, what's the problem here? I'm actually seeing this from GG/Antihero, but not from you two, so.

[awestfie]

There's two of you, you had three days to think all of this through and this is all that you guys had to say, really? Really not liking this post at all. Why are you guys playing so lazily? I wouldn't normally think that, being lazy is a scum-tell. What's bothering me is that there's two people posting on that account and it doesn't seem like it, at all. I understand that one of you was busy with "baby sitting," but why wasn't the other head posting during that time?

I've played in a hydra before and you don't just wait for the other head to give you their reads to post; you post when you want to post and keep your partner updated with your reads and they'll do the same. So, what's the problem here? I'm actually seeing this from GG/Antihero, but not from you two, so.

I forgot to paragraph break, so here's an "easier" version to read.

[ZZZX]

I read and I am still feeling TSO might be scum but Flubber feels wrong too. and since I will have really limited access (only to prod dodge/post once every 1-2 days) for 1-5 days for my travels I will prob move my vote to somewhere more productive


INTENT TO PUT FLUBBER AT L1

Discuss.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Spoiler: What the shit is this shitty shit LC?

Are you insane? I already feel like I'm way out of my league. I think the roles are reversed here and I need to stay out of

your

way because I feel like the remedial kid in the class.

I don't understand how you think TSO is scum or how BBT is town or how Lying Cat is town.

1. TSO probably ain't scum, so you're good there.
2. I'm not sure I agree about BBT, but he had some posts that sounded like trying to figure things out which is a towntell.
3. Your brother has carnal knowledge of my scumgame both at its best and at its worst. We're manfriends.
4. Nah you're doing great. This is a list of

very

good players and you're keeping up and being insightful.

oh yeah, and "hydra" as an excuse to not have a read

/fart

you know TSO, you could quit being an inflammatory asshole for the sake of being an inflammatory asshole (which i've

seen

you use to advance a scum win condition before) and actually, you know, give some solid scumreads.

This isn't that. He's being defensive. Inflammatory TSO wouldn't have apologized to GG.

Lying Cat what do you think is the best plan?

Lynch scum, burn down houses, laugh at tear gas. In that order.

Okey Dokies: here's what I've been meaning to get to for three days.

spoiler

[UNSPOILERED because fuck nesting like a pro]

=everything important up to now

Everything was cool and nonindicative up to
249 in which AP accuses TSO of being scum for arguing over nothing, when in fact ETL and TSO had clearly suffered a miscommunication and then come to an understanding. AP is legendary for his waffles, so the abrupt 180 doesn't really bug me, but 'inane shit' is something I've seen AP regard as a towntell before and TSO was hardly obstructing discussion.

254 has AP calling TSO scum by POE, which is interesting given how many nulls and waffles he's had and that it's day 1. He also draws associative tells with Josh as evidence. Josh is unflipped, which make those tells meaningless, but AP still wants to lynch TSO. Faulty POE and associatives are very easy cases for scum to push because their target cannot defend against them. Calling scumteams on day 1 is silly, using associatives with unflipped players is silly, and wanting to lynch TSO based on the assumption that Josh is scum is daft.

260 is a rehash of "you're scum because josh is." AP is avoiding interactions with TSO, and simply trying to push the lynch.

267 TSO gets frustrated with the non-case from AP and crosses the line.

269 AP hits the eject button from the conversation. His "i'm not reading any more of TSO's posts" gives him the moral high ground and means he doesn't have to justify any reads on TSO ever. It also comes off as completely disingenuous because I'm sure AP has called people "fucking terrible" before, and being so thin-skinned about something

he's done to others

is well beneath his level of emotional maturity. It's also the beginning of a gaslighting campaign: AP knows that TSO has been called out publicly for abusiveness and toxicity before. All AP has to do is howl like Britney Spears and TSO's credibility dies like Britney's career. TSO knows he fucked up as evidenced by 286, so he'll spend the rest of the game wondering if he's being discredited by scum or policy lynched by town.

270 is a way over the top reaction from ETL. I could buy it because she gets super defensive of her hydra partners, but "ur fuckin terrible" doesn't even

rate

on the ETL scale of insults. She's trying to make TSO feel disproportionately bad about his mistake.

274 is more 'tso was mean to me, so i shouldn't be held responsible for the consequences of lynching him'

281 is TSO's apology. He doesn't use the words 'I'm Sorry' because he's too proud, but he clearly indicates contrition. He says that he did not mean to call AP terrible (whether he actually means that he didn't mean to type it that way or regrets it is immaterial; they come to the same sentiment.) He calls AP and ETL's reactions justified.

