Mini 1602: Game Over


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Post Post #400 (ISO) » Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:04 am

Post by SleepyKrew »

VC 1.15


neil1113
(4) - AGar, phokdapolees, chaoslord54, shaddowez
tman2nd
(2) - Oso, Malakittens
rack
(2) - neil1113, Elias_the_thief

Not Voting
(5) - Tammy, tman2nd, rack, Aneninen, implosion

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 deadline will hit in: (expired on 2014-08-31 16:48:15)

neil1113 is V/LA for a few days. I'm going to try to get some more concrete dates.
Last edited by SleepyKrew on Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:13 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post Post #401 (ISO) » Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:05 am

Post by Oso »

Tammy wrote:I'll have a proper post when I get home but I'm a bit eh on
if there should be a cc. I think I'd like them to keep their mouth shut.

...

This, the bold, so much, please don't CC if you are a real cop.
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Post Post #402 (ISO) » Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:05 am

Post by implosion »

I have an idea.

@Everyone: if you are counterclaiming Neil, DO IT in your very next post!

If there is no counterclaim, we should assume that Neil's claim is real and disband his wagon. (After all, if his claim is fake we'll find that out soon.) If you've posted anything without counterclaiming start posting your other scumreads as soon as you can.

UNVOTE: – I'm willing to revote him if anyone counterclaims but now I'm scared of a derphammer on Neil.

also no. this is wrong. 1, if neil is scum, this is exactly what he wants, 2, a counterclaim doesn't actually mean a damn thing.
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Post Post #403 (ISO) » Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:05 am

Post by Malakittens »

Oh screw you SK.

You know that I need a certain number of page top steals so i can get my free dayvig
No matter how high the stakes, sooner or later you're just gonna have to go with your gut.
And maybe, just maybe, that'll take you right where you were supposed to be.


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Post Post #404 (ISO) » Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:07 am

Post by implosion »

Oso, what do you think of neil?
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Post Post #405 (ISO) » Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:09 am

Post by Oso »

Not much. I'll elaborate as soon as I remember how to do quote tags and such here. I'm a bit rusty.

Short answer, I don't believe him.
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Post Post #406 (ISO) » Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:09 am

Post by phokdapolees »

Just saw scum try to fakeclaim cop on D1 in my last game in an attempt to "explain their actions", so not buying this
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Post Post #407 (ISO) » Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:18 am

Post by implosion »

So I just wrote out a big stupid conditional probability thing and then realized I have no idea how often scum would claim cop in this situation.

Meh.
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Post Post #408 (ISO) » Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:21 am

Post by Malakittens »

*sigh*

Why mala why didn't you hammer when you had the chance too now you won't be able too
No matter how high the stakes, sooner or later you're just gonna have to go with your gut.
And maybe, just maybe, that'll take you right where you were supposed to be.


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Post Post #409 (ISO) » Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:30 am

Post by implosion »

Incidentally, Malakittens is in fact town.
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Post Post #410 (ISO) » Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:33 am

Post by Oso »

Actually, I don't need a whole lot of quote tags.

Oddly enough, if Flames were still in the spot and playing like he had been, I'd feel a whole lot better about the claim. ISO Flames and just look at the whole flow of his posts. It is what I would call 'not quite under the radar' play. Something that both scum and PRs have a tendency to do in my experience. He's definitely participating (not lurking) but not really going out on any limbs in my opinion. Staying right there in the sweet spot where you are not likely to get lynched if town or scum but also not so prominent you are likely to get a eat the NK either.

Upon his entrance, Niel just blows that out of the water. Could be a difference in playstyle I guess, but the whole tone of Neil is just off for a cop in my experience. The post with the softclaim:
neil1113 wrote:Ahem, Tammy you just put me at L-1...

I just realized I was at L-2. Are you that confident I am scum? I would have had a slight scum read myself on Flames, but not more than you or Rack. Especially not enough to put him at L-1. Then again, I'm still on page 6 so that could change.
****If he ran his slot up as scummy as possible and replaced out again****
, I'm going to be fucking furious. This is why he's already blacklisted by several people here. And honestly, depending on my finished conclusion after my read through, if that's what he did, I'm going to call for a mod kill. That's against our town win-condition, and in the end, it fucks the town really badly considering our role.


The bold, that in no way, shape or form is compatible with a cop claim. It is compatible with a town who goes "Aw shit...I screwed up, I'm outa' here" and also with a scum who goes "Aw shit...I screwed up, I'm outa' here" It does not go with a cop. D1 that is a solid claim even if fake. If there is a real cop, no way in hell they CC. So if flames was a cop, he didn't flake out of fear of a lynch.

