Mini 1602: Game Over

[Malakittens]

Can anyone explain why implosion is town?

[implosion]

Can anyone explain why implosion is town?

My role pm told me i was

[Elias_the_thief]

@Aneninen:

I have a couple of questions/requests...

1. Can you go into more detail about why Flames is scum? For instance, what makes 66 and 92 "weak", and how does weak correspond to scummy for you?

2. I feel like you're giving implosion a bit of a free pass. Could you give some examples of his mostly town posts, rather than just stating he's got a lot of them?

3. Why does seeing nothing scummy in Phok's posts make him a town read and not unsorted? It seems odd to me that you would put a player in the town column when you have no town tells to list.

[tman2nd]

AGar: I'm going to go with everyone else in saying that he's looking very town right now. He doing some good scumhunting.

Aneninen: He has a slow start, but I think that might just his playstyle. There's something kind of awkward about their posts, but that's not necessarily due to scumminess. There's something I don't quite like about their read list, but can't quite figure out what it is. I'm not sure how to read him.

chaoslord54: Nothing.

Elias_the_thief: 148 interests me. Those are the three players I was considering voting a while ago.
I guess that would be part of why he put me as a town reads. Despite this, (or rather because of this) I feel like he might be scum trying to buddy up with me and Agar. It's not a strong feeling, but it's there. I don't quite like his sheeping of mala. It kind of seems like there's a flow to his thoughts that's missing.

Flames682: His change of mind in 149 seems like it might have been due to the fact that the phok wagon was losing support and the rack one gaining. Why did you change your mind?

implosion: I don't like his habit of making votes without explanation. 70 was reaching, but I can let that slide because of how early in the day it was. Terrible reasoning (non-existant) for the mala vote in 208. Suddenly he seems a bit more town in recent posts. I came into this ISO with a scumread, but I'm not sure about that anymore.

Malakittens: I hate trying to read mala. It's hard. Town?

phok: Slight town read. I'd like to hear more.

rack: I still think rack is scum.

Riabi: Say more!

shaddowez: Has posted a lot, but I don't have much to say about it. Null-town.

Tammy: I don't see why she's been read as super towny. I mean, I read her as town, but she's not outstandingly so.

[SleepyKrew]

VC 1.08

rack

(3) - phokdapolees, Flames682, chaoslord54

Flames682

(3) - AGar, implosion, Aneninen

Aneninen

(2) - Malakittens, Elias_the_thief

Malakittens

(1) - Tammy

phokdapolees

(1) - rack

tman2nd

(1) - Riabi

Not Voting

(2) - shaddowez, tman2nd

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 deadline will hit in: (expired on 2014-08-31 16:48:15)

[Aneninen]

Oh that went over your head. I was just lol inserting a half of a greys quote, but messed it up royally because I forgot half of it.

???

@Aneninen:

I have a couple of questions/requests...
1. Can you go into more detail about why Flames is scum? For instance, what makes 66 and 92 "weak", and how does weak correspond to scummy for you?
2. I feel like you're giving implosion a bit of a free pass. Could you give some examples of his mostly town posts, rather than just stating he's got a lot of them?
3. Why does seeing nothing scummy in Phok's posts make him a town read and not unsorted? It seems odd to me that you would put a player in the town column when you have no town tells to list.

1. His vote against Phokdapolees in 66 is based upon a really weak thing: Phok's interpretation on their joke (with Tammy). Not getting a joke is a null in itself, in my opinion. In 67 he pushes Rack (that's viable), in 75 he told that Rack had wanted to be playful. (How exactly, I think.) In 92 he "attacks" Phok's vote for Rack. For sure, Phok's argument wasn't a strong one but it has been far not the weakest in this thread so far. In 119 he protects Rack yet again,

"If he says he's played with Tammy before, he probably has and he's a confirmed alt as well"

(though in 67 he wanted a reference from Rack). In 149 he left alone Phokdapolees – I think he had realized that that wagon hadn't been moving. That post has very little content. Here he brought up yet again that Rock hadn't given references about Tammy. (Yet another contradiction.) I don't know why Rack's MalaKitty vote was town in his opinion. At the end of the post Flame brought up (in my opinion) real scumtells against Rack but for that he needn't have made a long quote with "playful/seem town/etc" before that.
In general, he is producing inconsistent and "it looks as if it contained more information than it contains" posts (unless I've seriously skimmed over something) and I usually consider this a scumread.