287 AP ignores the apology and calls TSO toxic again. He reiterates that he will bear no responsibility for tso's flip. Again, he's creating the perception that TSO did something unforgivable and that nothing he says will have any credibility.

At this point, Jingle and I decided that GG exaggerating TSO's fuckup and using it to discredit and shame him was fairly indicative of scum. I suggested that with all AP's posturing, it was possible that TSO was Chosen. He said it reminded him of my play in a certain 5p with snork, and I agreed. He asked if he could call GG out on it, and I said yes but predicted that if we were correct and they were scum they'd find a way to make us a viable scumread within ten posts.

Jingle got aggressive in 321. Not counting slips, it was 15 posts from GG before they stopped townreading me in 366. Since then, we've been in and out of their scum reads as often as a hollywood divorce lawyer is in court. They're bouncing between appeasing me and intimidating me with scumreads, which is super weird because our relationship is generally the opposite. Plus AP isn't 'waffling' so much as 'trying to lynch anyone' and ETL hasn't gone paranoid on me yet this game.
tldr- GG is feeling wayy off their towngame and trying to lynch tso for bullshit reasons.

VOTE: GG

Also fuck you and your double spaces. Get into the 21st century already.

I'll respond to this in full when I'm not swamped at work.

ETL

[Guilty Gunsmith]

INTENT TO PUT FLUBBER AT L1

Discuss.

Don't be a nob. There's words I'd like to have with mr. sthar8. You wait.

ETL

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Oh yeah and one last thing -

TTH/Anti

If LC is scum, he's going to try to buddy the two of you (because he can and you are susceptible to it) and polarize AP and I away from the group, then eventually, kill us. Don't fall for his manipulative shit.

NC

[Guilty Gunsmith]

jesus. NC is my initials.

Obviously this is ETL. I'm going back to work now.

[Josh_B]

ing over nothing, when in fact ETL and TSO had clearly suffered a miscommunication and then come to an understanding. AP is legendary for his waffles, so the abrupt 180 doesn't really bug me, but 'inane shit' is something I've seen AP regard as a towntell before and TSO was hardly obstructing discussion.

I haven't really decided where I fall on the TSO/GG line yet, but I like your evaluation. I am hard pressed to believe an apology could come from TSO !evar! Which is mostly why I'm not sure about that situation, possibly one or the other is scum. Not unlike awest to be so negative about this post.

[Josh_B]

There's two of you, you had three days to think all of this through and this is all that you guys had to say, really? Really not liking this post at all. Why are you guys playing so lazily? I wouldn't normally think that, being lazy is a scum-tell. What's bothering me is that there's two people posting on that account and it doesn't seem like it, at all. I understand that one of you was busy with "baby sitting," but why wasn't the other head posting during that time?

I've played in a hydra before and you don't just wait for the other head to give you their reads to post; you post when you want to post and keep your partner updated with your reads and they'll do the same. So, what's the problem here? I'm actually seeing this from GG/Antihero, but not from you two, so.

I forgot to paragraph break, so here's an "easier" version to read.

O I C. you think Sthar and Jingle aren't doing a good job at being a hydra. What do you think about the content of the post? Do you have anything to say about the content?

[awestfie]

Much like your posts, it's bad.

[Flubbernugget]

There's two of you, you had three days to think all of this through and this is all that you guys had to say, really? Really not liking this post at all. Why are you guys playing so lazily? I wouldn't normally think that, being lazy is a scum-tell. What's bothering me is that there's two people posting on that account and it doesn't seem like it, at all. I understand that one of you was busy with "baby sitting," but why wasn't the other head posting during that time?

I've played in a hydra before and you don't just wait for the other head to give you their reads to post; you post when you want to post and keep your partner updated with your reads and they'll do the same. So, what's the problem here? I'm actually seeing this from GG/Antihero, but not from you two, so.

I forgot to paragraph break, so here's an "easier" version to read.

Agree and disagree.

I agree that despite the detailed coverage, there's a lot of the game that hasn't been touched.

As far as how you play as a hydra, maybe it's just a different style to discuss before you post? I'm honestly not sure here because I've never hydra'd, so someone else might have to step in for me here.

I also somewhat agree with what LC brought up. LC also saw a lot of things I world have never have been able to see. My only issue is I have no idea how to determine whether or not an insult was truly "over the top. " Way to meta for me.

What about LC's observations do you see as bad?