Niel is scum.
My Uncle always use'ta say, 'You can't get no blood from a turnip.' .... He'd say the same thing about gettin' it from a stone, too.
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Post Post #411 (ISO) » Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:34 am

Post by Oso »

Add on edit

I realize Flames was under heavy pressure when he replaced out so he didn't manage to stay in the 'sweet spot' I mentioned. But the impression I got from his posts was that was where he was trying to stay.
My Uncle always use'ta say, 'You can't get no blood from a turnip.' .... He'd say the same thing about gettin' it from a stone, too.
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Post Post #412 (ISO) » Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:55 am

Post by chaoslord54 »

Guys we should not believe him. Of course he's going to try and claim a role like that when he's about to be lynched. He knows that it could keep him alive for a while and if the real cop CCs him then scum know who to take out on the first night. I think we should take the risk, lynch him, and figure it out tomorrow.
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Post Post #413 (ISO) » Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:10 am

Post by Malakittens »

chaoslord54 wrote:Guys we should not believe him. Of course he's going to try and claim a role like that when he's about to be lynched. He knows that it could keep him alive for a while and if the real cop CCs him then scum know who to take out on the first night. I think we should take the risk, lynch him, and figure it out tomorrow.


aaaaand this is scum when neil flips scum. btw!
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Post Post #414 (ISO) » Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:13 am

Post by Oso »

Mala, what if Niel is exactly what he claims? Is chaos still scum?
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Post Post #415 (ISO) » Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:20 am

Post by Malakittens »

Oso wrote:Mala, what if Niel is exactly what he claims? Is chaos still scum?


Then I will reevalute with new information at hand. I'm pretty sure that Neil isn't town and isn't a cop, but that's just me.

He ignored the question I asked him; he got defensive; dropped some scum tells and is scum.
No matter how high the stakes, sooner or later you're just gonna have to go with your gut.
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Post Post #416 (ISO) » Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:41 am

Post by Tammy »

I pretty much want to call bullshit on his v/la as well.

Speaking of which, I realize I just came off of v/la but my mother is coming in town tomorrow for my birthday and my activity will still be spotty until Sunday. I will not be officially v/la, and you might not even know the difference, especially with me just coming off v/la :P

I don't have time to look into how often neil fake claims, but I remember in Tit for Tat when he replaced in and jokingly claimed cop (it was referring to the flavor, he wasn't actually fake claiming), midnight asked him if he was going to fake claim in every game they played in together. I don't have the time to hunt that down though. His claim just doesn't make sense. Implosion is right about the game we were in, it was swag town, and scum claimed cop day one and a search through normals at that time had shown that the straight up "cop" role had fallen out of favor. I think the investigative role that game was a tracker, which was a bit more popular. I don't know sleepy's tastes enough to know if he'd use a regular cop for the investigative role though, and that game Implosion and I were in was about a year ago?
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Post Post #417 (ISO) » Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:44 am

Post by Oso »

I can dig that.

Reason I asked though is that you tied chaos' alignment to Neil's if Neil is scum. That post you quoted
chaoslord54 wrote:Guys we should not believe him. Of course he's going to try and claim a role like that when he's about to be lynched. He knows that it could keep him alive for a while and if the real cop CCs him then scum know who to take out on the first night. I think we should take the risk, lynch him, and figure it out tomorrow.

Look pretty straightforward to me. Chaos is already voting Neil, stating we should not believe the claim and giving some fairly solid reasons why he believes his(Neil's) claim might be false, give a damn good reason why no should counter-claim if they can, then finishes it off by saying he thinks the risk is worth it.

I personally don't see it as on the face of it, those look like pretty good town reasons to go ahead with the lynch. Wondering what you see that I don't especially since the other person who has posted in the thread about this that is still on Neil's wagon is Phok. With just about one of the worst bullshit reasons to stay on a wagon I have ever seen.
phokdapolees wrote:Just saw scum try to fakeclaim cop on D1 in my last game in an attempt to "explain their actions", so not buying this

Why single Chaos out and not mention Phok?
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Post Post #418 (ISO) » Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:45 am

Post by Oso »

EBWOP, my last post is directed at Mala's, not at Tammy's post
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Post Post #419 (ISO) » Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:53 am

Post by Malakittens »

I WANT THE HAMMER.
No matter how high the stakes, sooner or later you're just gonna have to go with your gut.
And maybe, just maybe, that'll take you right where you were supposed to be.


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Post Post #420 (ISO) » Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:03 am

Post by Tammy »

neil1113 wrote:
P.Edit: You bastard. :/ I am scum reading you, and it looks like you're scummy as hell behavior is going to lead to a vote. Now you've successfully invalidated anything I say from here on out, to make it look like it's OMGUS. Damn you.


This is the post I was talking about. He made his first post which looked rather scummy, and now I just got what he meant by I was bussing a wagon in my first post. I was the second vote on Malakittens, lol, when I started my post Elias hadn't posted yet and I was always going to vote Malakittens. I've been trying to figure out what the hell he was talking about. Actually his reads don't make any sense with his third quote in this very post. He's using things that aren't even a glimmer in a scum tells eye to claim people are scummy. For instance, he said that flames was scummy for being the fourth vote on someone before they posted. ERM yeah okay bud.