2. Implosion hasn't got a free pass, he's on the lean town tier with many other players. 68 would get a similar read from me as Rack's post since he talked about Tammy without giving a reference but he gave one in 71 (town/null tell, unsure). I agree with 70 on the other hand (so, a minor town vibe for that). Apart from the vote 115 looks like a genuine one; he must have thought for real about those things (on the other hand, I'm not sure about the conclusion of him). 208 and 209 seem to be genuine list-reads (even if I disagree with some of those reads). (His next post is a mere recapitulation, no new info there). However, 226 is a WTF. That question went for me, didn't it?

3. Phokdapolees. Missing a joke is a null. The "lean town" read is more-or-less a gut read: the way the tried to explain himself (eg. about the joke) felt townish. I think he tries to get reads but he fails to get good bits. (Another intuitive tell, I admit.)

Aneninen: He has a slow start, but I think that might just his playstyle. There's something kind of awkward about their posts, but that's not necessarily due to scumminess. There's something I don't quite like about their read list, but can't quite figure out what it is. I'm not sure how to read him.

Sometimes I have enough time for contentful posts, sometimes nothing. Sometimes I read without posting (mostly from mobile). Sometimes I'm away for a while due to work or other things. Maybe thatswhy I'm unpredictable: sometimes I react almost instantly, sometimes I bring up posts which are older than a coelacanth. Does this explain anything for you?

[tman2nd]

I'm going to tackle Aneninen's read list.

Probably Town

Agar – genuine scumhunting, including eg. 130, 205.

No disagreement here.

Lean Town

T-man – active reading and it seems that he tries hard. Still, something disturbs me in his posts and I don't know what. (Can anyone help?)

I dunno.

Implosion – his 100+ posts are mostly town-ish, though his vote in 115 was awkward. (So was his explanation about it in 208)

What about before that?

Already addressed this.

Chaoslord – because his list seems to be genuine, not a simple copy/paste of another list or of the current VC. But, we need more posts!

Overall that looks more null to me.

MalaKitty – many posts are sensible (eg. 87, 93, 97, 128... many). Still, she might be an expert-scum who tries starting cases (42, 129). Though, in my case, apart from the "forced RVS" thing she was right (I was posting elsewhere while producing here null-fluff). So, the latter possibility is not too likely.

What do you mean by "expert-scum who tries starting cases"?

Phokdapolees – he simply missed a joke earlier this day. (He gave an answer in 122) Either I'm skimming over major things or his posts have little content. Though, I find nothing really scummy here.

How is that leaning town and not null?

Already addressed this.

Unsorted

Shadowez – both town (eg. 147, 151) and scum vibes (eg. 150 if I consider 151 townish, or 89).

What's scummy about 89?

Tammy – hmmm... I consider this 5 and her similar posts jokes but eg. the vote in 78 was WTF. I don't know, maybe her later posts will help me in my reads.

Riabi – too little content.

Lean scum

Elias – feel free to call me an idiot but I think he's insincere at scumhunting. Even using the word insincere in 55 confirms my feelings. Plus, why does he sheep Kitty with his vote for me if he has scumreads on others? This 190 answer seems to be insufficient.[/quote]
Nothing to say about any of this

Probably scum

Rack – a couple of WTFs, like 37, 213. Talking about his previous games with Tammy and not providing anything about them. After that, this vote: 79 (what's the case against Kitty?) and this vote: 96. I think he's simply jumping on random wagons without having any sort of cases.

37 isn't so bad, and 213 was simply an honest mistake.

FlamesAndNumbers – Huh? In 48 he told that they had been joking (with Tammy) yet he responds to Implosion's 39 "I love when people give serious votes but give no reasoning at all." (Though, 2 posts later he suggested us to ignore that quote.) 66 is weak, post 92 is weak as well (tunnelling?). Post 67 and 75 contradicts each other more or less. Having read on, I realized that he had been unable to decide whether protect or attack Rack. 149 is a quotewall with little-to-none additional thoughts.

