I'll vote whoever my townreads are on as a compromise tomorrow-ish. But I'm not particularly motivated to do anything right now, and my vote is already on scum.
@ETL- Sorry I didn't get to this earlier. I was running around town to procure cannolis for a 13-year-old's birthday tomorrow.
↑ Guilty Gunsmith wrote:
-
We wanted to lynch TSO
From what I can tell, your main issue was that AP called it a "policy lynch" and that he was scumreading TSO by "PoE". So, let me ask you honestly - do you think these are really the only reasons we were voting him? You call it a "miscommunication" but still hold that we must be scum because it was actually NOT a miscommunication but "policy lynching and PoE to avoid responsibility for the lynch"?
I don't think you were policy lynching tso. I think you were trying to lynch tso for bad reasons, and AP abused the situation so that if the lynch went through, you would be able to deny responsibility for the lynch.
↑ Guilty Gunsmith wrote:I want you to go find any scum game - or any game at all for that matter - of mine where I used this logic to get through D1. Same for AP. <<< It doesn't exist. You know why? Because those are pretty clearly not the reasons we were actually scumreading him. Like, I posted exactly why I thought he was scum but you're ignoring that in order to pick out the reasoning that you think makes your case stronger while disregarding all the evidence. You know what that's called, right?
There are very few setups in which scum have to target specific players in order to win the game.
Link your case on TSO scum please. I was gonna hunt it down and check my memory, but...
↑ Guilty Gunsmith wrote:
We're scumreading you.
No... for real... you spent several paragraphs outlining how this is actually a scum tell. :insertareyoufuckingshittingmefacehere: I'm not sure what you expected when you misrep the entire reason we were pushing TSO in the first place. Jingle comes in and asks me something stupid about gaslighting and I go "????" Then you make up this elaborate scheme about how my plan was simply to make TSO crazy or make him feel bad or something. I go even more "?????" and wonder where you're coming up with this garbage and why you're defending someone who, at that time, I was nearly positive was scum. Of course my first thought is going to be that you might be scum, and you have brilliantly found a way to turn logical scumhunting into a scumtell. I mean this is really beyond belief.
You'll recall several instances where I have townread you for scumreading me. The indicative thing here is not that you're saying I'm scum, it's because you're saying I'm scum
for no reason
. Did you call me scum for chainsawing? No. What you did was say I wasn't town, then announce I was scum. Then you warned anti about how manipulative I am so that any reach out would come across as buddying, and supported stawffy's ridiculous idea of Jingle being 'afraid' to post. Your case on us has been all smoke and paranoia, and even though you've scumread me plenty of other times, you've always presented a case and tried to convince people.
↑ Guilty Gunsmith wrote: I think you're being manipulative and you don't think I should be scumreading you for that.
Your argument against this was "but I'm manipulative as town and I told you that!!" Do you honestly think that I am unable to tell the difference between the kind of manipulation that benefits town in terms of clarifying your reads and the kind of manipulation that is meant to change people's perception of your own slot? There's a difference between manipulating your scum reads to make them trip up, and manipulating people to town read you and vote the way you want them to. I know that you can see the very big difference in motivation there.
You either cannot tell the difference between my town and scum manipulations (possible) or you are purposefully obfuscating the two (likely). My motivation here is lynching scum. I will use any tool at my disposal, because doing otherwise would be fucking stupid. FFS, 'making a case' is a method for manipulating other townies into doing what you want! You're painting it like it should be a massive discredit, when it's really quite routine and I'm being completely straightforward about it.
↑ Guilty Gunsmith wrote:You ARE buddying Heartless. You ARE trying to polarize us away from what was becoming a very solid town bloc. You even admitted to doing so! So, for like, just one second, can you put yourself in my shoes and see how I might think that is shady as fuck?[/*]
Of course I am! I can't just give up on valid discourse with the second most charismatic player in the game, not to mention the strongest town-aligned gut in the same slot as a solid reasoner. Their input is invaluable. And you needed to be out of the townbloc because
scum in the townbloc means town loses
.
↑ Guilty Gunsmith wrote: I didn't defend you against Swifty's lurker case.
I'm sorry? I don't really know why this is a reason we're scum, other than the fact that I didn't read a word of her case on you. I mean, I've been pretty busy and trying to pull threads where I can here. I focused on TSO, because Anti was MIA. Then I focused on Anti. And now I'm focusing on you. It looks to me that you think we should have come to your rescue, and I don't really understand that. You say that we're scum because we DIDN'T knock her down for attacking our own scumread
. I just really don't understand this at all because this isn't even a scumtell in the slightest. I mean, I bet you 99% of all town don't question when someone is pushing their own favored lynch with bad reasons.
I mean, if you really wanted me to notice it or wanted some commentary on it or wanted to know why I didn't say anything about it, all you had to do was point it out and ask me. But you didn't. You just attacked me for not seeing it and saying something on your behalf
. You know this makes no sense and you know that I hyperfocus on people until I get a good set of solid reads.
It's not that you didn't defend us, it's that you gave the argument your tacit support by bringing up garbage meta in favor of it.
↑ Guilty Gunsmith wrote:I'm "fucking up" on my meta read of you.
I really don't even know what you're referring to, other than "hey look he did this in reboot!" and as I already pointed out, I mentioned it as a point of interest. The fact of the matter is that this conversation DID occur there. I didn't even make the conclusion that you were doing this here. I caught something Swifty said about Jingle "being afraid to post" which made me think of that. How can you possibly see that in any other way? I just don't understand. I am townreading her, and it is something she noticed. If she noticed it, AND its something you have already done in the past as scum, there is a logical connection there, and again, you are turning valid scumhunting into scumtells which makes zero sense to me. If you were town, I'd expect you to at least question yourself before posting some of the nonsense that you have. But to actually address the point here, that is the only "meta" item I've mentioned, I didn't qualify it, nor compare it to your play her, nor push it any further than making mention of it. So, no, I'm not "fucking up" on your meta. I'm not even talking about your meta.
What happened in reboot was that Jingle stopped posting because he didn't want to fuck up my crazy gambits and verbal sparring at crucial moments lategame. There is obviously and clearly no parallel with this game. You know what else happened in reboot? Periods where I didn't post because of meatworld obligations/ health issues and Jingle didn't pick up the slack. Just like in every game we've played, scum and town.
Further, I'm too tired to cite but you keep saying things like "town sthar doesn't do this" and "this isn't sthar's towngame." Those seem to be meta arguments, even though you've yet to actually cite anything. I know I'm town, and I know I've played like this as town before, and I know that you know that. So clearly you're not using the meta to the best of your ability. Therefore...
That's all I've got time for tonight. I might hit the other points tomorrow after birthday pizza and cannoli.
One last thing though:
↑ Guilty Gunsmith wrote:Seriously Sthar? I have never known you to be afraid of either of us as either alignment, nor have I ever known you to spread so much propaganda about either of our scum games. It really looks to me like you are
trying
to instill fear in others to make them vote for us. You are doing everything BUT scumhunt us.
1. When was the last time I encountered either of you as scum?
2. I don't really fear
anything
external. But I have a great deal of respect for both your town and scum games. I feel like I've been very clear on this point, now and previously.
3. I am obviously trying to motivate everyone into voting you. It is my firm belief that killing you will neuter the scumteam quite effectively.
4. I strongly disagree wrt scumhunting. Your process was pretty clear from a scum-mindset. If I'm wrong, someone other than you should be able to engage and explain that.