Anyway, I just don't see a cop making this post to me. He made a scummy post and I voted him. He had already given me scum points for playing mafia, so I don't get the response at all. What is also amusing is he's saying that he's leaning towards voting me when he's only read three pages of the game, which is increasing my suspicion that he designated me as a scum read when he started reading the game. But why would you make this post if you were a cop? If you're a cop, and you have this strong suspicion I'm scum, even if you're worried your suspicion is going to get taken less seriously because it could be perceived as omgus, you're a cop. You get to investigate me. Hurrah. I just don't get it and it feels rather fake.


neil1113 wrote:Ahem, Tammy you just put me at L-1...

I just realized I was at L-2.
Are you that confident I am scum
? I would have had a slight scum read myself on Flames, but not more than you or Rack. Especially not enough to put him at L-1. Then again, I'm still on page 6 so that could change. If he ran his slot up as scummy as possible and replaced out again, I'm going to be fucking furious. This is why he's already blacklisted by several people here. And honestly, depending on my finished conclusion after my read through, if that's what he did, I'm going to call for a mod kill. That's against our town win-condition, and in the end, it fucks the town really badly considering our role.


Why didn't he claim here? I didn't realize that he was at L-2 when I voted, but for all he knew I was going to keep my vote there. And seriously he's a cop who's going to call for a modkill if flames looks like he looked scummy on purpose? Seriously?

Also the bolded strikes me as off with his reads. If I were the scum he's pushing me as, I wouldn't be reading him. I would be fake reading him. And if he actually thought my RVS vote on Malakittens was opportunistic, why not think this is opportunistic? (I don't like this tell tooooo much, it's basically the "you're talking to me like I'm town" tell, and a lot of the time when I see this used it's against town as town aren't ever sure. It just reads off to me because I'm his biggest "suspect" at this point. We've never played together before, I think the only experience we have is him replacing into a slot into a game after I'd replaced out, so it can't be familiarity talking. IDK feels off.)

neil1113 wrote:Tell you what Tammy, when you want to actually read my posts as I read through, then we can discuss it. Until then, keep your mouth shut. Mis-repesenting someone doesn't suit you well and further proves your scumminess. Consider this a free newbie mafia tip.


This is out of sorts as well. I *did* read his posts, I just only read the parts to do with me and I only responded to the parts to do with me. He could have easily interacted with that. I hate the tone of this post. He doesn't point out what I "misrepresented"; he doesn't interact with any of my comments on his read of me, and I really don't know what he means by the "free newbie mafia tip." Is he saying he's a newbie and is telling me he is? Or is someone whose reputation is a fake claimer, trying to give me a tip? IDK, but still feels odd. Oh I remember my initial point. If he is saying he's giving me a newbie tip, implying that I don't know what I'm doing and he does, then why the hell soft claim if he's a cop? Doesn't make sense.
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Post Post #421 (ISO) » Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:08 am

Post by Tammy »

chaoslord54 wrote:Neil, address this questions and I will unvote you for now depending on your answer.

In How did you not already know your alignment? Also why are you ignoring Tammy's question to you in ?

Also, how are you not trying to take eyes away from you? Tammy points out flaws in your case against her and instead of properly addressing what she says you bring up more points and then blow her off by saying she's not reading after she said she is reading your case against her. Then you ignore her questions towards you. That comes off to me as someone trying to draw eyes away from them and onto someone else.


This pinged the other day when I read it, but I don't remember why and it's not as bad as I thought it was when I made a mental note to go back to it.
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Post Post #422 (ISO) » Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:41 am

Post by Tammy »

Okay Neil is most probably scum. I really need to catch up reading in this game so I can't keep looking through Neil's games, but I've found no instance of him doing the + or - system in any of his games before. Well, I only looked to see how he typically caught up in games. In the last two town games I saw him replace into, he read the entire game where he was and gave his thoughts and reads, and the way he read the thread didn't seem so pedestrian. There was one scum game he replaced into where he did a page by page commentary as he caught up, but he spoiled each page into one post.

Anyway, it's not perfect meta, but I was hoping to see if this was his normal play.
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Post Post #423 (ISO) » Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:55 am

Post by Aneninen »

I have just done a similar examination as Tammy. I'm not allowed to provide any details (site rules) but I'm almost sure that he's faking.

VOTE: Neil

By the way, there's one thing I don't understand. Many of you are scumreading him without voting for him. Am I the idiot becuase I vote for the one whom I think scum and want to lynch or is there something strange going on?
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Post Post #424 (ISO) » Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:56 am

Post by tman2nd »

I'm going to hop back onto the wagon if nobody has any objections to him being at L-1.
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