But, 39 was a serious vote. 149 was him showing that he's changing his mind. I don't like it for separate reasons.

Note: I don't think that Rack and Flames are scums together (after I ISO-ed both of them). So, either my reads are flawed or I'm wrong about my previous conclusion.

Why not?

I think I'm starting to get more of a townread on Anen.
Pre-edit:

Oh that went over your head. I was just lol inserting a half of a greys quote, but messed it up royally because I forgot half of it.

???

She was saying that what she said earlier was supposed to be a reference to some quote.

Aneninen: He has a slow start, but I think that might just his playstyle. There's something kind of awkward about their posts, but that's not necessarily due to scumminess. There's something I don't quite like about their read list, but can't quite figure out what it is. I'm not sure how to read him.

Sometimes I have enough time for contentful posts, sometimes nothing. Sometimes I read without posting (mostly from mobile). Sometimes I'm away for a while due to work or other things. Maybe thatswhy I'm unpredictable: sometimes I react almost instantly, sometimes I bring up posts which are older than a coelacanth. Does this explain anything for you?

Not really.

I do think I'm getting to understand you a bit better though.

[Aneninen]

So many things to answer...

Chaoslord – because his list seems to be genuine, not a simple copy/paste of another list or of the current VC. But, we need more posts!

Overall that looks more null to me.

My read is a mixture of intuition and meta.

...Still, she might be an expert-scum who tries starting cases (...) but not too likely (my own quote has been edited by me).

What do you mean by "expert-scum who tries starting cases"?

I read on the Wiki that scums rarely launch new cases, they mostly join existing ones. Though it's possible that article on the Wiki is outdated.

What's scummy about 89?

"Have we ended RVS? Some of these votes seem serious, while others still seem like they're joking around."

– As if there were a line between two certain post like "above this: RVS – below this: real votes". That two sentences sounded like an "I want to find an excuse for my vote if you find my arguments invalid" in my mind...

"I don't like the fact that Flames had such a large wagon so quick in RVS."

– Large wagon? With 2 names? WTF? Rack's wagon was just as large. If I count Elias' vote in 88 Rack had 3 votes, Flame had 1!
His vote for Phok seems to be a semi-RVS (the case before it is not a well-built one in my opinion) – though, I may be wrong about this one.

But, 39 was a serious vote. 149 was him showing that he's changing his mind.

I don't like it for separate reasons.

I'm interested in your explanation about the underlined part.

Note: I don't think that Rack and Flames are scums together (after I ISO-ed both of them). So, either my reads are flawed or I'm wrong about my previous conclusion.

Why not?

It's about Flames' vote on Rack. As far as I can remember, so far Rack's had the longest wagon. If both of them were scum, such a hard-bussing on Day1 would be a bad gameplay, in my opinion.
That'swhy I said that either one of my scumreads – {Flames, Rack} – is wrong or my logic about the fact that they can't be scum together is wrong.

[tman2nd]

I like most of those answers.

...Still, she might be an expert-scum who tries starting cases (...) but not too likely (my own quote has been edited by me).

What do you mean by "expert-scum who tries starting cases"?

I read on the Wiki that scums rarely launch new cases, they mostly join existing ones. Though it's possible that article on the Wiki is outdated.

I see. I think that Mala is the kind of player where that doesn't apply.

But, 39 was a serious vote. 149 was him showing that he's changing his mind.

I don't like it for separate reasons.

I'm interested in your explanation about the underlined part.

I'm referring to what I talked about in my reads post.

Note: I don't think that Rack and Flames are scums together (after I ISO-ed both of them). So, either my reads are flawed or I'm wrong about my previous conclusion.

Why not?

It's about Flames' vote on Rack. As far as I can remember, so far Rack's had the longest wagon. If both of them were scum, such a hard-bussing on Day1 would be a bad gameplay, in my opinion.
That'swhy I said that either one of my scumreads – {Flames, Rack} – is wrong or my logic about the fact that they can't be scum together is wrong.

It looks to me like Flames thought that pushing phok wasn't viable anymore. I'd also be surprised if there isn't at least one scum on the wagon regardless of what Rack's alignment is.

I am thinking Flames is a better lynch than Rack.
VOTE: Flames

~ Tag fixed.

[tman2nd]

@Mod

Could you fix the quote tags?

~ Done.

[Tammy]

mod - I am v/la until Tuesday August 26th

My flight is delayed joy of all joys. Give me a minute to get situated and then I'll try to actually catch up.

Though anenenin my vote on malakittens was mostly a joke. I did suspect her a little bit but I didn't actually think she was confessing.

Okay I need to find my glasses and a place to sit down AND MAYBD A DRINK and then I'll be back

[Malakittens]

Yeah I can't strip a quote wall on a phone.
@aenm:

My fail making fun of a quote:

Spoiler:

“At some point, you have to make a decision. Boundaries don't keep other people out. They fence you in. Life is messy. That's how we're made. So, you can waste your lives drawing lines. Or you can live your life crossing them. But there are some lines... that are way too dangerous to cross.”[/quote]

Aww Tammy

[Tammy]

Okay so Chicago does not have free wifi. This will take longer than I thought

[Tammy]

Oh if my flight has wifi that will be cool!

[Tammy]

Anenenin is probstown. Post 189 made me laugh.

[Tammy]

Tman - why did you choose ananda ins realist to break up and tackle?

Mala is reading more town to me. I'm not sure what the little twinge in the back of my neck means though.

Still think that implosion is town.

Agar, anenenin and phok are other town reads of varying degrees.

I've been thinking about rack though. I don't really prescribe to the wagon rose too fast belief though. My gut says something feels off, my head says racks fine. The itch in my gut could just be the theatrical type tone I thought I saw earlier. I have no known experience with him to know what his style is. I don't mind the alt though, my homesite plays 95% of our games behind alts so.

I'm really not sure on anyone else as no one else has made much of an impression. Oh that's a lie, I like shadowez a bit.

Not sure on scum reads though. If my flight, which apparently is more delayed than originally thought, has in flight wifi I can get on my iPad, but trying to read on the phone blows. I'm going cross eyed.

UNVOTE:

Not sure where I want to put it though so I'll come back to it later.

Also I'm going hipster and NOT putting out a read list :p

[Flames682]

This is a good point, but why would he defend him against the lynch so early in the game? There would be plenty of time to defend him against the lynch to earn towncred later on, not to mention the fact that this rack wagon could dissolve at any point.

I literally said why in the very post you quoted.

Rack apparently has no intention of being of use here. That's dumb.
Aneninen seems up the same boat.

I don't like the Rack case primarily because he's an alt, and alts are generally an awkward account to interact with because they often don't want to give off any possible tells as to who their main is. The case to me reads as "Rack is acting generally strange and awkward," and not something like "Rack did something super scummy."

Remember how I speculated Flames was defending Rack to get towncred? Look at this 180. If that's a bus, that's the worst bus in the history of busses. Like "Holy shit my partner is getting lynched, I must vote now!"

So you say you don't like the case on rack, but then say that I'm bussing him?

[tman2nd]

Tman - why did you choose ananda ins realist to break up and tackle?

I thought there was something off about it, so I took a closer look.

This is a good point, but why would he defend him against the lynch so early in the game? There would be plenty of time to defend him against the lynch to earn towncred later on, not to mention the fact that this rack wagon could dissolve at any point.

I literally said why in the very post you quoted.

Rack apparently has no intention of being of use here. That's dumb.
Aneninen seems up the same boat.

I don't like the Rack case primarily because he's an alt, and alts are generally an awkward account to interact with because they often don't want to give off any possible tells as to who their main is. The case to me reads as "Rack is acting generally strange and awkward," and not something like "Rack did something super scummy."

Remember how I speculated Flames was defending Rack to get towncred? Look at this 180. If that's a bus, that's the worst bus in the history of busses. Like "Holy shit my partner is getting lynched, I must vote now!"

So you say you don't like the case on rack, but then say that I'm bussing him?

Notice the word "if".

[shaddowez]

I'm currently not a fan of implosion's play style right now, but I'm trying to figure out if it's scummy or just him seeming like an ass to me.

What's scummy about 89?

"Have we ended RVS? Some of these votes seem serious, while others still seem like they're joking around."

– As if there were a line between two certain post like "above this: RVS – below this: real votes". That two sentences sounded like an "I want to find an excuse for my vote if you find my arguments invalid" in my mind...

"I don't like the fact that Flames

had

such a large wagon so quick in RVS."

– Large wagon? With 2 names? WTF? Rack's wagon was just as large. If I count Elias' vote in 88 Rack had 3 votes, Flame had 1!

Bolded above - had, not has. Flames got up to 4 votes in RVS in no time, which is what I was commenting on.

Chaos

- you still have not posted your reason for your Rack vote or explained in your "next post", and that was coming up on 24 hours ago.

Elias

- In Post #174 after you sheeped Mala, you say your scum reads remained the same (Phok, Rack, and Implosion). You also mention that you wanted a straight answer from Mala, but accepted "gut and ~reasons~". You defend your vote on Aneninen by saying you wanted him to post more, which has, and in fact you're having discussion directly with him. What is your reasoning for keeping your vote on him at this point?

Phok

- Where'd you go?

Had a bit of an off vibe on tman initially, but I'm liking his last couple of posts.

[phokdapolees]

Prod dodge, will make real post tomorrow

[AGar]

This is a good point, but why would he defend him against the lynch so early in the game? There would be plenty of time to defend him against the lynch to earn towncred later on, not to mention the fact that this rack wagon could dissolve at any point.

I literally said why in the very post you quoted.

Rack apparently has no intention of being of use here. That's dumb.
Aneninen seems up the same boat.

I don't like the Rack case primarily because he's an alt, and alts are generally an awkward account to interact with because they often don't want to give off any possible tells as to who their main is. The case to me reads as "Rack is acting generally strange and awkward," and not something like "Rack did something super scummy."

Remember how I speculated Flames was defending Rack to get towncred? Look at this 180. If that's a bus, that's the worst bus in the history of busses. Like "Holy shit my partner is getting lynched, I must vote now!"

So you say you don't like the case on rack, but then say that I'm bussing him?

Reading is tech. I don't think you're bussing him at all. I think you tried to defend him early on for cheap townpoints, saw a burgeoning wagon and decided to eschew the earlier strategy and hop on because lolmislynch.

[tman2nd]

Aren't there a lot of other things Flames needs to respond to?

[Aneninen]

"I don't like the fact that Flames

had

such a large wagon so quick in RVS."

– Large wagon? With 2 names? WTF? Rack's wagon was just as large. If I count Elias' vote in 88 Rack had 3 votes, Flame had 1!

Bolded above - had, not has. Flames got up to 4 votes in RVS in no time, which is what I was commenting on.

I see. You must have meant the first page. That sentence is a null then. What is more, a 4-player-wagon in RVS is strange indeed. I don't know what it means but maybe you're right and we should remember that fact later.

[chaoslord54]

Okay these are my cases for Malakittens and for Rack. Let's start off with the easier one, Rack.

Reasons for finding Rack scummy

The biggest reason is that although I do find that Malakittens leans scum, much like Rack does, his evidence is very vague and shallow. He also refuses to give much evidence, instead of taking the time to really address anyone's concerns he instead asks Aneninen how to pronounce their name and I just feel that they come off as scum. If Rack isn't scum then he at least is definitely a OMGUS town.

So now

reasons for finding Malakittens scummy

So I find Malakittens scummy for many reasons. For starters, her way of play comes off as someone trying to be trolly but instead of seeing is as being trolly I see it as scum trying to mess around with cases and forcing town to lose focus on what they are trying to do. Also, she ignores most questions thrown at her like in [post]164[/b] and her switch from wanting to vote Rack to jumping off of Rack's wagon seems to sudden and her explanations are short and feel like excuses more then reasons also [post]193[/b] and [post]195[/b] are scummy to me because these do not seem like good reasons to assume that Rack is instantly town. Also he case against Aneninen in [post]163[/b] is shallow and OMGUS. Also she seems to keep jumping between Aneninen and Implosions and does not seem to explain herself very well.

With this all being said I'm switching my vote

Vote:Malakittens

for now because I feel out of the two, it's better to get rid of her now and take down Rack tomorrow.

[SleepyKrew]

.